2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Yes, claimed, yet is there anyone who can verify that?

is this good enough? 8:01



so what was that about an r33 gtr doing under 8 mins?

Of course, I'm sure what Greycap said didn't even register to you, so it makes little difference regardless.

no it did register but again doesnt add up.if its doing that much 'ring miles how often is the driver going to make a mistake? no often hence i doubt the 7:38 lap,and as i said when it did the 7:55 lap it was being chased by a 997 turbo so i would suspect it was being driven on its very limits.

 

[Tornado]

no it did register but again doesnt add up.if its doing that much 'ring miles how often is the driver going to make a mistake?

In a 100 some turn track? I wouldn't be surprised if professional race car drivers make a few mistakes per lap on the track. I can't go a single lap in GT4 without making a mistake somewhere, and I'm sure screwing around with a Dual Shock is far easier than actually hustling a car about there. The fact that it was done in tandem with a 997 Turbo means nothing, and probably contributed to mistakes more than anything.

 

[McLaren]

is this good enough? 8:01



so what was that about an r33 gtr doing under 8 mins?

I was talking about verifying that it was modified....

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

In a 100 some turn track? I wouldn't be surprised if professional race car drivers make a few mistakes per lap on the track. I can't go a single lap in GT4 without making a mistake somewhere, and I'm sure screwing around with a Dual Shock is far easier than actually hustling a car about there.

i seriously disagree with that.On a really car you can steer more accurate and place the car better than with a dual shock.in fact when i had a go at daan's G25 while playing GTLegends i kept getting "cut track" warnings because i wasnt used to how accurate the steering was after having used controllers for years.

I was talking about verifying that it was modified....

i clearly said that i read somewhere several years ago that it had been modified and couldnt remember where i read it and if you choice not to believe me then that was up to you

 

[Tornado]

i seriously disagree with that.On a really car you can steer more accurate and place the car better than with a dual shock.in fact when i had a go at daan's G25 while playing GTLegends i kept getting "cut track" warnings because i wasnt used to how accurate the steering was after having used controllers for years.

So you are telling me that it is easier to drive a car in real life through death defying turns at ridiculous speeds than it is to sit on your ass in front of a TV because of modulation? What the hell are you on about? I know it is easier to modulate a real car than it is a car with a game controller. That doesn't mean it is anywhere as easy to drive a real car (let alone drive one fast) as it is to drive a simulated car.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

So you are telling me that it is easier to drive a car in real life through death defying turns at ridiculous speeds than it is to sit on your ass in front of a TV because of modulation? What the hell are you on about? I know it is easier to modulate a real car than it is a car with a game controller. That doesn't mean it is anywhere as easy to drive a real car (let alone drive one fast) as it is to drive a simulated car.

no i did not say that i was simply saying that just because you cant get a perfect lap with your controller doesnt mean a driver cant get a perfect lap as you could place a car alot better than you can with a controller.

 

[Tornado]

Except it very much does mean that. I know I'm not a perfect GT4 driver, with wheel or not, but I know that it is far easier to get perfect laps in GT4 than it is in real life. In fact, even good simulations suffer from being far easier to go fast in them than in real life. And that is pretty much fact. And I'm sorry, but regardless, it isn't hard to imagine one making a mistake or two every single lap you do on the 'Ring. It is far harder to imagine a perfect lap at the track than it is to imagine one with a few mistakes, real life or not.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Except it very much does mean that. I know I'm not a perfect GT4 driver, with wheel or not, but I know that it is far easier to go fast in GT4 than it is to go fast in real life. In fact, even good simulations suffer from being far easier to go fast in them than in real life. And that is pretty much fact.

that is true but why did you bring up the subject of a video game and real life?

 

[Tornado]

I was merely using an example. As it is pretty much impossible to do perfect laps at the 'Ring in games, the fact that you even suggest that it may be possible in real life is laughable.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I was merely using an example. As it is pretty much impossible to do perfect laps at the 'Ring in games, the fact that you even suggest that it may be possible in real life is laughable.

but it is possible,just because you cant doesnt mean someone else cant.

 

[Tornado]

Are you kidding me? 100 turns! 13.4 miles! Juan Manuel Fangio, perhaps the greatest Formula 1 driver ever, improved his lap time by 30 seconds simply by improving his lap. And I can guarantee none of those laps were perfect, either. A perfect Nurburgring lap is impossible, I contend, simply because of the scope of the track. Someone will always overshoot at least one of the corners, or brake too late, or take too wide of a line at least once during a lap. The fact that I am not the greatest driver in the world is irrelevant, because I'm sure even the true greatest, most seasoned driver in the world could not do a perfect lap at the 'Ring.
For all you know, the 7:38 was the best lap the car has performed simply because of the lack of mistakes made compared to other laps. Even the 911 GT2 7:29 lap was riddled with mistakes, such as nearly crashing into the Audi at 180MPH. The 911 Turbo 7:43 lap could be the same way.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Are you kidding me? 100 turns! 13.4 miles! Juan Manuel Fangio, perhaps the greatest Formula 1 driver ever, improved his lap time by 30 seconds simply by improving his lap. And I can guarantee none of those laps were perfect, either. A perfect Nurburgring lap is impossible, I contend, simply because of the scope of the track. Someone will always overshoot at least one of the corners, or brake too late, or take too wide of a line at least once during a lap. The fact that I am not the greatest driver in the world is irrelevant, because I'm sure even the true greatest, most seasoned driver in the world could not do a perfect lap at the 'Ring.
For all you know, the 7:38 was the best lap the car has performed simply because of the lack of mistakes made compared to other laps. Even the 911 GT2 7:29 lap was riddled with mistakes, such as nearly crashing into the Audi at 180MPH. The 911 Turbo 7:43 lap could be the same way.

but again you have no proof of that just your ashuming because the track is so long it would be impossible to do a perfect lap.people like sabine and walter do thousands of laps at the 'ring and no doubt they know the track better than anyone else wouldnt you say it is possible that they could knock off a few perfect laps in their time?

 

[Tornado]

No, because by the time they are done with a lap a car could be handling drastically different to how it was when they started the lap. Tire wear, brake fade, fuel usage, weather conditions different in one part of the track from the other and driver fatigue could all contribute to ruining a lap, even if we were to assume it was going to be perfect before these things became a factor. I'm sure there are tracks where you could do perfect laps, but the Nurburgring is not one of them.
And, regardless, a driver's best lap on any track is not necessarily a perfect lap. The world record lap on a track may not be a perfect lap. And this is especially true on a track as punishing, difficult and long as the Nurburgring.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I'm sure there are tracks where you could do perfect laps, but the Nurburgring is not one of them.

and you have proof of this?

 

[Tornado]

Yes, simply because of the car this thread is about. They have done a 7:38, and the test driver admits that there is room for improvement. Regardless of whether the car was stock or not, there is always room for improvement. In this case, the improvement would probably some from better track conditions.
What I cannot prove, however, is that there are tracks that there can be perfect laps on, because, there is always room for improvement. Be it because of better track conditions, a better car or even the driver feeling better, there is always room for improvement. Every time there is a turn, there is a margin of error. The more turns there are, the more the margin of error increases. The difference in how much taht margin of error is depends on outside forces. That is simply human nature, to tell you the truth.

But seriously, this is transcending car discussion and getting philosophical, so what have you.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Yes, simply because of the car this thread is about. They have done a 7:38, and the test driver admits that there is room for improvement.

the test driver also admitted it was on cut slicks why dont you believe that?

 

[McLaren]

i clearly said that i read somewhere several years ago that it had been modified and couldnt remember where i read it and if you choice not to believe me then that was up to you

Oh, so you demand that I provide proof, and yet, you're free to say, "I read it somewhere on the internet".

Double-Standards...got to love them.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Oh, so you demand that I provide proof, and yet, you're free to say, "I read it somewhere on the internet".

Double-Standards...got to love them.

no double standards at all,people were telling me to prove my information yet when they posted stuff they didnt provide proof so why cant i do that to them? you posted information without proof now your telling me to provide proof.

as you said double standards......got to love them.

 

[Tornado]

the test driver also admitted it was on cut slicks why dont you believe that?

Because he also said that it wasn't on cut slicks. And, hilariously enough, logic dictates that dry has more grip than wet.

 

[McLaren]

no double standards at all,people were telling me to prove my information yet when they posted stuff they didnt provide proof so why cant i do that to them? you posted information without proof now your telling me to provide proof.

as you said double standards......got to love them.

I told you to go do it yourself, and even told you where & how.

That's far more than what you've done.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Because he also said that it wasn't on cut slicks. And, hilariously enough, logic dictates that dry has more grip than wet.

but he is clearly quote first hand in saying it was on cut slicks,whereas your information was "leaked" hence it isnt clear thats what he said.In it he says the track was damp,could be the reason for cut slicks rather than full slicks to stop the car aquaplaning.if you believe you interpretate him saying that the 7:38 was done on the street tyres and that they could do 7:30 on slicks then again that doesnt add up as slicks would account for alot more than 8 seconds.

and if you are going what Juan Manuel Fangio said,im sorry but how many years ago was that? things have moved on a fair bit since then.i would be pretty confident that a driver in the same track in the same car doing countless laps with be pretty consistant(as nissan said consistantly just under 8 minutes.

I told you to go do it yourself, and even told you where & how.

That's far more than what you've done.

no i did tell you where you could find the information.

 

[Tornado]

but he is clearly quote first hand in saying it was on cut slicks,whereas your information was "leaked" hence it isnt clear thats what he said.

Leaked or not, it is pretty obvious that he said the car would be faster if it was on slicks. Was your quote an official press release, by the way?

In it he says the track was damp,could be the reason for cut slicks rather than full slicks to stop the car aquaplaning.

Except he said he wasn't on cut slicks. And a damp track usually doesn't lead to aquaplaning.

if you believe you interpretate him saying that the 7:38 was done on the street tyres and that they could do 7:30 on slicks then again that doesnt add up as slicks would account for alot more than 8 seconds.

Actually, he said cut slicks, which have much less grip than straight slicks. Furthermore, he said under 7:30, which can be anything from 7:29 to 7:20 (neither of which is that much at the Nurburgring).
And, for the third time: Why would this far more powerful, much more balanced and tired, cunning edge of technology car have an identical time to a car that came out in 1989 if both were using slicks? You haven't really touched upon that yet.

and if you are going what Juan Manuel Fangio said,im sorry but how many years ago was that? things have moved on a fair bit since then.

What the hell does the date have to do with ability to be consistent? All time does is make things consistently faster. It doesn't increase consistency. Are you just grasping at whatever comes to you no matter how little sense it makes?

i would be pretty confident that a driver in the same track in the same car doing countless laps with be pretty consistant(as nissan said consistantly just under 8 minutes.

I'm sure they would. That doesn't mean they would be fast, or getting near records each lap. Oh, and once again: Nissan saying "consistently just under 8 minutes" means "usually just under 8 minutes." It does not mean "every time is just under 8 minutes," nor does it mean "there are no faster times than just under 8 minutes." It simply means "not every single time was 7:38, just the best. They were usually closer to 8 minutes."

no i did tell you where you could find the information.

Typing www.google.com is not exactly telling someone how to get something.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Leaked or not, it is pretty obvious that he said the car would be faster if it was on slicks. Was your quote an official press release, by the way?

was yours? no it wasnt. mines was from an interview with the test driver at the motorshow which i would prefer to believe rather than leaked information which you have no way of verifying.

Actually, he said cut slicks, which have much less grip than straight slicks. Furthermore, he said under 7:30, which can be anything from 7:29 to 7:20 (neither of which is that much at the Nurburgring).
And, for the third time: Why would this far more powerful, much more balanced and tired, cunning edge of technology car have an identical time to a car that came out in 1989 if both were using slicks? You haven't really touched upon that yet.

because im talking about this car not that one? for all i and you know that could have been on full slicks rather than cuts and as you said more grip therefore faster and a few other things done to it,but again i cant prove that it did but again you cant prove that it didnt.

Except he said he wasn't on cut slicks. And a damp track usually doesn't lead to aquaplaning.

Im sure and looking at the video it was very damp/wet in a few places which would no doubt cause it to aquaplane if it was on full slicks.

why are you so deadset on drying to say im lieing and should believe that this car can do 7:38 "off the showroom floor".

cant you see something might not add up about the time,as i said during testing the drivers are getting in the 7:50's,even as you say they could make mistakes,driven several thousand miles off the track would lead me to believe that the driver would know his way around the track pretty well and how the car can handle it.Then theres also the fact that its marketed as a "supercar killer" and has alot of hype about the car and then a couple of weeks before its launched it does the 'ring in 7:38 which would then show it to be faster around a track than a LP640,slr,997 turbo,z06,ford gt etc(theres your marketing ploy).Just because skylines might appear to be unbeatable in BMI doesnt mean they are in the real world.In fact if you watch the BMI videos(not the nurburgring ones but others) the Japanese cars always seem to be wearing slightly more stickier rubber than standard.

 

[Leonidae]

BMI is not the "bible of automotive world", they're just as biased as any other motorshow. But you have to remember the GT-R's credentials that are in motorsports, and in that area it has almost as long history as Corvette.

And those cars that you mentioned, they're not that much lighter or more powerful than the GT-R, and if the laps were done with TCS, ABS and all, they might not accurately represent what the car is able to do.

And then, Nissan had 2 drivers for the GT-R, the one who deals on the faster laps and has professional racing experience, and then the more casual driver, who is representing the average buyer of GT-R. first one says also that lower 7'3x.xxx times are possible on dry track, and I'm sure that they will prove it IF the weather allows. And I'm sure that they will do their best to prove the lap as legitimate.

it's kinda funny though, first you guys were whining that GT-R did shorter lap than other cars, and now you guys try desperately prove that the lap was done on slicks because some premium brands with pushrods and rear-engined design are beaten by a large margin..

 

[Joey D]

There might be a new lightweight V version on the way as soon as 2010.

Nissan is finally releasing the GT-R fun to the US market next summer, and the Franco-Japanese automaker has no intentions of sticking with only one model. We've heard rumors about a lightweight V-Spec GT-R for a while, and Nissan officials aren't even denying it. Carbon fiber and light-weight aluminum will take a vehicle that has posted a 911 Turbo-beating 7:38 lap at the 'Ring and kick it up a notch. Save 200 lbs. on a 480 HP ball of hell-fire, and an already explosive sports car can turn in some of the best clock times of its day.

While $68,000 will net you a super Nissan that challenges the likes of Porsche, a V-Spec edition will surely cost you quite a bit more. Something tells us there will be plenty of buyers waiting in line with their check books in hand, so Mr. Ghosn and company shouldn't spend much time worrying if they'll attracting enough customers.

 

[YSSMAN]

it's kinda funny though, first you guys were whining that GT-R did shorter lap than other cars, and now you guys try desperately prove that the lap was done on slicks because some premium brands with pushrods and rear-engined design are beaten by a large margin..

Uh, whos the one complaining again? All I've said is that the lap seems a fair bit too quick, but yes I am happy to see the GT2 and likely the ZR-1 putting the GT-R back in its place.

Which reminds me; Has anyone ran the updated (ie 600 BHP) SRT-10 Coupe at the 'Ring yet?

 

[forza2.0]

Because PWR is everything amirite guys?

Rich coming from the guy who makes such a great emphasis on weight distribution, claiming thats one of the main reasons why the GTR is posting (misleading) porsche beating laptimes.

News flash being that some of the fastest cars in the world have a weight distribution that is all over the place.

P.S

I cant belive some of you guys actually believe that this car is faster than a pagani zonda F

 

[///M-Spec]

You guys should take it easy with the name calling. It would be a shame if this thread had to be locked because some of you can't learn to disagree without resorting to personal attacks.

Debate is fine. Controversy is fine. Making this issue personal is not fine. Ease up a little on the animosity, gentlemen.

it's kinda funny though, first you guys were whining that GT-R did shorter lap than other cars, <SNIP>

Hold on a second. Who was whining?


M

 

[kikie]

I'm interrupting this discussion but I'm curious, which car would you choose?

* Aston Martin V8 Vantage

or

* Nissan GT-R

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd take the Aston Martin without question. Certainly, its more expensive, probably more prone to braking, and definitely a league or so slower, but my God the beauty is unmatched in the segment. The thought of waking up everyday to see that sitting in my driveway, starting it up with the bark of that V8, and pulling out with the crisp shifts of the manual lever all make everything right in the world.