18 Minute Gamespot/Gamescom FM4 Video

[alucard0712]

Still I think Current gen consoles limit the possibilities for full FM, and GT experiences.

Straight from my mouth.

GT is only limited by Kazunori Yamauchi himself for not being able to do things in a logical way, or better yet, just do things under reasonable amounts of time, or with a rational order of importance...

Actually PS3 limits GT (or prevent GT from being what it is already) more than anything else. First of all it hurts graphics, second AI and physics. Also number of opponents at once.

XBOX has better hardware, at least for graphics. Ok, at least it has more RAM to play with. So T10 way is easer. And they not striving for stupid things like "1080p"...

Edit: I read your post once again and fully agree with you. They could manage PS3 resources better...

 

[OGL]

Actually PS3 limits GT (or prevent GT from being what it is already) more than anything else. First of all it hurts graphics, second AI and physics. Also number of opponents at once.
Edit: I read your post once again and fully agree with you. They could manage PS3 resources better...

Well, most certainly PS3's hardware is enough to do a solid AI, it is just Kaz who doesn't care about it. The AI in other racers like Shift 2 and Dirt/F1 is a generation ahead of GT's. And having better hardware would not make 800 standart cars premium thats for sure. The physics is not that hard to be calculated, especially when you have 8 cores. Of course if it is not like simulating seat belt tension when cornering
I would agree with the number of opponents but it is not a major issue. However, I still dream of a Nurburgring 24h game with over 200 cars on track with dynamic weather and time.
The shadows problem seems to be common for most of PS3 exclusives, it is just less noticeable in some cases. You can see the same jaggied shadows in Uncharted 2,3, Killzone 2,3, Infamous 1,2. At the same time Xbox doesn't seem to have these problems at all.

PS. And hey, I'm from Russia as well.

 

[alucard0712]

Well, most certainly PS3's hardware is enough to do a solid AI, it is just Kaz who doesn't care about it. The AI in other racers like Shift 2 and Dirt/F1 is a generation ahead of GT's. And having better hardware would not make 800 standart cars premium thats for sure. The physics is not that hard to be calculated, especially when you have 8 cores. Of course if it is not like simulating seat belt tension when cornering
I would agree with the number of opponents but it is not a major issue. However, I still dream of a Nurburgring 24h game with over 200 cars on track with dynamic weather and time.
The shadows problem seems to be common for most of PS3 exclusives, it is just less noticeable in some cases. You can see the same jaggied shadows in Uncharted 2,3, Killzone 2,3, Infamous 1,2. At the same time Xbox doesn't seem to have these problems at all.

PS. And hey, I'm from Russia as well.

If PS3 is enough for GT5 tell me why GT5P has better shadows, 16 cars at once, less screen tearing, better textures (overall better graphics) than full GT5? You think only tire smoke has eaten all the PS3 resources? Answer is physics and AI, they are much more complex than in GT5P. And don't compare it to Shift or Dirt - they are 30fps games with arcade physics - enough resources left for good AI and more opponent cars at once.

Thus I partially agreed with you about AI - it seems to be more PD problem, but number of opponents in one time is fully about PS3 capabilities.

PS3 has 8 cores - yes, but you know well that:
1 - disabled completely
1 - reserved for OS
1 - reserved for sound processing,
leaving PS3 with 5 cores...

Jagged shadows isn't PS3 problem at all. It's about developers and amount of RAM or frame-buffer, but enough about this.

P.S: can you talk Russian?

 

[OGL]

As far as I remember GT5P had only 12 cars on track, but I might be wrong, played it a long time ago. And yes, I think Prologue was a lot better than the final game.
GT5P shadows aren't better on the same tracks and the same conditions. And overall shadow quality seem to differ from track to track. I remember one track on which none of the environmental shadows casted on the cars or cockpits at all.
The main problem is probably 1080p which is just too much for 256mb of VRAM. And yes, tire smoke and other particle effects are always hard to render, especially considering that the smoke in GT5 is on the same level as NVidia PhysX demos. You can see the same smoke in Mafia 2 on PC with PhysX enabled. Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiJogb-k230
I actually liked Prologue's physics better than the final, as well as windscreen wind sound at high speeds and the career structure. The menus were very advanced and good looking, with calendar and time and stuff like that. I still don't get why they wasted all these.
Technically GT5 is more advanced than FM4 in some areas, but worse in others. For example it has dynamic lighting while FM doesn't , but has ugly simple cubicmap reflections while FM has hires reflections with other cars reflecting on the hood. And stuff like that.

PS. Yes

 

[alucard0712]

As far as I remember GT5P had only 12 cars on track, but I might be wrong, played it a long time ago. And yes, I think Prologue was a lot better than the final game.
GT5P shadows aren't better on the same tracks and the same conditions. And overall shadow quality seem to differ from track to track. I remember one track on which none of the environmental shadows casted on the cars or cockpits at all.
The main problem is probably 1080p which is just too much for 256mb of VRAM. And yes, tire smoke and other particle effects are always hard to render, especially considering that the smoke in GT5 is on the same level as NVidia PhysX demos. You can see the same smoke in Mafia 2 on PC with PhysX enabled. Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiJogb-k230
I actually liked Prologue's physics better than the final, as well as windscreen wind sound at high speeds and the career structure. The menus were very advanced and good looking, with calendar and time and stuff like that. I still don't get why they wasted all these.
Technically GT5 is more advanced than FM4 in some areas, but worse in others. For example it has dynamic lighting while FM doesn't , but has ugly simple cubicmap reflections while FM has hires reflections with other cars reflecting on the hood. And stuff like that.

PS. Yes

I think you didn't remember GT5P well!
All shadows are better, reflections are better, and no pop-upping at all
Also in Prologue all tracks are perfect - and all of them casting shadows properly! Also loading times are like 1/3 of full game.
I think whole problem is a PD's small team. To realize their goals at their vision thy need double or triple that amount.

P.S: Oh sorry for big off-topic, I'm completely forgot that its Forza forum.

 

[OGL]

Well, from what I've heard PD has 150 employees, T10 has about 300 and uses outsource.
I actually would like to see GT5 Prologue but like 5-10 times bigger, I see no need for damage or time transition. But I guess that's not Kaz's vision. Just like some guy above I can say that I've played GT5P more than GT5. And yes, loadings in GTP were like 5 seconds and not half an hour. As I've said I spent more time staring at the GT logo than on the track in GT5.

 

[OGL]

Just see the difference for yourself.

 

[theotherspongey]

Both of you, take your bickering to the FM vs. GT thread.

 

[alucard0712]

Both of you, take your bickering to the FM vs. GT thread.

It's now more GT5 vs GT5P...

 

[theotherspongey]

It's now more GT5 vs GT5P...

Then take it to any forum in Gran Turismo 5

 

[Spagetti69]

Does that confirm the Jay Leno tank car?

The line about only 1 existing and it's in his garage?

If true, and really I'm not bothered by its inclusion or not.

What does excite me is the first hint at an open wheeler car.

Well spotted.

 

[theotherspongey]

If true, and really I'm not bothered by its inclusion or not.

What does excite me is the first hint at an open wheeler car.

Well spotted.

?

There were open wheeled cars in Forza 3.

 

[McLaren]

Does that confirm the Jay Leno tank car?

The line about only 1 existing and it's in his garage?

The problem there is that Jay has several 1-off cars in his garage. It could be the tank car, or the EcoJet, or anything really.

 

[Spagetti69]

?

There were open wheeled cars in Forza 3.

Remind me please.

 

[Jamezinho]

?

There were open wheeled cars in Forza 3.

Have a look at the definition of an open-wheeled car. Forza 3 doesn't have any.

The LMP cars, Radical etc....are not open-wheeled cars if that's what you're thinking.

 

[theotherspongey]

So an open wheeled car is an F1 car?

*confused*

 

[Jamezinho]

So an open wheeled car is an F1 car?

*confused*

It's an example of one, yes. Indy car, formula 2 & 3, A1GP (when it was going) are other examples.

The wheels are literally open and away from the car body, i.e. not surrounded by bodywork.

 

[tribolik]

A caterham is an openwheeler... but what most people consider to be open wheeled cars are the Formula cars - F1 - F3 - F ford, Indy, A1GP, etc...

EDIT: Damn someone beat me to it...

 

[Spagetti69]

Ariel atom too.

What car are you on about spongey?

Edit. Is there a definitive list of Jay Lenos individual cars then? Would be nice to speculate.

 

[tribolik]

Ariel atom too.

What car are you on about spongey?

Yes that could be the one besides the Caterham...

 

[theotherspongey]

Ariel atom too.

What car are you on about spongey?

Edit. Is there a definitive list of Jay Lenos individual cars then? Would be nice to speculate.

I was thinking if a Ferrari racecar...Forgot the name.

 

[Jamezinho]

Turn10 could just take the idea from GT5 and create their own generic 'Formula Forza' car, loosely based on an Indy car or F1 car.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Turn10 could just take the idea from GT5 and create their own generic 'Formula Forza' car, loosely based on an Indy car or F1 car.

Please no. I will play F1 2010/11 if I want to play F1.

 

[SuperShouden]

If true, and really I'm not bothered by its inclusion or not.

What does excite me is the first hint at an open wheeler car.

Well spotted.

I bothers me slightly, but more for the same reason the New York track bothers me: It's something T10 saw in GT and said, "hey, let's do that." However, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

But, it will be interesting to see if they call it the Tank Car or the Blastaline Special.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I bothers me slightly, but more for the same reason the New York track bothers me: It's something T10 saw in GT and said, "hey, let's do that." However, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

But, it will be interesting to see if they call it the Tank Car or the Blastaline Special.

Yeah because making an open wheel car is totally unique in a racing game....so is a city track.... GT5....the pioneer of ideas.

 

[tribolik]

As long as they copy and improove it that is great... hell thats what we have been doing since someone invented the wheel... what is sad is that PD cant seem to even copy their own ideas right anymore...

 

[Jamezinho]

Please no. I will play F1 2010/11 if I want to play F1.

What's the harm though? Some open-wheelers would be a great addition.

I can race road and GT cars in GT5 or Shift 2, so by your logic I shouldn't be interested in Forza 4?

 

[Vaxxtx]

What's the harm though? Some open-wheelers would be a great addition.

I can race road and GT cars in GT5 or Shift 2, so by your logic I shouldn't be interested in Forza 4?

No harm I guess. If done right it would be good. Just dont want crap tacked on, when a game dedicated to F1 is right around the corner.

I am just hoping they dont try to cram so much in it turns out like GT5's 1/2 arsed rally, F1, NASCAR thing. You know?

 

[Spagetti69]

I bothers me slightly, but more for the same reason the New York track bothers me: It's something T10 saw in GT and said, "hey, let's do that." However, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

OMG. Give it up will you. Apparently Jay has lots of unique cars so it might not be Sonys car lol.

Anyway this is a cockpit version.

 

[SuperShouden]

Yeah because making an open wheel car is totally unique in a racing game....so is a city track.... GT5....the pioneer of ideas.

Right 'cause T10 just HAD to use the same New York streets as PD 'cause the city's so small. And if they use the Tank Car and they'll just HAVE to call it the Jay Leno Tank Car because that's it's actual name.


EDIT: In all fairness, I hope it ISN'T the Blastaline. There are a LOT of ultra rare cars in Jay's Garage. I do hope that they only mention Jay's name in the description of the car, as well. I like T10 and I don't like it when they copy something from another game because they have greater talent than that. I mean...they essentially took the lighting effects from Wall*E and Cars and put it into the game. That's a brilliant idea. But, when they do stuff like take PD's New York track and slightly modify it, it feels more like they're shorting themselves. I don't like it.