2020/21 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[MUSC4EVER]

Here are the games for this weekend.

Friday.
Wolves v Leeds (8pm BT)

Saturday.
Southampton v Chelsea (12.30 BT)
Burnley v West Brom (3pm)
Liverpool v Everton (5.30 Sky)
Fulham v Sheffield United (8pm Sky)

Sunday.
West Ham v Tottenham (12pm Sky)
Aston Villa v Leicester (2.05 Sky)
Arsenal v Man City (4.30 Sky)
Man United v Newcastle (7pm BT)

Monday.
Brighton v Crystal Palace (8pm Sky)

It has been pretty lonely here for the past week.

 

[Jimlaad43]

It has been pretty lonely here for the past week.

Probably because there's not much to talk about. Man City have won the league and Fulham, West Ham and Sheffield United are going down. Man U and Leicester are battling for second, and the only interest left in the season is the race for the last CL spot between Chelsea, West Ham and Liverpool. Everton and Villa are also in that battle for Europe, but I doubt they have the form to benefit from the games in hand that would bring them into the race for Europe.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Well a referee did attempt to head butt a player this week...

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Wolves 1-0 Leeds
Southampton 1-1 Chelsea
Burnley 0-0 West Brom
Liverpool 0-2 Everton
Fulham 0-0 Sheff Utd (latest)

Only one place to start really, Everton beating Liverpool at Anfield for the first time since 1999, Richarlison scored after just three minutes and a late Sigurdsson penalty were the goals, Liverpool injury problems continued with Henderson going off in the first half, four straight home defeats for Liverpool now.

Not a huge amount else to talk about, Wolves goal last night was very unlucky for Leeds and their keeper Meslier, the ball came off the crossbar hit Meslier on the back of the head and went in...

 

[redhed17]

Another week where I seemingly don't know what a penalty is or isn't.

Three penalty decisions in the four games today. One decision not given in the Fulham v Sheffield Utd. It was like they learnt nothing from the van Dijk incident earlier in the season where goalie clatters into the player in the box after the opposition players gets to the ball first, and no penalty! If that was anywhere else on the pitch it would have been a foul, so why not a penalty! The pundits on Match of the Day agreed with that one.

The Everton penalty should not have been a penalty imho, though the MotD pundits didn't agree. Sky saw it differently. Calvert-Lewin through on goal with only Alexander-Arnold alongside, C-L has the shot, A-A goes to ground in front of C-L without touching him, C-L then stumbles over Alexander-Arnold, kneeing him in the back of the head in the process before going down. On Match of the Day they said it was a penalty because Alexander-Arnold's foot went up for Calvert-Lewin to catch as he was already going to ground. Well if they counting things after the initial missed 'tackle' by A-A, the knee in the back of the head came before any foot being raised. That the Referee went to the side of the pitch to look at VAR, for about two seconds btw, and still got it wrong, just boggles the mind.

The Everton penalty had little influence on the result though, with Everton deserving to win against a toothless Liverpool. Worrying run of form for Liverpool continues. Everton finally win at Liverpool for the first time this Century. Another injury to a major player too as Henderson looks to be out for awhile with a thigh muscle tear/strain. Liverpool went to their 18th centre back combination as a result.

The Chel$ki was at least a bit more clear cut with all agreeing it was a penalty. Didn't like Tuchel taking off Sub Hudson-Odoi, and then stating it was because of bad attitude and body language. Let's hope that doesn't backfire on the player or the manager.

We are definitely in the age of the double barrelled names in football.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Fulham have continued their recent good form by beating Sheff Utd 1-0, Lookman with the goal.

They are only a few points off Newcastle now albeit having played a game more but they are giving themselves a chance.

One thing I've noticed about Liverpool is that they didn't really resolve their defensive problems during the January window, they left it really late to sign defenders rather than as soon as the window opening which was a bit bewildering, and then perhaps because of that the players they did sign don't look up to standard, Ben Davies hasn't even played yet but Kabak looks out of his depth so far, he is still a decent young player with some potential but he was playing for a team at the bottom of the Bundesliga and was replaced by Shodran Mustafi, which tells you everything you need to know...

 

[redhed17]

I think the last transfer window was difficult for all the clubs because of finances, and I think Liverpool because of nearly going bust with the previous owners, now have owners unwilling to go into great debt. Can't really knock them for that. Pre-Covid, because of the successes on and off field, Liverpool were on the way to being one of the best run and stable clubs with hopefully continued success. Their current position, and likely low finishing position this season, potentially not in any European competitions, will be a setback of a couple of years, and depending on how long supporters are not allowed back, could affect the club for many years.

As for the defenders Liverpool have bought, the jury is out. Kabak could be good in the future, and has not had the best start after being thrown straight in. I think the mix up with Alisson has not helped with how he is being perceived. If Richarlison had run past Henderson yesterday I doubt anyone would have said anything negative. Not sure about Ben Davies because I haven't seen him play yet.

Looking back, I think Fabinho dropping back into defence worked, but after he got injured putting Henderson back there, and taking another regular midfielder out of position was maybe a mistake, even though he did a pretty good job, at some point you have to trust the defenders you have and not weaken the rest of the team. How are they to get experience if they don't play! Sticking two players in there to try and get used to playing together seems like a good idea after the 18 different centre back combinations Liverpool have used so far. But that is just opinion, you have to trust in Klopp has he hasn't done too much wrong so far.

Shkodran Mustafi, mmm, there was a rumour that Liverpool may have gone for him, but I doubt Arsenal fans would have anything good to say about him, as he didn't impress there, and despite being a World Cup winner, yes, really, his career is on the slide at just 28. I consider that a bullet dodged.

 

[Jezza819]

The new match ball they're using looks like BB-8 from Star Wars.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

West Ham 2-1 Spurs.
Villa 1-2 Leicester
Arsenal 0-1 Man City
Man Utd 3-1 Newcastle.

Antonio put West Ham ahead after just five minutes and the Jesse Lingard with a fine strike just after half time, Lucas Moura with a great header from a Bale corner gave Spurs some hope but it was West Ham who got the win, they moved into the top four whilst Spurs stayed in ninth.

Maddison and Harvey Barnes with a couple of great strikes in front of a watching Gareth Southgate put Leicester 0-2 up at half time before Traore got Villa's goal, Sterling struck for Man City after just two minutes when he leapt up for a header (he was probably the smallest player on the pitch!) arsenal had some decent chances but City never really got out of third gear, Arsenal stay 10th.

Man United made another sluggish start but took the lead thanks to Rashford's great run and finish, Saint-Maximin gave Newcastle the equaliser after a good corner routine which they were doing all game and it was 1-1 at the break and Newcastle were looking good, Man United picked things up in the second half and took the lead from a Dan James strike and a Fernandes penalty after Willock brought down Rashford. Shola Shoretire become the seventh youngest player to make his Man United debut at just 17 years 0 months and 19 days when he came on late in the game, he was born in 2004!

 

[Jimlaad43]

Say what you will about the sacking of Lampard at Chelsea, but boy does it seem to have worked. Tuchel has transformed the results of that team.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Your right there, he is yet to lose, big game at home to United next Sunday though...

 

[Dave A]

Another weekend with VAR controversy, @redhed17 wathcing the Liverpool derby I can't understand how Everton were awarded a penalty either. I've seen it a couple of a times and Calvert-Lewin defintely looks to lose balance after catching Trent and start going down before any possible contact by his raised foot was made.

What I don't like is that they go into the minute detail of some decisions and then spend all of 3 seconds on others. I think they should have a 30 second review window for non-violent incidents, if it takes more than 30 seconds to decide if the referee is correct or not then go with the referee. But there's still far too much inconsistency in decisions, even with VAR, and there are still decisions VAR are involved in that are being confirmed were wrong after the fact.

On the Manchester United v Newcastle United game we were the worse team in the first half, but I said to some friends that I doubted Newcastle could sustain that tempo and they couldn't. It all flipped after the hour and Newcastle struggled to keep up. In the end a deserved win for United but not a great performane overall. I think the players we were missing due to injury were noticed, but nice to see Shoretire get his debut.

 

[redhed17]

Another weekend with VAR controversy, @redhed17 wathcing the Liverpool derby I can't understand how Everton were awarded a penalty either. I've seen it a couple of a times and Calvert-Lewin defintely looks to lose balance after catching Trent and start going down before any possible contact by his raised foot was made.

I didn't like that the Referee was told to go and have a look at the monitor and looked for barely a second or two, and of one angle. His mind seemed made up before he went to the monitor, and didn't even give it long enough to see the situation properly imho. I don't think I have seen a referee look at a monitor for so little time. If he knows that he is not going to change his mind, don't bother looking.

What I don't like is that they go into the minute detail of some decisions and then spend all of 3 seconds on others. I think they should have a 30 second review window for non-violent incidents, if it takes more than 30 seconds to decide if the referee is correct or not then go with the referee. But there's still far too much inconsistency in decisions, even with VAR, and there are still decisions VAR are involved in that are being confirmed were wrong after the fact.

There is inconsistency, and VAR for me is taking the life out of the game. Your afraid to celebrate a goal, god know what it is like for the players. I agree with 30 seconds for each decision, if you can't make a decision in 30 seconds with all those cameras and different angles, then it is obviously not 'clear and obvious'.

Because of the way I, ahem, watch the games, I sometimes see different reporting on the games, and there differences between the pundits as to what was or wasn't a penalty, foul etc, and what incidents are highlighted. There was an incident in the Leicester v Liverpool game where Jonny Evans pushes Mane to the floor with with two hands in the back, just before one of their goals, and one game mentioned it, but didn't go back to have a proper look, and another didn't even mention it! It may or may not have affected the result, but that is not the point. What is VAR for if not being used for incidents like that! That's not even a subtle thing. I would rather get rid of VAR, but it doesn't look like that will happen, but at least be consistent and get the obvious things.

 

[Dave A]

I didn't like that the Referee was told to go and have a look at the monitor and looked for barely a second or two, and of one angle. His mind seemed made up before he went to the monitor, and didn't even give it long enough to see the situation properly imho. I don't think I have seen a referee look at a monitor for so little time. If he knows that he is not going to change his mind, don't bother looking.

There is inconsistency, and VAR for me is taking the life out of the game. Your afraid to celebrate a goal, god know what it is like for the players. I agree with 30 seconds for each decision, if you can't make a decision in 30 seconds with all those cameras and different angles, then it is obviously not 'clear and obvious'.

Because of the way I, ahem, watch the games, I sometimes see different reporting on the games, and there differences between the pundits as to what was or wasn't a penalty, foul etc, and what incidents are highlighted. There was an incident in the Leicester v Liverpool game where Jonny Evans pushes Mane to the floor with with two hands in the back, just before one of their goals, and one game mentioned it, but didn't go back to have a proper look, and another didn't even mention it! It may or may not have affected the result, but that is not the point. What is VAR for if not being used for incidents like that! That's not even a subtle thing. I would rather get rid of VAR, but it doesn't look like that will happen, but at least be consistent and get the obvious things.

I think VAR is here to stay, but it's certainly creatiing it's fair share of problems. There are the binary decisions like offside, I don't like the rules of what is and isn't offside, it's over complicated, but I can accept that offside is or isn't offisde and by how much is irrelevant. But the other decisions sometimes baffle me, and what VAR will or won't look at that also baffles me. They won't look at some fouls but they do look at otheers.

Take the Evans push you mentioned not being looked at, there was a game earlier in the season where United won the ball and ran up the other end and scored and VAR looked back and decided that at the start of the move there was a foul so the goal was dissallowed. It's the inconsistency that kills it.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Cricket and Rugby show the right way to do Video Assistant decision making. VAR is run as "someone in another office tells the referee he's got it wrong" and gives the ref chance to overturn that. Bringing in the video screen for the referee to refer to seems to have done nothing to sort out the issues the sport was having last season as perplexing decisions are still being made.

In Rugby, the referee on field asks the Video official to check for fouls in a run of play they may have missed or to check if the foul they want to give was a foul. This works well because it keeps control of the game with the on-field referee, and with a referee mic'ed up to the TV feed, you can actually hear his/her thought process on the matter as it unfolds. The Referee and the Video official then have a discussion about the incident before play proceeds. Yes, it might break up the game a bit, but if the correct decision comes at the end, why complain?

I like what Cricket does. They have all the technology to track the ball, predict the path and check soundwaves for contact. Yes, none of this is needed in Football, but they have DRS - Decision Review System. In the same way Tennis uses Hawkeye, each team/player has a certain number of challenges they can use to go to this technology to challenge the decision of the Umpire. They can be used at any time, but there is a finite number. In the case of inconclusive evidence, they go with the on-field decision as a final result.

This is what football needs. Bring the Captains into the game more and give them a proper responsibility by making them responsible to challenge decisions with VAR. Bad fouls, penalties and cards can be challenged by the captain, meaning VAR stays out of the game until a challenge is made by one of the captains. Give them maybe 3 challenges each per game. There would need to be few enough that the game isn't constantly broken up by captains calling for VAR checks, but enough that captains don't need to fear using a VAR check for the fear of wasting it.

Of course, there will be some captains who blast their way through their challenged in the first 10 minutes because passion gets in the way of sense as they cry about every foul their player commits "isn't a foul", but by putting the onus on the captains like that, they'll quickly learn to be more careful - and it'll reduce the ridiculous simulation and appeals from players when nothing happens to them. If a captain wastes their VAR three times on the same player diving in the box in a month, they'll very quickly tell that player to stop falling over like he's in the Olympics and the game improves.

VAR will still be needed in a search-and-destroy fashion for goals. Offsides need to be looked for and handballs missed in the build up are obvious things that are against the rules, so that stays in. VAR isn't bad - it was being called for for so long in the early 2010s because of how successful it has been in other sports - it's just FIFA once again being unable to bring themselves to the depths of copying a system from another sport. They have to invent something brand new themselves and implement it so badly.

 

[redhed17]

Learning from other sports is all well and good, take the best ideas of course, but the way the other sports work are different to football. Cricket is very start/stop, Rugby less so, but still a lot compared to football. Most of the time those sports have natural breaks in play to look at contentious decisions or incidents, in football a lot can happen in the 10-30 seconds since something occurred.

I don't like the idea of a finite challenges if challenges were given to teams, as you either want all the decisions correct, or you don't. It seems to work in other sports as has been stated, but I wouldn't like the prospect of something not being addressed because someone had used up their challenges. We want the right decisions, but only up to a certain point.

Offside has been overcomplicated for years, and VAR is just using the technology to enforce some stupid facets of an overly complicated system. And if the a lines... assistant referee is 100% sure a player is offside put the effing flag up before someone gets hurt.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

There might be a chance that fans will return to Football stadiums right at the end of the season.

Boris and the government have set out a 'road-map' to relaxing lockdown restrictions and that will start with Schools reopening on March 8th, from May 17th indoor events will be capped at 50% capacity or 1,000 (whichever is lower) and for outdoor events this will be 50% capacity or 4,000 again which ever is lower. For larger outdoor seated venues such as Football stadiums will be allowed up to 10,000 people or to be a quarter full whichever is lower.

So this is from May 17th and the Premier League last day is May 23rd, after that there is the Euros starting on June 11th and at the moment is scheduled to finish at Wembley on July 11th, all lockdown restrictions in the UK will be lifted on June 21st at the earliest.

 

[redhed17]

Great result by Chel$ki against Atletico Madrid. 👍 It was a good match, with Chel$ki having the more clear chances. I know Atletico's form has dipped a bit, but I expected more.

I have to say that Luis Suarez has not mellowed, and if anything is a more nasty piece of work. Lots of nasty kick outs, and the usual hit on the top of the chest, grabs the face type stuff. I know he was no saint at Liverpool, but I think he has got worse. Fans see their own players with rose tinted glass though, and overlook/ignore a lot.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

There is a Champions League thread.

In the one league game Leeds beat Southampton 3-0 and were impressive, Bamford, Dallas and Raphinha with the goals a Leeds move into the top half.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

There is a Champions League thread.

In the one league game Leeds beat Southampton 3-0 and were impressive, Bamford, Dallas and Raphinha with the goals a Leeds move into the top half.

 

[redhed17]

There is a Champions League thread.

In the one league game Leeds beat Southampton 3-0 and were impressive, Bamford, Dallas and Raphinha with the goals a Leeds move into the top half.

I heard you the first time.

The result was a surprise as many have been this season. I expected Southampton to either draw or win, certainly not lose 3-0. Good job I don't bet on things.

Having three Leeds players in Fantasy Football team, including the goalie, and Bamford as Captain, boosted score a lot with this last PL game of the week, especially having played two games.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Here are this weekends games.

Saturday.
Man City v West Ham (12.30 BT)
West Brom v Brighton (3pm Sky)
Leeds v Aston Villa (5.30 Sky)
Newcastle v Wolves (8pm Sky)

Sunday.
Crystal Palace v Fulham (12pm BBC)
Leicester v Arsenal (12pm BT)
Tottenham v Burnley (2pm Sky)
Chelsea v Man United (4.30 Sky)
Sheffield United v Liverpool (7.15 Sky)

Monday.
Everton v Southampton (8pm Sky)

There are seven league games taking place in midweek next week as well.

 

[88GTA]

Terrible luck for Milan drawing Man U in the Europa League. Not what they needed during their worst run of form in a year...

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Man United don't do easy draws it seems...

 

[Jezza819]

West Brom v. Brighton was a weird game. West Brom go up 1-0 early off of a Bartley header. Gross misses a penalty off the top crossbar. Then the chaos starts. Brighton are given a free kick just outside the West Brom. Ball is placed down and referee Lee Mason blows the whistle, Lewis Dunk takes it quickly and puts it in the net while the West Brom keeper is still at the far right of his goal. But Lee Mason had blown his whistle a second time. Players start crowding around Mason and he then indicates the goal stands. Now VAR get involved. Apparently VAR ruled that the second whistle occurred BEFORE the ball had crossed the goal line so the goal doesn't count and the free kick has to be retaken. Nothing comes of that free kick.

Second half Brighton earn a second penalty chance that Danny Welbeck misses off the side goal post. Big win for West Brom and a bad loss for Brighton that could end up costing them dearly at season's end.

 

[Famine]

#ChansiriOut

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Man City 2-1 West Ham
West Brom 1-0 Brighton
Leeds 0-1 Villa

Another win for City and that's 20 consecutive wins for them now, both centre-backs scored for City with Dias and Stones getting on the scoresheet, Antonio with West Ham's goal and they did pretty well, it was a hard-fought win for City.

Kyle Bartley with the only goal for West Brom but as mentioned that by far didn't tell the whole story, an extraordinary game full of incident and that free kick will be talked about for weeks I would imagine, very tough day for Brighton and they have had 65 shots on goal in the last three games and only scored once. The incident could have big implications in the relegation battle.

Didn't see much of the Leeds-Villa game as I was watching the Rugby on the other side, El Ghazi scored on five minutes.

Newcastle v Wolves kicks off at 8pm.

 

[Liquid]

Yesterday: Rob & Ryan publicly announce a £250,000 bonus if Wrexham get promoted this season

Today: Wrexham 4-1 Wealdstone

Not sure if I'm comfortable with the motivation but that's certainly a response.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Leicester 1-3 Arsenal
Palace 0-0 Fulham
Spurs 4-0 Burnley
Chelsea 0-0 Man Utd.

Tough day for Leicester, they started well when Tielemans put them ahead inside 10 mins but then it started to fall apart for them, David Luiz and a Lacazette penalty put Arsenal in front and in the second half Leicester had Harvey Barnes and Jonny Evans off injured when they had Maddison missing as well, Pepe got the winner and Leicester tried to make stuff happen without some of their best players but it wasn't to be, great win for Arsenal.

Dominant performance by Spurs, 3-0 at half time and game over, Bale rolled back the years with two goals and an assist, Kane and Moura with the other goals, Fulham were the better team in their game but couldn't break them down.

Chelsea-United just finished and it was a fairly typical much-hyped game between the top six teams, quite a close game, some decent chances for both teams but no goals, United had some good chances and should've had a penalty in the first half but wasn't really good enough, I'll take a point but we are winless in seven games against the top six this season and only scored once.

Sheff Utd v Liverpool to come, no Alisson for Liverpool after the sad passing of his father this week.

 

[Dave A]

Chelsea-United just finished and it was a fairly typical much-hyped game between the top six teams, quite a close game, some decent chances for both teams but no goals, United had some good chances and should've had a penalty in the first half but wasn't really good enough, I'll take a point but we are winless in seven games against the top six this season and only scored once.

I got the feeling in the first half neither team wanted to lose more than they wanted to win. For brief periods one team went for it more than the other. The best chances fell to Chelsea, but it was overall a very even game. I can't beleive that wasn't a penalty though, hands in the air, the ball travelled quite a way before it his his hand as well, we've had much less conspicuous handballs given against us this season. The inconsistent decision making is ridiculous, though a draw was the fair result.

 

[Liquid]

Once again, games between big teams are absolute :censored:ing dross.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Liverpool back to winning ways in the league with a comfortable 2-0 away win over Sheffield United, Curtis Jones and Bobby Firmino with the goals, it would have been more than two if it wasn't for Ramsdale in the United goal making a string of excellent saves.

Sad to hear about former West Ham and Newcastle manager Glenn Roeder passing away aged 65.