◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open
- Thread starter zer05ive
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- Ch11chcftzp
Maybe an executive decision needs to be made about a car for Autumn Ring. I'm getting all flinchy waiting. Give the pick the the next in line.
Oshawa-Joe
Premium
- 5,077
- Hillsdale
- Oshawa-Joe
Hey Ronnie, where have you been? 
- 3,575
- Vancouver, BC
- Falango
Might wanna clean up that sentence. Had to read that 3 times to figure out what it says.......
Dragonwhisky
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- Dragonwhisky
There was an oversight in IR scoring that has now been corrected in the Summary, Director's Doc and Results.
The following is going to sound a bit, gruff and grumpy. I'll not apologize if it does, ya'll will just have to deal with it.
To all those with questions about IRs, Probation, Racecraft, etc.
If a player gets penalties assessed, it will rarely happen they will win a prize. That happened this week. Jayc2K, preliminarily you had won the night's championship for your division and the right to pick Prize C. That all went away once the stewards scored your IR. Do you mean to say, if you race squeaky clean next week, which you better, and win the night, fair and square, you shouldn't be eligible for prizes? I say bollox to that. By being under the burden of probation, which, by the way, will cost you double points for any and all IRs filed and you're found guilty of, while still on probation, Chatva was the most recent recipient of the Probation period working as intended, you'll be compounding your risk and if severe enough, will be getting your second chance to clean up your driving by being voted onto the LCL. If that vote goes against you and the next burden is piled on you as a SNAIL driver, any more incidents you are found guilty of will trigger a vote for your third and last chance, which would be whether or not to boot you out from SNAIL Sunday racing.
Anyone who thinks man made rules and laws can be enforced is, (I have so many different adjectives I want to use at the end of that <--is over there, but I'll settle for) fooling themselves. There is no such thing as enforcement when it comes to any law or rule made by man. For the simple reason that what one man can build, another can break. What the OLR does is set parameters by which the steward corps encourages behavior this league was built to endorse, foster and reward. In almost every challenge where some real world booty was at stake, a driver earned a point for every race week attended, or maybe it was each race attended, I may misremember how that worked exactly. Those challenges generally ran for 2 full seasons. 8 weeks. Now that the math is coming up I think it was a point a race, so, each driver had the potential to earn 6 points a week towards chances to win one of those challenge prizes. The most any one driver could win was, anyone? Anyone? 48 points. If you got a 12 point penalty in one week, that would blow 2 weeks of prize chances away and likely dump you out of the running entirely, since the cutoff was generally set so only 100 chances were allowed and the top folks were the ones that got those chances. I won't go into how that all worked since I wasn't involved with how it was setup, but, suffice it to say, even a 6 point penalty was enough to drop even the most diligent driver below where the cutoff landed. At any rate, back to this enforcement vs encouragement point. There are real world consequences for mistakes in a race car. You all already know what those are. In virtual racing, there is absolutely none. None. The SNAIL OLR and the Penalty Guidelines are the effort to synthesize consequences in order to make it tolerable to deal with the aforementioned lack thereof. Our methods of dealing with drivers who refuse to be encouraged to behave in a safe, orderly, proficient, SNAIL manner, have evolved over the course of more than 2 years. Those methods have been argued over, hairs split, and keyboards worn out to get them to their present state. Can those methods be improved? Possibly. Has a way to improve them already been considered and either adopted or discarded? Probably.
It's been brought up a couple times already to post up videos of good and bad racecraft. Who do you suppose should be picking these examples? Whom do you think should be compiling those chosen examples, converting them to videos and making them available for public consumption? Just the work involved getting the Summary completed drove 6 people to distraction, a couple more than others, for 3 days this past week. None of the stewards have the time to sort through the various replays to extract the examples of bad racecraft. Compiling all the good examples of race craft that occur would be a task of monumentally epic proportions and need a dedicated team of multi talented people, well equipped with audio/visual and internet skill sets, and, more importantly, the time to do it. If someone wants to put a team together, pick up that ball and run with it, be my guest.
I would probably not have felt compelled to write that wall of text up there if every SNAIL would go here, read it, go here and read that, go here and watch a video, after your done there, click this and read, all of it. Once your done doing all that, do it again. Then, do it once more. After you've completed all that, you'll know why you were penalized or why you're on the Last Chance List, or why you're about to get banned from Sunday SNAIL races. You'll know what probation is for and what it means to your racing in SNAIL. Only you can decide how important that is.
Now, I'm hitting the rack before midnight for the first time this week. Good night all.
The following is going to sound a bit, gruff and grumpy. I'll not apologize if it does, ya'll will just have to deal with it.
To all those with questions about IRs, Probation, Racecraft, etc.
If a player gets penalties assessed, it will rarely happen they will win a prize. That happened this week. Jayc2K, preliminarily you had won the night's championship for your division and the right to pick Prize C. That all went away once the stewards scored your IR. Do you mean to say, if you race squeaky clean next week, which you better, and win the night, fair and square, you shouldn't be eligible for prizes? I say bollox to that. By being under the burden of probation, which, by the way, will cost you double points for any and all IRs filed and you're found guilty of, while still on probation, Chatva was the most recent recipient of the Probation period working as intended, you'll be compounding your risk and if severe enough, will be getting your second chance to clean up your driving by being voted onto the LCL. If that vote goes against you and the next burden is piled on you as a SNAIL driver, any more incidents you are found guilty of will trigger a vote for your third and last chance, which would be whether or not to boot you out from SNAIL Sunday racing.
Anyone who thinks man made rules and laws can be enforced is, (I have so many different adjectives I want to use at the end of that <--is over there, but I'll settle for) fooling themselves. There is no such thing as enforcement when it comes to any law or rule made by man. For the simple reason that what one man can build, another can break. What the OLR does is set parameters by which the steward corps encourages behavior this league was built to endorse, foster and reward. In almost every challenge where some real world booty was at stake, a driver earned a point for every race week attended, or maybe it was each race attended, I may misremember how that worked exactly. Those challenges generally ran for 2 full seasons. 8 weeks. Now that the math is coming up I think it was a point a race, so, each driver had the potential to earn 6 points a week towards chances to win one of those challenge prizes. The most any one driver could win was, anyone? Anyone? 48 points. If you got a 12 point penalty in one week, that would blow 2 weeks of prize chances away and likely dump you out of the running entirely, since the cutoff was generally set so only 100 chances were allowed and the top folks were the ones that got those chances. I won't go into how that all worked since I wasn't involved with how it was setup, but, suffice it to say, even a 6 point penalty was enough to drop even the most diligent driver below where the cutoff landed. At any rate, back to this enforcement vs encouragement point. There are real world consequences for mistakes in a race car. You all already know what those are. In virtual racing, there is absolutely none. None. The SNAIL OLR and the Penalty Guidelines are the effort to synthesize consequences in order to make it tolerable to deal with the aforementioned lack thereof. Our methods of dealing with drivers who refuse to be encouraged to behave in a safe, orderly, proficient, SNAIL manner, have evolved over the course of more than 2 years. Those methods have been argued over, hairs split, and keyboards worn out to get them to their present state. Can those methods be improved? Possibly. Has a way to improve them already been considered and either adopted or discarded? Probably.
It's been brought up a couple times already to post up videos of good and bad racecraft. Who do you suppose should be picking these examples? Whom do you think should be compiling those chosen examples, converting them to videos and making them available for public consumption? Just the work involved getting the Summary completed drove 6 people to distraction, a couple more than others, for 3 days this past week. None of the stewards have the time to sort through the various replays to extract the examples of bad racecraft. Compiling all the good examples of race craft that occur would be a task of monumentally epic proportions and need a dedicated team of multi talented people, well equipped with audio/visual and internet skill sets, and, more importantly, the time to do it. If someone wants to put a team together, pick up that ball and run with it, be my guest.
I would probably not have felt compelled to write that wall of text up there if every SNAIL would go here, read it, go here and read that, go here and watch a video, after your done there, click this and read, all of it. Once your done doing all that, do it again. Then, do it once more. After you've completed all that, you'll know why you were penalized or why you're on the Last Chance List, or why you're about to get banned from Sunday SNAIL races. You'll know what probation is for and what it means to your racing in SNAIL. Only you can decide how important that is.
Now, I'm hitting the rack before midnight for the first time this week. Good night all.
DesertPenguin09
(Banned)
- 7,398
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin09
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- zer05ive
The results post should be correct now.
- 55
- Las Cruces NM
- Hydromato22
That s2k race car is fun.
- 530
- United States
- GTP_Vert
Yeah low poer and race tire make this guy happy
- 530
- United States
- GTP_Vert
@zer05ive @Dragonwhisky @JLBowler
Ran some laps and here is what race length and qualifying length should be according to SNAIL Guidelines.
Combo 1:
Honda NSX type R '02 47 475pp/305hp Sports Mediums
SIlverstone Grad Prix Circuit
Laps:5
Qualifying: 6 minutes
Combo 2:
Spoon Honda S2000 Race car 490PP/310hp Racing Hards
Autumn Ring Forward
Laps: 8
Qualifying: 6 minutes
Edit: This no sound thing needs to be fixed. I forsee major issues on Sunday night. I can make my own room and have sound everytime. But as soon as I join a room with less than 3 bars the sound is gone and does not return until rebooting the game.
Ran some laps and here is what race length and qualifying length should be according to SNAIL Guidelines.
Combo 1:
Honda NSX type R '02 47 475pp/305hp Sports Mediums
SIlverstone Grad Prix Circuit
Laps:5
Qualifying: 6 minutes
Combo 2:
Spoon Honda S2000 Race car 490PP/310hp Racing Hards
Autumn Ring Forward
Laps: 8
Qualifying: 6 minutes
Edit: This no sound thing needs to be fixed. I forsee major issues on Sunday night. I can make my own room and have sound everytime. But as soon as I join a room with less than 3 bars the sound is gone and does not return until rebooting the game.
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Dragonwhisky
Premium
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- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
I'm curious Vertigo, what SNAIL guidelines did you use for those race specs? I'd like some lap times myself, if anyone's got some.
Let's get some pics of the new combos up so we can get those sweet banners made.
- 530
- United States
- GTP_Vert
10 minute race times to determine laps. Then using the results doc to figure qualifying time.
- 1,694
- ontario
- USERID_77a23
What was your lap time in each combo ?
- 530
- United States
- GTP_Vert
2:19's in the NSX, 1:18's in the S2k
- 4,886
- Cloud 9
- Rednose58
@Dragonwhisky
With the NSX on Silverstone: Lap times last night in the Blue room was in the 2:16's by the aliens and 2:20's by the mortals. So, a 6 min qually will give you 2 qually laps with time to spare. If you make a mistake - you get one qually lap. 8 min qually will give you three laps with only a few seconds to spare if you don't make a mistake.
We did some laps with the Spoon too. One Alien was into the 1:16's and a few mortals were around the 1:20's. So, a 6 min qually will give the Aliens 4 laps with a few seconds to spare and some mortals may just miss out on a 4th lap. 5 min qually will give you three laps with about 20-30 seconds to spare.
So, I propose we consider 8 min qually for Silverstone and 6 min qually for Auntmn Ring
Laps: 8 laps on Autumn will be around 10:30 - 10:40. 9 laps will be around 12:00 minutes.
Laps: 5 laps on Silverstone will be around 11:30 - 11:40
So, I propose 8 laps on Autumn and 5 laps on Silverstone
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- turnupdaheat
Dragonwhisky
Premium
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- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
With the lap times reported I'm getting the following race specs,
Round 1 will have 5 race laps and 8 qualifying minutes (should allow 3 laps).
Round 2 will have 8 race laps and 7 qualifying minutes (should allow 4 laps).
There really is no "proposing" for this. We have a time honored algorithm for how many laps qualifying are allowed based on how many race laps will be run. We have maths in place to convert that to qualifying minutes, which we didn't used to have the option to set.
The time honored algorithm looks like this;
4 or fewer Race Laps - 2 Qualifying Laps
5 or 6 Race Laps - 3 Qualifying Laps
7 or more Race Laps - 4 Qualifying Laps
Using a median time target 10-12 minute, with the priority being going closer to 12 rather than less than 10, for our races, 660 seconds are divided by a lap time, in seconds, to get race laps. After that, the time honored algorithm is put in to play and the allowed qualifying laps is muliplied by that same lap time, in seconds, another 70 seconds is added to account for run up to the start finish line and small mistakes, the resulting number of seconds is then divided by 60 and rounded to get the qualifying minutes. D1 lap times are not usually used for this process because if we did the slower humans would end going over 12 minutes on a regular basis. Since the middle time value is used for target race length, middle divisions are what we need to use to plug in as lap times. The D1 drivers will still have 10 minute races and the D8 won't go over 12. Those targets are for the 1st place finish time, not total replay time.
Does that make it all clear as mud?
I have a spreadsheet here at work the mimics what is done in the Director's and Results doc to factor race laps and qualifying minutes. If anyone wants it I'll upload it here.
Round 1 will have 5 race laps and 8 qualifying minutes (should allow 3 laps).
Round 2 will have 8 race laps and 7 qualifying minutes (should allow 4 laps).
There really is no "proposing" for this. We have a time honored algorithm for how many laps qualifying are allowed based on how many race laps will be run. We have maths in place to convert that to qualifying minutes, which we didn't used to have the option to set.
The time honored algorithm looks like this;
4 or fewer Race Laps - 2 Qualifying Laps
5 or 6 Race Laps - 3 Qualifying Laps
7 or more Race Laps - 4 Qualifying Laps
Using a median time target 10-12 minute, with the priority being going closer to 12 rather than less than 10, for our races, 660 seconds are divided by a lap time, in seconds, to get race laps. After that, the time honored algorithm is put in to play and the allowed qualifying laps is muliplied by that same lap time, in seconds, another 70 seconds is added to account for run up to the start finish line and small mistakes, the resulting number of seconds is then divided by 60 and rounded to get the qualifying minutes. D1 lap times are not usually used for this process because if we did the slower humans would end going over 12 minutes on a regular basis. Since the middle time value is used for target race length, middle divisions are what we need to use to plug in as lap times. The D1 drivers will still have 10 minute races and the D8 won't go over 12. Those targets are for the 1st place finish time, not total replay time.
Does that make it all clear as mud?
I have a spreadsheet here at work the mimics what is done in the Director's and Results doc to factor race laps and qualifying minutes. If anyone wants it I'll upload it here.
Last edited:
