2015 Ford Mustang - General Discussion

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The realisation that a turbo 4 would weigh less, making the car handle better, would get better fuel economy than a thirsty V8, and would make good low end torque.



I agree. It doesn't sound all that nice to me, just ridiculous and unrefined, not to mention immature.

You say nice, I say boring. A loud exhaust that lets more rumbles and backfires through is better as far as I'm concerned. Maybe not for a large luxury sedan, but it was just an example. That same engine was used in Mustangs too (in a slightly higher state of tune).

(Unless you have an inline 4. Then it just sounds like a slightly more aggressive version of NFS Underground 2, at the beginnning before you unlock a lot of performance parts).
 
You say nice, I say boring. A loud exhaust that lets more rumbles and backfires through is better as far as I'm concerned. Maybe not for a large luxury sedan, but it was just an example. That same engine was used in Mustangs too (in a slightly higher state of tune).

(Unless you have an inline 4. Then it just sounds like a slightly more aggressive version of NFS Underground 2, at the beginnning before you unlock a lot of performance parts).



I'd call that a pretty nice noise. And that's a turbo 4.

Also, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the NFS comment, could you elaborate?
 
While this is not really relevant, not all 4 cylinders sound like what you have in you head them sounding like. If you like V8s, watch this:

 
The second Mustang got pretty decent when he really stepped on it, but you can still tell it's being artificially smoothed out.



I'd call that a pretty nice noise. And that's a turbo 4.

Also, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the NFS comment, could you elaborate?


Actually, that's exactly the kind of weed whacker noise I was referring to with my NFS comment. Straight piping that car would only make it worse.

(Also, a couple of annoying things I've seen in the "straight pipe rev" videos on YT are 1. almost no one revs their car even close to redline, which kinda defeats the point of a noise sample video, and 2. very new cars (which make up a significant portion of the videos) tend to sound too smooth and homogenized even without mufflers.
 
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As my friend had a New Edge GT with the 4.6L, and the fact I see them at the drag strip a lot, I can agree they are rumbly, but they aren't loud enough and, at least to me aggressive enough (at idle).

I think it's because of the fact I'm biased towards a pushrod engine. Despite what you usually hear on YouTube, this is what the bone stock old-school pushrod's sounded like from most muscle car brands. Personally they sound a helluva lot cooler.










That sound coming out of this:

1969%20Mustang.jpg


...is why I love Mustangs...and Ford in general. To me, it just screams aggression, power, speed, etc.







@ Eunos

I'm sorry but that sounded absolutely horrendous :yuck:
 
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While I wouldn't buy a V8 Mustang, I would consider a Turbo 4 'Stang with a manual gearbox. It would, in my eyes, be a somewhat cool car, unlike the retro V8 Mustang of today. And nobody really wants a V6 Mustang.

Yeah a turbo 4 is cool but let's not get crazy here...

Why do you not like V8s.

EDIT:

I saw why you don't care for them, though most of it I don't agree with.
 
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Also, mufflers are evil. Watch this:

As you can see, not only do the mufflers cover up that throaty V8 rumble with something significantly smoother and more sedate (seriously, how much effort went into making that car sound boring? Serious question), they also block off those tasty backfiring noises.

Somehow, somewhere, there's a muffler design that cuts volume just enough to satisfy regulations without making the car sound too smooth.

gygLxnn.gif
 
Yeah a turbo 4 is cool but let's not get crazy here...

Why do you not like V8s.

It's not that I don't like them, it's that I don't like American V8s. Not revvy enough for me, and often put in cars that don't have chassis that are as good as their foreign rivals. A turbo 4 would be lighter than a V8, improving handling. I must admit, though, an old American V8 muscle car makes a sinful sound, utterly gorgeous.
 
Somehow, somewhere, there's a muffler design that cuts volume just enough to satisfy regulations without making the car sound too smooth.

Oh you mean like the el-cheapo's I have on our truck?




Not revvy enough for me

Excuse me? 80's 5.0....



Ford 289 on the dyno



For the design of the motor, that's pretty damn high, especially taking into consideration that valve float can start to occur much earlier than that.

I must admit, though, an old American V8 muscle car makes a sinful sound, utterly gorgeous.

Part of the reason I like them so much. The other is the styling. Sure don't make 'em like that anymore :(
 
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It's not that I don't like them, it's that I don't like American V8s. Not revvy enough for me, and often put in cars that don't have chassis that are as good as their foreign rivals. A turbo 4 would be lighter than a V8, improving handling. I must admit, though, an old American V8 muscle car makes a sinful sound, utterly gorgeous.

...what? V8s come in all shape and size cars many of which America has and uses to compete with the foreign groups. I dont see anything wrong with them could you expand?
 
...what? V8s come in all shape and size cars many of which America has and uses to compete with the foreign groups. I dont see anything wrong with them could you expand?

I don't know how many hundreds of different V8's have been used in American cars...the list seemingly goes on forever.
 
but you can still tell it's being artificially smoothed out.


The smoothness of the exhaust note isn't caused solely by the exhaust. The exhaust removes irritating harmonics and buzzing.

The reason most cars don't snap, crackle, pop and burble nowadays is because they're too efficient.

Any modern car you hear with backfire, that has to be programmed in (done it myself on my car, just for kicks)... and you're not getting that bad-ass burble any more unless you gut the cats, which no manufacturer is going to do straight from the factory floor.

Yes... backfire on modern cars is artificial. The "smooth" sound isn't.
 
...what? V8s come in all shape and size cars many of which America has and uses to compete with the foreign groups. I dont see anything wrong with them could you expand?

I like high revving engines, and I like a small, light V8. 5.0 litres is about as big as I would want a V8. I don't really like a V8 that makes its power down low; I prefer something that revs to at least 7000 rpm. Also, American V8s tend to be in cars that aren't all that sporting, but are suited to cruising and straight line speed. The Dodge Challenger comes to mind. Powerful, but not much fun in the twisties. The Corvette is something of an exception for me, as it has a very good chassis, though I'd still prefer it with a high strung engine (though that would raise the cost, negating some of the Corvette's appeal).

Of course, what all this really means is that, generally speaking, I don't like American cars. Too big, heavy, soft, and inefficient. I like sports cars that are light and handle really well, but don't mind not having much power. I don't like soft suspension, nor do I like retro styling very well. I love European cars for their style, refinement, and driving experience.

I could listen to a 1967 Camaro all day, but would I buy one? Absolutely not. I'd rather own and drive an MGB, even thogh it's slower, smaller, less practical, and less reliable

Your tastes differ from mine, and I try my best to respect that, though I admit that sometimes I don't do a very good job of that, and I apologise. I've been posting what I want to see in the new Mustang. You're far more likely to buy a Mustang than I am, though, so Ford would probably be wise to listen to you, Slashfan, W&N, and others. Me? Not so much.

:cheers:
 
The smoothness of the exhaust note isn't caused solely by the exhaust. The exhaust removes irritating harmonics and buzzing.

The reason most cars don't snap, crackle, pop and burble nowadays is because they're too efficient.

Any modern car you hear with backfire, that has to be programmed in (done it myself on my car, just for kicks)... and you're not getting that bad-ass burble any more unless you gut the cats, which no manufacturer is going to do straight from the factory floor.

Yes... backfire on modern cars is artificial. The "smooth" sound isn't.

Well, if it's programmed in, doesn't that mean the air/fuel mixture and whatnot are actually being changed to achieve that effect?

If so, perhaps "artificial" isn't the right word.

As for gutting the cats, I guess that's unavoidable, since all new cars are required to have them, but once a car's out there on the road those possibilities are open, depending on where you live and how much pollution is already there. Up here in Alaska there isn't a single I/M program anywhere (Anchorage got rid of theirs last year or the year before), so once you've bought a car, you can pretty much hot-rod it as much as you want. Scott Shafiroff 632 BBC in a brand new Camaro? Yeah, it's possible (though no one's done it yet to the best of my knowledge), the smog police won't bother you because they aren't even here anymore. Oddly enough, Fairbanks is the only city with an air-quality problem, and they barely register as a town by most people's standards (some people blame wood-burning stoves for that, but I don't know how much truth that holds).
 
To put it simply, I'm not a big fan of V8s because I don't feel the need for any more than an inline-6 or boxer-6. And I don't like V6s. So like Beeblebrox237, this new turbo-4 Mustang interests me more than any other model in the nameplate's history.
 
To put it simply, I'm not a big fan of V8s because I don't feel the need for any more than an inline-6 or boxer-6. And I don't like V6s. So like Beeblebrox237, this new turbo-4 Mustang interests me more than any other model in the nameplate's history.

Even more than the ones that came with straight 6s?

:P
 
Yeah, yeah. :P It's not just about the engine. The original Mustangs are great to look at, but in terms of road manners they're just not my style. I'm sure I would enjoy one of the latest Coyote-powered models; based on what the press have said, they seem like fine cars all around. So this next Mustang with the sacrilegious 4-cylinder would be pretty nifty, I bet.
 
:lol: Those were generally crap.

For horsepower maybe but I'd argue they are some of the most reliable engines ever built. For example, the 300 I6 wasn't a Mustang engine but its roots trace back to them and people are known to put well over 500k miles on them stock with no mods.
 
I would challenge any of you who have not experienced 'the other side' to do that. Not just a drive, but a length of ownership. I've owned:

1989 Merkur XR4Ti (rwd, turbocharged, lighweight european sport sedan)
1990 Ford Mustang 5 liter (brawny middle-tech muscle car)
1994 Honda Civic tuned-B16A (9,000rpm ultra-light knife-edged feeling fwd tuner extravaganza)
1994 Acura Integra B18 (kind of a watered down but slightly more capable version of the above, not as sharp)
2003 Ford Mustang Mach 1 (new-age muscle with a beautifully broad-feeling engine)
1984 Mazda RX-7 (tradtional lightweight sports car w/ revvy engine and agile 50/50 chassis)
2012 Mazda2 (riots of fun hot micro-hatch)
1997 Jeep Cherokee (Utility on-overdrive)

In addition, I have quite a bit of experience (brother's cars) with the following:
2013 Ford Focus ST (tech-laden turbo wonder. Incredible engine, despite my lack of interest in turbochargers. Capable of astonishing things.)
1967 Mustang w/ built 306, 5 speed, and full-race suspension/brakes (savagely addictive old school fun. You have to really be on your toes to wrestle it through the corners, but it can do it, and it makes you feel like a legend when you get it right)

I don't understand how people can't appreciate variety. I understand preferences (I know I have them, see my RX-7 for further clarification) but to completely dismiss another form of sporting fun because it's different just seems a little silly. My favorite three cars of the above are the B16a civic, the RX-7, and the '67 Mustang. They are all wildly different in character, which makes them all so damn enjoyable. The RX-7 more or less rotates like a top so you guide it through corners with your fingertips. The Civic had a lot of grip and it was fwd so cornering was a very hands-on-the-wheel, point-and-shoot afair, topped off with a screaming vtec powerplant. The Mustang is an animal with imprecise steering, heavy controls (no power brakes!) and a lot of power so you have to modulate the controls feverishly. I would not hesitate to take a drive in any of those three and I regret selling the civic all the time. It was one of my favorites.
 
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If you want a force-fed Mustang, use a supercharger. Less lag, less peakiness, and spur-gear noise is one kind of whine I certainly don't mind. A roaring V8 with a supercharger screming away... man, that's musical.

A turbo-four needn't be laggy or peaky. The IHI turbo Ford used for the '87-'88 turbo-2.3 is neither, it comes on early and delivers relatively flat torque from 2k to 5k RPM. The only downside is that it's small enough that it's a bit limited in how much boost it can make (and I think it runs out of steam a little early rev-wise for a modern engine).

I'd call that a pretty nice noise. And that's a turbo 4.

Meh, a little more high-pitched than I'd like. I don't know the displacement of the engine, I'm guessing it's lower displacement? It always seems to me like it's the smaller engines that sound like weedwhackers. The old-school Ford 2.3 is better.

Here's some in-car video for a turbo 2.3 that picks up the engine noise, going from lower revs up to shift point on the straight.
http://youtu.be/3FUu6cVG--k?t=2m56s

That's an '87 or '88 turbo 2.3 engine, unfortunately the GoPro doesn't pick up the turbo whistle. I wouldn't necessarily expect a modern 2.3 to sound the same, but the potential is definitely there. (It's the same block as Eunos_Cosmo's XR4Ti, but ours is intercooled.)


For the record, while I think turbos are very cool, I really love the sound of the 302 too.
 
If it's boring and inefficient, I don't care how reliable it is.

175hp and 270 lb-ft of torque (more or less year depending) is plenty enough to have fun with.


As far as the old 2.3L, my friend have had Foxes with them and can sound similar to V8s in the low rpms.
 
The Ford 2.3 can actually sound pretty gnarly with ITBs or sidedrafts:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC4D9DP82yo">YouTube Link</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmlhrPxH7oA">YouTube Link</a>

That said, I'm not a fan of that engine.

I don't care for it but its not horrendous. Could be better but aftermarket takes care of that.
 
I don't understand how people can't appreciate variety.

:cheers:

It's "horses for courses" really. Can completely understand someone not liking the sound of a four-cylinder, for example (well, I can understand the concept - in reality, I sometimes can't help thinking people get an idea and then hold on to it in public even when they're presented with something they may like privately), but to dismiss it out of hand as an option seems like limiting your horizons.

Some of the latest turbo'd inline fours, such as in all the hot hatches we get in Europe, are absolutely ferocious. And hilarious good fun. Throw those sort of engines in a Mustang and have them power the rear wheels and you'd have to be in a coma not to enjoy it, even if the exhaust note wasn't to your taste.

Throw in improved fuel efficiency over more traditional engines (which, if your daily budget isn't unlimited, matters more than some people like to admit) and it isn't hard to see the appeal.
 
Slashfan
175hp and 270 lb-ft of torque (more or less year depending) is plenty enough to have fun with.

To me, those sound like diesel numbers. I'd be willing to bet that while the I6 makes plenty of grunt, it's weak at higher rpms.
 
I can understand people not wanting a car that has no torque for everyday driving. When it comes to performance vehicles that aren't going to lose in a drag race to a minivan, why wouldn't you want a peaky engine? The peaks are where you're going to be at on the track, and that's the only place you actually get take a car to the limit. Why should I give a damn about torque from 0-5krpm? When am I going to be doing 2500rpm on the track?

Of course there are benefits to having extreme torque throughout the whole rev range, but that pretty much just leaves you with the corvette. Otherwise, why in the world would you have a supercharger over turbos when the top end suffers? If it makes that much of a difference to you on the road, you need to be on the track driving like that. If you're on the track, you're going to want a car with a fantastic top end anyway. That's the biggest reason I love the Coyote so much. I can't wait to have all the parts sititng in my garage thrown on it.
 
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