2016 Mazda2 | Mazdaspeed2 being considered?

  • Thread starter CodeRedR51
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Well, it isn't exactly a huge surprise.

Mazda's margins are tiny on a lot of these cars, and I'm quite certain that the margin on the new 2 would be even smaller than what they've got on the 3, 6, and CX-5. If they give us the CX-3, and with that segment literally blowing up as we speak, I can definitely see that being a much better short and long-term investment in our market compared to certifying the 2. The 2 could be a downright incredible car (just like the current one), but if it doesn't find a way to beat the Fiesta, Sonic, or Fit at their own game(s), it will languish behind the competition just as its predecessor did.
 
Why buy a Mazda 2 when you can buy a Mazda 3? And why buy a 3 when you can buy a 6?
 
Looks Like the Mazda 2 is Back on the Menu, Boys!

Jalopnik
Autoguide reports that the Scion iA sedan will use the Mazda2 platform and its 1.5-liter SkyActiv inline four-cylinder engine. In Canada it will be badged as the Toyota Yaris sedan. The car will debut at the New York Auto Show along with the production Scion iM hatchback, which is based on the European Toyota Auris.
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So, that's nice. I mean, I'd rather have the 2 - but at least we get it in spirit? Here's hoping Scion doesn't suck all the fun out of what will likely be a very good chassis.
 
Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, XV, BR-Z

Mazda2, Mazda3, CX3, CX5, Mazda6, BT-50, MX-5

Bigger in terms of brand name, car models or Company overall?
 
Just convinced my sister to get one today, went on a test drive with the Swift, Yaris, Polo and Mazda 2.

She didn't like the dated interior of the Swift, the boring interior and ugly front of Yaris and the Jerky DSG in the Polo but said the Mazda was excellent, interior is basically right up there with the Polo but much more Stylish.

Ride is a bit harsh though and the Auto isn't very good though and is rarely in the right gear.

The Mazda 2 looks the best by far imo and is the best to drive in Manual, I would consider getting a Genki after driving it today it feels very upscale inside, shame there is no Bose option for the stereo and Xenons.
 
The manual definitely makes the 2 come alive. In the auto, I spend my time thinking about that headrest and seatback position. I had my wife drive it and she couldn't get a good position with the backrest. The headrest was bugging her. In the Megane the headrest was adjustable. On the other hand, the CX-3 seats are perfect.
 
mustafur
Just convinced my sister to get one today, went on a test drive with the Swift, Yaris, Polo and Mazda 2.

She didn't like the dated interior of the Swift, the boring interior and ugly front of Yaris and the Jerky DSG in the Polo but said the Mazda was excellent, interior is basically right up there with the Polo but much more Stylish.

Ride is a bit harsh though and the Auto isn't very good though and is rarely in the right gear.

The Mazda 2 looks the best by far imo and is the best to drive in Manual, I would consider getting a Genki after driving it today it feels very upscale inside, shame there is no Bose option for the stereo and Xenons.
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Weren't you the guy that said Mazda's weren't good dynamically? :P

Joking aside, I really need to drive one of these new generation Mazdas. They seem to retain everything I like about the older ones but vastly improve the things I didn't like (styling, mainly)
 
Keef
In the US, Subaru is a far bigger company and is growing rapidly.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/05/february-2015-auto-sales-by-the-numbers/
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Still makes it smaller, Subaru's line up is nearly entirely american focused these days and it makes no real impact in other markets, all cars basically lack any soul from the market leading stuff they where selling 10 years ago.

Eunos_Cosmo
Weren't you the guy that said Mazda's weren't good dynamically? :P

Joking aside, I really need to drive one of these new generation Mazdas. They seem to retain everything I like about the older ones but vastly improve the things I didn't like (styling, mainly)
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Yes, that applied to the ones I have driven.

The First Gen Mazda 3 was a terrible car with horrible dynamics.

The biggest issue with Mazdas now are just Road noise at speed which has been a problem for many years, if they can solve that VW will have no answer, not really an issue with Mazda 2 though as most will use for city driving.

I would compare a Genki(top of the line)Manual with a Mini Cooper 5 door tbh, both have similar style and I would rate interiors about the same in Style and quality, and both drive very similar, the mazda has alot more cabin noise though as said before but that would be a minor price difference for better insulation not a 30% extra cost for the Mini over the 2 like it is in Oz.

Take the Badge away and go in blind and you would think they are direct rival cars.

YSSMAN
Looks Like the Mazda 2 is Back on the Menu, Boys!



So, that's nice. I mean, I'd rather have the 2 - but at least we get it in spirit? Here's hoping Scion doesn't suck all the fun out of what will likely be a very good chassis.
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Expect Toyota to ruin the steering though and will the sedan use a longer wheelbase?

That might dull the chassis a bit.
 
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mustafur
Still makes it smaller, Subaru's line up is nearly entirely american focused these days and it makes no real impact in other markets, all cars basically lack any soul from the market leading stuff they where selling 10 years ago.
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I suppose it depends on how you want to measure a lineup. Sure, Subaru's products now lean heavily American, but even with fewer options, they've managed to grow their sales all while increasing their reliability/quality scores and improving their resale value numbers. That's tough to do in a market that's as competitive as it is in the US. But, we've also got to remember that Subaru was basically on their own for, what, 30 years, doing the AWD sedan thing? Sure, Audi was in the mix too, but aside from them, it was only "specialty" models from Mazda, Ford, or GM that offered that kind of setup in the US. These days, everyone's got an AWD sedan to offer - proving Subaru's point from the outset.

One thing I'd also consider would be the mountain that Subaru has been able to get over that some of their competition has not - that's repeat buying. Its pretty well known in the US that the average Subaru buyer is very similar to that of VW, Volvo, and (formerly) Saab... Three companies that have struggled to maintain their market share due to poor product planning and too much of a recursive buying structure that didn't bring in new customers. In the US, VW's product strategy is a disaster, and while Volvo's is improving, you sometimes have to wonder how many of their buyers are Saab refuges. Subaru got past the hump by bringing in younger buyers (the WRX is great advertising), mainstream shoppers (Legacy is as reasonable a choice as a Camry now), and the booming crossover buyer (the Forester is still class-leading in some respects). Their lineup is boring, absolutely, but that's what the people who are buying want... But, there is enough of that Subaru soul there to keep their traditional shoppers happy, and many of their products are just quirky enough to bring in curious people, and get them hooked on what has been bringing people in for 30 plus years.


Mazda in the US is an entirely different story. Without the Ford support, they have to be much more careful with product development and execution, and thus far, they've proven to be great at making exceptional cars on a budget. But, when it comes to actual innovation, I definitely feel like Mazda is more or less preaching to the choir - as in, doing what the enthusiasts want, but in a mainstream fashion - that gives the false impression that they are completely class-leading in any shape or form. Clever engineering is clever engineering, and they're arguably the best at it given their smaller pool of development funds. But it isn't like they're reshaping the idea of what needs to be done. Their products are successful because Mazda people want more Mazdas, and they won't shut up about it, and they get people like me who like what the company is doing, to also not shut up about it. In a weird way, Mazda today is pretty much like what Subaru was 20 years ago, doing their own thing and being reasonably successful, but that doesn't make them some kind of special force in the industry.
 
YSSMAN
I suppose it depends on how you want to measure a lineup. Sure, Subaru's products now lean heavily American, but even with fewer options, they've managed to grow their sales all while increasing their reliability/quality scores and improving their resale value numbers. That's tough to do in a market that's as competitive as it is in the US. But, we've also got to remember that Subaru was basically on their own for, what, 30 years, doing the AWD sedan thing? Sure, Audi was in the mix too, but aside from them, it was only "specialty" models from Mazda, Ford, or GM that offered that kind of setup in the US. These days, everyone's got an AWD sedan to offer - proving Subaru's point from the outset.

One thing I'd also consider would be the mountain that Subaru has been able to get over that some of their competition has not - that's repeat buying. Its pretty well known in the US that the average Subaru buyer is very similar to that of VW, Volvo, and (formerly) Saab... Three companies that have struggled to maintain their market share due to poor product planning and too much of a recursive buying structure that didn't bring in new customers. In the US, VW's product strategy is a disaster, and while Volvo's is improving, you sometimes have to wonder how many of their buyers are Saab refuges. Subaru got past the hump by bringing in younger buyers (the WRX is great advertising), mainstream shoppers (Legacy is as reasonable a choice as a Camry now), and the booming crossover buyer (the Forester is still class-leading in some respects). Their lineup is boring, absolutely, but that's what the people who are buying want... But, there is enough of that Subaru soul there to keep their traditional shoppers happy, and many of their products are just quirky enough to bring in curious people, and get them hooked on what has been bringing people in for 30 plus years.


Mazda in the US is an entirely different story. Without the Ford support, they have to be much more careful with product development and execution, and thus far, they've proven to be great at making exceptional cars on a budget. But, when it comes to actual innovation, I definitely feel like Mazda is more or less preaching to the choir - as in, doing what the enthusiasts want, but in a mainstream fashion - that gives the false impression that they are completely class-leading in any shape or form. Clever engineering is clever engineering, and they're arguably the best at it given their smaller pool of development funds. But it isn't like they're reshaping the idea of what needs to be done. Their products are successful because Mazda people want more Mazdas, and they won't shut up about it, and they get people like me who like what the company is doing, to also not shut up about it. In a weird way, Mazda today is pretty much like what Subaru was 20 years ago, doing their own thing and being reasonably successful, but that doesn't make them some kind of special force in the industry.
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Can't agree on that, i think that is entirely market specific.


Here in Australia for example where AWD is given an afterthought and that the only thing that really sells are stylish Small cars and SUVs, Mazda dominates the market.

Infact im pretty sure Mazda has the most marketshare in Australia then any other country Mazda sells in.

Toyotas non commerical cars are declining in the non fleet market and Mazda has basically taken their place, as the private market is completly dominated by the 3.

For example AWD doesn't really mean anything here unless its for a performance car or SUV, so an Impreza has no chance against Mazda 3 and VW Golf when it's essentially a basic styled compact thats inside and out an AWD Corolla without Toyota Reputation.

I think Mazda now has the kind of line up to break into europe but their poor diesel engines let them down bigtime in that retrospect so it's still an uphill battle.

Fact remains Mazda doesn't really make cars that are market specific and apart from the CX-9 you can't really say its aimed at any particular country.

If you look at Subaru it has gained massive traction in US but very stale elsewhere, Mazdas is a steady gain across all countrys basically. And thats what happens when your range is focused on one country and not all.
 
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I wonder what the net worth of Fuji Heavy Industries vs Mazda is. I'm pretty sure Fuji is a much larger company, but I could be mistaken.
 
Well yes but that is not Subaru, Subaru is a Subsidery.

In further research Mazdas revenue is higher then that of Fuji Heavy Industries combined.
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
How do you know that?
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Wiki.

Mazda: 2.6 Trillion Yen
F.H.I: 1.4 Trillion Yen

Both are a few years old at 2011 and 2010 though.

But considering Mazdas profit had over 200 percent increase in 2014 over 2013 I would say its fair that they would maintain that advantage.

Edit:
As of 2014:
Mazda 2.7Trillion Yen projected 3T 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/earnings/earnings.asp?ticker=7261:JP

F.H.I 2.4Trillion Yen, Projected 2.7T 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/earnings/earnings.asp?ticker=7261:JP

So Yes in every meaning of the word, Mazda is larger, sales by nearly Half a Million and size of company which is not only larger then Subaru but its Parent Companies entire operation including Japanese Defense Contracts.
 
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mustafur
Wiki.

Mazda: 2.6 Trillion Yen
F.H.I: 1.4 Trillion Yen

Both are a few years old at 2011 and 2010 though.

But considering Mazdas profit had over 200 percent increase in 2014 over 2013 I would say its fair that they would maintain that advantage.

Edit:
As of 2014:
Mazda 2.7Trillion Yen projected 3T 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/earnings/earnings.asp?ticker=7261:JP

F.H.I 2.4Trillion Yen, Projected 2.7T 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/earnings/earnings.asp?ticker=7261:JP

So Yes in every meaning of the word, Mazda is larger, sales by nearly Half a Million and size of company which is not only larger then Subaru but its Parent Companies entire operation including Japanese Defense Contracts.
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No wonder the GT86 was largely Toyota developed then, as opposed to them adapting an existing car developed entirely by another manufacturer.
 
mustafur
Infact im pretty sure Mazda has the most marketshare in Australia then any other country Mazda sells in.
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I'm struggling to find a good specific number here for Mazda in Australia, but, it looks like they control ~9% of the market as of 2014, whereas in the US, they control an even 2% as of February 2015. I'd be very interested to see how different a regional measure of market share in the US would compare to Australia where weather isn't as much of an issue. As it stands in the US, the Northeast and Midwest are going to have very different numbers than the Southwest and South in general - the only constant being pickup truck and CUV sales.

But, their (Mazda) crossover sales are down 5.5% compared to last year here in the US. I'm struggling to figure out a reason why other than the success of the new CR-V.

mustafur
For example AWD doesn't really mean anything here unless its for a performance car or SUV, so an Impreza has no chance against Mazda 3 and VW Golf when it's essentially a basic styled compact thats inside and out an AWD Corolla without Toyota Reputation.
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Sure, makes perfect sense. Its definitely a weather thing for North America, then.

mustafur
If you look at Subaru it has gained massive traction in US but very stale elsewhere, Mazdas is a steady gain across all countrys basically. And thats what happens when your range is focused on one country and not all.
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Again, it depends on how you want to measure the problem. If you're making money hand-over-fist in the country where the majority of your cars that you sell are produced, they're going to do just fine. Globally, it is very difficult to see who's a clear winner here. Looking at just a few countries where I can see data easily:

United States
Subaru - 3.3%
Mazda - 2.0%

Canada
Subaru - 2.7%
Mazda - 3.2%

United Kingdom
Subaru - 0.11%
Mazda - 1.56%

Australia
Subaru - 3.6%
Mazda - 9%

So, good for Mazda making due with what they have. Same goes for Subaru. Apparently it is a stated goal for Mazda to lock in a 2% market share in a lot of places, and, it looks like they're doing a good job of it. But, both brands aren't anywhere close to the top spots. Subaru is still the weird company that makes models for a very specific type of customer, and to some extend, Mazda has done and will keep doing the same thing. Bonus to Mazda is that those kind of customers tend to buy more of those kinds of cars.
 
05XR8
I'm wondering how 2 sales will be when the CX3 picks up steam.
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Here in the States I'm thinking most of the people who buy CX-3s will be getting AWD versions and those people probably wouldn't be looking at 2s anyway.
 
Keef
Here in the States I'm thinking most of the people who buy CX-3s will be getting AWD versions and those people probably wouldn't be looking at 2s anyway.
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Maybe in the rust belt and in the north east people will go for awd. It makes little sense to buy an awd trucklet in the south, southwest, gulf coast, or on the west coast....which I would say is the majority of US buyers. However, I do think the CX-3 would/will overwhelmingly outsell the 2 in every region in the US, which is why I doubt Mazda will even bother to bring the new 2 to our shores.
 

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