10/20/2007 Demo
- Thread starter M5_dude
- 897 comments
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- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
Wow kamus, I dont think me and you were playing the same game.
I play gt4 and gt:hd religously and I immediately noticed a physics change. I think you may just be used to playing a different game and want it to be like that. I would say the braking feels the most different to me. I thought the sounds better then you make them out to be too.
I play gt4 and gt:hd religously and I immediately noticed a physics change. I think you may just be used to playing a different game and want it to be like that. I would say the braking feels the most different to me. I thought the sounds better then you make them out to be too.
- 11,462
- U.K
- Paganisterr
- Ak Paganister
I agree with the sound not being the best... Maybe improved a little, but they still remind me if GT4's.
The AI is better - they won't run you off the road on a straight anymore!
After several races the only contact I've had with them is when I have ran into them and when I braked too early. They definitely seem to try and avoid you more now. I'll have to fight with them a little harder to see how well they react.
The AI is better - they won't run you off the road on a straight anymore!
After several races the only contact I've had with them is when I have ran into them and when I braked too early. They definitely seem to try and avoid you more now. I'll have to fight with them a little harder to see how well they react.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,556
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Which of the options do have set? Turn off TCS and ASM, set the arcade/sim to sim and get in the BMW, donuts are easily achievable, ditto with handbrake turns and power-oversteer can be implemented out of 2 and 3 gear turns.
This is quite a bit different to the GT4 physics engine, in which all of the above were pretty much impossible to achieve.
While the sounds are not 100% what I would expect they certainly are not crappy, again they have moved on a big way from GT4. What does impress with the sound set-up is the separation, running a descent home cinema its perfectly possible to tell the position of any other car around you simply from its sound.
Regards
Scaff
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
The AI has definitely improved. That is a fact that cannot be dissputed.
- 416
For gods sake quit with your agenda, nothings perfect but this is pretty damn good.
Why is it always those that complain that make the biggest posts!
Move on if you don't like it, I certainly play more than one driving sim.
- 8,016
- GTP_Royalton
- 5,603
- England, Warwickshire
- GTP_Sigma
First thoughts:
First thing that hits you is the graphics, and they are impressive. I have however seen teh screenshots, so what surprised me most in the frist 20 seconds of racing was the AI, it has infact improved, and improved substancial at least from the first veiwings. They try much harder to avoid you, I tried putting them in difficult positions expecting a dull thud, but to my surprise I only heard it once out of many attempts. They jocle and try and overtake each other
The physics where fun too, I got rid of the ASM and TCS, put S3's on front and back, and took the Evo 9 for a spin, on the first physics setting, (Proffesional I recon). And it was great fun to slide round the corners.
The sound I had paid little attention too, until I restarted the race, and hit the brakes to put myslef into last, just to get a good look of the feild. Later in the race I pulled alongside a mustang, and the mustang sounded impressive.
I then thought i would give the interior a quick check, and it for me it is the best addition to the game, it was bettier than I was expecting, you veiw bobs around a bit through G-force, the gauges work nicely, the interior looks stunning, then you press look behind and you can see the rear-wind screen and the big red Evo spoiler, nice.
There are a few more nice touches;
the replays have a few more exciting views and there is even the odd heat haze around.
The crowd, is acctually there, there is atmosphere unlike GT4, you acctually feel as if you are at an event.
menu's are nice, they are far more intersting than normal
The grass and gravel has a much bigger effect on you car. i tried the GTR on the grass and floored it, the rear end snaked about and I nearly lost it, you bounce and bounce over the gravel, like you see in normal racing.
there are more things but I will have longer go on it tommorow, and relay them back here.
Bad points: These mainly reside in the fact it is a demo but I will state them anyway.
Music, I can't turn it off, it will get annoying, plus I want to hear the other engines. Still there may be an option to turn it off somewhere, but I am guessing the options are all in japanese so i won't find it.
Only 2 laps, a demo thing, oh well, I will have to wait until prologue, 16 cars is nice but I can only overtake so many in 2 laps, its good it stars you in 8th, so you can win it, but if you wont to drop back to see the whole feild don't count on re overtaking them all again in 2 laps.
summary:
Impressive, I can't wait to see the new features we will see in prologue, and finally GT5. No doubt the next few days forza comparissons are going to be flying around, so I might aswell say my peice now. ahem. There isn't too much you tell feature wise from such an early demo, the things you can tell is teh attention to detail, the graphical capabilities, the core of the physics engine, and importantly that it works and is fun. So far I would say GT is off to a great start, but it has a long way to go, is it better/worse? its way to early to tell.
lets hear what you think.
First thing that hits you is the graphics, and they are impressive. I have however seen teh screenshots, so what surprised me most in the frist 20 seconds of racing was the AI, it has infact improved, and improved substancial at least from the first veiwings. They try much harder to avoid you, I tried putting them in difficult positions expecting a dull thud, but to my surprise I only heard it once out of many attempts. They jocle and try and overtake each other
The physics where fun too, I got rid of the ASM and TCS, put S3's on front and back, and took the Evo 9 for a spin, on the first physics setting, (Proffesional I recon). And it was great fun to slide round the corners.
The sound I had paid little attention too, until I restarted the race, and hit the brakes to put myslef into last, just to get a good look of the feild. Later in the race I pulled alongside a mustang, and the mustang sounded impressive.
I then thought i would give the interior a quick check, and it for me it is the best addition to the game, it was bettier than I was expecting, you veiw bobs around a bit through G-force, the gauges work nicely, the interior looks stunning, then you press look behind and you can see the rear-wind screen and the big red Evo spoiler, nice.
There are a few more nice touches;
the replays have a few more exciting views and there is even the odd heat haze around.
The crowd, is acctually there, there is atmosphere unlike GT4, you acctually feel as if you are at an event.
menu's are nice, they are far more intersting than normal
The grass and gravel has a much bigger effect on you car. i tried the GTR on the grass and floored it, the rear end snaked about and I nearly lost it, you bounce and bounce over the gravel, like you see in normal racing.
there are more things but I will have longer go on it tommorow, and relay them back here.
Bad points: These mainly reside in the fact it is a demo but I will state them anyway.
Music, I can't turn it off, it will get annoying, plus I want to hear the other engines. Still there may be an option to turn it off somewhere, but I am guessing the options are all in japanese so i won't find it.
Only 2 laps, a demo thing, oh well, I will have to wait until prologue, 16 cars is nice but I can only overtake so many in 2 laps, its good it stars you in 8th, so you can win it, but if you wont to drop back to see the whole feild don't count on re overtaking them all again in 2 laps.
summary:
Impressive, I can't wait to see the new features we will see in prologue, and finally GT5. No doubt the next few days forza comparissons are going to be flying around, so I might aswell say my peice now. ahem. There isn't too much you tell feature wise from such an early demo, the things you can tell is teh attention to detail, the graphical capabilities, the core of the physics engine, and importantly that it works and is fun. So far I would say GT is off to a great start, but it has a long way to go, is it better/worse? its way to early to tell.
lets hear what you think.
Ok.. compare it to REAL cars, and look at the speed you're going, and look at how late you're braking and not messing up.
I'm sorry, the new physics engine doesn't feel that much different from the old one. it is somewhat less forgiving, but it has the same dreaded feel from the old one:
The tyre simulation is bad! this is, the most important thing in a simulator. and they didn't get it right. we can give them the benefit of doubt till GT5 final ships, but it doesn't look like it's their goal... afterall it hasn't been for 4 other games now.
There's quite a few sims out there with far more realistic tyre simulations, you should try them before you defend PD with a shield and sword.
Of course the problem with those games, is that they lack in other areas, and most of them (excluding EPR) don't have production cars, which is what i like most about the GT series.
Now, you CAN get the tyres to feel more realistic if you choose the non racing ones, but the problem is that even those don't feel realistic enough, the grip just doesn't feel right at all, it doesn't feel like you're on actual tyres.
They just made the new physics mode "harder" but it is based on the SAME engine, and like i said. that's the problem to begin with, because that engine isn't acurate.
- 2,248
- dunedin NZ
- Godzilla_GTR
- Godzilla_GTR
man the new physic's are great. im certain some of the complainer's have not put it on sim(SECOND option) as the arcade option does feel the same. You can actually feel the wieght of the car's drasticlly improved along with braking. im glad they picked suzuka as it has the perfect drift area(east section from GT4, FM2 etc) and the rest is a good race track. Wish we could set the lap's however... and drive some of the other car's(namely F430 and NSX). Hopefully we get the incar veiw shortly for the GTR.
- 1,252
- Gottcha
Much agreed on the AI 👍👍
I've only done 2 races so far (blasted homework!!!
), but I've had 2 great races with the Lancer. Haven't tried anything else yet, but yes the interiors are immaculate, the sounds are improved for sure, especially the Mustang, and yes the physics are great...though I wasn't sure what the ASM option was til I read a post...so i played with ASM on...which was of course by accident. Can't wait to play more of this!For those of you who don't have it, get a Japanese account and download this ASAP....that is all.
- 2,248
- dunedin NZ
- Godzilla_GTR
- Godzilla_GTR
tp stev go into option's, then across to the speaker icon and then turn the BGM(is the top otion i think) down
- 11,462
- U.K
- Paganisterr
- Ak Paganister
There is a way. Go to Option, then go all the way to the right option with the speaker symbol, then there is 3 "BMG" options. Turn them down. The first one turns the music off through the menus, the second turns it off during the reply, and the third one turns it off during in game.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
I'm loving this demo so far!
- GRAPHICS:
Graphics are tremendous, but I can see plenty of room for improvement! I really did not believe I would have any interest in using the new cockpit view... and I was dead wrong! It's enough to make me want to get a 3-screen PS3 set-up just to get the complete peripheral view.
- SOUND:
I found the car sounds to be both superb and very realistic and not at all over exaggerated as found in some well known driving games... especially fed through 7.1 channel surround... fantastic low hertz base response from low RPMs! 👍
TIP: Drive along the F430 and crank up your sound system!!!!!
- PHYSICS:
The physics engine is indeed excellent, although one needs to log several hours using several cars and several set-ups to realistically unveil all of its charms and weaknesses.
After I log a hundred hours or so with various cars and set-ups I'll report back on brakes, suspension, grip, roll, steering, etc...
My immediate feeling right now is that the overall physics engines are fantastic. 👍
- AI:
They appear more "self aware", but like the physics, for any reasonably accurate assessment one would really need to spend a lot of time testing them out under different situations. So far so good though, and in the end, online racing with real players is where it's at! 👍👍
- THE CARS:
Again, I really need to log more hours with all of them, but so far I am very impressed. 👍
- THE TRACKS:
Also excellent, and they appear to have a great deal more "characteristic" and ofer more feedback to the driver, where you can see that your car is responding to even the slightest bump and rise on the track. Really enjoying this!
- OVERALL:
Tremendous value for a free demo!!! And it shows great promise for what GT5 may be like. It definitely leaves me wanting access to far more of the cars and tracks!!!!!
- 2,248
- dunedin NZ
- Godzilla_GTR
- Godzilla_GTR
2nd one is replay third is game
Excuse me? i'm not the one claiming GT is the "real driving simulator". It's PD.
An can you explain Enthusia then? that matches the physics of those simulators that you call "die hard" with ease in most regards.
And who even metioned Forza here? i could care less about that one.
Hell, just yesterday PD had even a different genere for their game, i just can't recall what it is and it has been replaced with info of the GT5
demo.But it was something like:
Genere: "life driving simulator" (yes, they used life. go figure. it was something like that but you get the point.)
And by the way, they have an explination of the features of GT5
here:http://www.gran-turismo.com/gt5p/index_en.html
Notice they translated the menus wrong, they point to different things than they should (i think the physics button points to the AI explination.)
And just as i typed this i FOUND their genere explination!, ready? here goes:
Genere: Online Car Life Simulator.
Anyway... it all looks very nice there, but having played the demo i can immediatly tell that the physics, while different are still wrong and can use a truly new physics engine instead.
Defects aside, i'll still have my share of fun with this game, i just REALLY hope that by the time GT5 final ships those problems i talked about will be gone, but realisticly... we know all they'll do from now on is concentrate on adding more content, and refining existing mechanics of GT5
.
- 2,248
- dunedin NZ
- Godzilla_GTR
- Godzilla_GTR
anyway to drive the mazda???
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
Kamus your obviously a hater.
I'm sorry your glass is half empty but the demo is sick.
I think you should just go play your precious Race 07 and stop trying to convince everyone on a GT5 fansite forum that the demo is sub-par. Its not going to happen.
P.S. Race 07 SUCKS!!!! hahahahaha
I'm sorry your glass is half empty but the demo is sick.
I think you should just go play your precious Race 07 and stop trying to convince everyone on a GT5 fansite forum that the demo is sub-par. Its not going to happen.
P.S. Race 07 SUCKS!!!! hahahahaha
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,556
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Music was the first thing I turned off, then a quick change of the trigger buttons to the throttle and brakes.
I have however just done the most basic of AI tests, parked the car on the racing line on the back straight and see what happens. Unfortunately it failed this one, got driven straight into.
So while they are better when racing side by side, the AI still needs quite a bit of work.
@Kamus - in regard to the physics, are you aware that PD have already stated that GT5 (and from that we can only assume the demo as well) has two physics engine. The arcade one, which is indeed a tweak of the GT4 engine; and a sim one, which is new. Set the sim one (second option down on the race set-up screen - bottom option), stick a set of N3's on the 135 and tell me with all honesty that a RWD car in GT4 drove the same.
Oh and as to why the GT series carries that tag, well perhaps its down to a small issue called marketing. Keep in mind that Enthusia made similar bold claims on its packaging and marketing, yet it has its own issues with realism.
One things that's clearly different with the physics engine is the lack (I'm glad to say) of the silly tyre bog down when you go wide open throttle from a standing start.
The gravel traps are a nice touch as well, they defiantly slow you down in a big way when trying to get out.
Regards
Scaff
I have however just done the most basic of AI tests, parked the car on the racing line on the back straight and see what happens. Unfortunately it failed this one, got driven straight into.
So while they are better when racing side by side, the AI still needs quite a bit of work.
@Kamus - in regard to the physics, are you aware that PD have already stated that GT5
(and from that we can only assume the demo as well) has two physics engine. The arcade one, which is indeed a tweak of the GT4 engine; and a sim one, which is new. Set the sim one (second option down on the race set-up screen - bottom option), stick a set of N3's on the 135 and tell me with all honesty that a RWD car in GT4 drove the same.Sorry but Enthusia does not match the physics of a good PC sim at all, while this is not the thread for this particular discussion (we have a massive thread dedicated to the realism of the Enthusia physics engine), EPR has its own issue with realism, some of which are rather serious (such as an almost total lack of heavy understeer in FWD cars, no wheelspin from a standing start with a FWD on full throttle, totally screwed up tyre physics for the race cars, an almost total lack of snap-back on large angle drift recovery (almost the total opposite of GT4 in that regard) and a total lack of aero lift modelling at high speed).
Oh and as to why the GT series carries that tag, well perhaps its down to a small issue called marketing. Keep in mind that Enthusia made similar bold claims on its packaging and marketing, yet it has its own issues with realism.
One things that's clearly different with the physics engine is the lack (I'm glad to say) of the silly tyre bog down when you go wide open throttle from a standing start.
The gravel traps are a nice touch as well, they defiantly slow you down in a big way when trying to get out.
Regards
Scaff
- 184
hey guys i found something REALLY NEAT if you take the skyline gtr and go into the camera with the speed and rev meter if you look closely between the gear and redline light you can see 2 ARROWS, one points right and one points left. they look like signals to me, like the type you put on before making a left or a right turn?
anyone esle see this too?
anyone esle see this too?
Major picky complaint from me;
While in the cockpit view, the steering wheel doesn't rotate more then 200 deegrees...
What happened to all those fab looking hands crossing we saw in the trailers? This is quite anoying to me, especially when you correct a massive slide, my G25 wheel is almost at full 900 deegrees, and the in game wheel has hardly moved.
I know Kaz is a perfectionist, and I believe there is no way he would not have noticed this.
The physics seem to really improve in the area of trottle oversteer.
While in the cockpit view, the steering wheel doesn't rotate more then 200 deegrees...
What happened to all those fab looking hands crossing we saw in the trailers? This is quite anoying to me, especially when you correct a massive slide, my G25 wheel is almost at full 900 deegrees, and the in game wheel has hardly moved.
I know Kaz is a perfectionist, and I believe there is no way he would not have noticed this.
The physics seem to really improve in the area of trottle oversteer.
I'm loving this demo so far!
- GRAPHICS:
Graphics are tremendous, but I can see plenty of room for improvement! I really did not believe I would have any interest in using the new cockpit view... and I was dead wrong! It's enough to make me want to get a 3-screen PS3 set-up just to get the complete peripheral view.
- SOUND:
I found the car sounds to be both superb and very realistic and not at all over exaggerated as found in some well known driving games... especially fed through 7.1 channel surround... fantastic low hertz base response from low RPMs! 👍
TIP: Drive along the F430 and crank up your sound system!!!!!
- PHYSICS:
The physics engine is indeed excellent, although one needs to log several hours using several cars and several set-ups to realistically unveil all of its charms and weaknesses.
After I log a hundred hours or so with various cars and set-ups I'll report back on brakes, suspension, grip, roll, steering, etc...
My immediate feeling right now is that the overall physics engines are fantastic. 👍
- AI:
They appear more "self aware", but like the physics, for any reasonably accurate assessment one would really need to spend a lot of time testing them out under different situations. So far so good though, and in the end, online racing with real players is where it's at! 👍👍
- THE CARS:
Again, I really need to log more hours with all of them, but so far I am very impressed. 👍
- THE TRACKS:
Also excellent, and they appear to have a great deal more "characteristic" and ofer more feedback to the driver, where you can see that your car is responding to even the slightest bump and rise on the track. Really enjoying this!
- OVERALL:
Tremendous value for a free demo!!! And it shows great promise for what GT5
Man...
This is the kind of review that is a DREAM come true for the marketing guys that try to shove the features in the publics throaths.
you're giving me a Halo 3 flashback with all the positive talk and 10+s evrywhere...
But i know better, and you are missleading people here.
I agree with you with the graphics, PD is on a league of it's own when it comes to drawing power out of a console, this has to be the best use of the Cell so far. (RSX... i guess for 1080p, 720p they could've made something TRULY special though.)
Sound, I'm sorry... this are the same crappy sounds we've come to terms with in the past. to say that they are very realistic makes me wonder if you've ever seen videos of cars in a track at all. or heard other games with far better sound.
Tip: Go to youtube and do a search on "Top gear 430" and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Physics:
The new physics mode, while less forgiving still shares the same flaws GT4 has. (mainly, the tyre simulation is inacurate.)\
Tracks:
Better than i expected, but when put in contrast with the cars they seem to be lacking lots of detail compared to the cars, maybe they ran out of fillrate to put more polygons in the tracks? who knows, but still, nice to look at. just not as nice to look at as the cars themselves. (PGR4 surprised me in this area by the way, very nice look in all aspects, even though the cars can't hold a candle to the GT5 ones.)
Overall:
a very nice and complete demo, the attention to details, menus and overall interface in just a demo is amazing, it's better than a lot of full games out there.
Lets get real here.. CALM DOWN, i know evryone wants to play this really bad, including me. but lets not have the hype blind our judgment, and lets look at this as objectivly as we can.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
Agreed!
That has been a common comment with regards to responses by many others in his seemingly never ending criticisms of GT4 as well, so don't think you are alone on this.
I agree on all point, especially the sound...
So very true! Even my wife, who just doesn't "get" my interest in racing games was oooing and awwwing over the sounds of the cars as they surrounded me on the track! Great directional surround sound!!! Brilliant stuff! 👍
Excellent point and suggestions.
I would only add that I find those already making a definitive conclusion on the "quality" of the physics after logging just an hour or so on the demo with a very limited selection of cars, tracks, set-ups, conditions, etc to be... well rather premature at best... but maybe that's just me.
- 358
- Penthouse
- 302
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
Excellent point and suggestions.
I would only add that I find those already making a definitive conclusion on the "quality" of the physics after logging just an hour or so on the demo with a very limited selection of cars, tracks, set-ups, conditions, etc to be... well rather premature at best... but maybe that's just me.
Case in point:
He apparently didn't read his own criticism that jumped to so many conclusions and proclaimed many things wrong... based on how much time with the game?
Then goes on responding to everyone who expresses a very different opinion about the game letting them know how wrong they are... someone does need to calm down, that's for sure... and that person also needs to better understand what objective reasoning is... as their criticisms have been filled with subjective opinion disguised as objective fact. 👎👎
Wow... how many ways can one point out the flaws in judging sound quality and realism based on a YouTube video... where is the objectivity in that?!?!
I'm thinking it best to just ignore him at this point. he flamed up the other GT5 threads already, so no surprise he is doing it again here. 👎
- 177
- Darth Turismo
Yeah i would have to agree. There is probably far too high an expectation for every new GT game that comes out... I am probably one of the worst too as far as what i want and expect.....
Here is an Aussies take on the new gt5 Prologue demo:
Graphics: very pretty (but have noticed a strange clipping/jitter at times??? has anyone else noticed? Even in the car screens!!!
In car view very nice too!
AI: has changed a lot.... not sure what the dissapointed ppl were expecting but after playing around and spinning out etc etc.... it is clear that they try to avoid you... change their line, brake hard... overcorrect.... all the things you would expect.... i did a 180 in the middle of the track at high speed and saw 6 cars behind me suddenly all spread to avoid me!!! only 1 clipped me as it was attempting to swerve! the rest missed! that's pretty good :-)
And if you come into a corner too hot and there is some traffic basically you can send them into the scrub!!!! that can be a little cheeky! but fun....
It is also normal to see them fighting one another for position and even going off the track because they are trying too hard....
sounds: for me they appear to be all the same sounds we have heard before but at a higher bit rate....... i have a full surround sound set-up so it is coming out the best it can. It's not terribly bad or anything but it is very much the same as GT4.
There have been a lot of comments about the Mustang V8 and how it sounds... I would say that it is sounding meatier from behind.... but
if u watch a replay set the replay to follow the Mustang and then change the view to bumper cam u will notice it is pretty much as Kamas said (a blender)
so for me the sounds are probably the only area I truly believe they need to re-visit. But this IS a demo and as a demo it cannot be faulted! It is afterall free.....!
I'm sure the actual release in 2 months or so will see much of this addressed! I also imagine polyphony are probably going to keep an ear and an eye out for all the feedback positive and negative!!!
To those with the demo! enjoy :-) To those who will soon have it... if yr a GT fan u will love it.... feels like yr favourite pair of shoes... but with new inner soles ;-)
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