2016 F1 Testing General Discussion Thread

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Today's results.

1. K. Raikkonen 1:22:765

2. F. Massa 1:23:193

3. N. Hulkenberg 1:23:251

4. M. Verstappen 1:23:382

5. N. Rosberg 1:24:126

6. F. Nasr 1:24:760

7. F. Alonso 1:24:870

8. P. Wehrlein 1:24:913

9. D. Kvyat 1:25:141

10. J. Palmer 1:26:224

11. L. Hamilton 1:26:488

12. R. Grosjean 1:27:196
 
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Not sure if this would be very helpful in preventing debris from hitting the driver. It seems to only help in worst case scenario of a wheel that breaks free of its tethers.

F1 was doing the right thing with their prevention over "solution" approach to safety issues over the years but i feel they are getting a bit too anxious now. This wouldn't have saved Bianchi, but the virtual safety car introduced since then, would have prevented him from being at that speed.
 
I'm not entirely sure where to write this, there isn't a general F1 news thread.

But all I like to say is that F1 is heading downhill VERY quickly! To the point where drivers refuse to race. First, most of them disagree with the new qualifying system and now the majority of them are actually against the "halo" project. F1 is going to die very, very quickly if it doesn't rethink these new rules - because I can see a lot of drivers handing over their seats for someone else and moving onto something else.
 
I'm not entirely sure where to write this, there isn't a general F1 news thread.

But all I like to say is that F1 is heading downhill VERY quickly! To the point where drivers refuse to race. First, most of them disagree with the new qualifying system and now the majority of them are actually against the "halo" project. F1 is going to die very, very quickly if it doesn't rethink these new rules - because I can see a lot of drivers handing over their seats for someone else and moving onto something else.

No it wont, and no they wont. Thanks for the laughs. Also since this is a driver issue, put it in the driver thread section if you think it's best. There will never be a general thread, cause it doesn't allow "freedom". Good luck.
 
I'm not entirely sure where to write this, there isn't a general F1 news thread.

But all I like to say is that F1 is heading downhill VERY quickly! To the point where drivers refuse to race. First, most of them disagree with the new qualifying system and now the majority of them are actually against the "halo" project. F1 is going to die very, very quickly if it doesn't rethink these new rules - because I can see a lot of drivers handing over their seats for someone else and moving onto something else.

I've been reading about how F1 is "going downhill fast" and "is on borrowed time" etc. etc. for near 20 years now. I remember it when the cars were narrowed to 1.8m and grooved tyres introduced in '98, everyone was saying how it was going to ruin F1 and people would stop watching, and yet the first two seasons of the grooved tyre era were two of the best of all time.

Not sure where you get the idea that drivers are refusing to race, that's the first time I've heard about it. Also, of the four drivers to comment on the Halo concept Kimi ran, two were opposed to it, and two were in favour of it, so it doesn't seem most drivers are against it. If you said most fans, I would agree, as every poll shows as much as 80% of fans are against it, including myself.

I think it looks ghastly, and wouldn't prevent anything but a tyre or a whole car from hitting a driver's head. It wouldn't have prevented Massa's injury, and it wouldn't have helped Jules.

I'm not sure how long you've been watching the sport, but people have been claiming it's going to "die" "fade into obscurity" "be overtaken by another form of motorsport", for decades. It is still the pinnacle of motorsport by a big margain, and the drivers still get paid more than in any other series, so I can't see why they would want to jump to a different series.
 
I've been reading about how F1 is "going downhill fast" and "is on borrowed time" etc. etc. for near 20 years now. I remember it when the cars were narrowed to 1.8m and grooved tyres introduced in '98, everyone was saying how it was going to ruin F1 and people would stop watching, and yet the first two seasons of the grooved tyre era were two of the best of all time.

Not sure where you get the idea that drivers are refusing to race, that's the first time I've heard about it. Also, of the four drivers to comment on the Halo concept Kimi ran, two were opposed to it, and two were in favour of it, so it doesn't seem most drivers are against it. If you said most fans, I would agree, as every poll shows as much as 80% of fans are against it, including myself.

I think it looks ghastly, and wouldn't prevent anything but a tyre or a whole car from hitting a driver's head. It wouldn't have prevented Massa's injury, and it wouldn't have helped Jules.

I'm not sure how long you've been watching the sport, but people have been claiming it's going to "die" "fade into obscurity" "be overtaken by another form of motorsport", for decades. It is still the pinnacle of motorsport by a big margain, and the drivers still get paid more than in any other series, so I can't see why they would want to jump to a different series.
I agree, I don't think F1 will die off, but I also think it's fair to say that it isn't at any kind of a high point right now. It's full of pretty dull personalities, relatively dull racing, and it's starting to become "overly safe". Yes, in my opinion, that's a thing. Ever gone cliff jumping? Not quite the same if you jump off the edge and then get lowered slowly and safely by a line attached to a harness.

The coolest thing about F1 right now is the engineering and the nerdiness, which part of me loves - but it's missing excitement. The most exciting part of F1 right now is the numbers. It's far too sterile, and I think the balance needs to swing back more to the raw side of things.


That said, my Dad thinks F1 died when they stopped racing on public roads, because "purpose built circuits are for 🤬". You're probably right though, it'll carry on in one form or another, like it has before.
 
They never stopped that though...a fourth to a third of the calendar (depending on recent years) is public roads.
 
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I wonder if those design considerations include generating downforce or channelling air into the airbox.

I'd hate to be coming up to Eau Rouge with that in the way, you wouldn't be able to see a thing until you're mid corner.

Indeed,also how would you be able to see the 5 lights at the start of the race?...
 
I agree, I don't think F1 will die off, but I also think it's fair to say that it isn't at any kind of a high point right now. It's full of pretty dull personalities, relatively dull racing, and it's starting to become "overly safe". Yes, in my opinion, that's a thing. Ever gone cliff jumping? Not quite the same if you jump off the edge and then get lowered slowly and safely by a line attached to a harness.

The coolest thing about F1 right now is the engineering and the nerdiness, which part of me loves - but it's missing excitement. The most exciting part of F1 right now is the numbers. It's far too sterile, and I think the balance needs to swing back more to the raw side of things.


That said, my Dad thinks F1 died when they stopped racing on public roads, because "purpose built circuits are for 🤬". You're probably right though, it'll carry on in one form or another, like it has before.

I wouldn't say it's at a high or a low point relative to it's history. Viewing numbers are down on recent years, but still up on 15 to 10 years ago by a long way. I also wouldn't say it's full of dull personalities. I hate the whole "PR speak" as much as the next guy, but it's not isolated to F1, it's in all sports these days. There are some very interesting personalities in F1 these days. Certainly no less than I ever remember.

I don't view safety in motorsport as a bad thing, because I don't want to see drivers killed on TV. Do I think the Halo is a good idea? No, absolutely not, but I do value changes like the virtual safety car, which actually could have prevented Bianchi's death if it were brought in before that race. Would you support the removal of safety devices in other forms of motorsport? F1 isn't the only one with a high safety standard. How about we put the fuel back into metal boxes instead of puncture proof bladders? Remove roll cages from touring and rally cars? There has to be a balance. Safety is very important, but we don't need knee jerk reactions like the one which led to the Halo concept.

As far as the racing being dull, I hate Mercedes winning everything as much as most people, especially as a Ferrari fan, but this is the way F1 has always been. It is first and foremost a manufacturer's sport, where a team can genuinely build a car better than the rest, and the smartest ideas can make a big difference. I would prefer it stayed this way, as we've got enough spec series, and series where anyone who does well gets reigned in with ballast and such. The only thing the current rules did wrong was to lock in Merc's advantage by instituting the progressive engine freeze and token system. Now those two things have both been abolished (well, tokens are gone as of next year), I think the current formula is a good one to go to 2020 with.

I'm especially looking forward to next year's cars, which should be significantly quicker. I just hope they don't end up adding those stupid Halos to them, as it'll ruin the aggressive new designs.
 
They never stopped that though...a fourth to a third of the calendar (depending on recent years) is public roads.
Meh, you try arguing with him. I've been at it for years :lol: Not saying youre wrong, but the street courses of this era (Melborne, Singapore, Sochi, Valencia) are not the same as the street/road courses of the 50s, 60s, 70s or even 80s. Hell even Montreal lost its high speed esses. He was used to watching racing at tracks like Nurburgring and Montejuic. Lucky guy actually got to go watch racing on the original Brno in the late 50s and 60s. I've tried to get him to warm up to the modern version of F1, but I think I sort of get it when he says it just does nothing for him anymore.

I wouldn't say it's at a high or a low point relative to it's history. Viewing numbers are down on recent years, but still up on 15 to 10 years ago by a long way. I also wouldn't say it's full of dull personalities. I hate the whole "PR speak" as much as the next guy, but it's not isolated to F1, it's in all sports these days. There are some very interesting personalities in F1 these days. Certainly no less than I ever remember.

I don't view safety in motorsport as a bad thing, because I don't want to see drivers killed on TV. Do I think the Halo is a good idea? No, absolutely not, but I do value changes like the virtual safety car, which actually could have prevented Bianchi's death if it were brought in before that race. Would you support the removal of safety devices in other forms of motorsport? F1 isn't the only one with a high safety standard. How about we put the fuel back into metal boxes instead of puncture proof bladders? Remove roll cages from touring and rally cars? There has to be a balance. Safety is very important, but we don't need knee jerk reactions like the one which led to the Halo concept.

As far as the racing being dull, I hate Mercedes winning everything as much as most people, especially as a Ferrari fan, but this is the way F1 has always been. It is first and foremost a manufacturer's sport, where a team can genuinely build a car better than the rest, and the smartest ideas can make a big difference. I would prefer it stayed this way, as we've got enough spec series, and series where anyone who does well gets reigned in with ballast and such. The only thing the current rules did wrong was to lock in Merc's advantage by instituting the progressive engine freeze and token system. Now those two things have both been abolished (well, tokens are gone as of next year), I think the current formula is a good one to go to 2020 with.

I'm especially looking forward to next year's cars, which should be significantly quicker. I just hope they don't end up adding those stupid Halos to them, as it'll ruin the aggressive new designs.

Again I can't disagree. You said it though, in terms of the safety regs, it's all about balance. Of course I'm not in favor of removing roll cages just like I'm not in favor of removing helmets or harnesses. Some safety solutions are good and necessary, the Virtual SC being one of them. At the same time others take things a little too far - the halo device and removing consequences for dropping all 4 wheels off the racetrack being two examples which come to mind.

As far as the Mercs dominating, I'm not completely against that, because I have respect and admiration for the engineering side of the sport, and Merc simply out engineered the others to date. But looking at the 2015 season, the two Mercs could barely race against each other. I know there's a whole variety of reasons why things panned out the way they did, but how many times did we here radio chatter of an attack which never came?
 
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Meh, you try arguing with him. I've been at it for years :lol: Not saying youre wrong, but the street courses of this era (Melborne, Singapore, Sochi, Valencia) are not the same as the street/road courses of the 50s, 60s, 70s or even 80s. Hell even Montreal lost its high speed esses. He was used to watching racing at tracks like Nurburgring and Montejuic. Lucky guy actually got to go watch racing on the original Brno in the late 50s and 60s. I've tried to get him to warm up to the modern version of F1, but I think I sort of get it when he says it just does nothing for him anymore.

I mean I'm sure we'd all love to see some of the stuff from that time. But to me the street circuits that exist now aren't nearly as bad as those of Ceasars Palace, Detroit, Phoenix (which I would have loved to watch), Dallas, Long Beach. I mean I'd love to see Watkins Glen or Kayalami on the F1 map instead of the Middle East tracks but I also think that it depends on what formula of F1 you watch that makes those tracks fun or boring.

A lot of people are set in their ways on why they wont come back, the tracks are too easy, the cars are too easy. The cars were better during the first turbo era, were better when they had v12 or v10 or even v8s. And on and on and to me it's just the conservative spirit of people at it's best. I just find it strange to say what he did when most of what's on the calendar is a purpose build circuit from the same era he watched, or a public road. Very few tracks right now are neither of those.
 
It seems some people are forgetting that the view in the picture, is where the camera is sitting on the top of the drivers helmet.

I'd say the drivers sight line probably sits a further 4-6 inches below that (approximately).
 
Again I can't disagree. You said it though, in terms of the safety regs, it's all about balance. Of course I'm not in favor of removing roll cages just like I'm not in favor of removing helmets or harnesses. Some safety solutions are good and necessary, the Virtual SC being one of them. At the same time others take things a little too far - the halo device and removing consequences for dropping all 4 wheels off the racetrack being two examples which come to mind.

I don't like excessive asphalt runoff, but I understand the reason for the existence of sealed runoff areas, and it's not entirely a safety thing.

The first point in favour of sealed runoff is it allows a driver who has left the track to regain or retain control of the car, avoiding dangerous and costly crashes in most cases. With grass, the driver becomes a passenger in most cases at high speeds, leading to major crashes, and with gravel, the car can dig in and flip, or can skip across the top of the gravel, neither of which are good for safety. The other point to make in favour of it is that a driver who is bumped off the road through no fault of his/her own won't have their race ended in the gravel.

Now the point to make against it is that it gives the drivers an incentive to drive beyond the track limits to gain an advantage, as there's no danger of ending your race by running as close to, and beyond, track limits. This point can be fixed by proper policing of track limits, which has been so inconsistent for years, but which the FIA has recently come out and said it will be much more strict on from this year onwards (here's hoping they stick to it). Another point might be that driver's bravery isn't rewarded like it used to be, which is true, but that's just an unfortunate bi-product of the modern professional era of motorsport, where people don't drive on tracks with power poles and trees lining them. But this is not unique to F1, as all major motorsport series are very professional now, whereas things were very amatuer and simple 50 odd years ago. The same things can be said about V8 Supercars when compared to Australian Touring cars of the 60s and 70s.

As for the Halo, well you know where I stand on that abomination.


As far as the Mercs dominating, I'm not completely against that, because I have respect and admiration for the engineering side of the sport, and Merc simply out engineered the others to date. But looking at the 2015 season, the two Mercs could barely race against each other. I know there's a whole variety of reasons why things panned out the way they did, but how many times did we here radio chatter of an attack which never came?

Well we've all got Nico Rosberg to thank for that. Seemingly he's only got any pace when the pressure is off him, which is sad. Although, even though I'm not really a fan of Hamilton, I'd much prefer to see him win than Rosberg. Rosberg is just such an entitled little princess, it's funny seeing him spit the dummy, especially when you've got Vettel winding him up at every press conference lol.

As far as the lack of competition goes, we've had that more times we can count in the past. The rose tinted glasses eras of the 60s, 70s, and 80s people regularly pine for were full of utter domination and a lack of competition between team mates. I still love seeing old GPs though, even though you'd regularly only have a few drivers finishing on the lead lap.
 
@twitcher We watched a different 2015, cause it played exactly like 2014. Up until Rosberg cut down Hamilton's tire mid way through the season. And even then they were still allowed to race cause Hamilton put his elbows out at three consecutive tracks to get the early finish to his championship. The race from their boiled down to having enough speed and strategy to over take the other Merc. As proven to us in the final three races, the team wasn't going to let a leap frog happen based on giving the second car a priority stop over the lead car. Rather if the second car wanted the race win so badly they'd have to chase down and fight the lead sister car for it, and in reality I can see why they'd do that. However, this is difficult with equal cars and drivers that are many times on par, but also the fact that these aero cars make it difficult to catch a twin car if you're not in DRS range.

There were never team orders like we saw in 2013 when Brawn was in charge, and they get to race each other so long as they don't do something stupid and get placed in time out. Attacks yet again didn't pan out because of the cars, not the team.
 
I don't like excessive asphalt runoff, but I understand the reason for the existence of sealed runoff areas, and it's not entirely a safety thing.

The first point in favour of sealed runoff is it allows a driver who has left the track to regain or retain control of the car, avoiding dangerous and costly crashes in most cases. With grass, the driver becomes a passenger in most cases at high speeds, leading to major crashes, and with gravel, the car can dig in and flip, or can skip across the top of the gravel, neither of which are good for safety. The other point to make in favour of it is that a driver who is bumped off the road through no fault of his/her own won't have their race ended in the gravel.

Now the point to make against it is that it gives the drivers an incentive to drive beyond the track limits to gain an advantage, as there's no danger of ending your race by running as close to, and beyond, track limits. This point can be fixed by proper policing of track limits, which has been so inconsistent for years, but which the FIA has recently come out and said it will be much more strict on from this year onwards (here's hoping they stick to it). Another point might be that driver's bravery isn't rewarded like it used to be, which is true, but that's just an unfortunate bi-product of the modern professional era of motorsport, where people don't drive on tracks with power poles and trees lining them. But this is not unique to F1, as all major motorsport series are very professional now, whereas things were very amatuer and simple 50 odd years ago. The same things can be said about V8 Supercars when compared to Australian Touring cars of the 60s and 70s.

As for the Halo, well you know where I stand on that abomination.




Well we've all got Nico Rosberg to thank for that. Seemingly he's only got any pace when the pressure is off him, which is sad. Although, even though I'm not really a fan of Hamilton, I'd much prefer to see him win than Rosberg. Rosberg is just such an entitled little princess, it's funny seeing him spit the dummy, especially when you've got Vettel winding him up at every press conference lol.

As far as the lack of competition goes, we've had that more times we can count in the past. The rose tinted glasses eras of the 60s, 70s, and 80s people regularly pine for were full of utter domination and a lack of competition between team mates. I still love seeing old GPs though, even though you'd regularly only have a few drivers finishing on the lead lap.

To be fair we have Nico (And Michael) to thank for developing the Merc as we see it over last couple of seasons, Nico was there from the start of the project.Lewis joined once he was sure he trusted what Merc were saying to him that he will be in the best car.. and i'm sure he has a clause to leave once the Merc isn't the best car to be in..
Take pretty much any top 10 driver in F1 and they could have a win in the Merc or at least spend a season coming second...

I think F1 is OK, but if the best racing series do it all on 2 wheels with alot more balls...
 
To be fair we have Nico (And Michael) to thank for developing the Merc as we see it over last couple of seasons, Nico was there from the start of the project.Lewis joined once he was sure he trusted what Merc were saying to him that he will be in the best car.. and i'm sure he has a clause to leave once the Merc isn't the best car to be in..
Take pretty much any top 10 driver in F1 and they could have a win in the Merc or at least spend a season coming second...

No, I would say Nico had very little to do with the development of the cars, and I'd argue that literally any other F1 driver could have done just as good a job in development. The real people to thank for the Merc's might are the technical staff that Ross Brawn amassed once he had Mercedes' backing, who all focussed on the 2014 engine regs right from the beginning, as far as two years before Ferrari and Renault began work on them. Merc decided it was more worthwhile to put all their focus on the new engines early on, instead of trying to play catch up with Red Bull, Ferrari, and McLaren in the old regs. As it turned out, they caught up to all but Red Bull in their aero, if not on the chassis front, but their strong 2014 focus payed off in a massive way. Now we're seeing everyone else playing catch up with them.

Brawn did at Mercedes what he helped do at Ferrari in the late 90's. He put together a strong technical team, drilled them well in how to work together as a team, and then sat back while the silverware piled up. Sadly he was pushed aside at Mercedes once they had everything in place to dominate, but trust me, he's the one who made all the right decisions that led to what we're seeing now.
 
To be fair we have Nico (And Michael) to thank for developing the Merc as we see it over last couple of seasons, Nico was there from the start of the project.Lewis joined once he was sure he trusted what Merc were saying to him that he will be in the best car.. and i'm sure he has a clause to leave once the Merc isn't the best car to be in..
Take pretty much any top 10 driver in F1 and they could have a win in the Merc or at least spend a season coming second...

I think F1 is OK, but if the best racing series do it all on 2 wheels with alot more balls...

What? Not sure where you're getting this from. Lewis joined the team because of talks between him and at the time team boss (Ross Brawn) and Niki Lauda. And did so talking about a team that at the time only could say that they were sure they could give him a better package than anyone else for the upcoming rule change. The car development after 2013 had little to nothing to do with the V8s of 2013 and prior to Mercedes return to F1.

The team was also different than the one that worked with Michael and Nico to the one that oversaw Lewis and Nico. In fact the entire engineering staff was overhauled before the world was told Lewis was the new driver. And thus the cars from 2013 forward had nothing in common to 2012 and prior, based on who was now in charge of design. And 2014 to present don't have much in common if at all with the 2013 runner based on packaging and other rule changes. So you're giving Michael Schumacher too much credit for the current success of Mercedes. No one ever guaranteed or told him he'd be in the best car, and in fact I'm sure he himself was worried after the way 2013 ended, even though he wasn't expecting to win or be a WDC runner.


Also the best racing series on 2 wheels is just as mired in politics between organization and teams and riders. They spend as much as F1 teams do to build over complicated systems, and don't always have fights that 2015 gave us. Not sure about the "more balls" statement.
 
I don't see why not, it's part of testing. The crap that's been discussed for the last page, I can understand him not wanting to see though.
 
No, I would say Nico had very little to do with the development of the cars, and I'd argue that literally any other F1 driver could have done just as good a job in development. The real people to thank for the Merc's might are the technical staff that Ross Brawn amassed once he had Mercedes' backing, who all focussed on the 2014 engine regs right from the beginning, as far as two years before Ferrari and Renault began work on them. Merc decided it was more worthwhile to put all their focus on the new engines early on, instead of trying to play catch up with Red Bull, Ferrari, and McLaren in the old regs. As it turned out, they caught up to all but Red Bull in their aero, if not on the chassis front, but their strong 2014 focus payed off in a massive way. Now we're seeing everyone else playing catch up with them.

Brawn did at Mercedes what he helped do at Ferrari in the late 90's. He put together a strong technical team, drilled them well in how to work together as a team, and then sat back while the silverware piled up. Sadly he was pushed aside at Mercedes once they had everything in place to dominate, but trust me, he's the one who made all the right decisions that led to what we're seeing now.

Oh God yeah, of course, totally correct!
Sorry i thought (assumed) it went without saying that the real masters are the engineers and technical genius's.
I meant AFTER those guys at least some credit goes to Nico for being there at the start of the project rather than Lewis just 'lucking' in to the best car by a country mile to the point of it being like Class A v's Class B cars.

Lewis's fanboys would have you believe that Mercs fortunes changed because Lewis stepped into the car.. lol...
Sad thing is to me is that had Michael stayed on one more year and kept his seat he or Nico would of been F1 WDC... So a chance Michael could of won one more then ducked out of it. He put some serious work into that Merc and the mardy child Lewis takes the glory..
 
Oh God yeah, of course, totally correct!
Sorry i thought (assumed) it went without saying that the real masters are the engineers and technical genius's.
I meant AFTER those guys at least some credit goes to Nico for being there at the start of the project rather than Lewis just 'lucking' in to the best car by a country mile to the point of it being like Class A v's Class B cars.

Lewis's fanboys would have you believe that Mercs fortunes changed because Lewis stepped into the car.. lol...
Sad thing is to me is that had Michael stayed on one more year and kept his seat he or Nico would of been F1 WDC... So a chance Michael could of won one more then ducked out of it. He put some serious work into that Merc and the mardy child Lewis takes the glory..

You could probably make an argument for Schuey having an important role in building the team, because he had worked so closely with Brawn at both Ferrari and Bennetton in the past, and they both knew all too well how to build a strong technical team around them. With that said, I still wouldn't give Rosberg any credit. His job could've been done by any of the other drivers, and the team would be equally dominant now without him having ever been there.

I honestly haven't seen anyone claim any of Merc's current success is down to Hamilton, but I don't know any fanboys of any driver that are that delusional lol.

Honestly, Merc could have hired Maldonado and Max Chilton in 2014 and they'd still be back to back double world champs lol.
 
Utter nonsense.

I'm a Lewis fan. I've never thought that to be the case.

OK thats one down then... you speaking on behalf of all of his fans?

OK open genuine question you think Lewis could of been Champion in the McLaren?

You could probably make an argument for Schuey having an important role in building the team, because he had worked so closely with Brawn at both Ferrari and Bennetton in the past, and they both knew all too well how to build a strong technical team around them. With that said, I still wouldn't give Rosberg any credit. His job could've been done by any of the other drivers, and the team would be equally dominant now without him having ever been there.

I honestly haven't seen anyone claim any of Merc's current success is down to Hamilton, but I don't know any fanboys of any driver that are that delusional lol.

Honestly, Merc could have hired Maldonado and Max Chilton in 2014 and they'd still be back to back double world champs lol.

Spot on, I know you semi joke but certainly most current F1 drivers could get that Merc into second at least, or at worst get themselves from the rear to the front 5.
This is F1 this is Motorsport, still love it all.
 
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OK thats one down then... you speaking on behalf of all of his fans?
Of course not. Though it seems you are...

OK open genuine question you think Lewis could of been Champion in the McLaren?
Which McLaren?
If you're referring to the one in which the same year he started his season at Mercedes? Then no, i don't think he would've won the WDC that year with McLaren.
 
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