Audi's A5 gets in shape for 6-Series scrap

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Source: Auto Express

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Only last week (Newsweek, Issue 946), Auto Express brought you exclusive pictures of the German firm's new MINI-rivalling A1 - and now the company has given the world its first official glimpse of the A5 coupé.

Counting down to the launch of the new BMW 6-Series rival at the Geneva Motor Show in March, Audi has launched its own A5 microsite. This will be updated with teaser images and information leading up to the big unveiling, and is designed to drum up interest in the newcomer.

Click on to the website, and you are treated to a Google Earth-style graphic that slowly zooms in on the world. It then homes in on Audi's headquarters in Ingolstadt, Germany, where an overhead image of the new car on a display stand appears.

No other details of the new two-door are given away, other than the simple statement: "A new design. A completely new construction." This doesn't reveal much, but does hint at the possible adoption of a similar composite aluminium body assembly to the R8 supercar.

You can also get a glimpse of the official A5 badge online, which confirms the name of the new model in public for the first time.

Sitting in Audi's sporting line-up between the TT coupé and R8, the new front-engined machine will be available with a range of diesel and petrol engines. Range-toppers will get a high-revving naturally aspirated V8. However, an even hotter version is also expected later, badged RS5. This will take on both BMW's M3 and M6 and break new ground for performance Audis.

Unlike most other models in the firm's range, the A5 is unlikely to be offered with anything but the company's famous all-wheel-drive quattro drive*train. Buyers will also have the choice of a conventional three-pedal or automated twin-clutch manual transmission, as well as a slick-shifting Tiptronic automatic.

Offering seating for four, the A5 will get a similar cabin to the A6. The emphasis will be on style, with a central MMI controller for the in-car entertainment and climate control keeping the dashboard clutter free.

When the new car goes on sale in the UK later this year, it will be offered only as a coupé. However, as it will rival the entire 6-Series range, there are also plans for a drop-top to be added to the line-up in the future. This is likely to use a fabric hood rather than a folding metal roof and will offer the most luxurious top-down motoring of any Audi model.

You can see the A5 for yourself by logging on to the special website at http://microsites.audi.com/audia5/and can register to receive further updates of the car's progress. The site also allows you to enter a competition to win one of 555 special 1:43 scale models of the new coupé after it has been unveiled.
 
the a5 is sized between the a4 and a6 so not a propper 6 series rival. There will be a S-version available from debut of the normal models which is cool as it means that e will no longer have to wait until the end of a models life before audi introduces a RS version, instead they will come much sooner now, a bit like AMG and M.
 
I'd kinda like to see an FR version of this coupe. I know Audi's gonna fit most, if not all, versions with Quattro, but rear-drive would be neat to see.
 
audi might be forced to offer RWD in the next decade as BMW and Mercedes develop more 4WD vehichle to steal quattro sales.
 
If it ends up looking like that, I'd have to say it's a lot better than expected. The grille doesn't bother me, and the entire design has a very good mixture of aggressiveness and the usual Audi cleanliness of lines. It's not nearly as fussy as the R8 or TT, though it does bear more than a little resemblance to the Bentley Conti GT.

I don't see how something would "take on both the M3 and M6", though. The M6, possibly, but the M3 will take a huge effort.
 
I like the look of the car, and I'm interested in seeing how it turns out as a production model, but lets be honest here, it probably won't go beating up the 3-Series coupe any time soon, nor would it be too apt at chasing after the 6-Series either. What I do see is that Audi has found a nice intermediate size in which they can play around just a bit, maybe bat a few balls with the CLK and the upcoming and long-rumored CTS Coupe.

Weight is going to be the big issue, and we will have to find out if Audi has learned to place the engine behind the front axle, not on-top or in-front of it. If I was to buy one, I'd take mine with a 3.6L VR6 and the DSG please, oh, and I'll take the Electric Blue paint job as well.
 
I think thats a continental GT photoshop.

The A5 will not get a 3.6 VR6, according to my sources, but the TT will with 320hp.

The A5 will be using audis next gen modular chassis' or something like that. Anyway new audi's will have less front overhang, and better weight distribution.
 
Is this thing supposed to compete with the 3-series coupe, except without the rear-drive and without the prestige badge?

Doesn't the Toyota Solara already do that?

Save your money Audi - keep putting huge naturally aspirated engines into relatively boring but attractive cars instead. Where's my A3 5.2?
 
Is this thing supposed to compete with the 3-series coupe, except without the rear-drive and without the prestige badge?

Doesn't the Toyota Solara already do that?

Save your money Audi - keep putting huge naturally aspirated engines into relatively boring but attractive cars instead. Where's my A3 5.2?

BMW fanboys always love to say negative things about audi. They are feeling beginning to feel the heat, just like how the BMW boss felt the need to address audi's rising.

Audi is a prestigous badge, and seeing as every other driver in germany and england has a BMW the badge isnt all that special anymore. People on benefits are driving BMW's :lol:

Rear drive? You can keep it, the E46 M3 had trouble getting its power down on UK roads especially when damp or worse. The 4wd audi means you can just point the nose and plant your foot. Damp roundabout? No problem for the 4wd driver ;)

Twisties? Whoops best be light on the gas in your M3, dont want you in a ditch now do we. Dont have that problem in a 4WD car :D

keep putting huge naturally aspirated engines into relatively boring but attractive cars instead. Where's my A3 5.2?

:lol:

Audi A3 biggest engine : 3.2 V6
1 Series biggest engine: 3.0 I6

A4 biggest engine: 4.2 V8
E92 biggest engine: 4.0 V8 (upcoming M3)

A6 biggest engine: 5.2 V10
5er biggest engine: 5.0 V10

A5 biggest engine : 5.2 V10 (speculation, might be a 4.2 or 4.8)
6er biggest engine: 5.0 V10

A8 biggest engine: 6.0 W12
7er biggest engine: 6.0 V12

Q7 Biggest engine: 4.2 V8 (petrol)
X5 biggest engine: 4.8 V8

TT biggest engine: 3.2 V6
Z4 biggest engine: 3.2 I6



So tell me mr, M5 power where is audi keep putting bigger and bigger engines in their cars? Looks like they are on the same wave length as BMW when it comes to sizing their vehicles engines up. ;)
 
Twisties? Whoops best be light on the gas in your M3, dont want you in a ditch now do we. Dont have that problem in a 4WD car :D
Yeah. In an Audi you end up in the same ditch, but at least your facing forward.
Poverty
Audi A3 biggest engine : 3.2 V6
1 Series biggest engine: 3.0 I6
The Audi A3 also weighs 200 kg more than the BMW 130i. Its nice to know that the Audi has more power. Oh, wait...
Poverty
A4 biggest engine: 4.2 V8
E92 biggest engine: 4.0 V8 (upcoming M3)
And if the BMW M3 ends up weighing 1650kg I'll eat my hat.
Poverty
A6 biggest engine: 5.2 V10
5er biggest engine: 5.0 V10
See Audi A3 comment, only switch "A3" with "S6" and "130i" with "M5."
Poverty
A5 biggest engine : 5.2 V10 (speculation, might be a 4.2 or 4.8)
6er biggest engine: 5.0 V10
See above comment.
Povery
A8 biggest engine: 6.0 W12
7er biggest engine: 6.0 V12
I'll give you this one, even if the 7-series is 6 years old.
Poverty
Q7 Biggest engine: 4.2 V8 (petrol)
X5 biggest engine: 4.8 V8
I don't have specs for those, so whatever.
Poverty
TT biggest engine: 3.2 V6
Z4 biggest engine: 3.2 I6
The BMW also has nearly 100 more BHP and weighs 30kg less. Alternatively, it has 15 more BHP and weighs 120kg less. Take your pick.
Now why am I ignoring your point about them having nearly the same size? Because of this:
M5Power
into relatively boring but attractive cars instead
Doug's point was less about the engine size itself than it was that in most cases it is not utilized properly, barring the RS4 and the like. I don't necessarily agree with him, but I understand what he was saying.
 
I think that you take things way to personally. I don't think M5Power meant that as some kind of personal attack on you. It was just his opinion.

.....Audi is a prestigous badge, and seeing as every other driver in germany and england has a BMW the badge isnt all that special anymore. People on benefits are driving BMW's :lol:....

Really, I don't see who would consider a bunch of rebadged VW's with nicer peices better then BMW, maybe in the same class, but not better.

.....Rear drive? You can keep it, the E46 M3 had trouble getting its power down on UK roads especially when damp or worse. The 4wd audi means you can just point the nose and plant your foot. Damp roundabout? No problem for the 4wd driver.... ;)

I think you are really only stating which one is easier to drive, not which one is better or more fun to drive. Trouble getting power down? learn throttle control! Damp Roundabout? Learn to countersteer and have some fun! 👍

.....Twisties? Whoops best be light on the gas in your M3, dont want you in a ditch now do we. Dont have that problem in a 4WD car....

LEARN TO DRIVE!! (rear wheel drive cars at least)

(BTW: where the Beamer slides in to the ditch, your Audi will simply just understeer into the ditch! :lol: )
 
Yeah. In an Audi you end up in the same ditch, but at least your facing forward.

The Audi A3 also weighs 200 kg more than the BMW 130i. Its nice to know that the Audi has more power. Oh, wait...

And if the BMW M3 ends up weighing 1650kg I'll eat my hat.

See Audi A3 comment, only switch "A3" with "S6" and "130i" with "M5."

See above comment.

I'll give you this one, even if the 7-series is 6 years old.

I don't have specs for those, so whatever.

The BMW also has nearly 100 more BHP and weighs 30kg less. Alternatively, it has 15 more BHP and weighs 120kg less. Take your pick.
Now why am I ignoring your point about them having nearly the same size? Because of this:

Doug's point was less about the engine size itself than it was that in most cases it is not utilized properly, barring the RS4 and the like. I don't necessarily agree with him, but I understand what he was saying.


Im gonna number my reply to each of your quotes to save time.

1. Yeah, because its pulling the BMW out of the ditch ;)
2. The 3.2 V6 is to relax in, a hatchback luxury cruiser. If its performance you require get the S3, only weighs a couple tens more KG's than the beemer, yet has a better interior and is a faster car. Similiar price too ;)
3.What good is 420hp and 1550kg in weight if you cant use all that power on public roads due to traction difficulties. BMW's 4wd brothers dont have such problems, no wonder evos and imprezas are the vehicle of choice in the UK for getaway vehicles.
4. S6 is luxurious, M5 doesnt have a interior to match its price tag, and is too hardcore for many. S doesnt compete with M, RS does, and the next RS6 is gonna blow the M5 out of the water.
5. 6 series is a heavy car. The A5 will probably match its weight even with 4wd or be below it.
6. The A8 is no spring chicken either, both the 7er and A8 will be getting replaced at about the same time ;)
7. Q7 wins outright.
8. The highly sprung versions of the TT will change that im sure.

9. BMW might be a benchmark when it comes to performance and driving pleasure, but audi are catching

and the R8, TT, RS4, A6 and Q7 prove that. The next gen chassis' will cement it.

Really, I don't see who would consider a bunch of rebadged VW's with nicer peices better then BMW, maybe in the same class, but not better.

Which audi other than the A3 is a rebadged VW? Your still living in the past.

I think you are really only stating which one is easier to drive, not which one is better or more fun to drive. Trouble getting power down? learn throttle control! Damp Roundabout? Learn to countersteer and have some fun!

LOL throttle control isnt gonna magically make you as fast as a 4WD car. 70% of throttle wont beat 100%.

4WD cars are fun, as are FWD ones, for some reason people just go all ga ga for a RWD car and think theres no comparison due to car magazine authors. I would agree RWD rules the roost, but only the race track.

LEARN TO DRIVE!! (rear wheel drive cars at least)

(BTW: where the Beamer slides in to the ditch, your Audi will simply just understeer into the ditch!

lol learn how to drive a 4wd car and you can understeer, be neutral, or oversteer.
 
BMW fanboys always love to say negative things about audi. They are feeling beginning to feel the heat, just like how the BMW boss felt the need to address audi's rising.

I, um, hate BMW. And I love Audi. So, rationalize that.

So tell me mr, M5 power where is audi keep putting bigger and bigger engines in their cars? Looks like they are on the same wave length as BMW when it comes to sizing their vehicles engines up. ;)

It was a joke, and you missed my point.

Toronado
Doug's point was less about the engine size itself than it was that in most cases it is not utilized properly, barring the RS4 and the like. I don't necessarily agree with him, but I understand what he was saying.

Some time ago, back when the '00-'01 S4 (which people often incorrectly call the first-gen S4) was out, the CEO of Audi was quoted as saying that people think Audi is all about turbocharging and that people perceive Audi as being unable to make large naturally-aspirated engines. So to counter-act that, he stuffed a V8 into the next S4 (which at the time was unprecidented, since Mercedes was using a supercharged six and BMW was running a naturally-aspirated six), and Audi has been doing stuff like that ever since. That was my point. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment about Audi's engine size escalation than a jab. As stated above, I love Audi.
 
BMW fanboys always love to say negative things about audi. They are feeling beginning to feel the heat, just like how the BMW boss felt the need to address audi's rising.

I think I've made it clear in the past that I love my VAG to death, but someone has to point out the possible faults of Audi from time to time. The problem is that the Quad-ringers don't have a stellar track-record when it comes to building outright "sporty" cars, as they nearly end up with a compromise... Comfortable ride, modest sporting ability, middle-road pricing. But that is what Audi does best.

...I don't think in any case that it is about BMW sweating the big stuff. If anything, BMW has most of the market cornered when it comes to sports sedans and coupes, and no matter how hard any company from Germany, Japan, or even America tries, unseating BMW is tough to do. You have to admit that Audi's runs at BMW have been less than stellar over the past few years, and only recently have had anything that is directly competitive with the products, and actually stand a chance to beat the bad-boys from Munich...

With the A5 change people's minds? Maybe. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to make it as good as the 3-series, or whatever it is that this car is supposed to go up against. Weight, power, and the fun-to-drive factors need their respective improvements, and if Audi does their homework like the good boys and girls they should be, we may see an Audi top a BMW without a problem.
 
I also remembered that I forgot to comment on how awesome this "concept" looks, and if they produce it like that it will kick the snot out of the 6-series for that reason alone. Remember, the 6-series is the ugliest car since the Aztek (no, Doug, the B9 Tribeca can't touch either), so this will probably sell like a simile I can't think of at the moment to describe the amount of sales this will get.
 
Anyone who has actually driven any RWD car will realize immediately that while AWD is nice in some situations, it can never touch the dynamics and degree of control you can attain with a RWD vehicle.

And this is coming from someone who drives an AWD car.
 
Remember, the 6-series is the ugliest car since the Aztek (no, Doug, the B9 Tribeca can't touch either),

Two people agree with this: you, and me.

There are people out there who swear the 6-series is attractive.

Truly - is it not the single ugliest thing EVER? It's so bad. Ugh. Words can't even describe it.
 
I would , I think its one of the most beautiful BMWs ever made .

I just can't understand this line of thinking.

It wins three awards:

2005_BMW_6-series_645Ci_rear.jpg

Worst rear-end. Ever.

185936.2-lg.jpg

Worst OEM wheels. Ever.

bmw645ci.jpg

Most ostentatious car. Ever.

The 6-series simply proves that BMW owners just want to show off and be seen while Mercedes owners would rather be classy and have the understated sleeper.
 
The 6-series simply proves that BMW owners just want to show off and be seen while Mercedes owners would rather be classy and have the understated sleeper.


so what your saying is that there is no singal merc owner that bougth his car to show off , and there is no singal BMW owner that bought his car because he like they way it looks ? thats just a silly argument , you can genrlize . If I had teh money I would buy the 6 series because it looks beautiful in my eyes that just my opinion.
 
From the right angle, in the right light, if it is painted the right color, with the right rims, and if you are sort of nearsighted, a 6 series can look kind of handsome. :sly:

No, but seriously, I sort of like how the convertibles look from the back with their tops up; the flying buttresses are cool and with the tiny rear window it looks nice.
 
Im gonna number my reply to each of your quotes to save time.

2. The 3.2 V6 is to relax in, a hatchback luxury cruiser. If its performance you require get the S3, only weighs a couple tens more KG's than the beemer, yet has a better interior and is a faster car. Similiar price too ;)
4. S6 is luxurious, M5 doesnt have a interior to match its price tag, and is too hardcore for many. S doesnt compete with M, RS does, and the next RS6 is gonna blow the M5 out of the water.
5. 6 series is a heavy car. The A5 will probably match its weight even with 4wd or be below it.
7. Q7 wins outright.
8. The highly sprung versions of the TT will change that im sure.
9. BMW might be a benchmark when it comes to performance and driving pleasure, but audi are catching

and the R8, TT, RS4, A6 and Q7 prove that. The next gen chassis' will cement it.


LOL throttle control isnt gonna magically make you as fast as a 4WD car. 70% of throttle wont beat 100%.

4WD cars are fun, as are FWD ones, for some reason people just go all ga ga for a RWD car and think theres no comparison due to car magazine authors. I would agree RWD rules the roost, but only the race track.

lol learn how to drive a 4wd car and you can understeer, be neutral, or oversteer.

You're right, this numbering does make it easier.

2. Faster? I'm assuming you mean 130i vs S3. Not really a fair comparison, as you pointed out, since there isn't a direct 1 rival to an S Audi. But even if that is what you meant (and ignoring the upcoming 135), since when was the S3 faster? It's heavier and while it has 4WD, the 1's the car to beat on the track. I can only see the Audi taking it out on a wet straight.

4. Blow it out of the water? Again, you're basing some "fact" around a single fact: you have a huge bias for Audi. Show me some concrete proof that it will be a better car... what, more power than an M5? Yeah, the RS6 tried that last time. And it still wasn't the better driver's car, even in Plus form.

5. Hey, another guess! Sweet... I'm going to say an M3 will be 1500kg and have 450hp. Just because. And now I'll pretend I heard it through some "BMW insider".

7. Based on...?

8. BMW's will change too. That I'm sure.

9. You do realize the irony here, right? You're arguing that Audi's are less hardcore and outright sporty than BMW, which is to their advantage... but then you go on about how they'll be the dynamic benchmark in the next generation. So won't they lose out on their apparent trump card?

That last little bit has got me laughing. Are you seriously under the impression that any 4WD car suddenly will behave with Evo/STi/GT-R levels of adjustability just because it has 4WD? No, an Audi of the current generation won't allow a driver the decision of under/over -steer or neutrality, it will give them a solid dose of understeer because of the inherent design of the suspension and the drive system, as well as engine placement. And 70% throttle in a BMW will still get it around a turn quicker than a hedge-terrorizing Audi with the driver's foot planted, because "gee, 4WD means I can take on anything!".
_________________

And as with most everyone else in here, I'm not anti-Audi. There's an A6 in the family that I love, but Audis are not the same as BMW's. They will sell to different people, and this push Audi is attempting could backfire. There are a lot of people who are content with Audi's high standards of build quality and solidity, them going after BMW will really only have a chance of working on those who already love BMW, like the enthusiast press. It's a minority Audi is focusing on, they're going to end up in super-niche territory like Mercedes.
 
The 6-series, like all Bangle-era BMWs, is like a girl with a really nicely shaped body...

who's been hit in the face with a lorry.

I just can't figure the current BMWs out. The overall shapes are brilliant, but the details are all wrong. I rather like the 6-series, but those headlights, that grille, and the odd rear end just ruin what could otherwise be an excellent-looking car.

However, there's far worse on the market today. Just take a look at any ssangyong.
 
You're right, this numbering does make it easier.

2. Faster? I'm assuming you mean 130i vs S3. Not really a fair comparison, as you pointed out, since there isn't a direct 1 rival to an S Audi. But even if that is what you meant (and ignoring the upcoming 135), since when was the S3 faster? It's heavier and while it has 4WD, the 1's the car to beat on the track. I can only see the Audi taking it out on a wet straight.

4. Blow it out of the water? Again, you're basing some "fact" around a single fact: you have a huge bias for Audi. Show me some concrete proof that it will be a better car... what, more power than an M5? Yeah, the RS6 tried that last time. And it still wasn't the better driver's car, even in Plus form.

5. Hey, another guess! Sweet... I'm going to say an M3 will be 1500kg and have 450hp. Just because. And now I'll pretend I heard it through some "BMW insider".

7. Based on...?

8. BMW's will change too. That I'm sure.

9. You do realize the irony here, right? You're arguing that Audi's are less hardcore and outright sporty than BMW, which is to their advantage... but then you go on about how they'll be the dynamic benchmark in the next generation. So won't they lose out on their apparent trump card?

That last little bit has got me laughing. Are you seriously under the impression that any 4WD car suddenly will behave with Evo/STi/GT-R levels of adjustability just because it has 4WD? No, an Audi of the current generation won't allow a driver the decision of under/over -steer or neutrality, it will give them a solid dose of understeer because of the inherent design of the suspension and the drive system, as well as engine placement. And 70% throttle in a BMW will still get it around a turn quicker than a hedge-terrorizing Audi with the driver's foot planted, because "gee, 4WD means I can take on anything!".
_________________

And as with most everyone else in here, I'm not anti-Audi. There's an A6 in the family that I love, but Audis are not the same as BMW's. They will sell to different people, and this push Audi is attempting could backfire. There are a lot of people who are content with Audi's high standards of build quality and solidity, them going after BMW will really only have a chance of working on those who already love BMW, like the enthusiast press. It's a minority Audi is focusing on, they're going to end up in super-niche territory like Mercedes.


2. Audi S doesnt compete with M. It competes with BMW's non M top models. RS is now the M fighter. The S3 has already been proven numerous of times to be rather quite a bit faster than the 130 M sport.

4. The S6 has already beaten the M5 in two comparos, and came close to it in one other. The S6 models are soft sporty cars. The RS version is the bonkers model and audi are aiming for BMW's throat. Well actually thats probably Mercedes' throat now seeing as the E63 isA better car than the M5. Theres a reason why the A6 outsells the E-class and 5er back in Germany ;)

5. Nice. The next M3 will have around 420hp and weigh around 1550kg.

7. It has a smaller engine than the X5 of which we were talking about earlier.

8. The Z4 is already in its most hyper form, unless they make a CSL version of which there are no rumours. The TT has already beaten out the Z4 in standard form as a overall car.

9. Where did I say that audi would set the dynamic benchmark? I never said audi's advantage was being less hardcore either.

10. What makes you think those japanese cars are the only competent AWD vehicles? Audi quattro vehicles are the safest 4wd ones, which is what audi aims for when building them. To the average person they might understeer, which is what audi dialled in on purpose, but a skilled driver can coax it to oversteer. Subaru's 4WD system is basically a copy of quattro anyway. Have you driven n S8, MK2 TT, or RS4? They dont beat their competitors around the 'ring if they understeer so much like you say ;)

Hell theres a video of a Audi S8 doing a slalom through cones where the driver gets it to understeer.

11. What you have just said gives me an impression that you think of Mercedes and Audi as underpar to BMW. Quite frankly BMW isnt that far ahead of what they do best, being driving dynamics, and the BMW boss is feeling the heat as he has personally said so himself. Mercedes is getting stronger again, and audi is doing the most growth. With Audi releasing tons of new vehicles and BMW become a victim of its own success in some countries, they are going to have to work extra hard.

Audi's are just beggining to release real audi's, the older models such as the A4, A3, mk1 TT and MK1/2 A6 were all VW hindered chassis wise.

I think I've made it clear in the past that I love my VAG to death, but someone has to point out the possible faults of Audi from time to time. The problem is that the Quad-ringers don't have a stellar track-record when it comes to building outright "sporty" cars, as they nearly end up with a compromise... Comfortable ride, modest sporting ability, middle-road pricing. But that is what Audi does best.

...I don't think in any case that it is about BMW sweating the big stuff. If anything, BMW has most of the market cornered when it comes to sports sedans and coupes, and no matter how hard any company from Germany, Japan, or even America tries, unseating BMW is tough to do. You have to admit that Audi's runs at BMW have been less than stellar over the past few years, and only recently have had anything that is directly competitive with the products, and actually stand a chance to beat the bad-boys from Munich...

With the A5 change people's minds? Maybe. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to make it as good as the 3-series, or whatever it is that this car is supposed to go up against. Weight, power, and the fun-to-drive factors need their respective improvements, and if Audi does their homework like the good boys and girls they should be, we may see an Audi top a BMW without a problem.

I agree, but that compromise comes due to the days of VW chassis'.

I think the A5 will get compared to the 6er mostly due to the A5 being bigger than a 3er, and with the A4's existance about.
 
10. What makes you think those japanese cars are the only competent AWD vehicles? Audi quattro vehicles are the safest 4wd ones, which is what audi aims for when building them. To the average person they might understeer, which is what audi dialled in on purpose, but a skilled driver can coax it to oversteer. Subaru's 4WD system is basically a copy of quattro anyway. Have you driven n S8, MK2 TT, or RS4? They dont beat their competitors around the 'ring if they understeer so much like you say ;)

Care to back that up? Subaru had AWD in the market in 1972. Audi did almost a decade later in 1981. Subaru must have had some hell of an inside scoop to copy a product 9 years before Audi got it to market. :rolleyes:
 
so what your saying is that there is no singal merc owner that bougth his car to show off , and there is no singal BMW owner that bought his car because he like they way it looks ?

No, not one.

Takumi
I just can't figure the current BMWs out. The overall shapes are brilliant, but the details are all wrong.

👍 Good characterization. I agree completely with a few exceptions. I like the M versions of just about every Bangle design, even if I don't like the models on which they're based - but it's the details that makes the M models good. I also like the X3.

Poverty
Audi S doesnt compete with M. It competes with BMW's non M top models.

So the (MY 06) 340-horsepower, $47500 Audi S4 doesn't compete with the 333-horsepower, $48900 BMW M3 but rather with the $37600 225-horsepower BMW 330i?

Smart.

:rolleyes:
 
Care to back that up? Subaru had AWD in the market in 1972. Audi did almost a decade later in 1981. Subaru must have had some hell of an inside scoop to copy a product 9 years before Audi got it to market. :rolleyes:

Compare the Imprezas 4wd sytem to that of audi's quattro ;)

The system subaru are using now is not the same that was used in 1972, and it happened to begin to resemble audi's after the quattro hit the world stage.

So the (MY 06) 340-horsepower, $47500 Audi S4 doesn't compete with the 333-horsepower, $48900 BMW M3 but rather with the $37600 225-horsepower BMW 330i?

Smart.

S used to compete with M. It now no longer does. Keep up with the times....
 
Compare the Imprezas 4wd sytem to that of audi's quattro ;)

The system subaru are using now is not the same that was used in 1972, and it happened to begin to resemble audi's after the quattro hit the world stage.

I don't see the change...2007 Impreza AWD is exactly the same basic design as the '72 Leone. Of course auto locking and then viscous diffs were introduced, but keep in mind that in 1981 Quattro had only manually locking diffs as well.
 
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