2023-24 Formula 1 Off-Track Thread

[Veinz]

I keep seeing things online about Ocon getting benched for the Canandian GP. Seems far fetched but I would not be surprised. Alpine are ruthless and Ocon just cannot get along with any of his team mates, this has to catch up to him eventually.

 

[McLaren]

Checo to be sign an extension with Red Bull?

According to information from Motorsport-Total.com, Sergio Perez is about to extend his contract with Red Bull Racing. Helmut Marko had recently indicated that they would like to have a clear picture “by Barcelona” as to whether the Mexican will be allowed to stay or not. And as of today, everything indicates that this could be sealed in the next few days or weeks.

Because: Of the in-house squad drivers, only Yuki Tsunoda is currently considered for the A team thanks to his outstanding performances in the RB. According to Marko, 2024 will be “the first season in which he is consistently fast and has his emotions under control.” But he also has to prove this “in the long term and consistently”. So, if anything, more with a view to 2026.

Until recently, the only real alternative to Tsunoda was Carlos Sainz, who was not allowed to stay at Ferrari and whose management recently knocked on Red Bull's door. But according to information from Motorsport-Total.com, Red Bull has now canceled the Spaniard. This in turn suggests that the talks with Perez are well advanced.

Marko had already said in Imola in an interview, which YouTube channel on the Formula1.de can be seen as a video , that it was "a logical consequence that we agreed on further cooperation." And Christian Horner also describes Perez as “very popular in the team and he started the season well.”

Even though Monaco was "a brutal weekend" for Perez with the exit in Q1 and the crash in the race , the team boss praises: "His first six races were very strong. Often on the front row of the grid, usually second or third in the race. There "We just have to get back there. He's very focused and he feels comfortable in the team."

Horner: “Checo is a priority for us”​

Perez can only take himself out of the Red Bull cockpit, Horner suggests between the lines that there may no longer be any real alternatives that the team is seriously considering. He explains: "There is a lot of interest in our cars, as you can imagine. But for us, Checo is a priority."

Mistakes like the one in qualifying in Imola “shouldn’t happen, but they did,” analyzes Marko. But: "This is not a structural problem. He is fast enough and has also improved qualifying this year." Perez is therefore "in a good position" for 2025, says the motorsport consultant and, when asked, specifies: "I wouldn't say in pole position. But in a good position."

Perez's management, as we hear in the Formula 1 paddock, has also submitted its application folder to Audi. But that would only be Plan B. "I'm completely relaxed," says the Mexican in an interview with Sky . "I'm already happy with what I've achieved in Formula 1." In his opinion, the new contract is “only a matter of time.”

In Miami, where he almost got rid of Verstappen with a harakiri attack, Perez came within inches of endangering his future. He was just lucky in the situation. In Monaco he was just a passenger in the collision with Kevin Magnussen on lap 1. And his gap to Verstappen in qualifying was the usual three tenths of a second.

What speaks for Perez is that he seems to have resigned himself to not being able to beat Verstappen: "He has changed his attitude," confirms Marko. "He's now taking over Max's set-up because he knows that's the fastest. You can't beat Max because you're using a different set-up. You just can't beat Max. That's just the way it is."

After Red Bull cancellation: What does Sainz do now?​

The imminent agreement between Perez and Red Bull for another season also means that Sainz now has to look elsewhere. According to information from Motorsport-Total.com , the outgoing Ferrari driver will make his decision as soon as the Perez deal has been officially announced.

After Red Bull's rejection and Mercedes' announcement that the decision there won't be made very soon, Sainz still has two realistic offers on the table: a longer-term one from Audi, a short-term one from Williams. And Sainz is said to be leaning towards Williams because he would be more flexible there at the end of 2025 should opportunities arise for him elsewhere.

In addition, Sauber was by far the slowest team in the field in Monaco and Williams scored their first championship points there. With an overweight car , which Sainz can also see as positive: If the designers manage to get rid of the excess pounds for 2025, Williams could be noticeably more competitive than in 2024.

In addition, the respective teammate could also play a role in his considerations. From their time together at Renault, Sainz knows that Nico Hülkenberg is a tough nut to crack. Alexander Albon, on the other hand, didn't see any land against Verstappen and then "only" swept away Latifi and Sargeant, but is still much more hyped than Hülkenberg.

The decision about Sainz's future has not yet been made. Audi may improve the offer by agreeing to a one-year contract with the option of two more. Then Sainz could become weak. It is said that his father Carlos Sr. would like to work with the Volkswagen Group, with which he himself has close ties.

Perez vor Unterschrift bei Red Bull, Sainz jetzt doch zu Williams?

Die nächsten Dominosteinchen fallen: Sergio Perez wird aller Voraussicht nach bei Red Bull bleiben, Carlos Sainz überlegt noch zwischen Williams und Audi

www.motorsport-total.com

A a couple theories I've been reading is basically down to either: A) Horner loves Checo & Horner won the internal struggle. Or the other that I think makes more sense in B) Checo has major marketing appeal in his region. Danny Ric has not performed well either, but there was also a story that Danny was a major factor for RB's sponsors & thus, the belief during that report was RB won't be letting him go, either.

As I read another comment, Red Bull has dropped past drivers for less, so clearly Checo (& Danny I suppose) bring more to the table for Red Bull than just driver talent.

 

[Veinz]

B) Checo always gets a lot of support in the races over here. Ricciardo is washed up, sadly.

 

[Liquid]

Perez probably should be shifted on but I can understand retaining a driver because of marketing appeal. Sainz is a Spanish speaker as well though.

 

[Spacegoat]

I keep seeing things online about Ocon getting benched for the Canandian GP. Seems far fetched but I would not be surprised. Alpine are ruthless and Ocon just cannot get along with any of his team mates, this has to catch up to him eventually.

Alpine is a total clown show but put Jack Doohan in for the rest of the year, I say*.

*Not Australian biased at all.

Probably.

 

[Grand Prix]

The Indy 500s weren't Formula One races so outside parental ownership such as Chrysler owning Lamborghini at the time and the obvious loophole of Ford being the financial backers of English Cosworth engines, have there actually been American engines in Formula One before? It would be interesting to see a genuine American engine in the sport which only adds to the attraction that Andretti would undoubtedly bring.

The Brabham BT19 which won the driver's championship for Jack Brabham and Denny Hulme used an Oldsmobile V8 that was originally intended for a passenger car, disguised and modified as a Repco V8. They were perhaps better prepared than anyone else in the '66 and '67 seasons, which saw a increase in displacement from 1.5 to 3 litres. The Cosworth DFV powered Lotus 49 was faster but was let down by reliabillity issues. Incidentally, 1967 was one of those rare and noteworthy seasons which had many different race winners, the others being 1982 and 2012. Ferrari, Honda and Eagle-Weslake all had very competitive designs in 1967.

Brabham-BT 19 (Repco)

Brabham-Repco BT-19 Car: Brabham-Repco / Engine: V-8 Oldsmobile / Maker: Brabham / Bore X Stroke: 88.9 X 60.3 mm / Year: 1966 Capacity: 2,996 cc / Class: Formula 1 / Power: 315 bhp at 7,800 rpm / Wheelbase: 91 in Track: 56 in / Weight: 1,259 lbs / Tires: Originally 13 in front and rear were...

sportscardigest.com

 

[-Fred-]

Also of note, the Mercedes engines in the Saubers back in the mid 90s were built by Ilmor, an American company, but branded as Mercedes-Benz engines. Tyrell and Leyton House also used Ilmor engines at some point in the early 90s.

 

[Liquid]

Also of note, the Mercedes engines in the Saubers back in the mid 90s were built by Ilmor, an American company, but branded as Mercedes-Benz engines. Tyrell and Leyton House also used Ilmor engines at some point in the early 90s.

I'm pretty sure that Ilmor was a British company with significant operations in the US.

 

[-Fred-]

I was pretty sure that Ilmor was a British company with significant operations in the US.

You are absolutely correct, somehow Google for some reason gives their Michigan plant as the base of the operation...

 

[Grand Prix]

Of course, if you want to expand the scope of the question to include the pre-WW2 years, there was plenty of American manufacturer involvement in the early years of international competition: Locomobile, Miller, and Duesenberg, to name a few.

Locomobile Type 1906

Locomobile Type 1906 Car: Locomobile Type 1906 / Engine: 4 Cylinder / Maker: Locomobile / Bore X Stroke: 177.8 mm X 177.8 mm / Year: 1906 / Capacity: 17,657 cc / Class: Grand Prix / Power: 90 bhp at 1,050 rpm / Wheelbase: 112 inches / Track: Front: 53.2 inches Rear: 53.2 inches Described by auto...

sportscardigest.com

 

[Veinz]

Lawson's hopes of return dwindle as RB are "very happy with both drivers"

Liam Lawson's hoped of making a full-time return to F1 are fading as RB indicated they are satisfied with their current driver line-up.

www.racefans.net

It would actually piss me off of he didn't have a seat next year. This guy has shown nothing but loyalty to Red Bull and proved he had what it takes against Tsunoda. Ricciardo is washed up.

 

[toastet]

Just a mess with Horner and Marko in charge.

 

[Fezzik]

There’s still time for him to get a seat there. Yuki obviously isn’t one of Horner’s boys and could follow Honda out the door (maybe AM finally move Lance aside - to the Valkyrie Le Mans project? - in 2026).

 

[EngieDiesel]

There’s still time for him to get a seat there. Yuki obviously isn’t one of Horner’s boys and could follow Honda out the door (maybe AM finally move Lance aside - to the Valkyrie Le Mans project? - in 2026).

Yuki is pretty closely aligned with Honda so I wouldn't be surprised if he followed them out to Aston, though i have a feeling it may be in the reserve/test driver capacity at least for 2025. Although I also wouldn't be surprised if Alonso had his eye on that vacant Mercedes seat, and if he has doubts about a change of engine suppliers who knows where that may end up going. Wouldn't be the first time a driver bought their way out of a contract for a change of scenery after all.

 

[McLaren]

Yuki is pretty closely aligned with Honda so I wouldn't be surprised if he followed them out to Aston, though i have a feeling it may be in the reserve/test driver capacity at least for 2025. Although I also wouldn't be surprised if Alonso had his eye on that vacant Mercedes seat, and if he has doubts about a change of engine suppliers who knows where that may end up going. Wouldn't be the first time a driver bought their way out of a contract for a change of scenery after all.

Based on the reports concerning the recent Silverstone test session that involved Russell & Antonelli being very close on qualifying pace and Russell being out-classed on long-run simulations, everything seems to point to Antonelli getting that seat. Hamilton & James Allison have both spoken highly of him, and he's young enough for Mercedes to stay competitive with both guys into the next gen era of cars.

 

[toastet]

Merc is probably 99% fixed with Antonelli since Max isn't available for 2025 after the Horner and RB Thailand cases seem to have cooled off.
Looks like also Vowles will go with a Albon + another experienced driver/race winner (Bottas, Sainz, probably Perez) solution instead of Antonelli for Williams.
Alpine seems wide open and I would love if they'd do the "risk" version taking Doohan + Mick since the french national team thing just didn't work out. Ocon is 100% toast while keeping the mostly slower of the pair with Gasly also doesn't make really sense and getting lay offs like Zhou, potentially Magnussen, etc. while having young talents to test in a probably again mediocre 2025 season is a low risk with more to win than to loose.
Depending on the sponsoring funds Zhou can maybe get the foot in the door at Haas besides Bearman.
VCARB will continue or Lawson will be in.
Stake/Audi will probably go with Sainz if available or maybe Gasly, don't think they want a rookie while needing to make huge progress. Rumours seem that Seidel is not a Ocon fan (like probably now all teamchefs) so I don't think he'll get a seat in 2025. Let's not forget that this already was his second chance in F1 after beeing Totos PA for one year.

There will be many 1 year + option contracts for 2025 and the actual situation will go on repeat next year.

 

[RACECAR]

Looks like also Vowles will go with a Albon + another experienced driver/race winner (Bottas, Sainz, probably Perez) solution instead of Antonelli for Williams.

Realistically, this feels like the most workable solution for Valterri. He knows the team AND he Knows Vowles so he AND Albon would be guaranteed to give Williams way more points on a regular basis (assuming the menace that is Magnussen doesn't decide to randomly send one of them spearing into a wall again)

 

[McLaren]

Merc is probably 99% fixed with Antonelli since Max isn't available for 2025 after the Horner and RB Thailand cases seem to have cooled off.
Looks like also Vowles will go with a Albon + another experienced driver/race winner (Bottas, Sainz, probably Perez) solution instead of Antonelli for Williams.

I think Williams wants to go with Sainz based on what I've read of them meeting multiple times already. Perez looks like a lock for Red Bull, and the other rumored team is him going with Sauber & staying there when Audi comes in.

Alpine seems wide open and I would love if they'd do the "risk" version taking Doohan + Mick since the french national team thing just didn't work out. Ocon is 100% toast while keeping the mostly slower of the pair with Gasly also doesn't make really sense and getting lay offs like Zhou, potentially Magnussen, etc. while having young talents to test in a probably again mediocre 2025 season is a low risk with more to win than to loose.

TMU, Gasly has an option to remain 1 more year at Alpine should he & the team feel comfortable with each other. I feel like Renault will keep him just so there's at least some familiarity with the team & they can stick with the "French driver in a French car" image.

Depending on the sponsoring funds Zhou can maybe get the foot in the door at Haas besides Bearman.

The current belief is that KMag may likely remain there based on a quote he gave during an interview earlier this month regarding Nico's leaving.
"Honestly, I thought it would be Nico and me again next year". He added that he has not talked yet with Gene about an extension, but said he's very happy with the team & wants to continue building together.

Of course, with the way he's been going, I guess there's a possibility they want him out of the car.

VCARB will continue or Lawson will be in.

Yuki is happy with his current position & claiming he's very loyal to Red Bull. And they won't dump Daniel because of sponsorship money. I agree with others that Lawson is getting screwed.

Stake/Audi will probably go with Sainz if available or maybe Gasly, don't think they want a rookie while needing to make huge progress. Rumours seem that Seidel is not a Ocon fan (like probably now all teamchefs) so I don't think he'll get a seat in 2025. Let's not forget that this already was his second chance in F1 after beeing Totos PA for one year.

There will be many 1 year + option contracts for 2025 and the actual situation will go on repeat next year.

I think it's likely to be Sainz as well if he & Williams can't come together on a deal. There was assumptions Sainz would also want to stay with Sauber b/c of Audi and his father's connection to them. But, from what I recently read, Sainz Sr. just moved to Ford.

 

[MagpieRacer]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/exclusive-f1-in-livery-push-for-2025-to-make-cars-look-all-different/10617350/

Ways to make F1 colourful again being explored. I think it's good that they're addressing it, definitely the dullest looking grid, saved by some excellent special liveries.

The helmet issue is an interesting one, people complaining that it's hard to distinguish drivers, but also complained when they banned helmets being changed every race. What I would do for this one is have the halo painted in that drivers helmet colours. So from external angles it's much easier to identify them and adds another splash of colour to the cars.

 

[Famine]

What I would do for this one is...

... a decal that looks like the driver's face covering the entire nose/front wing assembly.

 

[MagpieRacer]

... a decal that looks like the driver's face covering the entire nose/front wing assembly.

That would be worth it just for the shot from the back of a car that Ricciardo dive bombs, just a gurning Ricciardo flying towards the camera.

 

[McLaren]

Maybe more drivers can do what Lewis has done with how he used his highlighter yellow gloves. Helped pinpoint which Mercedes was his last year quite easily.

The helmet issue is an interesting one, people complaining that it's hard to distinguish drivers, but also complained when they banned helmets being changed every race. What I would do for this one is have the halo painted in that drivers helmet colours. So from external angles it's much easier to identify them and adds another splash of colour to the cars.

Never knew that. Esp. with the last couple years. 2023, I think half the grid had at least 7-9 different helmets over a 22 race season. I know Bottas & Gasly definitely had 9.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Maybe more drivers can do what Lewis has done with how he used his highlighter yellow gloves. Helped pinpoint which Mercedes was his last year quite easily.

Never knew that. Esp. with the last couple years. 2023, I think half the grid had at least 7-9 different helmets over a 22 race season. I know Bottas & Gasly definitely had 9.

Yeah they did it in 2014 or 2015 I think, Vettel was quite prolific with a different design every race so F1 clamped down, limiting it to just 1 special design per season. Since 2020 it went back to being do what you want helmet wise.

 

[Liquid]

Changing helmets is so rubbish. Michael Schumacher had one significant change in his entire F1 career (I prefer the pre-2000 helmet). Doing it once in a career and doing it permanently is so much more significant and impactful than changing it like a haircut.

If I think of Montoya, Alesi, Barrichello, Häkkinen, Ralf Schumacher, Hill, Frentzen, Brundle, Senna, Lauda, Jos Verstappen... I can just see it. Alesi even copied his from de Angelis much like Hamilton used to with Senna. A trademark, signature helmet is, to me, far more marketable and memorable than several specials that usually look like someone vomited on it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Changing helmets is so rubbish. Michael Schumacher had one significant change in his entire F1 career (I prefer the pre-2000 helmet). Doing it once in a career and doing it permanently is so much more significant and impactful than changing it like a haircut.

If I think of Montoya, Alesi, Barrichello, Häkkinen, Ralf Schumacher, Hill, Frentzen, Brundle, Senna, Lauda, Jos Verstappen... I can just see it. Alesi even copied his from de Angelis much like Hamilton used to with Senna. A trademark, signature helmet is, to me, far more marketable and memorable than several specials that usually look like someone vomited on it.

Agreed, they're iconic and frequently copied for a reason. Fernando Alonso must be the only current driver whose helmet hasn't changed much?

 

[-Fred-]

Most helmet designs on the grid are just extra advertisement space anyway, or are designed to incorporate the sponsorship, like the abobination that Gasly ran at Imola a few years ago.

The days of instantly recognisable helmet designs are sadly behind us.

 

[Veinz]

Alpine F1: Rob White sacked as operations director

Alpine sack veteran operations director Rob White in the latest example of management turmoil at the French team.

www.bbc.com

The 58-year-old had been at Alpine's parent company Renault in Formula 1 for 20 years, and in the role of director of operations at their Enstone factory since 2016.

He was sacked by team principal Bruno Famin, with the factory told of the decision on Wednesday.

They're going to have a hard time attracting new people to their team by running it like this. They would have to be pretty desperate for a job, because why would anyone want to work for Renault if there are other options on the table?

I don't even really blame Famin, he's under enormous pressure too. It all comes from the very top, they expect a prime rib dinner with the budget of a happy meal.

 

[TheCracker]

Between high sided cockpits and the halo, not to mention the amount of sponsorship required on them, you barely see anything of the helmet design when the drivers are on track. I'd be hard pressed to identify any driver's current helmet design aside from any sponsorship clues.

 

[Famine]

I don't even really blame Famin, he's under enormous pressure too.

Wait, what have I done now?

 

[Liquid]

Wait, what have I done now?

I was waiting for an oppertune moment in the caption competition to talk about Bruno Famin.