2015 Grand Prix de Monaco - All Results in OP

[IforceV8]

I have read that Mercedes apologized to Hamilton about calling him in unnecessarily, blaming it on a miscalculation. Is that the real story, or did Hamilton need, and demand, to pit to replace worn-out tires?

Re-watching the race when the VSC came out the gap to ROS was 19 sec. During the next lap when everything was going on and the SC was called for the timing on the screen jumped briefly to 25 sec gap then back to 21 sec when HAM caught the SC. I could be wrong but I would bet that when the timing showed a 25 sec gap the call was made to pit and they missed the fact that wasnt a true gap.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Bull 🤬 in my opinion. Grosjean definitely braked earlier than normal there. Even Alan McNish on BBC said he braked too early.

If that kerb at St Devote had been a sausage kerb like circuits are throwing in everywhere nowadays we would probably be talking about 4 dead marshals now, really scary moment. Even with all the protective layers the armco barrier was pushed back by a meter or two since it was such an high energy hit.

 

[catamount39]

Excuse me...HOW IS GROSJEAN TO BLAME FOR THAT?!

 

[psychoazubi]

Excuse me...HOW IS GROSJEAN TO BLAME FOR THAT?!

Because Verstappen said he did brake to early.

BUT: Data doesn't lie and in fact, Grosjean did even brake later than in the lap before. That's also why Verstappen got the penalty. Stewards wouldn't do that if the situation was unclear but they got the data from Lotus

 

[catamount39]

Because Verstappen said he did brake to early.

BUT: Data doesn't lie and in fact, Grosjean did even brake later than in the lap before. That's also why Verstappen got the penalty. Stewards wouldn't do that if the situation was unclear but they got the data from Lotus

As long as Verstappen got a penalty too. It was a pretty stupid stunt for you know...like 9th or 10th (whatever it was).

 

[IforceV8]

Max missed his braking point by 50m,he would have crashed w/o hitting the Lotus.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I am glad Nico has caught up to Lewis in the championship, hopefully that kicks him on to challenge Lewis more. The season is in dire need of them competing.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am glad Nico has caught up to Lewis in the championship, hopefully that kicks him on to challenge Lewis more. The season is in dire need of them competing.

...Nah I liked where it was. But that's only cause I'm a Lewis fan

I can see why people like a good scrap though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh and I forgot, wtf Red Bull, this is not racing, asking a driver to let the other overtake, then asking that same driver to let the other overtake you. Pitfull really.

It was obvious what they were trying to do. Ricciardo was faster than Kvyat, and with Kvyat unable to get by Hamilton, they decided to let Ricciardo have a go. But when Ricciardo couldn't do it either, they decided to let Kvyat have the place back - after all, he'd earned the result. And Ricciardo being Ricciardo, he would have let Kvyat back through without so much as a second thought because he's just a nice guy.

 

[mustafur]

It was obvious what they were trying to do. Ricciardo was faster than Kvyat, and with Kvyat unable to get by Hamilton, they decided to let Ricciardo have a go. But when Ricciardo couldn't do it either, they decided to let Kvyat have the place back - after all, he'd earned the result. And Ricciardo being Ricciardo, he would have let Kvyat back through without so much as a second thought because he's just a nice guy.

You wouldn't see Hamilton or Rosberg do this, but I doubt Ricciardo would either if he had either of them as team mate.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

DRIVERS TO WIN THREE MONACO GPs IN A ROW:
Graham Hill
Alain Prost
Ayrton Senna
Nico Rosberg

If I were Rosberg, I would request for my name to be taken off that, lol.

Three in a row at Monaco is no mean feat.

What would your reaction be if Hamilton and Rosberg had their positions reversed and Rosberg lost a sure win?

People would be praising Hamilton's nuanced strategy and willingness to risk running to the end on bad tyres.

 

[Jimlaad43]

If that kerb at St Devote had been a sausage kerb like circuits are throwing in everywhere nowadays we would probably be talking about 4 dead marshals now, really scary moment. Even with all the protective layers the armco barrier was pushed back by a meter or two since it was such an high energy hit.

They don't put a sausage there because the marshals post is like that.

That said, I've always thought the posts at Monaco look horrible, and it's not somewhere I'd like to marshal at.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

James Allen's analysis of what went wrong for Hamilton:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...-went-wrong-with-mercedes-pit-call-in-monaco/

The short version is that the team assumed the safety car would be lapping at a rate consistent with the delta time - but it wasn't, because they wanted the other drivers to form up behind it. So because Rosberg and Vettel weren't pinned behind the safety car, they could lap faster than Hamilton and still be within the delta time. It's a silly error to make, but since GPS doesn't work around Monaco, to procedure is different and much harder to calculate.

As for Hamilton, he was trying to make a call based on the information he was picking up from trackside broadcasting and was lobbying the team for the stop.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

It was obvious what they were trying to do. Ricciardo was faster than Kvyat, and with Kvyat unable to get by Hamilton, they decided to let Ricciardo have a go. But when Ricciardo couldn't do it either, they decided to let Kvyat have the place back - after all, he'd earned the result. And Ricciardo being Ricciardo, he would have let Kvyat back through without so much as a second thought because he's just a nice guy.

Thank you but I'm well aware of what happened and why, still I dont think that Ayrton and Alain would have done that or Lewis and Fernando you know. It's not racing to let someone by, even if you're in the same team. I never liked this kind of things and will never say it's normal or good. If you want to pass someone do it on the track with your skill.
My opinion.

As for Verstappen, I find him a bit overexposed atm, he doing a decent job so far but nothing exceptional like I've read. I'm much more impressed by Sainz so far, but he got a much easier job beeing left alone by the press. But so far rookie of the year is Sainz for me, not Verstappen. Which is understandable seeing their background.

 

[ShiftingGears]

James Allen's analysis of what went wrong for Hamilton:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...-went-wrong-with-mercedes-pit-call-in-monaco/

The short version is that the team assumed the safety car would be lapping at a rate consistent with the delta time - but it wasn't, because they wanted the other drivers to form up behind it. So because Rosberg and Vettel weren't pinned behind the safety car, they could lap faster than Hamilton and still be within the delta time. It's a silly error to make, but since GPS doesn't work around Monaco, to procedure is different and much harder to calculate.

As for Hamilton, he was trying to make a call based on the information he was picking up from trackside broadcasting and was lobbying the team for the stop.

Great article

 

[mustafur]

Bit late but: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...llegation-romain-grosjean-brake-tested-monaco

Also what is insane to think and I don't think anyone noticed as well was Grosjeans car literally got no damage from that hit, apart from being pushed off track he only had to turn around and he was able to finish the race, although that put him back in 12th.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Bit late but: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...llegation-romain-grosjean-brake-tested-monaco

Also what is insane to think and I don't think anyone noticed as well was Grosjeans car literally got no damage from that hit, apart from being pushed off track he only had to turn around and he was able to finish the race, although that put him back in 12th.

The post after your first on the subject contains a link referencing the stewards' view (that Grosjean in fact braked later than on any other lap). @Pilitev (the poster) translated it the wrong way around initially, but that's what it says.

The hit wasn't as impressive as it looked, I think Verstappen just managed to get on the brakes. The sudden snap of suspension was (imo) caused by the massive forces caused by two hot tyres touching it other at high rpm - the wheel goes up rather than backwards.

I also think that anyone who watched the race saw that Grosjean continued after exiting the St. Devote runoff

 

[Hun200kmh]

The FOM released transcript, as published on F1 Fanatic.

What can be so damaging for Mercedes and/or Hamilton that made FOM cut out and keep secret (I assume by request) the conversation before Hamilton pits????

 

[mikeerfol]

The FOM released transcript, as published on F1 Fanatic.

What can be so damaging for Mercedes and/or Hamilton that made FOM cut out and keep secret (I assume by request) the conversation before Hamilton pits????

You mean this one?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You mean this one?

And I still have trouble understanding how it is that Hamilton was able to recognize all this and play strategist rather than the actual strategist and driver engineer.

 

[Hun200kmh]

You mean this one?

Where did you get this?

 

[Barra333]

Where did you get this?

Transcript here and from 2:00 in the video here.

 

[mikeerfol]

Yeah actually there was a tweet with the exact image I posted but @Barra333 was faster

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And I still have trouble understanding how it is that Hamilton was able to recognize all this and play strategist rather than the actual strategist and driver engineer.

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

 

[Peasantslayer]

@prisonermonkeys I can see where you are coming from, perhaps Hamilton put a bit of pressure on the pit wall but at the end of the day they are the ones that should be able to see whether or not he will rejoin at the front of the pack, he asked "are you sure?" which isn't quite making the call to come in.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

I agree, but from that single portion, I have to ask what I already asked because Hamilton is paid to be a driver first and his suggestions on strategy should be noted but not taken fully on. It's almost as if Merc with all the info and telemetry they have well above their driver needed their hand held and some brain fart moment only for Hamilton to ask out of wonder and make sure they were on the same page.

It seems even Hamilton himself wasn't sure and just wanted to make sure the group was on the same page, but when he asks they seem unsure themselves. It was nearly on par with his McLaren days when they'd do the same, they'd have some advantage with either Button or Ham and weren't sure to a certain point what their next move should be and they'd blunder a race (that's if they hadn't already screwed up a bit stop). Very strange to see both ends unsure of each other and then that uncertainty translate on to the track.

No where should Hamilton be making these choices, from the transcript I didn't see a delta given between him and Rosberg for him to have the place to question his team and rather why didn't Mercedes say more (time most likely).

 

[Tired Tyres]

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

Anti Hamilton strikes again. What is it with you? What is your problem with him? What part of F1 doesn't tell you that every driver will be on the radio bitching about the tyres whenever a situation like this happens?

It is the responsibility of Mercedes to actually have SOMEONE IN CHARGE who is responsible for making these calls instead of a whole team of chiefs contradicting each other.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It is the responsibility of Mercedes to actually have SOMEONE IN CHARGE who is responsible for making these calls instead of a whole team of chiefs contradicting each other.

So it's the team's fault that the driver made a bad decision? All things being equal, you would assume that Hamilton was as capable of making a decision as the team - after all, he has information that they don't; the feel of the tyres.

I never said that it was all Hamilton's fault - only that the blame should be split fifty-fifty.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Did Hamilton drive into the pits having made his own call despite his team telling him not to? It's his fault.

Or did the team call him in? It's the teams fault.

Do other drivers constantly complain to their teams about tyres? Answer equals yes or no. Which is it?

So you never said it was all down to Hamilton then?

To my mind, this looks like it's all down to Hamilton. He's the one who made the call to come in, and while Mercedes didn't tell him otherwise, I have to wonder about this "all Mercedes' fault" approach. Granted, I haven't been able to read the entire transcript, but at the very least, the blame should be equally apportioned.

Again, What is YOUR problem with Hamilton?

 

[TenEightyOne]

So it's the team's fault that the driver made a bad decision? All things being equal, you would assume that Hamilton was as capable of making a decision as the team - after all, he has information that they don't; the feel of the tyres.

I never said that it was all Hamilton's fault - only that the blame should be split fifty-fifty.

"Do NOT box, no box, no box!". They could have sorted it that easily. On balance I believe that Hamilton pushed for a pit stop and that the team (with 20/20 hindsight) should have told him no. Hamilton 49%, team 51 %