2011 Driver Transfer Market
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
- 300 comments
- 28,982 views
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I guess his GP2 record means nothing, eh?
Bruno isn't terrible, he isn't Ayrton either. He's beaten everyone except Klien and Klien isn't a terrible driver....Klien has been his most experienced and highest rated teammate. Yamamoto is a useless pay driver, Chandhok has never been the measure of Bruno (though Chandhok is decent). Being beaten by Klien is not a bad thing. Klien is a good driver.
I don't believe in the conspiracy theories, I simply think Bruno had a bad weekend at Singapore. He will no doubt dominate Yamamoto again for the remaining races.
I also agree with Sureboss' sentiments in that its difficult to really judge him in this machinery. And please don't bring up the Toleman example, as the Toleman wasn't a bad car...sure it wasn't the best but it wasn't the same era and it was good enough for Ayrton to take it places. People like to talk about "dragging that dog of a car" but the fact of that matter is no driver can succeed on skill alone, the car is always part of the equation and therefore the Toleman was at least decent. There is no denying that Ayrton over-drove it but its not the same as the Hispania versus the 2010 season.
Also keep in mind the Hispania has had no upgrades bar the wing mirrors being changed all year...have you even watched an onboard for a Hispania driver? Seems more amazing they can even finish races with such wild setups!
- 15,494
- UK
Quite, the Lotus and Virgin don't seem too bad to drive, they just look slow generally, they never look that unstable compared with the Hispania. I cringe whenever I see the HRT drivers on the brakes, it must be horriible to drive.
I think there is an element of the Senna name being a help, not for his drive, but throughout Bruno's career. But he's clearly got talent and as Ardius points out a good record in the feeder series. The marketing factor exists in any driver decision, particularly at the back-end of the grid, the publicity factor on Senna at the start was good for the team. But I don't think any driver in recent F1 has got to the sport on driving standard/mental qualities alone. That's the sport Bernie has created, it's responsible for it's expansion, which is good for everyone.
Their progress concerns me though, the management seems to be disorganised, the driver decisions seem ad hoc. I don't have much confidence they'll exist next year in the sport.
I think there is an element of the Senna name being a help, not for his drive, but throughout Bruno's career. But he's clearly got talent and as Ardius points out a good record in the feeder series. The marketing factor exists in any driver decision, particularly at the back-end of the grid, the publicity factor on Senna at the start was good for the team. But I don't think any driver in recent F1 has got to the sport on driving standard/mental qualities alone. That's the sport Bernie has created, it's responsible for it's expansion, which is good for everyone.
Their progress concerns me though, the management seems to be disorganised, the driver decisions seem ad hoc. I don't have much confidence they'll exist next year in the sport.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I only think Hispania's owners are disorganised...Colin Kolles and his crew are certainly very well organised (they effectively saved this team). Plus Geoff Willis doesn't harm matters.
Seems the popular opinion is that Hispania is a terrible, horrible organisation who make lots of mistakes, but on the contrary, I think they have been ok. Their driver swaps seem to have been due to money issues which is not surprising and totally understandable. The development of the car was ditched as soon as Dallara left and Willis came in. They have turned up to all events and run their cars fairly reliably, their drivers haven't spun or made a nuisance of themselves as backmarkers.
I would easily commend HRT up there with Virgin and Lotus, they have done a good job all things considered. Or, at the very least, I would commend Kolles and his team.
If this was 1995, Hispania would be on a level with Tyrrell, Minardi & Co - fairly respectable outfits that lack money and rely on some pay drivers. Lotus would maybe be a Jordan - a potential rising star - and Virgin would be in between, I guess a Sauber.
Seems the popular opinion is that Hispania is a terrible, horrible organisation who make lots of mistakes, but on the contrary, I think they have been ok. Their driver swaps seem to have been due to money issues which is not surprising and totally understandable. The development of the car was ditched as soon as Dallara left and Willis came in. They have turned up to all events and run their cars fairly reliably, their drivers haven't spun or made a nuisance of themselves as backmarkers.
I would easily commend HRT up there with Virgin and Lotus, they have done a good job all things considered. Or, at the very least, I would commend Kolles and his team.
If this was 1995, Hispania would be on a level with Tyrrell, Minardi & Co - fairly respectable outfits that lack money and rely on some pay drivers. Lotus would maybe be a Jordan - a potential rising star - and Virgin would be in between, I guess a Sauber.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Anes
(Banned)
- 1,735
- AnesthesiaXVII
Yeah I saw that in qualifying today. But Bruno is only 1 tenth quicker than Sakon, and Sakon isn't exactly known for being quick. Either way, for Klien to come back from a big break to outpace Bruno by more than a little then it shows Bruno doesn't have it imo. Give the seat to Klien tbh.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
One race? Don't give much do you?
Why do I get the sense that if the reverse had happened, if Senna had come in for one race and beat his teammate, you wouldn't be also saying give the seat to Senna?
Everyone needs to stop thinking about the "Senna" name and start looking at how the driver has performed over the season. He is Bruno, not Ayrton.
I guess it doesn't mean anything that it was Senna keeping pace with Glock today and Yamamoto who ended a lap down (from Virgin)?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Venezuelan sources claiming that pastor Maldonado has joined Williams for 2011, replacing Nico Hulkenberg. However, they keep quoting anonymous sources, so I'm a sceptic.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Taken from a interesting article posted at ESPNF1:
Source: http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/31079.html
- 24,644
- Anoka, MN
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Yeah, I noticed that. They keep getting more and more specific with details - the contract was signed in Caracas, it was signed in the second week of October, people from the team and PDVSA were there ... the more it becomes fleshed out, the more realistic it becomes.
If it's true, then hopefully we'll see a livery change from Williams. Their liveries have been pretty bland since the days post-Rothmans (it might have been advertising cancer sticks, but the blue, white and gold was very nice), though the 2000 Compaq livery was also good. I'm just sick of seeing dark blue cars, especially since dark blue is the most popular colour on the grid (Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Williams, BMW Sauber and Honda have all run it in some form at one point or another - 2008 was the worst year for it). That said, PDVSA seem to be like Petronas (in the BMW Sauber years) as they don't seem to be particularly anal about a team tailoring its livery to their corporate colours, which are a red logo on a white background. I've seen PDVSA liveries that have been white on blue and yellow on black in various other formulae and racing series (most notably the World Series by Renault and Indycar).
Personally, I think keeping the nose, moncoque and engine cowling dark blue, making the sidepods red and dividing it all with white would look quite nice if done properly. Kind of like the Midland F1 liveries.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's a money thing. Williams are believed to be losing four of their biggest sponsors at the end of this year. RBS have made their intentions known for some time because they've really struggled with the recession (they would have left sooner, but I reckon they'd already paid up until the end of 2010), AirAsia is - unsurprisingly - defecting to Lotus since Tony Fernandes owns/operates it, Phillips have not renewed their contract, and McGregor are on their way out as well (why, I don't know).
But that doesn't mean Maldonado is incapable. He may be a pay driver, but gone are the days of Jean-Denis Deletraz. Given the way the feeder series are structured, drivers need to have a least a little bit of talent to get into a position where a) they qualify for a Superlicence and b) they are in a position that a team would be interested in. Maldonado might be paying, but he won the GP2 title. Michael Herck could probably buy a Formula 1 drive, but he hasn't done anything.
I won't be too heartbroken to see Hulkenberg go. He's probably been the most disappointing driver of the season, short of Schumacher. After all, he won the GP2 championship first time out and he's been groomed for the Williams seat for years ... and his season has been very scrappy. He keeps skipping chicanes (he did it in Belgium, Italy and Singapore, which would be forgivable if it weren't for the fact that they're three races in succession), he's made foolhardy moves that have ended badly (trying to pass Sutil in Montreal - then getting a drive-through penalty for speeding when he pitted to repair the damage), he's consistently made bad starts (Petrov was already alongside him before the start line in Japan and the Russian started two rows back), he's ruined other peoples' races (he barged Petrov and Glock off in Singapore), frequently finishes in a lower position than the one he started in (rather than finishing in a higher or equal place ... though he's gotten better of late) and he generally just overdrives the car. He looks really angry out on the cricuit, and while that might give him a bit of fire for his qualifying laps (he's the heir apparent to Jarno Trulli's mantle of Formula 1's best one-lap driver), it just makes him look reckless and restless in the races. He really needs to calm down, or else he'll go down in history as the driver who was his own worst enemy.
If Hulkenberg leaves Williams, I have no idea where he'd go. If Renault have an opening, they'll probably go for Sutil, but I reckon they'll keep Petrov because they need the money. If Sutil leaves Force India (whether for Mercedes or Renault), then there may be a place at the team for him, but I expect Vijay Mallya would run Liuzzi alongside Paul di Resta for the sake of continuity unless Hulkenberg can convince Mallya to give the di Resta drive to him (as the team are expecting to run di Resta next year). There may be an opening at Virgin, but Virgin have reportedly made offers to Jerome d'Ambrosio and Giedo van der Garde that require sponsor packages (and as he was groomed by Williams, Hulkenberg hasn't needed any); alternatively, there may be a spot at Lotus if Jarno Trulli retires, but Trulli expects to stay. Likewise, he could replace Kovalainen if Kovalainen goes to Renault to replace Petrov, but if that were to happen, then I expect Renault woud send Petrov to Lotus. As for Hispania, there is no telling what they might do.
Right now, I think Hulkenberg has three options: 1) stay with Williams as test driver in the hopes that Maldonado is dropped after a year, 2) move to Mercedes as test driver in the hopes that Schumacher will retire at the end of 2011 or 3) attach himself to Jacques Villeneuve's Durango project and try and get into their starting line-up, a GP2 champion will be a huge boon to them.
But that doesn't mean Maldonado is incapable. He may be a pay driver, but gone are the days of Jean-Denis Deletraz. Given the way the feeder series are structured, drivers need to have a least a little bit of talent to get into a position where a) they qualify for a Superlicence and b) they are in a position that a team would be interested in. Maldonado might be paying, but he won the GP2 title. Michael Herck could probably buy a Formula 1 drive, but he hasn't done anything.
I won't be too heartbroken to see Hulkenberg go. He's probably been the most disappointing driver of the season, short of Schumacher. After all, he won the GP2 championship first time out and he's been groomed for the Williams seat for years ... and his season has been very scrappy. He keeps skipping chicanes (he did it in Belgium, Italy and Singapore, which would be forgivable if it weren't for the fact that they're three races in succession), he's made foolhardy moves that have ended badly (trying to pass Sutil in Montreal - then getting a drive-through penalty for speeding when he pitted to repair the damage), he's consistently made bad starts (Petrov was already alongside him before the start line in Japan and the Russian started two rows back), he's ruined other peoples' races (he barged Petrov and Glock off in Singapore), frequently finishes in a lower position than the one he started in (rather than finishing in a higher or equal place ... though he's gotten better of late) and he generally just overdrives the car. He looks really angry out on the cricuit, and while that might give him a bit of fire for his qualifying laps (he's the heir apparent to Jarno Trulli's mantle of Formula 1's best one-lap driver), it just makes him look reckless and restless in the races. He really needs to calm down, or else he'll go down in history as the driver who was his own worst enemy.
If Hulkenberg leaves Williams, I have no idea where he'd go. If Renault have an opening, they'll probably go for Sutil, but I reckon they'll keep Petrov because they need the money. If Sutil leaves Force India (whether for Mercedes or Renault), then there may be a place at the team for him, but I expect Vijay Mallya would run Liuzzi alongside Paul di Resta for the sake of continuity unless Hulkenberg can convince Mallya to give the di Resta drive to him (as the team are expecting to run di Resta next year). There may be an opening at Virgin, but Virgin have reportedly made offers to Jerome d'Ambrosio and Giedo van der Garde that require sponsor packages (and as he was groomed by Williams, Hulkenberg hasn't needed any); alternatively, there may be a spot at Lotus if Jarno Trulli retires, but Trulli expects to stay. Likewise, he could replace Kovalainen if Kovalainen goes to Renault to replace Petrov, but if that were to happen, then I expect Renault woud send Petrov to Lotus. As for Hispania, there is no telling what they might do.
Right now, I think Hulkenberg has three options: 1) stay with Williams as test driver in the hopes that Maldonado is dropped after a year, 2) move to Mercedes as test driver in the hopes that Schumacher will retire at the end of 2011 or 3) attach himself to Jacques Villeneuve's Durango project and try and get into their starting line-up, a GP2 champion will be a huge boon to them.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Rumours in the Interlagos paddock suggest Maldonado might join Williams next season while Hulkenberg moved to Hispania. That might not be such a bad thing since Williams is supplying Hispania with gearboxes and other rumours suggest Hispania have done a deal with Toyota for next season.
Peter
(Banned)
- 4,352
- pj-gm
- lol not happening
I'll buy the Hispania thing, rumors about them buying, or partnering with Toyota's F1 team have been floating around like helium balloons all year. But I still doubt Maldonado will drive for Williams in 2011. Test driver/reserve driver yes, replacing Nico, no.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
If Maldonado joins a team - whatever team - it will be in a full-time race drive.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=394565&FS=F1
Willi Weber confirms Hulkenberg will leave Team Willy, but he doesn't say where The Hulk might go.
Willi Weber confirms Hulkenberg will leave Team Willy, but he doesn't say where The Hulk might go.
- 4,103
- George0393 + GTP_GM
The only upgrade from Williams I can think of is as Mercedes reserve driver, replacing Schumacer when he eventually retires.
. Well, its poor luck for Williams as they finally had a decent line up.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Williams obviously didn't have a choice. The writing's clearly been on the wall for a while now - they need the money. RBS, Philips, AirAsia and McGregor are all leaving the team, so they have no major sponsors.
Besides, I haven't been too impressed with Hulkenberg this season.
Besides, I haven't been too impressed with Hulkenberg this season.
- 9,262
- Corsham
- lipming
I don't think it's a negative gesture towards him. He certainly hasn't been bad this year, and that pole position was amazing. For all we know they could see championship potential in him and realise it would be unattainable if he stayed with them. Though if that was the case, I imagined they would have dropped him because of an offer from a superior team.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, he's allegedly rejected an offer from Hispania that was brokered because of the Williams connection.
- 3,165
- yeti_c
Except for Red Bull I believe there were 3 other drivers who got pole position...
Hamilton, Alonso & Hulkenberg.
That's not bad company!?
I think it's a pretty harsh decision to be honest... I'd say (except for Kobo) he's been the best rookie.
C.
PS - can someone stick a "Formula 1" tag on this thread?
Hamilton, Alonso & Hulkenberg.
That's not bad company!?
I think it's a pretty harsh decision to be honest... I'd say (except for Kobo) he's been the best rookie.
C.
PS - can someone stick a "Formula 1" tag on this thread?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
