2015 Grand Prix de Monaco - All Results in OP

[daan]

Lets break this down.

Lewis had a 24 second lead when the virtual safety car was deployed. You need 19 seconds to make a pitstop and resume at Monaco.

Lewis thought he saw Nico pitting, and assumed that he would then be a sitting duck on his harder, old, cold tyres on the restart after the safety car. (Forgetting it's at Monaco where you cannot overtake.)

So, the team, thinking they had enough time to do the stop, brought him in. However, by the time the real safety car was deployed, the gap was down to about 12 seconds. The team failed to realise this.

Lewis should have said that he thought he saw Nico pitting. The team would then say that no, he hadn't, and I'm then pretty sure that Lewis wouldn't have pitted had that been the case.

If Vettel had pitted he would still have been behind the Mercs and could possibly have ended up behind the Red Bulls and so wouldn't have been a threat to the Mercs. (Remember we're still at Monaco where overtaking is impossible.)

So, there was no need for Lewis to pit, but it is mainly the team's fault that he lost because they did pit. As @prisonermonkeys says, Lewis has info that the team doesn't, but by the same token, the team has info that Lewis doesn't. The main point here is, does Lewis have a gap of more than 19 seconds? The team is the side that knows this. Or should know this. Lewis does not know this.

So blame is 80/20 to the team. It was a general breakdown of communication, but Merc should have known that Lewis did not have time to pit.

 

[Dennisch]

Does it really matter who's fault it is?

It keeps the championship a bit more exciting.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Everything matters!


Sometimes I wonder the meltdown we would have if the "internetz" existed during some previous very heated eras of motorsports. And I'm not saying this because of this forum, where keyboard warriors are rare and run out of fuel quick for lack of twin confrontationists.

But everytime I do browse the autosport forums ... I can only shake my head at the general stupidity and blind fanboyism (and hateboyism for one's idol's rivals) going on there in constant neverending word wars.


PS - The team is to blame for this. We all know Lewis can be a litle "pushy", but that leaves Merc with two options: a) keep the authority, give the orders and assume the good or bad consequences; b) lose the authority, do what the driver wants ... and face the consequences of it.

 

[mustafur]

Does it really matter who's fault it is?

It keeps the championship a bit more exciting.

pretty much, the less talented less skilled but luckier driver vs the driver that realistically should beat him.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

pretty much, the less talented less skilled but luckier driver vs the driver that realistically should beat him.

By "less talented less skilled driver", you mean the guy who had a) already taken two wins in Monaco and b) didn't ask the team to pit him for tyres because he didn't need them, right?

 

[mustafur]

By "less talented less skilled driver", you mean the guy who had a) already taken two wins in Monaco and b) didn't ask the team to pit him for tyres because he didn't need them, right?

Because a driver knows exactly what is happening with traffic(if he knows anymore then whats ahead of him or directly behind, from his own ability then he is probably a wizard), Rosberg is clearly the lesser driver though, and besides the last two Monaco wins were either tainted by questionable tactics and or a free pass.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

By "less talented less skilled driver"

Yeah, I remember Rosberg winning the championship for a second time last year too

 

[Dennisch]

Ah yes. This again.

I'll say it then.

Vettel is better than Hamilton and Rosberg combined.

 

[Nessy]

Based on championship wins, i'd have to agree.

Vettel is better at winning championships than Hamilton and Rosberg combined.

 

[Tired Tyres]

By "less talented less skilled driver", you mean the guy who had a) already taken two wins in Monaco and b) didn't ask the team to pit him for tyres because he didn't need them, right?

This again? He told the team his tyres weren't good. The TEAM called HIM in. You and YOUR anti Hamilton attitude again. What is it with you?

What did Rosberg do in final qualifying last year to guarantee pole position again? Take the blinkers off mate.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

[QUOTE="Tired Tyres, post: 10741516, member: 99271"The TEAM called HIM in.[/quote]
After Hamilton requested it. Why are you ignoring that?

What did Rosberg do in final qualifying last year to guarantee pole position again?

You're assuming that he did it deliberately. I haven't seen any conclusive proof that he did.

You accuse me of having some kind of anti-Hamilton agenda, but your favourable bias towards him is obvious.

 

[Tired Tyres]

[QUOTE="Tired Tyres, post: 10741516, member: 99271"The TEAM called HIM in.

After Hamilton requested it. Why are you ignoring that?

You're assuming that he did it deliberately. I haven't seen any conclusive proof that he did.

You accuse me of having some kind of anti-Hamilton agenda, but your favourable bias towards him is obvious.[/QUOTE]

. The only one showing bias here is YOU. If I pick YOU up on very clear bias that does not magically make me biased.

 

[aarror]

This again? He told the team his tyres weren't good. The TEAM called HIM in. You and YOUR anti Hamilton attitude again. What is it with you?

What did Rosberg do in final qualifying last year to guarantee pole position again? Take the blinkers off mate.

I'll say it again, that move in quali last year by Rosberg was 🤬 genius. You could tell he'd been in the same team as Schumacher.

FYI, I can't stand Rosberg or Hamilton, this has been a rough couple years for me. Can't believe Vettel is the likeable one now.

 

[Spurgy 777]

The only transcript I've seen was Hamilton asking if his team were sure about him staying out, that isn't the same as requesting a pit stop. At the end of the day, the fault was solely with the team, as Hamilton doesn't have any access to the gaps to other drivers or whether they were likely to pit at all.

 

[mustafur]

You accuse me of having some kind of anti-Hamilton agenda, but your favourable bias towards him is obvious.

Pot calling Kettle black much?

You have a near 100% record of saying negative things about Hamilton when ever you talk about him.

Then again you are very consistent in your negativity regardless of topic.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The only one showing bias here is YOU. If I pick YOU up on very clear bias that does not magically make me biased.

No, the thing that makes you biased is the way you have refused to even acknowledge Hamilton's role in the botched stop. Your posts insinuate that the sole responsibility rests with the team, even though they would not have considered pitting him if he hadn't made the request.

 

[Tired Tyres]

He didn't make a request. End of. What part of that can't you understand?

He asked the team if it was a good idea to stay out. They told him to pit. That is on the team and the team only.

Why would Mercedes apologise to him if he had any say in the decision they took?

You call me biased?

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

Defending someone you have taken such a completely unreasonable dislike to is not bias. It's called defending someone you have taken a completely unreasonable dislike to.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That is on the team and the team only.

So it's the team's fault that Hamilton suggested staying out, a course of action they never would have considered otherwise.

Why would Mercedes apologise to him if he had any say in the decision they took?

Because they made a mistake.

Here's the problem with your argument: you're assuming that it was either all Hamilton's fault, or all the team's fault, and that there is no middle ground where both bear some degree of responsibility for what happened.

Mercedes made a mistake - but Hamilton also made a mistake; indeed, he made his mistake first and Mercedes could not have made theirs without his. All I want is some recognition of that.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'm defending someone you have taken such a completely unreasonable dislike to.

All I want is some recognition of that.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh, I recognise that you're defending him. But you're presenting it as if Hamilton was faultless, an innocent victim of an amateurish error by the team. And if I don't like Hamilton, it's not because of anything he has or hasn't done - it's because of the attitude among his fans that he is absolutely perfect, and that he can do no wrong, even when he is the architect of his own demise.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Oh, I recognise that you're defending him. But you're presenting it as if Hamilton was faultless, an innocent victim of an amateurish error by the team. And if I don't like Hamilton, it's not because of anything he has or hasn't done - it's because of the attitude among his fans that he is absolutely perfect, and that he can do no wrong, even when he is the architect of his own demise.

You still haven't explained how it could possibly be Hamiltons fault, he, like every other driver, doesn't have access to the information that ultimately made the call a bad decision, so how is it his fault?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You still haven't explained how it could possibly be Hamiltons fault, he, like every other driver, doesn't have access to the information that ultimately made the call a bad decision, so how is it his fault?

I didn't say that it was his fault. I said that the fault is shared between him and the team.

 

[Spurgy 777]

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

I didn't say that it was his fault. I said that the fault is shared between him and the team.

Yes you did, just a page ago, you only said the blame should be equal at the very least.

And again, how can Hamilton even be partially blamed for the call when he doesn't have access to the information that would have told him it was a bad decision. As a driver all he can do is stress the state of his tyres, which he did, the team then takes that information into their overall decision. So the only way a pit stop call could be the drivers fault is for them to give incorrect feedback on the state of their tyres.

 

[craigatm]

Oh, I recognise that you're defending him. But you're presenting it as if Hamilton was faultless, an innocent victim of an amateurish error by the team. And if I don't like Hamilton, it's not because of anything he has or hasn't done - it's because of the attitude among his fans that he is absolutely perfect, and that he can do no wrong, even when he is the architect of his own demise.

You just know that if say it was Rosberg instead of Hamilton, people would have no problem with you partially (or even totally) blaming him. And would come up with any reason why it was entirely his fault! But this being Jesus Hamilton...

 

[Spurgy 777]

You just know that if say it was Rosberg instead of Hamilton, people would have no problem with you partially (or even totally) blaming him. And would come up with any reason why it was entirely his fault! But this being Jesus Hamilton...

I still would, does that make me not a person?

 

[Peasantslayer]

You just know that if say it was Rosberg instead of Hamilton, people would have no problem with you partially (or even totally) blaming him. And would come up with any reason why it was entirely his fault! But this being Jesus Hamilton...

And if Hamilton had ignored the order he'd be seen as arrogant by some people.

 

[Roo]

After reading the last few pages, let me see if I've got this right:

- Mercedes sucks
- Hamilton sucks
- Rosberg sucks
- Verstappen sucks
- Grosjean sucks

Anything I've missed?

 

[Hun200kmh]

- Monaco sucks

 

[Dennisch]

After reading the last few pages, let me see if I've got this right:

- Mercedes sucks
- Hamilton sucks
- Rosberg sucks
- Verstappen sucks
- Grosjean sucks

Anything I've missed?

We all love Vettel now that he isn't winning every race.

 

[craigatm]

I still would, does that make me not a person?

You are E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial right?

And if Hamilton had ignored the order he'd be seen as arrogant by some people.

No. What was arrogant was Hamilton playing the victim as usual after the race, pretending he had nothing to do with the decision. I actually felt a bit sorry for him until his typical race gone wrong whinge fest started. Not that that's the most arrogant thing he's done; not by a long shot. Remember the tweeting incident at Spa three years ago?