2018 Virgin Australia Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars 

  • Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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05XR8
Coupe 60? Anyone? Anyone? ;)
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I'm still confused as to why it never became a production car. Missed opportunity there. Either way the Monaro name needs to be revived, because having a Chevy badged car in the race wouldn't seem right. It would no longer feel like an Australian series.
 
Pete05
If you can find them, watch some of the old races there from the late 80's.
You could run as wide as you dared without the kerb there.

@05XR8
I haven't seen any qualifying so I'll have to wait for the highlights later.
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That's pretty much how they were running it today, behind the curb. Mostert was doing it yesterday in pracrice as well. I'm almost positive it was illegal last year.
 
FPV MIC
That's pretty much how they were running it today, behind the curb. Mostert was doing it yesterday in pracrice as well. I'm almost positive it was illegal last year.
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Not 100% sure on this but apparently it's alright, as long as they come back over the curb and don't drive completely around it.

Or something like that anyway. They seem to make it up as they go along. :lol:
 
Well, that's a good sign. Nissan 1, 2.

@Spacegoat HSV would have had a field day with it. Imagine, at the time, the CTS-V was hot. That was the right time for Holden to serve up a VE/VE II/VF coupe.

The Camaro is an interesting one. That car was initially developed here and GM didn't even waver to offer it in rhd.
 
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Going to skip the race tonight and catch it first thing in the morning. Too tired to stay up. Which means no social media for me until it's over. :P
 
FPV MIC
That's pretty much how they were running it today, behind the curb. Mostert was doing it yesterday in pracrice as well. I'm almost positive it was illegal last year.
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Spacegoat
Not 100% sure on this but apparently it's alright, as long as they come back over the curb and don't drive completely around it.

Or something like that anyway. They seem to make it up as they go along. :lol:
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They should just tell the drivers, use as much track as you like & if you stuff it up, it's on you.
Having to come back onto the track proper via the end of the kerb is just nuts IMO :odd:

05XR8
Well, that's a good sign. Nissan 1, 2.

@Spacegoat HSV would have had a field day with it. Imagine, at the time, the CTS-V was hot. That was the right time for Holden to serve up a VE/VE II/VF coupe.

The Camaro is an interesting one. That car was initially developed here and GM didn't even waver to offer it in rhd.
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Except, as you say, they didn't offer those models in RHD.

If they had to replace the Aussie built Commodore with anything from within the GM empire, IMO it should've been one off the Cadillacs....except they didn't offer them in RHD :rolleyes:

Last I heard, the next gen Camaro will be offered in both LHD & RHD.
 
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Cap'n Jack
Yeah, I just don’t understand why they don’t use the earlier pit entry.
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The earlier entry could potentially be just as bad. If a car was stuck on the outside of another, you can imagine the trouble they’d have trying to get across the track. If a car was spun while trying to get to the pit entry, or if a car had some sort of failure trying to enter, the run off would mean coming back onto the track, and possibly causing a much worse accident.

Badly designed in general really.
 
LumpiestFish
The earlier entry could potentially be just as bad. If a car was stuck on the outside of another, you can imagine the trouble they’d have trying to get across the track. If a car was spun while trying to get to the pit entry, or if a car had some sort of failure trying to enter, the run off would mean coming back onto the track, and possibly causing a much worse accident.

Badly designed in general really.
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You’re right. To add to your points, It’s a blind entry following the crest too, so any incident at entry could be huge. I guess there’s not much you can do. Badly designed indeed.
 
LumpiestFish
The earlier entry could potentially be just as bad. If a car was stuck on the outside of another, you can imagine the trouble they’d have trying to get across the track. If a car was spun while trying to get to the pit entry, or if a car had some sort of failure trying to enter, the run off would mean coming back onto the track, and possibly causing a much worse accident.

Badly designed in general really.
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Yeah, a trip in the air like what Pye had, would be a disaster on wet grass.
 
Pete05
Anytime a car ends up out of control & heading towards the apex of a corner, it's not going to end well.

Think of the Courtney & Premat incident at Phillip Island's Honda Hairpin.
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I remember watching that live and they showed an image of the right hand side of Courtney’s car before anyone knew of his condition, after seeing the caved in door, I thought for sure he was dead. Incredibly lucky he was. The hit was so big that door had hit and moved the steering column.


Hairpin at the Townsville circuit has a line of tyre barriers on the inside of the turn towards to the apex to stop incident like this, and although it hasn’t been needed yet, I think it’s a very good idea. All that is needed is just a single row of tyres on the inside apex of 90 degree and similar turns. Yes, it would cause big damage to the car hitting it, but it would well and truly be less dangerous than T-boning another car. A single row would mean the hit wouldn’t be too severe either and would like not bring the car to a dead stop, but definitely halt most of the momentum.
 
LumpiestFish
I remember watching that live and they showed an image of the right hand side of Courtney’s car before anyone knew of his condition, after seeing the caved in door, I thought for sure he was dead. Incredibly lucky he was. The hit was so big that door had hit and moved the steering column.


Hairpin at the Townsville circuit has a line of tyre barriers on the inside of the turn towards to the apex to stop incident like this, and although it hasn’t been needed yet, I think it’s a very good idea. All that is needed is just a single row of tyres on the inside apex of 90 degree and similar turns. Yes, it would cause big damage to the car hitting it, but it would well and truly be less dangerous than T-boning another car. A single row would mean the hit wouldn’t be too severe either and would like not bring the car to a dead stop, but definitely halt most of the momentum.
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The advances in the design and strength of the Supercar cage & side intrusion barwork, saved one J.Courtney from a more serious fate.
As you say, the door ended up moving the steering column.
It's probably a very fortunate thing that JC had his right hand down, navigating the hairpin at the moment of impact.
Had his hand been caught between door & steering wheel, well that doesn't bare thinking of potential outcomes.
 
Pete05
I just think it's so far removed from a 'traditional' Commodore that they should've dropped the nameplate altogether.
I wouldn't buy one if it was in a 50% off sale & from the sales figures and, the two examples I've seen on the road, not many people are buying them either.

It'll probably end up being the last Commodore because it'll require a totally new architecture to be tested, designed & developed thanks to GM not owning the current platform anymore.
Besides a couple of facelifts (ZC/ZD?), Commodore is the car equivant of a dead man walking.
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Where is the old man yells at clouds picture when you need it. You and your personal feelings on it alone aren't really a reason why it should of been dropped, I don't understand what is supposedly non-traditional about this one that hasn't been seen in others. The Commodore has always been a boring family mid size sedan. And the last couple iterations took their bodies from Opel anyways and have been doing such in certain ways since the 90s. This like cars in the U.S. under GM have been doing the same thing with Opel, and to be honest this is probably one of the better looking Commadore for the base line market.

I get the feeling you see the name and instantly think of the high end of the car rather than what the simple people tend to buy and have bought for decades to allow a high end version to exist.

I'd say any car in Australia that isn't a small size truck, CUV or compacts is at risk of flailing in the market. Holden isn't a special case, and if it was it surely wasn't because of this car. Also pretty sure GM owns the Epsilon platform and Opel will be using PSA platforms, if you know something more on that then let me know.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Where is the old man yells at clouds picture when you need it. You and your personal feelings on it alone aren't really a reason why it should of been dropped, I don't understand what is supposedly non-traditional about this one that hasn't been seen in others. The Commodore has always been a boring family mid size sedan. And the last couple iterations took their bodies from Opel anyways and have been doing such in certain ways since the 90s. This like cars in the U.S. under GM have been doing the same thing with Opel, and to be honest this is probably one of the better looking Commadore for the base line market.

I get the feeling you see the name and instantly think of the high end of the car rather than what the simple people tend to buy and have bought for decades to allow a high end version to exist.

I'd say any car in Australia that isn't a small size truck, CUV or compacts is at risk of flailing in the market. Holden isn't a special case, and if it was it surely wasn't because of this car. Also pretty sure GM owns the Epsilon platform and Opel will be using PSA platforms, if you know something more on that then let me know.
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I have to point out some things with regards to your first paragraph.

Me and my personal feelings are in line with what a clear majority of people I've spoken to, have read about & heard when giving their opinion on the matter.
It's not a popular car by Commodore standards & the sales numbers don't lie.

As far as not understanding what is a traditional Commodore, it fails that mark on several points.
It's a FF layout (with the option of AWD on some models) as opposed to all models previously being FR. If someone wants a FR, they have to look elsewhere.
Same applies if they want a V8. That's always been an option for the last 40 years of Commodores & a Holden option for the last 50 years.

While some would say it's boring & I would agree on some of the base spec levels in Commodore history, it hasn't been seen as a mid-size sector vehicle since the release of the VN in 1988.

Although the platform was Opel based from 1978 - 2005, the body design hasn't resembled anything remotely Opel since 1997. In fact, from the release of the VE in 2006, the car was exclusively designed & developed in Australia.

Looks? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder so what one thinks is beautiful, another might choose to disagree. It's a 'No Sale' from me.

I've owned two Commodores & my family has owned another two. My Brother still owns his.
Neither of those has been top of the range but I did have a Brock replica & if I was buying another, it would be a high end Sports variety. After being burnt with horrible unreliability by my last, I'm happy to stick with my Mazda.

I agree with your opinion of the market in that small hatchback compacts, crew-cab utes & SUVs are the rule these days. It's another case of the sales numbers defining where people spend their money. You're right. Nothing special about Holden there.

Finally, the last I heard GM didn't own the Epsilon platform.
If there's been an update on that situation, I'm not surprised I've missed it. My interest in the car is almost at 0% outside of its involvement in Supercars.
 
Add another one that hates that pit entrance. If they are worried about people spearing off into the corner by using that earlier entrance, they could at least put a wall up to prevent that. And that kurb exiting 7 needs to be adjusted slightly because it's in a terrible spot. The cars are pretty much out of the corner before they even get to it. Makes it pointless.

Edit: Someone on facebook mentioned putting a chicane in made of tires to slow them down on the alternate pit entry, which I thought was a good idea.

Good run for Frosty. All that time he lost being stuck behind Fabian at the start of the race ended up being the difference. Would have been a great run for the win without that.

And Nissan, well...... I may be the only one treating this season like their last. I doubt they are going to stick around with cars qualifying and running in the 20's. Also, I'm going to unsubscribe from emails from Supercars because they spoiled the race for me. :rolleyes:
 
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Pete05
I have to point out some things with regards to your first paragraph.

Me and my personal feelings are in line with what a clear majority of people I've spoken to, have read about & heard when giving their opinion on the matter.
It's not a popular car by Commodore standards & the sales numbers don't lie.
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Okay so you basically are going to pin this on sales, when as already expressed by plants closing, shifting car demographics, and a depleting market which the last gen struggled in. Yeah that doesn't actually apply to your reason of why "sales numbers don't lie". If it did then the previous model wouldn't have struggled sales wise.

As far as not understanding what is a traditional Commodore, it fails that mark on several points.
It's a FF layout (with the option of AWD on some models) as opposed to all models previously being FR. If someone wants a FR, they have to look elsewhere.
Same applies if they want a V8. That's always been an option for the last 40 years of Commodores & a Holden option for the last 50 years.
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What previous models? FF has existed in the models prior. The FR V8 performance model you're basing your entire argument around it seems is a niche and shouldn't be the reasoning for why a car is bad cause it doesn't have it..

The main share of the market (the cars that majority actually get) is what should be the focus. If that means axing away variant that is unnecessary, so be it. The market is moving on, FWD cars are more easy to deal with and more accessible. The whole nostalgia or "back in my day" mentality that rather see stuff die so long as it died with

While some would say it's boring & I would agree on some of the base spec levels in Commodore history, it hasn't been seen as a mid-size sector vehicle since the release of the VN in 1988.
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It was placed under mid size here, which was the same situation with the Omega when sold here under Cadillac. Doesn't change that the entire segment is dying which is why this car is dying. Full size or mid size both are horrible to be in market wise, unless your on the upper end but even then it's not super amazing. Though the Charger seems to do pretty well in it for the past several years.

Although the platform was Opel based from 1978 - 2005, the body design hasn't resembled anything remotely Opel since 1997. In fact, from the release of the VE in 2006, the car was exclusively designed & developed in Australia.
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Changing certain portion shapes and developing a special end version you mean, the baseline cars weren't given nearly as much treatment. Point still stands its origins came from Germany. Seems pretty traditional to me. VE was first exclusively designed and later it had development help from the States and that's why it became a global platform. Also the reason why I think the Camaro should be in Australia because it is the Zeta's last will

Looks? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder so what one thinks is beautiful, another might choose to disagree. It's a 'No Sale' from me.
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Good thing survival doesn't depend only on people looking for V8s rwd sedans

I've owned two Commodores & my family has owned another two. My Brother still owns his.
Neither of those has been top of the range but I did have a Brock replica & if I was buying another, it would be a high end Sports variety. After being burnt with horrible unreliability by my last, I'm happy to stick with my Mazda.
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Which I figured.

I agree with your opinion of the market in that small hatchback compacts, crew-cab utes & SUVs are the rule these days. It's another case of the sales numbers defining where people spend their money. You're right. Nothing special about Holden there.

Finally, the last I heard GM didn't own the Epsilon platform.
If there's been an update on that situation, I'm not surprised I've missed it. My interest in the car is almost at 0% outside of its involvement in Supercars.
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The sales number aren't defining people, so much as the people are defining it and the market is appeasing it. It's a reason GM is looking at this segment in the states and may in a few years be scaling back too just like Ford is going to do.

If the Epsilon was solely designed by Opel then perhaps the former parent company doesn't own it. I don't really understand what a group gets to keep as their own when owned by a bigger manufacture and what they dont. I get it you hate the car and what not, I just find it interesting when people see determined to see something fail because they dislike it. I would figure you'd want to see the nameplate survive in hopes that one day the brand can shift it back to an area that is more in line with your views.
 
http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/hsv-to-assess-camaro-supercar/?sf188905097=1

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R1600Turbo
The problem with the GT-R is that it's already 10 years old. By the time they get it up and running in the series the street car will be up for replacement.
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That's laughably, yet sadly, true. Still, the only driver I'm concerned about, is Simona. Jessica Yates asked Rick about any news, he didn't have any to share. I think, if it were panic stations, Nissan would have to tell Kelly racing the deal was off. This way, KR could source cars. Maybe there is a deal for KR to run Altimas one more year and then, the cars can't be used.

If the MUstang was just beginning last year and HSV are starting now, Nissan need to have done something within that time frame. On the flip, they could pull an Erebus(E63)s and start no later than September, to get a GT-R on the grid for next year.
 
R1600Turbo
The problem with the GT-R is that it's already 10 years old. By the time they get it up and running in the series the street car will be up for replacement.
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Who says it would be this current GT-R? For all we know they could plan development of the next version and help promote it globally by developing their race cars along side it. GT3/GTE, Supercars, Super GT and whatever else.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Who says it would be this current GT-R? For all we know they could plan development of the next version and help promote it globally by developing their race cars along side it. GT3/GTE, Supercars, Super GT and whatever else.
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The other issue I have is how similar the Supercar would be to a GT3. Other than the shifter and some of the body work.
 
4 minutes to go and Simona is in 4th. When the green tyres go on, this should be good.

edit: 5th

Edit 2: Wow. the #17 out. R.Kelly makes it in. Jeez both WAU cars at the bottom.
 
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