2016 Le Mans 24 Hours - 15th to 19th June 2016

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Please answer the following question with ether a yes or a no, no paragraphs just yes or no.

Have you read the GTE rules in full?

Understanding how a waiver works is not bound by understanding the rules of GTE-PRO.

"the act of choosing not to use or require something that you are allowed to have or that is usually required"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/waiver

But I'm sure I'll receive a personal insult for not knowing all the GTE-PRO rules.
 
Understanding how a waiver works is not bound by understanding the rules of GTE-PRO.

"the act of choosing not to use or require something that you are allowed to have or that is usually required"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/waiver

But I'm sure I'll receive a personal insult for not knowing all the GTE-PRO rules.

GTE rules state that there is a minimum production amount of cars per year. And some advice... @Holdenhsvgtsr does actually know a little more than you about this...
 
They found a loophole and could have won their only Le Mans with a irregular car. This makes me think about the "Porsche didn't deserve it" crowd having to put up with a illegal Toyota as a winner.

Besides, the brake-by-wire system had been found illegal after Silverstone and Spa that year, meaning before the 24 Hours. But, yeah, lets just continue the trend: so, poor Toyota.



Who said they can't? I surely didn't. I just found funny that Toyota is seen as this so brave, so small, so weak entity by some. They are a racing team just like its competitors.

And directly answering your provocation, yes, they can and they are. But, please, stop implying that they are this stoic no-money team.
Come on now, you seriously need to brush up on your facts. The brake by wire system was allowed by the rule makers, just the same as the rear wing. In fact, Audi and Porsche both copied Toyota and use that type of braking system. You come off snobbish yet you're ignorant on your facts. Then you spew bs like people are claiming Toyota is so brave and small. Well, their budget is. It's a quarter of what they spent in F1 per year ($300million-$75million).
 
To quote him from a conversation I once had with Michael J Fuller (mulsannecorner) ...

"Toyota are ruled by accountants".
 
Audi the underdogs? The team with a formula 1 budget who uses Sauber's windtunnel more than the f1 team. :lol: Classic.
Budget doesn't make a team an underdog. While Audi has the money to make an OP car, the LMP1 regulations really hurt Audi's LMP1 production, you can see from multiple races since 2014 that Audi have been struggling to get to grips with the 2014 regulations.
 
Budget doesn't make a team an underdog. While Audi has the money to make an OP car, the LMP1 regulations really hurt Audi's LMP1 production, you can see from multiple races since 2014 that Audi have been struggling to get to grips with the 2014 regulations.
Yes, they hurt 'poor' Audi, who's won every LM except 3 in the past 14 years. Audi are the underdogs with a diesel engine that has 45% thermal efficiency and probably north of 800lb-ft of torque.
 
Yes, they hurt 'poor' Audi, who's won every LM except 3 in the past 14 years. Audi are the underdogs with a diesel engine that has 45% thermal efficiency and probably north of 800lb-ft of torque.

Agreed. When you are inferior but have much more resources you're not an underdog, you're just doing something wrong.

It's kinda odd saying that a team with a budget north of a hundred million is "an underdog", but by comparison it's definitely not a wrong label. Plus, you could say that they've only lost twice, one to Peugeot and one to Porsche, since that Bentley was basically an R8 EVO.

Any official word on what was the failure on #5?
 
Yes, they hurt 'poor' Audi, who's won every LM except 3 in the past 14 years. Audi are the underdogs with a diesel engine that has 45% thermal efficiency and probably north of 800lb-ft of torque.
Remember I was using Bo's logic of the past not mattering so Audi's history wouldn't matter either.

I think Audi has it's own plans on winning races as they are always reliability over speed and pace. However, not only has diesals been relatively nerfed but the new fuel flow regulation prevents Audi doing what it wants to do.

Also Toyota's performance this year has already proved that they are threats and not underdogs, Them being pictured as inferior is very absurd to me, they stopped being underdogs after 2013. They've overtaken Audi in terms of performance.
 
Understanding how a waiver works is not bound by understanding the rules of GTE-PRO.

"the act of choosing not to use or require something that you are allowed to have or that is usually required"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/waiver

But I'm sure I'll receive a personal insult for not knowing all the GTE-PRO rules.
I said to answer yes or no so again have you read the GTE regulations in full? yes or no?

This isn't bullying it's to understand exactly how much you know.
 
What mentality? You don't know what you're talking about in concern to 2014's events. The wiring loom failed (it also failed on a GTE Ferrari) and it wasn't Toyota's part. The other car crashed because Lapierre couldn't keep it together in the wet.
They had other problem detected at the time. If they played safe, they could avoid that failure. Toyota still don't know the best approach on how to Le Mans. Simple as that. It's not coincidence that they failed again to win Le Mans. Only Toyota fans will say that it's all about bad luck.
Audi worst Le Mans ever: 3rd and 4th place.
Toyota best Le Mans ever: 2nd and a retirement.
 
Toyota still don't know the best approach on how to Le Mans.
You know I keep seeing people say this, and I don't think anyone saying it was watching the same race as the rest of us that disagree with you. Part failure be damned, if that car had made it another lap, nobody would be saying BS like that. They ran at the front for pretty much the whole damn race. Don't know the best approach...please.
 
You know I keep seeing people say this, and I don't think anyone saying it was watching the same race as the rest of us that disagree with you. Part failure be damned, if that car had made it another lap, nobody would be saying BS like that. They ran at the front for pretty much the whole damn race. Don't know the best approach...please.
I wasn't talking about that failure. Their approach I'm taking about is some decisions taken during some specific scenaries. Just an example: Why Toyota didn't try to repair the #6 when Sarrazin was still complaining about how hard it was to drive? If he crashed the car? Then Toyota wouldn't even get a podium. That's not a good approach.
Now look what Porsche did. They had a tyre issue but even in the very end of race they stop and change the tyres. What would Toyota do in this situation? Tell the driver to go flat out and screw the tyres?
 
You know I keep seeing people say this, and I don't think anyone saying it was watching the same race as the rest of us that disagree with you. Part failure be damned, if that car had made it another lap, nobody would be saying BS like that. They ran at the front for pretty much the whole damn race. Don't know the best approach...please.

The car wouldn't have made the final hour. Remember we did an hour under safety car.
 
I wasn't talking about that failure. Their approach I'm taking about is some decisions taken during some specific scenarios. Just an example: Why Toyota didn't try to repair the #6 when Sarrazin was still complaining about how hard it was to drive? If he crashed the car? Then Toyota wouldn't even get a podium. That's not a good approach.
Now look what Porsche did. They had a tyre issue but even in the very end of race they stop and change the tyres. What would Toyota do in this situation? Tell the driver to go flat out and screw the tyres?
Pitting to change tyres is very different to bringing the car in to the garage to fix a broken floor when the Audi was 1 lap behind so they would have passed them anyway.

If only the Safety Car had stayed out for one lap longer! The clock would have run down before the #5 had it's apparent turbo issue.

Anyway, chins up and on to 6h Nurburgring for a Toyota win.
 
I wasn't talking about that failure. Their approach I'm taking about is some decisions taken during some specific scenaries. Just an example: Why Toyota didn't try to repair the #6 when Sarrazin was still complaining about how hard it was to drive? If he crashed the car? Then Toyota wouldn't even get a podium. That's not a good approach.
Now look what Porsche did. They had a tyre issue but even in the very end of race they stop and change the tyres. What would Toyota do in this situation? Tell the driver to go flat out and screw the tyres?
Call them bad decisions if you want, but in the final moments of the race they were the ones out front. And that's what it all comes down to.
The car wouldn't have made the final hour. Remember we did an hour under safety car.
I already said that safety car period also could have hurt the reliability of the car. It could go either way.
 
Pitting to change tyres is very different to bringing the car in to the garage to fix a broken floor when the Audi was 1 lap behind so they would have passed them anyway.

If only the Safety Car had stayed out for one lap longer! The clock would have run down before the #5 had it's apparent turbo issue.

Anyway, chins up and on to 6h Nurburgring for a Toyota win.
No. The Audis were several laps behind. Toyota had several minutes to fix the car.
 
Bo
As though I'm not aware of that? 2014 is irrelevant now. Porsche were in a development year and the Audi was just bad compared to the TS050. It would've been 8/8 if not for a tiny cheap part outside of their control frazzling itself.

Since 2015, when everyone was pretty much equal, our lack of budget showed. Going into this year things were still quiet, and both races so far this season have sent rotten luck our way.

If you'd have said last week that Toyota would narrowly miss the win as the VAG cars suffered reliability issues, Audi barely even featuring, and we were on par with Porsche for outright pace, I'm confident you would've been laughed off the forum. The end result doesn't represent the leap forward that's been made, and I think people are going to realise that the championship is very much a six way battle once more. I'm feeling so enthused about round 4. It feels like we have our mojo back.

Why do you keep on using personal pronouns?
 
The car wouldn't have made the final hour. Remember we did an hour under safety car.
A interesting theory but what if the safety car(s) are what caused the issue in the first place? Putting around at speeds that a Prius was designed to run instead of a race speed cant be good for a race car. Add to that all of the extra time spent on the slow zone limiter putting stress on parts could have contributed to a parts failure. I dont know how they spend their time at a endurance testing session but I would bet they spend very little of it running around on a rev limiter.
 
No. The Audis were several laps behind. Toyota had several minutes to fix the car.
No. The Toyota was only one lap ahead of the #8. You have your timeline messed up. Koby wasn't at fault for that damage either. I keep seeing this here and other forums. That damage was there from contact with a GTE earlier in the race. The performance wasn't all there, but it was made worse because Koby spun when he was catching the #2.

Bring on Nurburgring. I wonder if Toyota will have the Spa/Silverstone package or run something with even more downforce?
 
A interesting theory but what if the safety car(s) are what caused the issue in the first place? Putting around at speeds that a Prius was designed to run instead of a race speed cant be good for a race car. Add to that all of the extra time spent on the slow zone limiter putting stress on parts could have contributed to a parts failure. I dont know how they spend their time at a endurance testing session but I would bet they spend very little of it running around on a rev limiter.
Does slowing down even do that? If the car can't handle Safety Car speed for 1 hour then Toyota deserved to lose, so I doubt it was because of Safety Car speed.
 
GTE rules state that there is a minimum production amount of cars per year. And some advice... @Holdenhsvgtsr does actually know a little more than you about this...

This is a bad argument.

All the teams agreed to waiver the rule to allow the Ford GT to compete and the League allowed it too, therefore they did not break any rules by participating. It's a terrible argument when the league who creates and enforces the rules have allowed it.

Whether or not it breaks the rules "for you" means little to nothing and whether I have a full understanding of GTE-PRO rules also means little to nothing in regard to this.

BTW before you say he knows more then me... well the people that run this league that allowed the Ford GT to participate know more about the rules than him.
 
Here is an interesting on Le Mans. Kind of sums up how I feel. Race was good, but the politics played in it-not so much. Though I will say I don't think it'll be as extreme as the title says it could be (at least I hope it won't be long term).
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...ad-sports-car-explosion/#.V2i2QRP8gY0.twitter
Thanks for that, it was a great read and very informative. It helped clear some things up for me. I've been following this thread and some of the arguing makes sense to me now, I guess...:lol:
 
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