2021 FIA Series Race Discussion

[OJBrit]

Made it to lap 12 before hitting the chicane. Fortunately the game decided it was @PirovacBoy fault even though he was a good 100m behind me when it happened

I feel your pain.
It was a good race with lots of fair action. Unfortunately my car suffers a little on the straights meaning I had no hope of catching those ahead, but had to rely on my cornering and braking to keep up. (Not exactly what I'm renowned for.) Door 5, Qualified 6th. A GT-R was right on me out of the first chicane. I backed off for the kink but decided to go for it at the next corner. Got himself through. It was a case of pull away and capitalise on any mistakes ahead. Fortunately there were a few across the race. I came undone after the 458 ahead got a bad run through the esses. I could only place myself towards the outside to give them space. I must have suffered a bit of lag as the car would not turn left as if something was in the way despite the space on my screen. This put me onto the gravel and I spun. Lost 30 seconds and was now in 13th. A couple of people lost it at the COD and I was able to move up another few places. Coming onto the last lap the M4 ahead went wide and caught their slide at the last corner. I was able to come alongside them and should have had the place into turn 1. Alas as I focus on making the corner I wasn't aggressive enough and they hung it around the outside. If I was a bit more aggressive no doubt I'd have been into the wall. I was able to stay close and he made another mistake into the seaside hairpin. I wasn't able to get ahead and this is where my mistake was. I backed off early as there was space behind to do so incase he stuffed it into the COD. This meant I wasn't going my normal speed and turned in incorrectly. Bang... Bang... Spin. (Why always the spin!) Car wouldn't swing round and I lost a couple of places. Crossed the line in 12th. I know I can get more so I will risk the last slot.

 

[OJBrit]

Oh and @Pigems a Citroen won Tidgeny's last race so in the right hands it can do well.

 

[Pigems]

@Pigems
You going in country today?
I’m really on the fence.

Yes Sir, I’ll be talking the Citrus out tonight.

Edit: And now I want an Orange Crush livery for it.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Yes Sir, I’ll be talking the Citrus out tonight.

Edit: And now I want an Orange Crush livery for it.

For a lemon????

Had another go and another.....not an absolutely good clean race. Q10 and after a fair few battle and huge sighs as I just avoided COD I came home 4th again. Had 2 very good battles which unfortunately I won by default, the first guy went off at the esses and the second guy mucked up COD. Still great clean race with some really good fun racing. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead? No I'm enjoying this and another good one and I'm back to B so I'll try this then I really am only using this account for FIA.

 

[NAXEHT]

Q17 to P17, and that’s with two DNF’s on better drivers up front. 106 p. Yawn. Maybe I’m in way over my head? Can’t seem to compete properly, at least in these tyre races.

And what do people think of the points? From my experience, looking at my friends’ leaderboards there are people with DR’s way, way under mine as of right now, bagging more points. Got a concrete example: Tonight at 21:00 CET I entered the race at Seaside with a DR of 64,900, finished as I mentioned 17th and got 106 points. A friend of mine (~26,500) got 117 points for 4th in his lobby. In that same lobby, the 26k lobby, 13th position would get you 67 points. 20th and last in the ~65,000 lobby would get you 66 points.

Maybe I’m wrong here? I don’t know but to me this seems a tad sketchy with how rapidly the points decrease in the mentioned higher lobby.

 

[Tigerhawk87]

And what do people think of the points? From my experience, looking at my friends’ leaderboards there are people with DR’s way, way under mine as of right now, bagging more points. Got a concrete example: Tonight at 21:00 CET I entered the race at Seaside with a DR of 64,900, finished as I mentioned 17th and got 106 points. A friend of mine (~26,500) got 117 points for 4th in his lobby. In that same lobby, the 26k lobby, 13th position would get you 67 points. 20th and last in the ~65,000 lobby would get you 66 points.

Maybe I’m wrong here? I don’t know but to me this seems a tad sketchy with how rapidly the points decrease in the mentioned higher lobby.

Point system is wack. You're light years ahead of me. I got 105 points for 7th in my race and I'm around 28000 DR. They need to encourage people to climb tiers

 

[stpatty]

The point system has always been terrible.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Well got pole and lead for nearly 11 laps, then lost it and came 2nd. Pretty boring race and much harder being in front than following. Didn't make any big mistakes but a few small ones and it was enough for the Huracan to take me, but really clean never tried any stupid moves so still a good race. OH and my 2nd lap was fastest too so pole, fastest and clean

 

[Pigems]

The point system has always been terrible.

Yup, winning split 2 will net you similar points to the guy who gets P5/6 in top split, and so on down the list of splits. It’s stupid. 👍

 

[Famine]

From my experience, looking at my friends’ leaderboards there are people with DR’s way, way under mine as of right now, bagging more points. Got a concrete example: Tonight at 21:00 CET I entered the race at Seaside with a DR of 64,900, finished as I mentioned 17th and got 106 points. A friend of mine (~26,500) got 117 points for 4th in his lobby. In that same lobby, the 26k lobby, 13th position would get you 67 points. 20th and last in the ~65,000 lobby would get you 66 points.

Maybe I’m wrong here? I don’t know but to me this seems a tad sketchy with how rapidly the points decrease in the mentioned higher lobby.

It's not based on your own points, but the points of everyone in the lobby.

Those numbers you've posted all seem just fine to me in any case. What's sketchy about them?

 

[xZoSo46]

Hello guys, does anyone know the day time at Spa with Rain? cant wait... so i want to start practicising

 

[OJBrit]

Had a better race this time, but the end result could have been so so much better if not for 1 idiot.
Door 1 this time. Qualified 6th again. Something strange happened at the start. I didn't follow the guy ahead as closely as I should and started in 2nd rather than 1st. Whilst this meant I wasn't in slipstream at the start I was able to brake closer to my mark (allowing for cold tyres) and this put me back onto 5th's rear a few corners later. This was a constant battle, real good fun. I seemed to be following the Cayman in front through the traffic as people gradually had issues with the battles. Found myself 3rd and 4th throughout the race. The Pole in the lead was eventually caught but he was dirty. One by one the guys who challenged him fell. Then it came to my turn on lap 11. 2nd was backwards in the corner before the PZ. 1st was slow and I guess he must have had a penalty. I took the esses much better and was able to be close into the Seaside Hairpin. I wasn't intending to go for the move but he broke harder than me. Unfortunately he still made for the apex whilst I was up his inside. (Sound familiar.) This pushed me into the invisible wall on the inside. I spun and the car took a while to get off the grass. I was back into 8th. I was able to make a move on a slow Spaniard into the last corner. I couldn't catch those ahead and crossed the line 7th. Better than before but a maybe a win and definitely a podium were on the table. The Pole won though a Russian who drove very well and clean did get ahead on the last lap finished 3rd. I wonder what happened there.
I usually take the FIA's more seriously and wish everyone good luck before the race and congratulate the winner. This time I had to make my displeasure known and called him a word I'd only call someone in private. He responded with a 'Thanks very much' which shows how much he cares.
Ah well, onto the next madness.

 

[Pigems]

Hello guys, does anyone know the day time at Spa with Rain? cant wait... so i want to start practicising

Yes Sir, here’s both series’ full schedules, thanks to @Hasnain282

 

[xZoSo46]

oh thank you! wow so accurate

 

[NAXEHT]

It's not based on your own points, but the points of everyone in the lobby.

Those numbers you've posted all seem just fine to me in any case. What's sketchy about them?

I was pretty sure already but for the sake of being thorough I checked the DR of every single player in that lobby where the average still ended up being ~65,000. What’s sketchy to me is how 17th in that lobby more or less equals ~ 1st - 5th in a lobby that’s nearly 40,000 DR “behind”.

A comparison that springs to mind is, let’s say the past season of league football in England, 2019/20 for instance. Aston Villa placed 17th in the Premier League. Oxford United placed 4th in League One (the third division) and Swindon Town won League Two (the fourth division). It’s as if the performances of Oxford and Swindon were just as good, if not even slightly better than that of Aston Villa. I cannot comprehend how that works.

 

[Famine]

A comparison that springs to mind is, let’s say the past season of league football in England, 2019/20 for instance. Aston Villa placed 17th in the Premier League. Oxford United placed 4th in League One (the third division) and Swindon Town won League Two (the fourth division). It’s as if the performances of Oxford and Swindon were just as good, if not even slightly better than that of Aston Villa. I cannot comprehend how that works.

Well, Swindon Town and Oxford United got more points too; in fact Swindon got more points than Manchester United... but they couldn't win the Premier League (which I assume is the FIA World Finals in this analogy) because they weren't in it. Unless you think teams outside the Premier League shouldn't get 3 points for a win, because their opponents are worse, it's not a particularly good comparison.


The FIA series does judge your opponent strength though. FIA points are directly proportional to the DR score of the lobby (it's something like 5% of the mean DR). Each position then gets a fixed percentage of those points, which I recall is something in the region of 10% for first and reducing by just under 0.5% for each place behind that. It's pretty simple, based entirely on opponent strength, and you're not going to be heading to World Tour events by winning in DR B lobbies.

 

[The359]

Streaming with a Toyota 86

 

[stpatty]

Well, Swindon Town and Oxford United got more points too; in fact Swindon got more points than Manchester United... but they couldn't win the Premier League (which I assume is the FIA World Finals in this analogy) because they weren't in it. Unless you think teams outside the Premier League shouldn't get 3 points for a win, because their opponents are worse, it's not a particularly good comparison.

Why are you making this comparison when you know it's irrelevant? GT players are all on the same leaderboard. The issue of lower split drivers receiving more points for results has been known and discussed for years. The issue of high ranked players tanking their rating to go into lower splits and earn more points has been discussed here for years. World Tour drivers have posted about it on here and offered solutions.

 

[Famine]

Why are you making this comparison when you know it's irrelevant?

I'm... not? It was made to me, and I'm pointing out that it's not a good one - FIA does give fewer points for beating worse opponents, which the English Football League doesn't do...

... yet. Don't give them any ideas either.

GT players are all on the same leaderboard. The issue of lower split drivers receiving more points for results has been known and discussed for years. The issue of high ranked players tanking their rating to go into lower splits and earn more points has been discussed here for years.

Yes, it's definitely the case that someone who can't do well against 19 maxxed out A+ drivers can (and likely will, given that they lose points to 19 other players, even if those players won't gain any), drop down a few DR, get paired with some 65k players and nab as many points as they would have done if they'd finished top six against the 100k drivers. I'm not sure how sustainable it is as a tactic - has anyone qualified to a WT this way? - but I guess with dropped races it could be a thing.

To my mind there's a pretty obvious solution: a bracket multiplier (say... 1x for D/E, 1.2x for C/B, 1.5x for A, 2x for A+) and a much narrower A+ class, if these are supposed to be the top drivers. Interestingly, football does use bracket multipliers, for ranking international teams; you get fewer ranking points for beating a team from Oceania than from South America.


I'm not sure why this has come up though. I only asked what @NAXEHT thought was "sketchy" about it. Not liking how it's done is fine, but "sketchy" implies there's something dodgy going on, and as far as I can tell the lobbies cited are working exactly as they're planned to with no shenanigans. The math all checks out to me.

 

[HaydenFan69]

I think the overlap is absolutely appropriate. Provides a better points battle as it rewards those lower rated a chance at a higher ranking if they win races.

I’d question if it was “sketchy” if it didn’t have an overlap. Thatd imply a built in mechanism to keep new players from reaching the top.

 

[NAXEHT]

Well, Swindon Town and Oxford United got more points too; in fact Swindon got more points than Manchester United... but they couldn't win the Premier League (which I assume is the FIA World Finals in this analogy) because they weren't in it. Unless you think teams outside the Premier League shouldn't get 3 points for a win, because their opponents are worse, it's not a particularly good comparison.


The FIA series does judge your opponent strength though. FIA points are directly proportional to the DR score of the lobby (it's something like 5% of the mean DR). Each position then gets a fixed percentage of those points, which I recall is something in the region of 10% for first and reducing by just under 0.5% for each place behind that. It's pretty simple, based entirely on opponent strength, and you're not going to be heading to World Tour events by winning in DR B lobbies.

In that analogy (which has its faults, I know) I meant PL being the highest splits, not a FIA World Final.

No, of course Oxford, Swindon and the other teams in those leagues should still be getting three points for a win and one for a draw, regardless of division. The point I was trying to get across with said analogy was that I find it strange to have the performances of Oxford and Swindon regarded as equal or slightly better than Aston Villa’s performance, knowing that Villa’s opponents were much, much stronger teams.

[...]

I'm not sure why this has come up though. I only asked what @NAXEHT thought was "sketchy" about it. Not liking how it's done is fine, but "sketchy" implies there's something dodgy going on, and as far as I can tell the lobbies cited are working exactly as they're planned to with no shenanigans. The math all checks out to me.

Very well, “sketchy” in the sense that something’s dodgy going on is perhaps not exactly what I meant. I suppose the system and the math works the way it’s constructed. Maybe “unjust” is a word better describing what I’m trying to say.

 

[Bohn101]

If I got 157 points in Round 1 today, starting 5th and won the race, should I race the additional rounds?

If you do worse in later rounds, will you lose your awesome 1st place points?

 

[Famine]

If I got 157 points in Round 1 today, starting 5th and won the race, should I race the additional rounds?

If you do worse in later rounds, will you lose your awesome 1st place points?

Only your final entry for each round counts. That means that if you choose to race again and get disconnected... zero points.

 

[AmyUD06]

Decided to give FIA another try today, mostly because I love Dragon Trail Seaside. Much better experience today...after I purposefully dropped down to DR-C using the daily's earlier in the day.

Qualified 18/19 due to messing up and not realizing that you get 3 laps; had my time from practice counted I would've been mid-pack. Made my way up to 8th by lap 11 with some good back and forth with two other drivers, until I get punted hard into the wall at the final chicane. Engine and suspension damage. Down to 12th. Limp my way around, trying to fight back, but overbrake myself going into the hairpin before the two chicanes near the end and drop another position, finishing 13th. Oh well, still a new record finish for me LOL.

I'll definitely be giving the next round of Manufacturer's Cup a shot, and will likely skip Spa. Nations Cup...definitely sitting out the Kart race but will probably give the rest a chance if I can make the schedule.

Thanks to everyone here for the encouraging words to keep me at it.

 

[Bohn101]

Thanks so much for the quick reply. So if I got 1st in the next 4 races, it wouldn’t do anything (for the FIA specifically). Just wanted to be crystal clear and not skip the rest being extra dumb.

Only your final entry for each round counts. That means that if you choose to race again and get disconnected... zero points.

 

[HaydenFan69]

If I got 157 points in Round 1 today, starting 5th and won the race, should I race the additional rounds?

If you do worse in later rounds, will you lose your awesome 1st place points?

Take the points and enjoy the rest of your night. That’s a good haul, plus a win. That win won’t count unless you replicate on another attempt.

 

[Bohn101]

“That win won’t count unless you replicate on another attempt.”

What the heck does that mean? Sound like I need another 1st place??

 

[Famine]

Thanks so much for the quick reply. So if I got 1st in the next 4 races, it wouldn’t do anything (for the FIA specifically). Just wanted to be crystal clear and not skip the rest being extra dumb.

There's a chance you might improve - after all, you won, so you'll have gained DR and might get paired with higher DR drivers for more points if you also win - but I'd take the W and do something else instead for the evening.

 

[Pigems]

I think the overlap is absolutely appropriate. Provides a better points battle as it rewards those lower rated a chance at a higher ranking if they win races.

I’d question if it was “sketchy” if it didn’t have an overlap. Thatd imply a built in mechanism to keep new players from reaching the top.

There should be some overlap, just not as much as there is now is all.

Also, I just had my worst race in a long time, died at the CoD 3 times, twice bad enough to spin me right around.

 

[Nismonath5]

I was a bit hesitant about racing at Seaside in the GT-R. It just seemed a bit sluggish compared to its rivals, and the death chicane seemed to be a hit or miss most times.

One strong qualifying, epic 4 way battle for the lead and last lap dominance later....

I guess the lesson here is "You never know how it'll play out. Just enter the race."