DesertPenguin
(Banned)
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- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
2018 Azerbaijan Grand PrixFormula 1
- Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
- 407 comments
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DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
More like VanBORE amiright? 
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
A blowout on lap 1 at a safety car heavy track is different than a blowout with 3 to go after a safety car.
Alonso was really lucky he didnt suffer terminal damage to the car. That he was as fast as he was despite floor damage and the puncture only suggests he miggt have had a podium shout otherwise. Doesnt bode well for Stoffel though
Alonso was really lucky he didnt suffer terminal damage to the car. That he was as fast as he was despite floor damage and the puncture only suggests he miggt have had a podium shout otherwise. Doesnt bode well for Stoffel though
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- 29,683
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
That is true.
I cannot think of many other double punctures living to finish the race though. One for the trivia thread?
- 5,619
- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
Yeah it’s kinda insane the more you think about it, Lewis got a single rear puncture at Spa and it destroyed his car... Alonso gets a double puncture down one side and still manages to get a good result...
Did anyone see the KMag incident? He got a penalty points for driving one of the Toro Rosso’s into the pit wall which could have caused the debris that Bottas hit??
AshenGraey
Premium
- 1,382
- Canada
- AshenGraey
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's the best race of the year but it was most certainly entertaining with so many unknowns which shuffled things around. I can't wait to see one where you don't have the same old Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull on the podium but other teams as well.
As for Max, I do think they are been a bit too lenient with him. I'm not going to deny that he's got talent and can be a very exceptional driver but right now and as you've said, he is so reckless and frankly plain stupid at times. He said in his commentary that it was fair racing but I don't really see it. From my perspective, that was a double move that he did on Ric and that is not the first time he's done so and I really do believe that this crash was at least 90% his fault. The more I watch him race this season the more I'm noticing him pulling those dirty moves some GT-S racers be pulling.
I was looking for that too when Ted mentioned it in his Notebook but they did not show it in the replays. Probably something that happened in the last laps.
GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
- 21,629
- GTPHQ
This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Michael Leary (@Terronium-12) on April 29th, 2018 in the Formula One category.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
When I think of two drivers that would almost certainly have a crash if they were to have a battle with a clone of themselves, Verstappen and Magnussen come to mind.
The Way they overtly defend would not be remotely compatable with how they attack and would just be a crash every time.
Both are reasonably experienced at this point but don't seem to be learning or willing to accept blame(unless it's plain obvious).
Verstappen has Elite speed on his side but his career can very much go backwards if he doesn't start to have any sort of self reflection, is defending your place always worth the risk of retirement when it's one of the easier tracks to get your place back.
The Way they overtly defend would not be remotely compatable with how they attack and would just be a crash every time.
Both are reasonably experienced at this point but don't seem to be learning or willing to accept blame(unless it's plain obvious).
Verstappen has Elite speed on his side but his career can very much go backwards if he doesn't start to have any sort of self reflection, is defending your place always worth the risk of retirement when it's one of the easier tracks to get your place back.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Learned lessons sometimes have to come outward. He's been pretty pampered by his team, and the stewards for a while now. Everyone regarding him like the second coming of Christ, and always playing the 'he's young' card anytime he does something wrong, when he's into his 4th season in the sport, is going to affect how he sees himself, and how he goes about evolving his driving style, if he does at all.
The more I look at today's incident is the more I'm convinced Ricciardo did nothing wrong. He's pulled that double fake move many times before, he's probably the best at it, but for it to work you have to trust your opponent to follow the rules about moving twice. If he did anything wrong today it was trusting that Max wouldn't move in the braking zone. The stewards ruling it a fifty fifty, and the imminent damage limitation Red Bull will play to defend Max is not going to help him one bit.
The more I look at today's incident is the more I'm convinced Ricciardo did nothing wrong. He's pulled that double fake move many times before, he's probably the best at it, but for it to work you have to trust your opponent to follow the rules about moving twice. If he did anything wrong today it was trusting that Max wouldn't move in the braking zone. The stewards ruling it a fifty fifty, and the imminent damage limitation Red Bull will play to defend Max is not going to help him one bit.
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
One happened on the last lap, after a restart where the field is bunched up. The other happened after the first laps, got a SC to bring the field to a slow pace, then the second tire went as he was coming toward the pit lane. It's quite obvious why one able to slowly return to keep on fighting. The only impressive part was the supposed damaged floor didn't hinder his speed too much as is seen on other cars. Look how fast Vettel fell back in China after coming to blows with Max in an arguably less damaging incident. Though to be fair to Vettel he was on old tires as well and it was late in the race with only and handful of laps to go.
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- Milouse
- Milouse
The fact that the team and the stewards - since it's an internal RB issue - washed their hands about it won't change people mind.
Verstappen late move to the inside could only lead to one thing: a crash. As pointed out by former driver Franck Montagny, by doing that, he led Ricciardo to lose most of the downforce on his front wing, downforce required for an efficient braking.
Ricciardo waited for Verstappen to start moving to the right to go inside, which he planned to do from the start. We don't care if Verstappen moved a lot or not, initiating a change in line was enough for Ricciardo to chose the other way.
Even if one would consider that the Ricciardo move was unusual, it's hard to not imagine that it have been entirely induced by the usual behavior of his opponent.
Rest assure that Jacques Villeneuve never miss him on french TV
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
Although Lauda says its 70% Max's fault I'm probably more likely to change the 'blame balance' more towards Daniel.
To me it looked like licking the stamp and sending it to the inside was a bit of a hail mary and its a case of the devil you know, he should know what his team mate is like... this isnt Webber sticking it to Button or Alonso... if you're gonna send it and the recipient is as unpredictable as Verstappen then what do you expect? Return to sender?
And I have absolutely no love for Max and my favourite driver is Daniel but yeah... nah.. come on son.
I also do blame management too. They should reign that stuff in ages ago... and they had ample examples with Webber and Vettel.
Daniel should know by now that his tactics, awesome as they are, work on everyone else BUT Max.
Stop it.
To me it looked like licking the stamp and sending it to the inside was a bit of a hail mary and its a case of the devil you know, he should know what his team mate is like... this isnt Webber sticking it to Button or Alonso... if you're gonna send it and the recipient is as unpredictable as Verstappen then what do you expect? Return to sender?
And I have absolutely no love for Max and my favourite driver is Daniel but yeah... nah.. come on son.
I also do blame management too. They should reign that stuff in ages ago... and they had ample examples with Webber and Vettel.
Daniel should know by now that his tactics, awesome as they are, work on everyone else BUT Max.
Stop it.
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- GTP_daan
Rule of the road is if you hit someone from behind, it's your fault. Daniel's fault.
Rule of racing is, don't move twice (particularly in a braking zone.) Max's fault.
Both equally at fault, so a racing incident. Sometimes things are just a racing incident with no one person more at fault. This is one of those times.
If you are walking towards someone on a pavement/sidewalk, and you both go the same way at the same time so you're still heading for them, then both go the same way at the same time again to an almost collision. Whose fault is that?
Rule of racing is, don't move twice (particularly in a braking zone.) Max's fault.
Both equally at fault, so a racing incident. Sometimes things are just a racing incident with no one person more at fault. This is one of those times.
If you are walking towards someone on a pavement/sidewalk, and you both go the same way at the same time so you're still heading for them, then both go the same way at the same time again to an almost collision. Whose fault is that?
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The FIA made it clear in the Rosberg Hamilton crash in Spain that if there is no overlap, the car in front can pretty much do what it wants. Therefore Max did what he was allowed to do and Daniel was the one that screwed up.
If they wanted to stop this happening, Rosberg should have had a massive penalty in that race. But it appears that its fine to weave and block madly
If they wanted to stop this happening, Rosberg should have had a massive penalty in that race. But it appears that its fine to weave and block madly
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- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
Rosberg only moved once and not in the braking zone so it’s a completely different situation and not remotely comparable.
There are clear rules about moving in the braking zone because this is what happens, if you wait to close a gap after someone has committed to it you’re going to cause a crash.
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- GTP_TheCracker
I think it's fairly clear that Ricciardo missed his braking marker (either unsighted or distracted) His right front locks up a moment before he impacted Max's car, so he's over pressuring the brake pedal at that point.
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- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
No, he only locked up because Max moved in front so he lost front downforce and probably braked harder to try and avoid contact. Had Max stayed where he was and not closed the gap in the braking zone Ricciardo would have gone up the inside without much trouble.
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- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
It was Max's right to defend his line (whether his moves were within the regulations or not is down to the stewards) and to choose his own braking point. There was still more than a car's width to the inside of Verstappen after he moved to the left but Ricciardo looked to be indecisive as to where to then place his car. He'll be well aware that being behind another car in the braking zone will lose him downforce. As long as Max's 'weaving' is deemed to be within the regulations, then it's simply down to the car behind to not hit the car in front.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
You're talking as if Max is just a force of nature we have to accept. He's not. You're literally holding Ricciardo accountable for daring to cleanly overtake a reckless driver, without holding the reckless driver themself accountable as well. This is part of the problem. Much like this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...1-win-ricciardo-crash-angers-red-bull/9709730
The team are busy dragging Ricciardo through the same mud as Max. He spent all day being faster, while the team stood by and said nothing, not a 'let him through' or even a 'take it easy' when Max stuck his elbows out repeatedly. Put him on the undercut at the few tracks where it isn't the best strategy, and force him to share blame for the whole debacle. Ricciardo should be as good as gone at this point.
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- numbnuts70
I think you'll find the 4/3/2 tyres Alonso 'heroics' has more to do with him keeping his 'clothing line billboard' running on track for TV time than anything else.
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- Western Sydney
- mustafur
As soon as Max jigged to the right he lost all his defence, the only choices he can legally have at that moment is brake where he is or move to the racing line to do so, instead he did the one thing he isn't allowed to do and went left.
The Rules state you can only move once in defence and your permitted an extra move to the racing line for braking, the racing line was to the right of Max anyway so it doesn't apply.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
I get ya and I agree much like this 70/30 thing. We all know Max is the king of making two moves to block people... he does it over and over. Its not like Ricciardo has ever done something like that however I feel that someone like Daniel, being smarter than the average bear, shouldnt put himself in those situations where Max is likely to do the two step.
I suspect some people wont change right away so I expect smart people, like Daniel, to not try it on especially when there's so much at stake.
I have low expectations of Max.
I have high expectations of Daniel.
