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Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
 
So far as I know, Scoring has not been pushed up to Data yet. Once D8's scores have been entered it will be.
 
DesertPenguin09
Okay so I'm not doing anything wrong. What's the end date/time for data/scores to be uploaded?
Click to expand...
Normally, if all scoring is complete and there are no issues to work out, scoring gets pushed up to data late Sunday night or very early Monday morning. In special cases like last night where the usual TEAM SNAIL jobs for any one division aren't covered, it waits until the information is there. The prize eligibility deadline is 8:00PM Eastern for all scoring, voting and replays to be completed. If those items haven't been checked off the list by a division, that division's winner will not be eligible to receive prize A, B or C.
 
Rednose58
Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
Click to expand...

with qualification on all races.. this has D1 all over it. All else looks great!

Fastest last?
 
Dragonwhisky
Normally, if all scoring is complete and there are no issues to work out, scoring gets pushed up to data late Sunday night or very early Monday morning. In special cases like last night where the usual TEAM SNAIL jobs for any one division aren't covered, it waits until the information is there. The prize eligibility deadline is 8:00PM Eastern for all scoring, voting and replays to be completed. If those items haven't been checked off the list by a division, that division's winner will not be eligible to receive prize A, B or C.
Click to expand...
That's why I didn't look at the dates just skimmed over the numbers. I have the stuff I use in my signature which includes the data sheet. ;)
 
Rednose58
A D1 guy in a Miata on Monza is going to outquallify a D8 guy in a F430 Scuderia?
Click to expand...
It's still a points race if the D1 guy passes half the field do to collisions and so forth he can still potentially win the night. Looks a lot better and balanced then the old system especially since All 3 "divisions" use all 3 cars during all 3 races!

Also I'm game for testing it. If you need volunteers?
 
Rednose58
Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
Click to expand...

Very cool idea, almost like multiclass racing!

This has just come to mind now, but has anyone considered something like the old form of ROC, but with ballast added as you go towards higher divisions? Example would be D8=0kg, D7=10kg, D6=20kg, etc. The ballast amounts can be tested with a variety of PP cars, so we can work out a formula for it that's balanced, so it's fair for all divisions, regardless of whether we are using a tiny micro car, or a big fast LMP.

I'm not at all trying to discredit what you have @Rednose58, just more suggestions!
 
Falango
Very cool idea, almost like multiclass racing!

This has just come to mind now, but has anyone considered something like the old form of ROC, but with ballast added as you go towards higher divisions? Example would be D8=0kg, D7=10kg, D6=20kg, etc. The ballast amounts can be tested with a variety of PP cars, so we can work out a formula for it that's balanced, so it's fair for all divisions, regardless of whether we are using a tiny micro car, or a big fast LMP.

I'm not at all trying to discredit what you have @Rednose58, just more suggestions!
Click to expand...

I thought about it too, but then you have to open the "Tuning Unlimit" restriction. Then you rely on utmost honesty to only add balast without any other tuning.

Another option is to change tire compounds -1 for D1/D2 and +1 for D6-8
 
Falango
Very cool idea, almost like multiclass racing!

This has just come to mind now, but has anyone considered something like the old form of ROC, but with ballast added as you go towards higher divisions? Example would be D8=0kg, D7=10kg, D6=20kg, etc. The ballast amounts can be tested with a variety of PP cars, so we can work out a formula for it that's balanced, so it's fair for all divisions, regardless of whether we are using a tiny micro car, or a big fast LMP.

I'm not at all trying to discredit what you have @Rednose58, just more suggestions!
Click to expand...
I think rednose is the way to go it would be alot more fun and I think full damage should be put on. Then anyone has a chance to win if fast guys are not careful passing the lap traffic.
 
DesertPenguin09
I went to the data sheet but it didn't have this week up yet. Just last week
Click to expand...

That's all I saw earlier as well, but I was on my phone so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

If memory serves me correctly there was only 1 vote for C1 in D3 last night. I think majority was C3. I liked all of them this time so makes no difference to me. I would go on record to say the Ferrari combo was the least raceable, although I do find it fun to race the clock there.
 
Agree about the Ferrari. Fun on the track, but doesn't allow much side by side or places for overtakes. I feel a slightly slower car that's just as agile would do better.
 
Rednose58
I thought about it too, but then you have to open the "Tuning Unlimit" restriction. Then you rely on utmost honesty to only add balast without any other tuning.

Another option is to change tire compounds -1 for D1/D2 and +1 for D6-8
Click to expand...

Oh right, forgot about that one!
 
Rednose58
Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
Click to expand...
How about the different classes just use different tires?
 
Rednose58
Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
Click to expand...

I like it, A LOT.

I volunteer to assist with scorekeeping/stewarding
 
GTP_Nobby
@Handlebar Way cool! Looks like some counter steering in that last shot. How were the track conditions? Love the pics!
Click to expand...

I have to admit, that shot was from one of my sessions on the skid pad. I did pretty well with that. It gave me a lot more confidence to toss it around on Saturday and Sunday. :cool: Those were pretty, clear, and 55-75 degrees.

Friday was very cool (40-55) and increasingly wet, and as it started to rain, my grip went away far too quickly. A few weeks ago, I'd learned about balancing hot tire pressure, and some of the guys would start their tires a bit lower than normal PSI so they'd be at or close to their optimal track pressure for most of the run. I mistakenly started mine too low. Essentially the air pressure in the tires - 25% lower than recommended pressure - didn't have enough pressure for the center of the tire to push down and force the water away from the center of the tread. :scared:

Good inflation does something like this:

oy3JMaU.jpg


Underinflation... yech! The moment I touched the accelerator, or got remotely sideways, it became rather ... exciting.

OhGiQnG.jpg


Learn more about tire stuff over here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=3

By the end, I was whipping it around pretty decent. I went solo for the last session Saturday, and 3 of 4 on Sunday. My instructor would put me in his car (the red one in my earlier post - an '87) for a session of 20-30 minutes, and he'd show me main and alternate lines, and we'd go over many parts of the track, turn in points, etc. Instead of taking me out in his group (one of the top groups), he took me out in the group one above mine. A little faster, a little more consistent, but not terra incognita.

Then we had 20-30 minutes of classroom, map, tech discussion, then it was time for MY session to try to either emulate parts of what he did, or work on the technical goals we set. Ultimately, I spent a lot of seat time in his car and my car. My body feels a bit like I've been in a car accident after 3 days.

I wouldn't change a thing. :cheers:
 
ROC Proposal - March 2015 Season Scenario.....
If I put a bit of a realistic scenario together of the March 2015 season, here is what it could have been. I haven't analyzed the winning drivers, but the cars and tracks and a potential outcome of votes could have ended up like this. If management has an apetite for this we can put a project team together develop something and be ready for a May 2015 ROC Championship?

ROC Proposal.png
 
Rednose58
Proposal - Alternative format for ROC​
Since the ROC has been suspended – here is a proposal for an alternative.

Objective: To recognize the season’s top performers with a special race event – have fun for the night – but, with a twist…..
Selection of the drivers – 14 in total
D1/D2: 4 drivers – Two from each division. Chosen by ranking the total season points for each division separately. Go down the list until you have 2 available drivers of each division (They are the “Crackerjack Class”)
D3/D4/D5: 5 Drivers – The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Au Fait Class”)
D6/D7/D8: 5 Drivers - The three winners of each division and then rank the rest of field by season points. Go down the list until you have 5 available drivers (They are the “Tenderfoot Class”)
The other two people in the room will be the Host(Stewart) and the Scorekeeper. These two people will monitor the event and make sure that there is respectful conduct – driving and language in the room at all times.
Selection of the cars: The cars of the season are divided up as follows: Group 1: The two cars with lowest PP. Group 2: The cars with the mid PP. Group 3: The two cars with the highest PP. Each driver gets three votes - one for each group. The three group winners will be the cars that make it to the ROC (Hopefully you get a wide spread... read further why a wide spread is good)
Selection of the track: Each driver votes for one track of the season. The one track with the most votes will be the track of the ROC
(Yes: Three cars – one track)
Format: Three by 15 minute endurance races with 6 minutes of qualifying each. Fastest First. Rest of the settings as per SNAIL
Race One:
Crackerjacks: Car with highest PP
Au Faits: Car with lowest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with second highest PP
Race Two:
Crackerjacks: Car with second highest PP
Au Faits: Car with highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with lowest PP
Race Three:
Crackerjacks: Car with lowest PP
Au Faits: Car with second highest PP
Tenderfoots: Car with highest PP
Point scoring as per SNAIL. Now you can have somewhat of a separation between divisions, you can have a ROC Champion for the Season and you can have class winners for the Season. And a Div 8 driver has a fair chance to be ROC.

All we need is a few volunteers set things up and make this work…

Comments....?
Click to expand...

I don't want to be a downer because I really do like the idea of the ROC races but the real issue I think is D1 vs D8 , if the faster guys don't recognize that they are on the track with cars 4 to 6 seconds slower per lap and don't provide the necessary room, then the mayhem of the old ROC series will still be there. To me this is a "for fun" event amongst friends, where people shouldn't be forcing their way to the front. It should be a display of racecraft not a display of speed.
 
Last edited:
Lessen
Having 2 live stewards will have an impact on the nature of things I'm sure.
Click to expand...
on the other hand you could put all the winners in the Miata 89, turn on the boost and run a regular Combo Night. Oh wait....someone already did that. My Bad.

BTW IT IS MONDAY.... yet again.

Warm up the Miata 89s and BRZeds....Fun, Fun,Fun till your daddy takes the T-Bird away....or words to that effect.

I will not post the stock Miata Picture. Instead I will send A free copy of the St. Pete Indy Car Program to the first person who identifies the car below....oh and where was it made and tested.
IMG_0766.JPG

IMG_0767.JPG IMG_0768.JPG
 
USERID_77a23
It may , but what would be the consequence for violations. If they could be banned from participating in ROC if they were found to be careless on track, that might work.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think it needs to be that severe. Sometimes the presence alone does the work.
 
USERID_77a23
I don't want to be a downer because I really do like the idea of the ROC races but the real issue I think is D1 vs D8 , if the faster guys don't recognize that they are on the track with cars 4 to 6 seconds slower per lap and don't provide the necessary room, then the mayhem of the old ROC series will still be there. To me this is a "for fun" event amongst friends, where people shouldn't be forcing their way to the front. It should be a display of racecraft not a display of speed.
Click to expand...
I love the idea of a ROC that isn't just a "fun" race but a season over all champion. And seeing as I watched the few live streamed ROC's. The "idea" proposed by @Rednose not only gives the D8's a chance to be racy against the D1's (aka to pass them) but makes it a more interesting races especially over the old system!

Do weight gains as the divisions go up doesn't really work! As if the car is chosen that put 20 kg's extra into it kills the car (the lotus elan) or tire changes won't work! Look at the Ford SS tires were awesome on that car but we ran it on RH and going up to RM's it handles well again!
USERID_77a23
It may , but what would be the consequence for violations. If they could be banned from participating in ROC if they were found to be careless on track, that might work.
Click to expand...
Here's an idea aggressive driving BLACK FLAG them! serve a 5 second penalty, drive threw pit road or loose your points for that race if it's heinous enough ban them for the night.
Having live stewards brings on so many possibilities. It can become a real race event! bring in all the flags red, black, blue, maybe not cautions. But green, red, black and blue for sure!
 

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