2017 IMSA WeatherTech Sportscar Championship - General Season Discussion ThreadSports Cars 

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catamount39
Yeah the "privateer" Ford's coming in 2019/2020 are only really because the program will then be dropped by Ford. (Curious because "rival", Ferrari, has had undying support of GT categories since forever really...guess Ford can't muster the competitive spirit)
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I wouldn't call what they do in GT "support" per say. At least not on the same level as seen by Porsche, Ford and Chevy. I would say they're about as helpful as Aston is to those that run their cars. In other words not that much, they'll supply you factory drivers and crew but the rest is on you money wise, it's not all that factory, compared to other factory efforts.

DesertPenguin09
The only thing I can think of is so that the LMP2 class cars can cross over to Le Mans. That was an issue this year between the DPi cars and the ICO (Le Mans governing body).

What I don't understand (and this isn't the topic for it but) why is there an ICO when there's the FIA? I thought FIA controlled all official motorsport around the world.
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It's called the ACO not ICO, and it's there because it is the largest automotive group/club in France and has had control and sanctioning of the biggest race in the world (24h of Le Mans) since it was started. So the ACO is never going to not be a thing. @Northstar put it best, really. I mean look at the U.S., you have NASCAR, IMSA, SCCA, USAC and others as well.
 
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I think its abit too soon for that. Its only the first year and of course the Cadillac DPi has been dominant, GM has been the most serious about developing it and building it (while Mazda and Nissan haven't been anywhere close). Its why at Daytona, the WTR car was the most bullet proof of all the new cars (even avoiding the Electrical issues most of the Prototype field had with ECUs). Just seems like VFR and PR1 Mathasen are screaming fowl just because they can't keep up (nevermind that in the one race they had in the US so far, Rebellion managed to keep up more then a few times in a similar Spec Gibson P2 car)

I believe what it truly comes down to is the fact that of all the teams in Prototype, WTR has had the most solid lineup along with the most seriously developed car. Hell, Daytona was basically a GM squad (Taylor brothers, Longtime Chevy driver Gordon and Longtime GM pilot Angelli, who doubles as the liason with Dallara and Cadillac) and then they thrown in a Young Open star for Sebring. Who won Daytona and Sebring in some thrilling stints last year? Ligier Development driver Pipo Derani (behind the wheel of what else, a Ligier). Who was part of the winning combo at Petit Le Mans? Ligier Driver Olivier Pla (who also drives a factory Ford in the WEC). The problem isn't solely with the pace of the cars as two of the P2 teams seem to believe, its the drivers..Well except for Mazda, who just has a crappy engine that for some reason they won't change out. At least its faster then that diesel garbage the brass in Japan thought was a brilliant idea, nevermind it barely lasted in the GT car they had it in years earlier.

Them aside, the problem lies more with the driver combos then anything else. Its not like last year where brute strength and power (DP) conquered Speed and weight (P2) thanks to the drivers, this time its all on the drivers and teams now. Everyone is on equal tires and platform, just everyone else (sorry for the overused meme) needs to git gud. Rebellion showed its possible and looking at Qualifying, another team is beginning to show it. The Cadillacs aren't impossible to keep up, they simply have the best drivers on the grid, period. Until we get the caliber of Pipo Derani on a regular basis in other teams, that's all there is to it.
 
catamount39
IMSA is thinking of splitting up DPi and LMP2, nothing to happen before 2019.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/atherton-split-dpi-lmp2-classes-under-consideration/
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Already posted way above :P


Also to add on a point: People react way too hard to these. I remember reading all the comments when Liberty media were simply throwing ideas on how to spice up F1 yet people were already jumping on the assumption that they are already "Trying to make F1 like NASCAR". "Under Consideration" Does not mean final or that its happening, only that its being looked at.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I wouldn't call what they do in GT "support" per say. At least not on the same level as seen by Porsche, Ford and Chevy. I would say they're about as helpful as Aston is to those that run their cars. In other words not that much, they'll supply you factory drivers and crew but the rest is on you money wise, it's not all that factory, compared to other factory efforts.
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How is what Ferrari does with Michelotto any different than what Chevy does with Pratt and Miller or Ford does with Multimatic? All of them are "factory" cars paid for by the manufacturer and built/run by contracted companies/teams.

As for customer support, Ferrari is on a whole different level than the others. Through AF Corse they will literally run your entire team for you if that's what you wish. Porsche/Aston will go as far as sending engineers/factory drivers, and Chevy/GM don't really have a customer program in sportscars other than Larbre.
 
aarror
How is what Ferrari does with Michelotto any different than what Chevy does with Pratt and Miller or Ford does with Multimatic? All of them are "factory" cars paid for by the manufacturer and built/run by contracted companies/teams.

As for customer support, Ferrari is on a whole different level than the others. Through AF Corse they will literally run your entire team for you if that's what you wish. Porsche/Aston will go as far as sending engineers/factory drivers, and Chevy/GM don't really have a customer program in sportscars other than Larbre.
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Ferrari doesn't foot the bill or development after the initial concept of the car, I said they give support with a team essentially. Such as a driver or set, crew and so on, Aston Martin does the same through prodrive. The difference between those two and factory teams, is the big paycheck signed by the manufacture to run said teams. They just contract a group yes, but they have a deeper attachment than the other two. The cars at the end of the day or Ford, Chevy or Porsche property. Aston and Ferrari are privately owned and not exactly the same. While Ferrari may have a bigger interest in GT than Ford it's solely because of the sales it can make on putting race prepped GT3s on the market that can be converted to GTE.
 
IMSA looking at offering a package to Euro teams so they can come over and run at Daytona and Sebring.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...da-incentive-package-for-international-teams/

Visit Florida Racing reportedly looking at getting a DPi next season (most likely candidate being a Caddy):
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/visit-florida-racing-eyeing-switch-to-dpi/


Also, my thoughts on a class split will be in a spoiler since a class split has already been confirmed as not happening.
There's no need for a split at this time. It was a given early on that the Caddy was the best car being the most developed, and the BoP is far better than it was initially. There also isn't enough manufacturer interest yet as the class is still developing. Now, if it gets to the point of having 5-10 full tilt manufacturers entering, then the series should consider making DPi an LMP1-L and splitting the classes. Now I've made it clear that I want to see LMP1-L as the top class, but theres no reason to do anything until there is enough manufacturer commitment to justify doing so. Besides, as I said, the BoP is far better than it initially was and AXR won this race more with strategy than outright pace.
 
There's no need for a split at this time. It was a given early on that the Caddy was the best car being the most developed, and the BoP is far better than it was initially. There also isn't enough manufacturer interest yet as the class is still developing. Now, if it gets to the point of having 5-10 full tilt manufacturers entering, then the series should consider making DPi an LMP1-L and splitting the classes. Now I've made it clear that I want to see LMP1-L as the top class, but theres no reason to do anything until there is enough manufacturer commitment to justify doing so. Besides, as I said, the BoP is far better than it initially was and AXR won this race more with strategy than outright pace.
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The problem is manufacturer support is a fickle beast and you never know when one will pull out so it's a good idea to build up a strong secondary class. Just look at the WEC, should the LMP1 class completely collapse they have a very competitive LMP2 class to fill in as the top class on a temporary basis at least.

Compare that to IMSA where we have one manufacturer that's probably safe (Cadillac), one that hinges on a guy who is done racing in the class (ESM) and a manufacturer that I have to imagine has a breaking point (Mazda). If all three of them leave for some reason or another and none of the rumors materialize we are left with 3 cars, one of which has their sponsorship in jeopardy (although AXR could put a WEC-spec program together).

I can understand not wanting to do a split pace wise, but it seems like it would be a smart move to start building a strong pro-am field as a fail-safe. As it stands now I don't see that happening considering even if the BoP is good the DPi teams simply have that much better talent so I can see amateurs putting their money elsewhere.
 
AnthonyD1993
Visit Florida Racing reportedly looking at getting a DPi next season (most likely candidate being a Caddy):
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/visit-florida-racing-eyeing-switch-to-dpi/
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It could just be me, but doesn't anyone else find it interesting that this same person who called for a split in PRO is the very same one now wanting a Cadillac DPi, ironically after Visitflorida has decided to end their sponsorship? Its just weird that he barely said much during the whole DP vs P2 argument (and wasn't nearly as picky as Wayne Taylor) but suddenly he's very vocal about this. Seems like he's only interested in saying anything if he isn't on what appears to be the winning side.
 
catamount39
Care to share a prediction on anybody else now? :lol: Well I'm kinda sad at the thought of Helio not being in Indycar, but him here in IMSA would be awesome! :D Looking forward to the Penske Honda in DPi next year, hopefully HPD come up with a good looking aero kit and Penske choose a good livery. :P
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Would HPD do the work or would it be Penske's team of engineers? I thought HPD was just doing the engine/drive train.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Would HPD do the work or would it be Penske's team of engineers? I thought HPD was just doing the engine/drive train.
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Well I'd assume HPD would do it since they've got the facilities and experience from their past LMP1 (not terrible), LMP2 (one good, one horrible) and Indycar (overall decent) projects. But maybe they'd have the Penske guys do it using their facilities.
 
The best thing they could do is let Oreca do the aero work and leave Wirth out of the picture altogether. (Honda Indy aero and HPD 04x whatever it was called were CFD failures)

HPD responsible for drivetrain and Penske would likely do the suspension development would be my guess.
 
Northstar
I really hope Joest joins with Audi so we can have Penske vs Audi II. They had some great battles back than, it would be fun to see how it plays out with them in the same class.
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The WEC needs to take a look at DPI and rethink their LMP1 class. Atleast do something to allow manufactures to enter non hybrids that can compete with the hybrids. The current LMP1 formula is one that needs to be changed soon or it will die out.
 
Northstar
I really hope Joest joins with Audi so we can have Penske vs Audi II. They had some great battles back than, it would be fun to see how it plays out with them in the same class.
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Well and with great IMSA teams that never raced against them because they ran those Dinosaurs (DP) in Rolex back in the day when Penske and Audi were battling, now we get a chance at even more back and forth for the top groups in the series. I would love to see WTR and Penske at it.
 
Joest Audi, or perhaps somebody else? :D Joest Porsche maybe? Or something completely different? Its probably Audi but either way its exciting to see (even as a biased GTE/3 fan) top tier Prototypes in North America being so numerous again.

fortbo
The WEC needs to take a look at DPI and rethink their LMP1 class. Atleast do something to allow manufactures to enter non hybrids that can compete with the hybrids. The current LMP1 formula is one that needs to be changed soon or it will die out.
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Agreed, its funny how people think it won't die out when the costs are rising, and the tools in the FIA/ACO are adding more expensive gimmicks to them that sound like major reliability issues.
 
catamount39
Agreed, its funny how people think it won't die out when the costs are rising, and the tools in the FIA/ACO are adding more expensive gimmicks to them that sound like major reliability issues.
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2020 extra rule change: All LMP1 cars will be required to attach SRBs to their vehicle (space shuttle size) and they must be used for the first hour of the race. (citation needed)

Ok... back on topic...

Just a question that could have some discussion: Is the current DPI formula the best prototype class that would produce great cars and affordable racing?
 
Mike458
2020 extra rule change: All LMP1 cars will be required to attach SRBs to their vehicle (space shuttle size) and they must be used for the first hour of the race. (citation needed)

Ok... back on topic...

Just a question that could have some discussion: Is the current DPI formula the best prototype class that would produce great cars and affordable racing?
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No...because one you don't have limited development and testing before the car is introduced. Two there is a large amount of wiggle room in what can be used. In other words if you develop it just right and spend a nice chunk of change in either power train or aero...you get to be unstoppable. That's not any fault to those who do it, that's on the group that makes the rules. What's great about it it seems is that you can run a top tier prototype series without having to be about cleaner energy. Though I'd argue that hybrid and diesel isn't bad at all for racing, just people tired of seeing it be a dominant thing.

The control chassis seems to be the basis equalizer which is why this is something interesting for manufactures. They have a chassis they can pick, they give someone the aero work to do, and then they develop a power unit that is road car relevant.
 
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