2020 Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 and Spyder Say No to Turbos

[Crash]

Not that I can afford either one of these, but that Spyder looks amazing, and has instantly catapult towards the top of cars I want. Having that flat 6 right behind you with the top down and wind in your hair should be nothing short of spectacular.

If I was to configure either a Spyder or a GT4 brand new, I would do this:

Black interior with dark red accents on stitching, seat belt and gauges, and dark brushed aluminum. I chose yellow for the exterior, but I'm not convinced I want that over Carrera White.


I know Porsche is the king of charging for every single tiny option, some of these options really just need to be included, or be of minimal cost. I get they can charge for it, but something like Apple CarPlay costs $360 to enable when you are paying close to $100k already? Come on.

 

[kikie]

The GT4 could well be the best road/track car ever. Too bad that the road taxes and the registration tax is so ludicrously high over here. You can have a small city car for that kind of money.

 

[Heldenzeit]

Really want one.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Really want one. View attachment 831901

Yes. I mean anything certifiably more exotic than this is just getting into diminishing returns and extreme expense. 414hp was basically supercar power even within my lifetime. A 488 Spider is basically 3x more expensive than this car, and nowhere near 3x more desirable, IMO. I cant overstate how much I love the Spyder. It's just hawt and supreme value. Between this and the LC500. Man...what a $200k garage that would be.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

In depth look at the 718 GT4

 

[kikie]

It is legal in Europe till whenever. It is very, very, very good on emissions. Not only the emissions that are valid today but .............

Sounds good and interesting.

 

[jjaisli]

Well, it’s probably a mistake to post this now, because it’s more than a stone’s throw into the future and a lot of stars will have to align to make this workable, but if the boxes all tick, my intention is to trade in my 2016, 981 Cayman S and place an order for a 718 GT4 in the early spring of 2022—just about two years from now. Wish me luck. And let’s hope the car is still in production then. 👍

 

[Danoff]

Well, it’s probably a mistake to post this now, because it’s more than a stone’s throw into the future and a lot of stars will have to align to make this workable, but if the boxes all tick, my intention is to trade in my 2016, 981 Cayman S and place an order for a 718 GT4 in the early spring of 2022—just about two years from now. Wish me luck. And let’s hope the car is still in production then. 👍

Everyday Driver did a review on the cayman generations. I think they generally thought that the earlier generations were better.

 

[jjaisli]

Everyday Driver did a review on the cayman generations. I think they generally thought that the earlier generations were better.

I subscribe to their channel and I don't see anything. Or was this part of their Amazon TV series?

Either way, as far as I know, there have been some production delays and there haven't been any US market GT4s delivered. Or they're only now just starting to trickle in. So I'm assuming the review was recent?

 

[ProjectWHaT]

From other journalists, all I've heard is the 4 cylinder in the 718 is awful compared to the old engine in the 981. But the GT4 uses a 6 cylinder so it shouldn't be a problem. Also, there's supposedly a GT4 RS coming out "soon"

 

[jjaisli]

Correct. We're talking about the GT4/Spyder here so there are a number of differences between the standard 718 / 718T / 718S or 718 GTS. Not only is the GT4/Spyder's engine different from the rest of the 718 range but the entire suspension and brakes are different and are lifted directly from the 991.2 GT3.

From what I've read, there has been some criticism of the the new engine compared to the previous generation, 981 GT4 from 2016. That's what I thought @Danoff was referring to. People claim it just doesn't sound quite as nice. The 981 GT4 used the same, but slightly detuned 3.8 engine from the 911 Carrera S (of the previous generation). While the current 718 GT4 uses a brand new bespoke flat 6 power plant which is derived from the 3.0 liter from the current 911, but bored and stroked to 4.0 liters and minus the turbos. Plus it has some new bits allowing it to rev higher. I'm not going to judge from a few Youtube videos but from what I've heard, the car does sound a bit different.

I think part of the reason for the disappointment in the sound is because the European versions of the 718 GT4 have new mandatory particulate filters which deaden the sound. They are also responsible for at least 1/3 of the weight increase over the previous generation. It will be interesting to see if the US versions forego the filters and if they sound any different. But I have yet to see a review of a US spec car.

 

[Danoff]

I subscribe to their channel and I don't see anything. Or was this part of their Amazon TV series?

Either way, as far as I know, there have been some production delays and there haven't been any US market GT4s delivered. Or they're only now just starting to trickle in. So I'm assuming the review was recent?

Feb. 2019, titled "Cayman Generations" on Amazon Prime. I'm sure it's not the GT4/Spyder they were reviewing. I think it was 718 GTS.

 

[Crash]

I think part of the reason for the disappointment in the sound is because the European versions of the 718 GT4 have new mandatory particulate filters which deaden the sound. They are also responsible for at least 1/3 of the weight increase over the previous generation. It will be interesting to see if the US versions forego the filters and if they sound any different. But I have yet to see a review of a US spec car.

Everything I've heard, including from reviewers driven European spec cars, all say that the US spec will not have the particulate filters.

 

[jjaisli]

Feb. 2019, titled "Cayman Generations" on Amazon Prime. I'm sure it's not the GT4/Spyder they were reviewing. I think it was 718 GTS.

Well that I can understand. The 718 is based heavily on the 981 and uses 90% of the same components. But there have been improvements. The chassis is a bit more rigid, the suspension was tweaked, the car handles a bit better, the shifter is smoother, the syncros have been improved, the electronic power steering feels more natural, cockpit electronics are more modern. But oh, that engine... I know the 2.0t or 2.5t have more power and a lot more bottom end torque than their 2.7 and 3.4 flat six predecessors, they're faster on paper, but I would never buy a 718 for this reason. The smaller displacement FI engines suffer from lag and non linear throttle response. And in comparison, the flat six is one of the nicest sounding engines out there. I know it's a personal thing but the 4 cylinders in the 718 just sound horrible and they aren't as pleasant to drive. But I'm not alone in thinking this. So it's no surprise that Paul and Todd feel the same way. Paul actually owns, or did own a 981 GTS so it's no surprise that he'd feel the 718 GTS is a step down.

This should start at 2:15 but if it doesn't you can skip to that mark. Nick Murray does a sound comparison of the 718 S vs the 981 S. I think he sums it up nicely. But it's not just the sound. It's the way the engine deliveries power. I realize at this point I'm really old school compared to most people here. I like my sports cars to have power in the high end of the rev range. I like having to wind them out to get power. But I also want them to have a linear power band with great throttle response. And that's exactly what the flat six has and the turbo 4 lacks.



EDIT: Either way, this thread is about the GT4 and Spyder, which are highly modified factory versions of the 718 so I'm sorry for steering it away.

 

[jjaisli]

Well, after speaking to two dealers and lurking around a few forums, the general consensus seems to be that the car will only be in production until the Summer of 2021. Although only Porsche knows for sure. That means if I'm really serious about this, I'm going to have to push things up by a year; it's not impossible but certainly difficult and I'll have to do some heavy budget reconfiguring between now and then.

So I sweated through the process and put down a deposit today, my name is on the list, and I'm rolling the dice to see when an allocation comes up. I'd say it's 50/50 but at this point, without a deposit I don't stand a chance. I'd be happy to be the last man to take delivery. But maybe I'll be the very next guy on the list.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/718-s...ster-spyder-available-with-pdk-by-end-of-2020

The 2020 model year will introduce a PDK option

 

[kikie]

I wonder when there is going to be a new Cayman/Boxter model. It is almost 4 years old.

 

[jjaisli]

I wonder when there is going to be a new Cayman/Boxter model. It is almost 4 years old.

According to Porsche's August Achleitner, (until just recently, head of development for Porsche's GT division) the current car [982 Boxster/Cayman] will stick around until at least 2023. But he made those comments back in early 2019, just shortly before he retired. Perhaps things have changed.

I think the uncertainty over the current emissions regulations and the acceptance (or failure) of the Taycan, put the 982 replacement in temporary limbo. It's been long rumored that the eventual Boxster/Cayman replacement would be electric or at least feature an electric option. So I wouldn't expect a new car sooner than 2023. (Or at least for the 2023 production model run, in late 2022).

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Based on an article from November 1st, 2019, it should be on sale around 2023.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/porsche-718-boxster.341786/page-4#post-12921163

 

[jjaisli]

Yup. Even more reason to buy a GT4 from this generation. And keep it forever. So that one day, my future grand kids, discovering it in my garage and selling it up on my death, will likely either think I was some automotive folk hero or one of the old bastards responsible for destroying the planet. Perhaps it will even create and inter family feud drawn upon just these lines.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I, for one, welcome our new electric overlords

 

[kikie]

The Spyder I saw yesterday in a Porsche Center is a very nice car to look at. The GT4 not so much. Would I want a Spyder? Not really
I would go for a standard 992 instead of the Spyder.

 

[05XR8]

 

[jjaisli]

Well, after speaking to two dealers and lurking around a few forums, the general consensus seems to be that the car will only be in production until the Summer of 2021. Although only Porsche knows for sure. That means if I'm really serious about this, I'm going to have to push things up by a year; it's not impossible but certainly difficult and I'll have to do some heavy budget reconfiguring between now and then.

So I sweated through the process and put down a deposit today, my name is on the list, and I'm rolling the dice to see when an allocation comes up. I'd say it's 50/50 but at this point, without a deposit I don't stand a chance. I'd be happy to be the last man to take delivery. But maybe I'll be the very next guy on the list.

So that was a year ago. Much has changed. (Covid). I'm still on the list. Or...I was. And as I considered buying a new Porsche GT car a once in a lifetime deal, I had really planned to go into this with both feet, YOLO, opting for factory pick-up, spending a few weeks driving around, visiting some old friends from the days I lived in CH/DE, and spend at least a few days at the Nurburgring running laps. That's all changed. Porsche, along with every other German manufacturer, cancelled their factory delivery programs, at least for North American buyers, until further notice. I just had a long conversation with my dealer in January and he can't tell me anything. But the internal rumors suggest that the factory delivery program won't reopen until Q3 at the earliest. He told me that my number is actually coming up soon and I will have an allocation. And if I want to forgo factory pick up, I could have my car by late spring or early summer. It was a bitter sweet moment. And part of me wanted to just push forward. But I REALLY wanted to do factory pick up. I've had my heart set on it and it's been a sort of an ethereal goal of mine for more than 25 years. I've been playing the long game here for as long as I can remember. And I can't help thinking that if I don't do this the way I planned for so long, I'm going to end up regretting it.

So now I have a dilemma. Frankly, a good one to have. I mean, real first world problems here, I'm embarrassed to say. Even if things open up by the summer, I don't want to get on a plane until after I'm vaccinated. And I'm probably going to be around the bottom of the list. Financially, I'm OK. Last year wasn't great. But to be realistic, the fact that I'm still hanging in there and prepared to do this means that I'm better off than a heck of a lot of other people during this pandemic. So in the end, I'm just thankful and consider myself lucky either way. But it doesn't look like the GT4 will be in production longer than the end of this year and then Porsche will switch to the GT4 RS for late 2021/early 2022. Which is an interesting option. Or would be. But I also had my heart set on using both legs and shifting for myself. PDK is great, but not for me. If I want a new GT4 it's now or never. Ugh.

So we went around, and around. A year ago, I thought I was biting off a lot putting a big deposit down on a GT4. It was about to be the most expensive automotive purchase I ever made. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm now on the list for a 992 GT3. Hopefully by the summer of 2022. But that's all up in the air. And I'm sweating all over again and wondering if I've gone mad. I still have until the late spring to fully make up my mind, but I think I already have. I've decided to keep the 981 Cayman S. So I think in the end, getting a 911 probably makes more sense than a 2nd Cayman. And for now, it's back to waiting again. I've been doing it for more than two decades. But one day the pandemic will be over. And I think I'll be glad for the wait. Onward.

 

[McLaren]

So that was a year ago. Much has changed. (Covid). I'm still on the list. Or...I was. And as I considered buying a new Porsche GT car a once in a lifetime deal, I had really planned to go into this with both feet, YOLO, opting for factory pick-up, spending a few weeks driving around, visiting some old friends from the days I lived in CH/DE, and spend at least a few days at the Nurburgring running laps. That's all changed. Porsche, along with every other German manufacturer, cancelled their factory delivery programs, at least for North American buyers, until further notice. I just had a long conversation with my dealer in January and he can't tell me anything. But the internal rumors suggest that the factory delivery program won't reopen until Q3 at the earliest. He told me that my number is actually coming up soon and I will have an allocation. And if I want to forgo factory pick up, I could have my car by late spring or early summer. It was a bitter sweet moment. And part of me wanted to just push forward. But I REALLY wanted to do factory pick up. I've had my heart set on it and it's been a sort of an ethereal goal of mine for more than 25 years. I've been playing the long game here for as long as I can remember. And I can't help thinking that if I don't do this the way I planned for so long, I'm going to end up regretting it.

So now I have a dilemma. Frankly, a good one to have. I mean, real first world problems here, I'm embarrassed to say. Even if things open up by the summer, I don't want to get on a plane until after I'm vaccinated. And I'm probably going to be around the bottom of the list. Financially, I'm OK. Last year wasn't great. But to be realistic, the fact that I'm still hanging in there and prepared to do this means that I'm better off than a heck of a lot of other people during this pandemic. So in the end, I'm just thankful and consider myself lucky either way. But it doesn't look like the GT4 will be in production longer than the end of this year and then Porsche will switch to the GT4 RS for late 2021/early 2022. Which is an interesting option. Or would be. But I also had my heart set on using both legs and shifting for myself. PDK is great, but not for me. If I want a new GT4 it's now or never. Ugh.

So we went around, and around. A year ago, I thought I was biting off a lot putting a big deposit down on a GT4. It was about to be the most expensive automotive purchase I ever made. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm now on the list for a 992 GT3. Hopefully by the summer of 2022. But that's all up in the air. And I'm sweating all over again and wondering if I've gone mad. I still have until the late spring to fully make up my mind, but I think I already have. I've decided to keep the 981 Cayman S. So I think in the end, getting a 911 probably makes more sense than a 2nd Cayman. And for now, it's back to waiting again. I've been doing it for more than two decades. But one day the pandemic will be over. And I think I'll be glad for the wait. Onward.

Reading your post, I was wondering if doing a delivery at the experience facility in Atlanta & running the car through their course was an option, as I guess it'd be the next closest thing to the factory?

But, it sounds like you're going to get the best of both worlds, keeping your Cayman S whilst having the bullet-proof, well-trusted, fan-favorite GT3 on the side. Do you know if your order of summer 2022 will be early in the delivery timeline or a while after? I'm not up to speed on when they expect the first 992 GT3s to reach owner base. I can only guess so far, that the Euro customers will get theirs a couple months ahead of the US buyers just based on logistics.

 

[jjaisli]

Reading your post, I was wondering if doing a delivery at the experience facility in Atlanta & running the car through their course was an option, as I guess it'd be the next closest thing to the factory?

But, it sounds like you're going to get the best of both worlds, keeping your Cayman S whilst having the bullet-proof, well-trusted, fan-favorite GT3 on the side. Do you know if your order of summer 2022 will be early in the delivery timeline or a while after? I'm not up to speed on when they expect the first 992 GT3s to reach owner base. I can only guess so far, that the Euro customers will get theirs a couple months ahead of the US buyers just based on logistics.

Well, no not really. Without trying to come off like a snob, if I would pick up the car in Atlanta, I'd rather just drive over to Braselton and run Road Atlanta. I've run 1/2 the road courses up and down the East Coast over the last 10 years. I'm sure it's fun. But it's not quite the same as factory pick up. And it's why I'm so hung up on it. It's kind of a halo experience for me and I think after so long, I'm just determined to make it happen now.

I can't actually answer any of your other questions. Welcome to the Porsche world of hype and speculation. I hope to know a LITTLE bit more on the 16th, when the car is officially announced. Like, maybe the price. LOL That's a big one. And when the car will actually start production. Another one. But it's likely I still won't have answers to either of those questions on launch day. Speculation is that Europe will start getting cars sometime this summer. North American maybe, if we're lucky, before the end of 2021. I'm not in a rush. I don't need to be the first. I'm not looking to pay some ridiculous ADM. But if I can get the car sometime in the summer/late summer of 2022, I'll be thrilled. We'll see. I'm still afraid that Porsche are going to jump the wagon and price the car significantly higher than the 991.2 version. Frankly they probably could and it wouldn't hurt sales. Except, maybe mine.

I'll tell you an interesting and somewhat sad story. And it goes to show you how the pandemic overwhelmingly affected people with lower income jobs. When things started getting serious last March, I didn't know what was going to happen to the economy and my GT4 order was the last thing on my mind. I figured I'd have to eventually drop the idea completely. But while things were slow, my business did better than I anticipated under the circumstances. And a year later I'm actually hiring. When I spoke to the dealer in January, I thought I would be one of the few people who would still be in the market for a pricey car, actually feeling a bit guilty. And I wondered if my number would come up sooner than anticipated with so many others dropping off. On the contrary, he told me December of 2020 was their best month in history and their biggest problem was lack of inventory. Porsche anticipated a world wide slow down and cut back, particularly in North America. But the opposite was true. With a lot of high income earners, weathering the economic downturn unable to take vacations, they've started spending money on expensive cars--driving around in your own car, one of the few things you CAN do during a lockdown. They had customers almost fighting over whatever cars they had left in inventory, trying to take advantage of the tax breaks before the end of the year. And my dealer told me if he had 50 new 911s on the lot, the last week of December, they would have sold every one of them. Yikes. So I was a bit shell shocked when we talked about switching my allocation over to a GT3 and he told me there were already 12 people on the list in front of me--all for a car that has not yet even been officially announced.

I'm banking on a 5-8% increase in base price over the previous model. More than that and I may have to reconsider.

 

[kikie]

 

[Keef]

There are actually two things they could do to ensure it performs below the GT3: Limit power, and unlike that video creator suggested, give it a manual transmission only. The PDK is worth a notable amount of time around a track and forcing this car to have a manual will limit its performance drastically. It also might actually make the car sell better.

Also, how a native English speaker can say "fah-she-uh" with a straight face I have no idea. That was obnoxious.

 

[jjaisli]

A year ago, I thought I was biting off a lot putting a big deposit down on a GT4. It was about to be the most expensive automotive purchase I ever made. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I'm now on the list for a 992 GT3. Hopefully by the summer of 2022. But that's all up in the air....

I'm banking on a 5-8% increase in base price over the previous model. More than that and I may have to reconsider.

Well, for the record, if anybody cares, it's not up in the air anymore. I'm done. It turns out the increase in base price between the 991.2 and 992 GT3 in the US was about 15%. Ouch. But I was still in the hunt until December of 2021. At that point, after many months of waiting, multiple calls, multiple emails, etc., my dealer finally told me they COULD get me a GT3, build to order (by early spring 2022) but the best they could do for me was $50K over sticker.

I wanted to hang up right there but I told them I would think about it over night. In hindsight, considering that many other people have been paying $75K ~ $100K over sticker for a 992 GT3, it wasn't a horrible offer, taking into account the current state of the car market, let alone the Porsche GT car market. I had been mentally and financially preparing myself that I may get stuck paying an additional $10K or even $20K in dealer mark-up. And I wanted the car badly enough that I was considering it. But $50K? No. I started this game back in 2019 with a deposit on a GT4 at MSRP and at $50K over on a $185K sticker price (+tax) I simply don't have pockets deep enough to play in that sand box. Even if I was crazy rich, I'd find this level of price gouging distasteful.

It was never my intention to buy the GT3 as an investment. But the fact that Porsche GT cars hold their value so well meant that I could buy one, keep it for 5+ years and unless I put 100K miles on it, probably sell it again and still get a decent price for it. But in my opinion, the Covid car economy, inflation not withstanding, is a bubble that will one day burst and I didn't think I would ever be able to justify the $50K dealer extortion fee. So that's that. I'm out. I'd like to say it was fun while it lasted but it wasn't even that. Lesson learned.

There are actually two things they could do to ensure it performs below the GT3: Limit power, and unlike that video creator suggested, give it a manual transmission only. The PDK is worth a notable amount of time around a track and forcing this car to have a manual will limit its performance drastically. It also might actually make the car sell better.

Also, how a native English speaker can say "fah-she-uh" with a straight face I have no idea. That was obnoxious.

Ironically, the GT4RS, built in even more limited numbers than the GT3, is virtual unobtainium. It really doesn't matter what Porsche lists as the base price. Unless you have a relationship with your dealer where you've been buying a new Porsche every year for the last 10+ years, you're not likely to going to get one new from the dealer. My own dealer told me they have at lest 20 (serious) people on their list for the GT4RS and so far they only have one single allocation, which the owner of the dealer is keeping for himself. Good luck to all those who actually want to buy these cars to DRIVE them.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Well, for the record, if anybody cares, it's not up in the air anymore. I'm done. It turns out the increase in base price between the 991.2 and 992 GT3 in the US was about 15%. Ouch. But I was still in the hunt until December of 2021. At that point, after many months of waiting, multiple calls, multiple emails, etc., my dealer finally told me they COULD get me a GT3, build to order (by early spring 2022) but the best they could do for me was $50K over sticker.

I wanted to hang up right there but I told them I would think about it over night. In hindsight, considering that many other people have been paying $75K ~ $100K over sticker for a 992 GT3, it wasn't a horrible offer, taking into account the current state of the car market, let alone the Porsche GT car market. I had been mentally and financially preparing myself that I may get stuck paying an additional $10K or even $20K in dealer mark-up. And I wanted the car badly enough that I was considering it. But $50K? No. I started this game back in 2019 with a deposit on a GT4 at MSRP and at $50K over on a $185K sticker price (+tax) I simply don't have pockets deep enough to play in that sand box. Even if I was crazy rich, I'd find this level of price gouging distasteful.

It was never my intention to buy the GT3 as an investment. But the fact that Porsche GT cars hold their value so well meant that I could buy one, keep it for 5+ years and unless I put 100K miles on it, probably sell it again and still get a decent price for it. But in my opinion, the Covid car economy, inflation not withstanding, is a bubble that will one day burst and I didn't think I would ever be able to justify the $50K dealer extortion fee. So that's that. I'm out. I'd like to say it was fun while it lasted but it wasn't even that. Lesson learned.

Ironically, the GT4RS, built in even more limited numbers than the GT3, is virtual unobtainium. It really doesn't matter what Porsche lists as the base price. Unless you have a relationship with your dealer where you've been buying a new Porsche every year for the last 10+ years, you're not likely to going to get one new from the dealer. My own dealer told me they have at lest 20 (serious) people on their list for the GT4RS and so far they only have one single allocation, which the owner of the dealer is keeping for himself. Good luck to all those who actually want to buy these cars to DRIVE them.

I had a feeling this would happen. I'd bet my local P dealer is doing something similar. Would you consider a Boxster Spyder instead? Seems like a bargain in comparison and they look so good.