2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[Joey D]

I would also dispute that the ACR Viper gives the finger to technology as Joey claimed, just because it doesn't use a lot of electronics does not mean its a basic design. Technological excellence in automotive design goes well beyond the electronic, material components, design and construction methods can all be advanced without the use of 'electronics. It certainly doesn't give the finger to technology at all. Same thing always make me laugh about NASCAR, they love to portray the sport as being 'low-tech', actually take the time to look into what make a good oval car and its a scary amount of very advanced design and engineering.

Maybe I should have worded it differently. It gives the finger to modern automotive technology that many other supercars use now-a-days. The engine is enormous, the gear box is not one of those fancy new flappy paddle things, downforce comes from the old school big spoiler, and there is no traction or stability control. It's just pure power in a stripped out car, nothing fancy in pure old school form.

It's the polar opposite of the GT-R which is the crown jewel of modern automotive technology with every gizmo you can think of put into one car. Neither is right, neither is wrong, they are just different from one another. I just tend to love the ACR more because it is so quick with nothing really all that amazing or special equipped on it.

 

[nissan tuner]

top gear power lap



1:19.7 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

It's not just power-weight, y'know.... and due to the lesser grip of the Eagle F1s... maybe the ZR1 will fix that... who knows.

That's one thing that bothers me about GM at the moment. They know that they're compromising some of the performance of the car by choosing the Goodyear Eagle F1 run-flats, but they won't change it. They're sticking PS2s on the CTS-V and ZR1, so why not the Z06? It makes me wonder if they've tried it, and in the end, its starts creeping up on the ZR1 a bit too much...

 

[Tornado]

Considering it probably handles better than the ZR1, that wouldn't surprise me.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Not if you read why. The test driver stated that the Corvette's rear end got squiggly at over 150 mph. Granted, that doesn't mean it can't go faster... just that you can't be sure that it's safe to do so.

He also said the Aston was the scariest and he barely beat the Corvette in that.

 

[niky]

Barely... but apparently the suspension is well-sorted.

---

RE: tires: Z06: well, the problem is re-engineering. They'd have to adapt the suspension of the Z06 for the new tires. Which means reworking the rear spring and shocks, probably. Besides... having lower-spec tires that actually work in the rain and probably cost less fits the Z06's "performance bargain" ethos better.

 

[YSSMAN]

Right, but much like the $8000 optional interior, I'll pay for it when its a functional add on that does well for the car. I think GM would find that most people who buy a Z06 would likely opt for the PS2s if they were an option, as I'm quite sure, a lot of people are likely switching the tires out after receiving the car.

 

[wrcsti]

Barely... but apparently the suspension is well-sorted.

---

RE: tires: Z06: well, the problem is re-engineering. They'd have to adapt the suspension of the Z06 for the new tires. Which means reworking the rear spring and shocks, probably. Besides... having lower-spec tires that actually work in the rain and probably cost less fits the Z06's "performance bargain" ethos better.

If I remember correctly, the Z06 does no have springs on the rear but rather leaf springs. I may be wrong though.

 

[Leonidae]

composite leaf spring. one in the front, one in the rear. *goes to wash his mouth*

 

[buickgnx88]

If I remember correctly, the Z06 does no have springs on the rear but rather leaf springs. I may be wrong though.

Isn't a leaf spring a spring?

 

[YSSMAN]

If I remember correctly, the Z06 does no have springs on the rear but rather leaf springs. I may be wrong though.

It uses a leaf-spring system, but it is not what you would find on your average Silverado...

As you can see the leaf spring is mounted horizontally, not longitudinally (like in a truck). The leaf spring operates by giving resistance a wishbone setup in the front and back, acting like a coil spring, just in a very different manner. There is a good Wiki page for the whole deal there, but the basic thing you need to know is that people make it out to be much more worse than it actually is.

What you need to know:

- The Corvette setup is a time-tested deal, and it will likely remain for some time
- Its more complex than you think
- It weighs less than a comparable coil setup
- It is also more durable than a coil setup

I'm not willing to defend it up and down, every which way (even as a Corvette fan, I know there are problems with it), but I don't think its as big of a hicup that other car people make it out to be.

 

[Tornado]

I'm confused about the C4 rear suspension and its differences from the C5 rear suspension.

 

[niky]

If I remember correctly, the Z06 does no have springs on the rear but rather leaf springs. I may be wrong though.

Note, I did say spring singular... not springs plural:

Barely... but apparently the suspension is well-sorted.

---

RE: tires: Z06: well, the problem is re-engineering. They'd have to adapt the suspension of the Z06 for the new tires. Which means reworking the rear spring and shocks, probably. Besides... having lower-spec tires that actually work in the rain and probably cost less fits the Z06's "performance bargain" ethos better.

The only difficulty with tuning the leaf-spring is in the fact that its transverse layout means that it serves both the function of a spring and an anti-roll bar, which may explain some of the skittish tendencies that some testers have talked about, but there are probably workarounds to this in the bushings used and in geometry design. Not knowing more about the actual range of movement there, I can theorize that there are probably limits to the changes in camber and toe you can dial in with the spring in its current position.

But then, many more conventional suspensions have the same limitations.

GM prides itself on being different. They're using "leaf-springs" and "overhead valves" where other manufacturers have moved on to different, more common solutions for the same problem. But like Scaff says about the Viper... don't let that fool you into thinking these things are crude. There's a lot more high-tech involved in those two systems than in some other sports cars using more "modern" hardware like DOHC and coil springs.

---

RE: differences of C4 and C5: off the top of my head, I think the main difference is in the use of the spring as an anti-roll bar... but I don't know if that was implemented in the change from C4-C5 or from C3-C4. (looks it up) Okay... it was from C4-C5.

Basically, the current mounting, like I've said, gives the spring the same function as an anti-roll bar... but a very flexible one, at that... which is why you can see a traditional anti-roll bar opposite the spring in that picture.

 

[YSSMAN]

Details about the 2010 Nissan GT-R Spec V, the GT-R's err "performance variant," have leaked out. The new, Mega-Godzilla will get 520 HP, lose 200 pounds, and lap the 'ring faster than the 2009 Corvette ZR1, putting it firmly in Porsche 911 GT2 territory. How fast?

Rumors peg the Nurburgring lap time at a scarcely comprehendable 7:25. That's epically quick, and clearly requires some sacrifice in interior appointments. In order to drop the weight, Nissan ditched the GT-R's rear seats, bringing the car down to a still-portly 3,615 lb. The maximum power output of 520 HP is now achieved at 6,500 RPM, while the 440 ft-lb of torque peaks all the way from 3,200-5,200 RPM. In the best Q-ship fashion, the Spec-V looks near identical to the regular GT-R and will allegedly set you back around $130,000, nearly double the GT-R's $69,850 price tag.

Hmmmm. I'd be interested in the math on this as well. Nevertheless, happy hunting Nissan!

 

[Greycap]

I wouldn't doubt it being possible. They only need four seconds off the 7'29 lap and the power increase combined with the weight loss, not to mention other technical improvements, should easily give such a difference. It will probably come from accelerations alone, the better braking and handling characteristics are a bonus on top of that.

 

[Tornado]

I wonder what else they did, as I would be surprised if the rear seats alone lost all that weight.

 

[xXSilencerXx]

If this is true it's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of, why build the car if you can't drive it?

http://www.fquick.com/blog/2047#comments

Figured I'd post it since most you know way more about this thing and whether or not this is true.

 

[Tornado]

I highly doubt using the launch control will void your warranty (though there may be a statute of limitations on it), and I have no doubts that racing it will. Its standard automobile jargon, and in no way is specific to Nissan.

 

[neanderthal]

Pretty std for all performance cars.
Didnt Mitsubishi or Subaru give a scca membership with thier car, but also state that racing would void the warranty

 

[niky]

Hoonery voids most warranties. You can look up BMW M3 and "launch control" in any BMW enthusiast forums, and you'll find that BMW has an ECU code that counts the number of times you "launch" the car. Launch it a certain number of times and your warranty is void.

No mass-market manufacturer will offer warranty for raced cars... it's financial suicide. For race-specific items and vehicles, warranties are often for operating hours... not for thousands of miles. Meaning if your racing engine blows up in less than 30 hours (or less... or much less), you get a new one free... but fat luck trying to drive it on the street for a thousand miles.

Reading the booklet page... Meh, old news... Of course, they have to prove that such acts caused the damage or parts failure... and Nissan does offer Performance Optimization... and, as mentioned a few hundred pages back, Nissan does offer a service to re-warranty your car after every track use... or was planning to. Don't know what happened to it.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

http://www.haltech.com/r35gtr.htm

Haltech R35 GTR Runs 11.1 @ 124mph

Haltech's Nissan R35 GTR runs an 11.1 @ 124mph down the 1/4 mile at the Compak Attak event at Sydney's WSID raceway
This is our 100% stock R35 GTR in full trim and a full tank of pump fuel - the only modification made was the addition of the Haltech ECU, the full stock exhaust is still in place

 

[Rotary Junkie]

http://www.haltech.com/r35gtr.htm

Haltech R35 GTR Runs 11.1 @ 124mph

Haltech's Nissan R35 GTR runs an 11.1 @ 124mph down the 1/4 mile at the Compak Attak event at Sydney's WSID raceway
This is our 100% stock R35 GTR in full trim and a full tank of pump fuel - the only modification made was the addition of the Haltech ECU, the full stock exhaust is still in place

Then it's NOT STOCK, now is it?

 

[Greycap]

Pretty much goes to show how the V-Spec will perform... 10.xxx isn't out of question by any means if a simple ECU change did that.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Pretty much goes to show how the V-Spec will perform... 10.xxx isn't out of question by any means if a simple ECU change did that.

ECU changes on turbo cars generally include more boost. A chipped V-Spec on drag radials all around would doubtlessly do 9s, but I think Nissan is going to want to keep it in the very low 11s stock.That said, even THEN it's not legal to be run at any drag strip in the US. 11s means a 6-point rollbar minimum, 10s means an 8-point, and 9s means a full 'cage.

 

[Leonidae]

that's up to the owner, if he wants to turn it into straight line monster.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

that's up to the owner, if he wants to turn it into straight line monster.

The issue is that taking your BONE STOCK car to the dragstrip and running it once will get you booted off the track... Aaand that's no good. Then again, '03-'04 Mustang Cobra Convertible owners faced the same issue (too quick for no rollbar in a 'vert)

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Doesn't the Z06 do 11s, and for that one guy who had perfect conditions that time, with stock tyres and everything, a 10.9 or something? Obviously those guys didn't have roll cages.

 

[Leonidae]

mmhmm.. and naturally, all chevy fanbois say that every Z06 can do it.. I agree, but there's no way in hell that every driver could do it. I don't care if it can do 200mph plus in the straight line. I like my twisties better.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

mmhmm.. and naturally, all chevy fanbois say that every Z06 can do it.. I agree, but there's no way in hell that every driver could do it. I don't care if it can do 200mph plus in the straight line. I like my twisties better.

No way, I bet that one time will never be repeated in history by a standard Z06 again. He literally had the perfect conditions, and must have been an awesome drag racer.
I admit I like straight line balls. Seat of the pants G's when you open the taps are fun, get a car that can corner too well though, and it can be a stuggle to remain upright. Not that that's a bad thing at all. Just make sure you have really good bucket seats.

 

[niky]

Well... "rechipping" itself covers a wide range of work... from a simple map-tweak on the stock boost maps or including added boost.

Despite what I've said about the numbers being "just right", I'll bet Nissan has sandbagged the engine for durability and warranty issues (also, to ensure that they can charge extra for the V-Spec)... so I don't doubt that you could probably eke a ton of power extra on the stock fuel maps... maybe even with something as simple as removing a high-rpm boost limiter and allowing the boost to stay high throughout the rev-range.

Who knows? Maybe the natural "uncorked" power of the engine is closer to 550 hp than 473.