2016 Le Mans 24 Hours - 15th to 19th June 2016

[CarBastard]

Congratulations to You, Your Team, and Your City. I watched with utter shock & awe at the level The Cavs played with last night, and so happy for you all.

Like The Race, The Game, was, "As Epic As It Gets".

I wept tears of sadness for Toyota, and Japan, and then I wept tears of joy for The Cavs and Cleveland.

 

[IforceV8]

GTP's favorite driver has been busy on the twitter today showing how the fake silver drivers once again have gamed the system- Top 2 in P2 and GTE-Am have fake silvers. 4th and 5th fastest overall drivers in P2 were silver drivers Menenez and Rusinoz based on their top 20 lap times. In GTE-Am silver driver Rui Aguas was the fastest of all and Jeff Segal was 5th-faster than his "pro" teammate Townsend Bell. Segal is a silver rated driving coach and race champion like Andrew Howard is a silver ice cream salesman and DHH is a silver rated rich computer tech guy. They really need to fix this but I doubt that anybody will as long as the grids are full.

 

[GTPorsche]

Ratings are completely bogus anyway.

 

[IforceV8]

Ratings are completely bogus anyway.

Rain comes from clouds.

 

[FordGTGuy]

So let me get this straight.

Other cars in the race had similar penalties and had to pit in order to repair them. Yet Ferrari ignores the request for a mandatory pit and gets a 20 second penalty?

So are the cars that had to fix their place indication lights during the race going to get their time back?

Sounds to me that Ferrari got away with ignoring the officials altogether, something that would get you disqualified in other motorsports, they get a slap on the wrist that represents a fraction of the time the repair would have taken.

No wonder they didn't try to appeal it.

 

[IforceV8]

So let me get this straight.

I just found out that the #67 Ford actually had a similar penalty as the #82 Ferrari and had to do a mandatory fix which costed them 15~ minutes. Yet Ferrari ignores the request for a mandatory pit and gets a 20 second penalty?

So are the cars that had to fix their place indication lights during the race going to get their time back?

The 67 started the race in the garage with a gear selection issue and later crashed out of the race. How would the leader lights have every been on when the car was 25 minutes behind to start the race and then spent another 1hr 25 min in the garage?

Do you have any evidence of this vast conspiracy against the beloved blue oval or did you read this in the comment section at racer?

 

[CarBastard]

The 67 started the race in the garage with a gear selection issue and later crashed out of the race. How would the leader lights have every been on when the car was 25 minutes behind to start the race and then spent another 1hr 25 min in the garage?

Do you have any evidence of this vast conspiracy against the beloved blue oval or did you read this in the comment section at racer?

I can't tell if the fanboy is trolling or just :censored:ing stupid. If the #67 was at anytime ordered to pit for a fix it didn't had to do with something as petty as the leader indicator lights...mainly because it never was in a position to have them on!

 

[trustjab]

They had issues with one of the cars in the Silverstone 6 hours, both cars failed at the Spa 6 hours, and they had issues again at Le Mans.

Reliability isn't their strong point with that car so far. Being a new car isn't an excuse either.

It's got the pace, but it breaks. Which just happens to put them in a better position than they were a year ago when they were nowhere to be seen in regards to pace.

Porsche broke at Spa and Le Mans, no excuse. Toyota got crashed into with the #5 at Silverstone btw. And Eau Rouge caused the engine issue at Spa. So Reliability is no one's strong point, your point is pointless.

Breaking is still breaking.

Like the #1.

It'll go down in history that Porsche won back to back.

No one cares who finishes 2nd or how it happened once it's all said and done.

Toyota still don't have what it takes to win, even though at this point they more than deserve to.

All the posts here care who came in 2nd. Proves your point pointless, again.

Guess not.

Apparently a DSQ is the same thing as winning.

No one said that except you.

I'll be more respectful when people stop taking my posts out of context.

The post above is an example of why you're being called out

Let's not forget that in 2014 they had a car with wings outside the rules which makes their defeat at Le Mans something just.

They found a loophole, and the car passed scrutineering. Sounds like jealousy imo.

It was the car, the car is the same place as both the team and the drivers.


Not all cars in the same team are treated equally. Also the car broke down, that sounds like a reliability issue even if its very minor.


By this logic, I'd say Audi have actually been the underdogs since 2014, the rule change really screwed their usual development of cars and had to rely on everything that isn't speed or pace to win.

Audi the underdogs? The team with a formula 1 budget who uses Sauber's windtunnel more than the f1 team. Classic.

So much this. People makes Toyota feel like a bunch of passionate garagists from the 60s.

So because they're an auto maker they can't be passionate?

IMO it's not a coincidence that Toyota failed again to win Le Mans. Their mentality is wrong. Audi and Porsche know how to play the game. Apparently it was an engine failure that took away the victory. It might have been the same problem they had in Spa and Toyota went to Le Mans confident the problem couldn't happen there. If they didn't do anything to solve or minimize the problem before going to Le Mans, then they took the risk. In a 24h race you need to play safe. The #6 car had handling issues and Sarrazin was complaining about it on the radio. Toyota didn't try to repair it and took the risk. They were several laps ahead and could try to fix it and secure the position. That's just an example of how things could've been worse.
In 2014 they were leading the race and the #7 had a failure they could avoid if they had repaired the car earlier.
Audi play same most of the time. They try to minimize bigger issues by taking precautionary actions, even if it would cost a little bit of time. In this race they changed the brakes on the #7 after the #8's brakes had some issues that ended up causing damage to other components, in order to avoid bigger issues. Audi had their worst Le Mans ever, yet they achieved another podium because they managed to keep both cars running. That's the spirit of Le Mans.
Porsche also played safe when they changed the tyres with just minutes until the end. They wanted to secure the second place. It's those kind of things Toyota should learn.
Toyota had a huge bad luck, but I don't think it was only that.

What mentality? You don't know what you're talking about in concern to 2014's events. The wiring loom failed (it also failed on a GTE Ferrari) and it wasn't Toyota's part. The other car crashed because Lapierre couldn't keep it together in the wet.

 

[FordGTGuy]

The 67 started the race in the garage with a gear selection issue and later crashed out of the race. How would the leader lights have every been on when the car was 25 minutes behind to start the race and then spent another 1hr 25 min in the garage?

Do you have any evidence of this vast conspiracy against the beloved blue oval or did you read this in the comment section at racer?

Even if it's wrong...

Ferrari should just get away with ignoring a mandatory pit then get a slap on the wrist for it?

Even a drive-through of the pit would have been a longer penalty then what they got.

It's not about a "conspiracy against the blue oval", it's about Ferrari ignoring a mandatory pit and getting a slap on the wrist for it when other teams had to pit and repair for similar issues.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

That's not included car my figures come from a driver that was offered a drive for a GTE team last year. If you fancy a single 6hr round it's 250k.

Also @R0ssingt0n watch your drive back!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ees-Britain-UK-EU-referendum-Brexit-Euro-2016

Our friends who left earlier than us had bricks hurled at them, not good! We got caught up in the road closure after it got way out of hand. The only plus side is that I had a good 3 hours to finish my left over beer haha! (I'm not driving by the way)

Back in the UK now 3 or so hours later than planned

 

[jergto]

There are a lot of gear heads in this forum. I post on Viper forums and some of them think that Ford and Ferrari cheated.
Does anyone know the BoP of all the cars on race day?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

They found a loophole, and the car passed scrutineering. Sounds like jealousy imo.

They found a loophole and could have won their only Le Mans with a irregular car. This makes me think about the "Porsche didn't deserve it" crowd having to put up with a illegal Toyota as a winner.

Besides, the brake-by-wire system had been found illegal after Silverstone and Spa that year, meaning before the 24 Hours. But, yeah, lets just continue the trend: so, poor Toyota.

So because they're an auto maker they can't be passionate?

Who said they can't? I surely didn't. I just found funny that Toyota is seen as this so brave, so small, so weak entity by some. They are a racing team just like its competitors.

And directly answering your provocation, yes, they can and they are. But, please, stop implying that they are this stoic no-money team.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I would also like to point out that instead of having a mature discussion I'm called ":censored:ing stupid":

I can't tell if the fanboy is trolling or just :censored:ing stupid.

Nice to know the personal insults haven't died down.

Stay classy guys.

 

[GTPorsche]

Final thing I'll say on the Toyota.

With the 1 hour safety car period to start the race, that saved them roughly 200 miles of distance. Had it not been for that, the car would have broke sooner than it did, and perhaps, the sister car would have met the same fate as well, but that's something we won't know. They were lucky in that regard, but that's the cards everyone was dealt for the race. Audi #7 had issues during the first hour, and Porsche #1 broke a gearbox. I wasn't disregarding those incidents either.

Guess some people just can't deal with "almost winning".

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Again, and again, as cool as it would be the ACO is very much against it and it appearst that the manufacturers too since they have shown little to no interest in engaging in a cost war to win the GTE trophy (Well, besides you know who with you know what car). It is nigh impossible to return to the formulas that gave us the most legendary cars of yesteryear without incurring in the same issues that eventually killed them off.

All there is to do right now is either focus on the BoP to get it right and match Ford and Ferrari to the competition or ask various manufacturers to comit in a long-term effort to develop GT1/LMGTP-ish cars at a very high level...and cost.

The ACO can just give GTE a power boost, and they will be faster than GT1 ever was.

As for costs, a DBR9 was around $600k though, but I suspect that a V8 Vantage GTE is more expensive than that.

That's not included car my figures come from a driver that was offered a drive for a GTE team last year. If you fancy a single 6hr round it's 250k.

Hefty. From what I can gather, it seems the 488 GT3 is $595k, and the GTE $715k. Don't quote me on those numbers though, since they don't come from any official sources.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

The ACO can just give GTE a power boost, and they will be faster than GT1 ever was.

As for costs, a DBR9 was around $600k though, but I suspect that a V8 Vantage GTE is more expensive than that.


Hefty. From what I can gather, it seems the 488 GT3 is $595k, and the GTE $715k. Don't quote me on those numbers though, since they don't come from any official sources.

Not far off one of my friends was looking at a 488 GT3 and was quote around £525,000 so he went with a 458 GT3 with a works engine that dyno'd at just over 700bhp.

A vantage GTE is around the £600,000 but there has been one raced in ELMS and Le Mans that sold for £3xx,xxx

 

[IforceV8]

Even if it's wrong...

Ferrari should just get away with ignoring a mandatory pit then get a slap on the wrist for it?

Even a drive-through of the pit would have been a longer penalty then what they got.

It's not about a "conspiracy against the blue oval", it's about Ferrari ignoring a mandatory pit and getting a slap on the wrist for it when other teams had to pit and repair for similar issues.

It was the #66 car that was called in by to repair the RH number panel that had been out for a majority of the race. That is required so race control and the marshals can identify the cars at night. The leader lights are there to let the fans know who is in the top 3. The Ferrari had as I posted earlier 1 of the 6 bulbs out. They are similar in the way that they both are lights. One is required for marshaling and one is for the spectators. While it is terrible that the tifosi on the inside of the track were deprived of the joy that the Ferrari owned by a Houston car dealer was leading the factory Fords run by the powerhouse Chip Ganassi racing it means NOTHING to anybody else.

Ganassi tried a last resort tactic to get a competitor to pit and lose their podium positions in order to benefit on of their cars. Period. Risi were given a penalty and it also cost them 5000 euro to ignore the flag but the cheap ass tactics by Ganassi have done more harm to them then if they had just tipped their hats and said "well done". They had as I posted earlier 8hrs to protest that light and chose to wait. The fact that the stewards gave them a slap on the wrist for that says everything about how big of a priority it was.

 

[lxmmy]

I would also like to point out that instead of having a mature discussion I'm called ":censored:ing stupid":



Nice to know the personal insults haven't died down.

Stay classy guys.

You are the instigator of this as you fail to see your beloved team have committed acts which makes the class as bitter and by the sounds of it you haven't watched the race but just read what from a one page article and interpret into your bias Ford view.

From start to finish. Ford are the catalyst for most of this controversy.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You are the instigator of this as you fail to see your beloved team have committed acts which makes the class as bitter and by the sounds of it you haven't watched the race but just read what from a one page article and interpret into your bias Ford view.

From start to finish. Ford are the catalyst for most of this controversy.

I didn't instigate any of the personal insults I've received in this this thread and stop trying to defend it.

Last I checked it's against the forum rules.

Also none of what you guys are saying does anything to justify the Risi team getting away with ignoring a mandatory pit and then getting a slap on the hand for it when other teams had to pit in order to repair the AOC provided lights.

 

[daan]

I would also like to point out that instead of having a mature discussion I'm called ":censored:ing stupid":

Mature discussion left days ago. It would do well to return.

 

[noshog]

Final thing I'll say on the Toyota.

With the 1 hour safety car period to start the race, that saved them roughly 200 miles of distance. Had it not been for that, the car would have broke sooner than it did, and perhaps, the sister car would have met the same fate as well, but that's something we won't know. They were lucky in that regard, but that's the cards everyone was dealt for the race. Audi #7 had issues during the first hour, and Porsche #1 broke a gearbox. I wasn't disregarding those incidents either.

Guess some people just can't deal with "almost winning".

Maybe I haven't had enough sleep, maybe I've missed something here...But your post seems a bit pointless, you've even stated why its pointless.

But I will bite on the 'almost winning' bit....For me it would take quite a heartless person not to appreciate what Toyota (and their fans) are going through. It's the emotionless responses that get to people. I am a Toyota fan, we didn't win, it sucks but we didnt win ! Porsche did, and bloody good job to them !!
I know for me, if the roles were reversed, I wouldn't be taking cheap low blows at Porsche and their fans (I am not saying you did, I havent read through all the 100+ pages of this thread), I would be offering them my massive respect and thanks, thanks for letting me witness one of the most epic battles we are ever likely to see !!!

 

[lxmmy]

saying does anything to justify the Risi team getting away with ignoring a mandatory pit and then getting a slap on the hand for it when other teams had to pit in order to repair the AOC provided lights.

Do we really need to go over this again? We have explained this too many times and you have the ability to go back through the pages so carefully read what people have responded about this.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Do we really need to go over this again? We have explained this too many times and you have the ability to go back through the pages so carefully read what people have responded about this.

So you're saying that no other team during the race pitted to repair the AOC provided lights?

That Risi should get a slap on the wrist for ignoring the officials demand for a mandatory pit?

What's the point in even having mandatory pits if the team can just ignore them and get a fraction of the time penalty then if they actually pitted?

It's not even about lights, it's about a team ignoring a mandatory pit and only getting a 20 second penalty for it.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Also none of what you guys are saying does anything to justify the Risi team getting away with ignoring a mandatory pit and then getting a slap on the hand for it when other teams had to pit in order to repair the AOC provided lights.

Almost as bad as ford breaking one of the first rules saying they have to build x amount of road cars then eh

 

[FordGTGuy]

Almost as bad as ford breaking one of the first rules saying they have to build x amount of road cars then eh

They didn't break any rules as all the other teams allowed them to participate.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

They didn't break any rules as all the other teams allowed them to participate.

They did though the rules don't state that, they were issued a waiver but they still broke the rules also as per your other post the lights are not provided by the aco.

 

[lxmmy]

So you're saying that no other team during the race pitted to repair the AOC provided lights?

When did I say something on those lines?

That Risi should get a slap on the wrist for ignoring the officials demand for a mandatory pit?

Yes.

You see that time? It would been more suitable if they had been penalised when the leader lights has been firstly spotted so this would allow Risi to adjust and change strategies but not when there are 20 minutes left on the clock.

 

[FordGTGuy]

They did though the rules don't state that, they were issued a waiver but they still broke the rules also as per your other post the lights are not provided by the aco.

Do you understand what a waiver is?

If the league allowed it and accepted a waiver then they didn't break any rules.

When did I say something on those lines?

Yes.

You see that time? It would been more suitable if they had been penalised when the leader lights has been firstly spotted so this would allow Risi to adjust and change strategies but not when there are 20 minutes left on the clock.

So you agree that other teams had to make mandatory pits to fix AOC provided lights...

Which is the point I'm making, if other teams had to accept this mandatory pit then Risi should have too or received a penalty representing the time needed for the repair, not a time that doesn't even equal a drive through of the pits.

Should the other teams that had to fix these lights get that time back?

 

[CodeRedR51]

With the 1 hour safety car period to start the race, that saved them roughly 200 miles of distance. Had it not been for that, the car would have broke sooner than it did, and perhaps, the sister car would have met the same fate as well, but that's something we won't know.

It could have hurt them as well. Could go either way.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Do you understand what a waiver is?

If the league allowed it and accepted a waiver then they didn't break any rules.

Please answer the following question with ether a yes or a no, no paragraphs just yes or no.

Have you read the GTE rules in full?