2019 W Series

  • Thread starter BrainsBush
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So the driver roster was announced and I have mixed feelings about.

"There’s a huge variety in backgrounds of the list of qualifiers. Among the most recognizable names on the list is Carmen Jorda, a former F1 test driver for Lotus and on the FIA’s Women in Motorsport Commission. There’s also the UK’s Jamie Chadwick, who recently became the first woman to win a British F3 race, having previously been the first female, and youngest, winner of the British GT Championship."

So we have a former F1 test driver....why didn't she got a seat in the 2019 F1 Championship? Why is she in the W Series which aims to get sponsorships for unknown woman drivers?
Then we have Jamie Chadwick, who won an F3 race, and the British GT Championship. Why is she here? To get money? She is already famous!

If there is a big sexism problem in F1 then you can place a woman quota (around 20% would be the max, because there are more male drivers than female), it would be a bit controversial, but at least then they could race with male drivers in equal footing.
 
Dobermann92
So we have a former F1 test driver....why didn't she got a seat in the 2019 F1 Championship?
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She was an F1 test driver for Lotus. Lotus F1 ceased to exist in 2015 (although she did continue in the role for Renault Sport, which bought Lotus, in 2016). That was three seasons ago, and since she's not had a seat in the intervening period, a full drive for 2019 is unlikely...

Her highest level of actual racing is GP3 (2014) and Indy Lights (2010), which is something very much in common with every other female driver.

However, she's a very controversial figure, in that she's had very few notable results of any kind. Her highest GP3 finish was 13th, and that was four places higher than any of her other finishes. She's not well-liked among female racing driver advocates, making comments about women having a physical disadvantage, and would be better in Formula E as it's less strenuous with lower g-forces... and yet she's on the FIA's Women in Motorsport Commission.
Dobermann92
Then we have Jamie Chadwick, who won an F3 race, and the British GT Championship. Why is she here? To get money? She is already famous!
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One season in GP2/F2 costs as much as two seasons in GP3/F3. The prize money for winning W Series covers half of the costs for one season in F2, and Chadwick can already get funding for the other half. Thus by winning W Series she can get the money for a seat in F2.
 
Famine
She was an F1 test driver for Lotus. Lotus F1 ceased to exist in 2015 (although she did continue in the role for Renault Sport, which bought Lotus, in 2016). That was three seasons ago, and since she's not had a seat in the intervening period, a full drive for 2019 is unlikely...

Her highest level of actual racing is GP3 (2014) and Indy Lights (2010), which is something very much in common with every other female driver.

However, she's a very controversial figure, in that she's had very few notable results of any kind. Her highest GP3 finish was 13th, and that was four places higher than any of her other finishes. She's not well-liked among female racing driver advocates, making comments about women having a physical disadvantage, and would be better in Formula E as it's less strenuous with lower g-forces... and yet she's on the FIA's Women in Motorsport Commission.
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So she finished 13th, but she will be sponsored here. What about the 11 drivers who finished before her did they got sponsorship later on? Don't you see the discrimination?
Her statement about woman having physical disadvantage I could agree a bit, especially on endurance series where you have to experience the G forces for a longer period of time.

Famine
One season in GP2/F2 costs as much as two seasons in GP3/F3. The prize money for winning W Series covers half of the costs for one season in F2, and Chadwick can already get funding for the other half. Thus by winning W Series she can get the money for a seat in F2.
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She won the Championship, so doesn't she had the money to start her GP2 career? How can male drivers do it and female ones can't? What if she doesn't win the W Series, she could "stuck" in this series and people will forget her name.
 
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Dobermann92
She won the Championship, so doesn't she had the money to start her GP2 career? How can male drivers do it and female ones can't? What if she doesn't win the W Series, she could "stuck" in this series and people will forget her name.
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What Championship? Are you talking about a hypothetical of her winning the W series? If so that example was explained to you so why you're asking the question that was answered is a waste.

As for if she didn't win said hypothetical, she wouldn't be "stuck" and "forgotten". Luckily for her and many many other drivers the racing world consist of more than just open seat racing. Like the ever expanding touring cars, gt cars (which she has raced before and won in), electric series and on and on. So I think she'll be just fine since she has shown so far to have decent race craft.
 
Dobermann92
So she finished 13th, but she will be sponsored here.
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Uhh, no. She's in the 55-driver longlist. Only 18 will make it to the grid.
Dobermann92
What about the 11 drivers who finished before her did they got sponsorship later on?
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12 - and that was just one race. In her other 42 starts she never finished higher than 17th.

Both of the other female drivers - Alice Powell and Vicky Piria - who finished ahead of Jorda in the standings are also in the 55-driver longlist.
Dobermann92
Don't you see the discrimination?
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Of what?

The concept of W Series is to raise the profile of female drivers (in order to bring more through) and provide funding that female drivers seem to never be able to achieve regardless of their results.
Dobermann92
Her statement about woman having physical disadvantage I could agree a bit, especially on endurance series where you have to experience the G forces for a longer period of time.
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Somebody needs to tell Rahel Frey, Natacha Gachnang and Cyndie Allemann that. Or not, because it's tripe.
Dobermann92
She won the Championship, so doesn't she had the money to start her GP2 career?
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She won the British GT Championship. The cost for a season of British GT is barely a fifth of a season of F2. It's not even close.
Dobermann92
How can male drivers do it and female ones can't?
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Nobody seems to know, but nobody seems willing to sponsor female racing drivers to the tune of $1m they need to race at that level, regardless of talent. They can get the $500k required for F3/GP3, sometimes, but never the next $500k for F2/GP2.

But W Series will give the winner $500k. If that winner is someone who already has $500k worth of sponsorship because she's an F3/GP3 driver, that's enough to take to an F2/GP2 team and get a drive.
 
Dobermann92
So she finished 13th, but she will be sponsored here. What about the 11 drivers who finished before her did they got sponsorship later on? Don't you see the discrimination?
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This was adressed a lot of times. The goal isnt to give women an advantage to male drivers, but put to promote women in the male dominant environment of motorsport. If there is any discrimination in motorsport it is probably that having money and connections will more likely get you further then just raw talent. Many racetalent have been lost in obscurity, because of the lack of funding. A lot of less talented people have been able to race on a high profile, because of connections and lots of money.

As far as I understand thes women will get to be able to drive a full series on a worldstage without the worry of funding etc. And hopefully be a stepping stone (financially) to futher her career in a male dominated sport.
 
SlipZtrEm
The difference is I've not used "people agree with my personal stance" as justification anywhere in this thread.
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Is there a written rule that I need to justify my stance or opinion to your liking? Didn't see it in the fine print. You disagree with me? Good for you, I suppose?
 
Famine
Uhh, no. She's in the 55-driver longlist. Only 18 will make it to the grid.

12 - and that was just one race. In her other 42 starts she never finished higher than 17th.

Both of the other female drivers - Alice Powell and Vicky Piria - who finished ahead of Jorda in the standings are also in the 55-driver longlist.

Of what?

The concept of W Series is to raise the profile of female drivers (in order to bring more through) and provide funding that female drivers seem to never be able to achieve regardless of their results.

Somebody needs to tell Rahel Frey, Natacha Gachnang and Cyndie Allemann that. Or not, because it's tripe.

She won the British GT Championship. The cost for a season of British GT is barely a fifth of a season of F2. It's not even close.

Nobody seems to know, but nobody seems willing to sponsor female racing drivers to the tune of $1m they need to race at that level, regardless of talent. They can get the $500k required for F3/GP3, sometimes, but never the next $500k for F2/GP2.

But W Series will give the winner $500k. If that winner is someone who already has $500k worth of sponsorship because she's an F3/GP3 driver, that's enough to take to an F2/GP2 team and get a drive.
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Okay, only18 will race, I was wrong on that. So she only won one race but never finished higher than 17th. Maybe if she win this cup what is the guarantee that she will be succesful in the male dominated series? Nothing. She could be last but she will be there because of diversity sake. I don't really care, it is good for her but this is pointless.
So let's talk why there is a lack of funding of female drivers. Where is the evidence? Is it because untold sexism or what? I hate this talk "seem to never been able to achieve". Prove that a woman was denied of sponsorship because of a male, then talk!
There are female endurance drivers of course, I didn't mean to hurt them just I stated my opinion about that.

"Nobody seems to know, but nobody seems willing to sponsor female racing drivers to the tune of $1m they need to race at that level"

So they sponsor males because of their private parts or because of their talents?
It would be better to just gave the women the money they needed...than this babysitting method. Or just say "there will be 4 seats in Formula 1 next year, the best 4 female racers could win a seat" then point them according their performance, but WITHOUT segregation. Done.
I won't post any more in this topic because that would include politics which this forum doesn't need of. I just tired of this mentality in everywhere in the world, it saddens me a lot.
 
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Dobermann92
So she only won one race but never finished higher than 17th.
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No, she won no races. Her highest ever finish was 13th. Her next highest finish after that was 17th, which she managed four times.
Dobermann92
Maybe if she win this cup what is the guarantee that she will be succesful in the male dominated series? Nothing.
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There's no guarantee of anything. The 2015 GP2 champion was Stoffel Vandoorne, and the 2014 champion was Jolyon Palmer... Both got absolutely hosed by older team mates in F1 - Vandoorne got outqualified 21 times from 21 by a guy in his last year in the sport and who spent the last two seasons being more of a meme than a racing driver.

That's not what this is about.
Dobermann92
She could be last but she will be there because of diversity sake. I don't really care, it is good for her but this is pointless.
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Uhh, no. If she were there for diversity's sake, she'd already be there.

Teams don't care about talent or diversity. They care about money, because racing cars are expensive - and the only talent they care about is not making it more expensive by crashing things and having the right licence (which you get by racing). A season in GP3/F3 is $500k. A season in GP2/F2 is $1m. A season in F1 is $10m+, easily.

Get a woman with the right licence and funding and she'd get a race seat.
Dobermann92
So let's talk why there is a lack of funding of female drivers. Where is the evidence? Is it because untold sexism or what?
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Where's the evidence of a lack of funding? They're not racing in the seats that require lots of funding!
Dobermann92
Prove that a woman was denied of sponsorship because of a male, then talk!
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No-one at any point has said anything close to that.
Dobermann92
So they sponsor males because of their private parts or because of their talents?
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Nobody seems to know why female racing drivers cannot get the sponsorship required for motorsport above GP3/F3. In fact women are underrepresented at all levels of motorsport, starting in karts, but they have a 0% representation above F3/GP3.
Dobermann92
It would be better to just gave the women the money they needed...than this babysitting method.
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What babysitting method? Making them race competitively for it?

Only part of W Series is the first place prize fund. The other part is to show women racing wings and slicks cars, to encourage more female participation throughout the motorsports pyramid. Giving a crap woman driver enough money to get into a backmarker car in a support series and plodding round at the back for 15 races isn't going to do that - no-one will see it, and anyone who looks at the results will think she sucks.
Dobermann92
Or just say "there will be 4 seats in Formula 1 next year, the best 4 female racers could win a seat" then point them according their performance, but WITHOUT segregation. Done.
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Which F1 team - which are businesses, remember - will be the one willing to wait to see which drivers the FIA will allow them to sign? And how is assigning a seat to a woman not just for diversity's sakes? And where is the $10m+ funding she needs coming from?
 
Famine
No, she won no races. Her highest ever finish was 13th. Her next highest finish after that was 17th, which she managed four times.

There's no guarantee of anything. The 2015 GP2 champion was Stoffel Vandoorne, and the 2014 champion was Jolyon Palmer... Both got absolutely hosed by older team mates in F1 - Vandoorne got outqualified 21 times from 21 by a guy in his last year in the sport and who spent the last two seasons being more of a meme than a racing driver.

That's not what this is about.

Uhh, no. If she were there for diversity's sake, she'd already be there.

Teams don't care about talent or diversity. They care about money, because racing cars are expensive - and the only talent they care about is not making it more expensive by crashing things and having the right licence (which you get by racing). A season in GP3/F3 is $500k. A season in GP2/F2 is $1m. A season in F1 is $10m+, easily.

Get a woman with the right licence and funding and she'd get a race seat.

Where's the evidence of a lack of funding? They're not racing in the seats that require lots of funding!

No-one at any point has said anything close to that.

Nobody seems to know why female racing drivers cannot get the sponsorship required for motorsport above GP3/F3. In fact women are underrepresented at all levels of motorsport, starting in karts, but they have a 0% representation above F3/GP3.

What babysitting method? Making them race competitively for it?

Only part of W Series is the first place prize fund. The other part is to show women racing wings and slicks cars, to encourage more female participation throughout the motorsports pyramid. Giving a crap woman driver enough money to get into a backmarker car in a support series and plodding round at the back for 15 races isn't going to do that - no-one will see it, and anyone who looks at the results will think she sucks.

Which F1 team - which are businesses, remember - will be the one willing to wait to see which drivers the FIA will allow them to sign? And how is assigning a seat to a woman not just for diversity's sakes? And where is the $10m+ funding she needs coming from?
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It is happening no matter what is our opinion about it. You think this will solve issues, I think it doesn't and it is making a bad precedent. We can talk motorsport structures all day but that doesn't lead to anywhere. Encouraging woman is a good think, but if they don't want to participate in more numbers or if they don't push hard enough (men are biologically more agressive when it comes to things) then any effort will lead to nowhere.

I want more woman plumbers but they are somehow isn't interested in plumbing, weird isn't it? I would highly encourage that. Should we fund their schooling too?
 
I can't explain it any more than what's posted above.
Just look at Australian drivers that tried to make it in F1. The ones that didn't. Many, and I'm talking about some legends in that group, say it was too expensive. Too hard to get funding. Let alone how cut-throat it is to get a seat. Those are comments by male drivers.

As many female drivers there are, it's still awareness that helps any driver's cause. FW will aid in that awareness. I'm just repeating what others have posted. There's no other way to explain this topic.
 
Dobermann92
Encouraging woman is a good think,
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I find it rather weird (ok, not really) that pretty much every person I've seen arguing against this series feels the need to include lines similar to this, but never manage to give an alternative idea as to how to attract said females.

Now, whether or not the series manages to accomplish its goal is something only time will tell. But either way I see it as being no worse than any of the other countless gimmicky ways to find a driver.
 
Northstar
I find it rather weird (ok, not really) that pretty much every person I've seen arguing against this series feels the need to include lines similar to this, but never manage to give an alternative idea as to how to attract said females.

Now, whether or not the series manages to accomplish its goal is something only time will tell. But either way I see it as being no worse than any of the other countless gimmicky ways to find a driver.
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I tried to explain some alternatives in the post above. If it doesn't satisfy you it isn't my problem either. I'm happy to have this conversation and not to be censored (which can happen on other platforms, never in gtplanet though). Everything is a money issue nowadays regardless of gender or race, it is called capitalism. I don't think it is fair (regardless of gender or race), but we didn't come out with any better system yet.
 
OJT6627
But besides that, i can't think of any other women that were remembered for getting big wins rather than the fact that they are women in a man's sport (as misogynist as this may sound, my apologies)
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Answer to an old post, but I think nobody mentioned Jutta Kleinschmidt. She won the Rallye Dakar in 2001 which is the biggest win by a female driver that comes to my mind.
 
I am looking forward to this series. I really hope it will take only a few seasons to show there shouldnt be a womens series in the first place.
 
That's a bizarre article. Is it "high dollar open wheel or nothing" kind of attitude? Of all the disciplines, open-wheel is the narrowest one with the absolute fewest career seats available in it.
 
TheElbows
That's a bizarre article. Is it "high dollar open wheel or nothing" kind of attitude? Of all the disciplines, open-wheel is the narrowest one with the absolute fewest career seats available in it.
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I read it as her saying that she'd run out of money to do anything and this was her last shot at a sponsorship opportunity.
 
Dobermann92
If there is a big sexism problem in F1 then you can place a woman quota (around 20% would be the max, because there are more male drivers than female), it would be a bit controversial, but at least then they could race with male drivers in equal footing.
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That doesn't make women drivers better, that just makes F1 worse.
 
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