2024 Ferrari F80 - LaFerrari replacement (F250)

[McLaren]

So it was a road car that was better at both the road and racing than a race car? The F40 is legendary don't get me wrong, but it wasn't all that good of a car.

The F40 was also a near-decade old by the time McLaren took the F1 racing in '95. The F40's origin story is from a race car (288 GTO) designed for Group B b/c they wanted to use the 4-liter Class to prove the true performance of their cars. But, as history shows, Group B was killed before it could be completed, & the only reason it continued is b/c Enzo wanted a legacy car before his death. According to them, they purposely made it as raw & unforgiving b/c there was a view that Ferrari cars were getting soft, & those 2 traits are reportedly linked back to races cars lead engineer Nicola Materazzi raced.

“We wanted it to be very fast, sporting in the extreme and Spartan,” he [Giovanni Perfetti, Ferrari marketing] says. “Customers had been saying our cars were becoming too plush and comfortable.

The F40 is for the most enthusiastic of our owners who want nothing but sheer performance. It isn't a laboratory for the future, as the 959 is. It is not Star Wars. And it wasn't created because Porsche built the 959. It would have happened anyway."

I mean, your view that it wasn't all that good of a car were not uncommon during its initial reviews. It had a lukewarm reception with different views of why it was even built. Gordon was not fond of the build quality being reminiscent of outdated technology, but others exclaimed that was what made it such a terrorifying and fun car to drive b/c it was just a go-kart with a Groupe B engine in it.

 

[Tornado]

So it was a road car that was better at both the road and racing than a race car? The F40 is legendary don't get me wrong, but it wasn't all that good of a car.

The BPR field when the F1 showed up was a ragtag group of privately converted cars of varying levels of spec and age, all based on cars that all had much lower base performance than the F1 (which itself had to be detuned). There was even a Pantera and Countach kit car competing in the class. The only other factory backed cars in the series were only interested in entering the annual Suzuka 1000KM race. The cars that were notably faster than the F1 after its debut (like the factory Esprit team) rarely managed to finish races, and the BPR itself proved completely incapable of balancing the series around the F1's immediate dominance (which only got worse the following year) which led to many most of the interesting cars that had made up the field in the first season and the start of the second flaking out before the second season was over with. When Ferrari itself actually woke up and said "let's deal with the F1 directly" they then saw what Porsche was about to do and said "nah."

 

[deththrasher]

You need to take another look then. In your market, F8s are selling for £200,000-£250,000 from what I'm seeing. 296s are commanding £215,000-£300,000. My statement remains the same; the markets are on par with each other with people willing to pay over the car's £245,000 MSRP to get one now, which signifies there is demand for it.

And yes, there has been moving goal posts. This discussion started with you claiming that the 296 has "sold less than expected" which was debunked because the car is sold out through 2025. Then, you tried to argue about the used market vs. new market values/demand against an older model, which has no bearing on the car's current sales numbers & Ferrari crediting it with their current sales success, but even then, that claim is not correct.

I'm not really interested in what forums you're reading & you choosing to reshare their views that are nothing more than emotion-based than factual. I read the same opinions on Ferrarichat; a good chunk of their members are nothing but old heads longing for the days of Testarossas & shady money. These are the guys appreciating the F8's V8 against the 296's V6 trying to pretend they're not the same people who whined when Ferrari decided to twin turbo the V8 and "kill" the sound of the N/A.

"Pulling the heart strings" is as I said before; akin to the crying about Ferrari killing the manuals b/c the market decided they were not cost-efficient. If you want that coveted F154 V8 from the F8, the Roma is right there & significantly cheaper. Or one can splurge for the SF90. But, if that V8 was so important & the decision to downsize to a V6 was so bad, why isn't the Roma suddenly outselling the 296? Because the market & the people who actually buy these cars do not care.

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy

I don't think you're making the right argument. The V6 is totally fine for the 296GTB and from most accounts, it's a really good car. I think there is an argument that the same engine isn't, however, appropriate for a F## car. I would love for Ferrari to build an engine rivaling the N/A brilliance of Cosworth's latest efforts, but then again the F40 had a lot of character because of it's small displacement turbo engine. For me it's too early to tell, but I don't think the 296GTB is relevant to the conversation.

I actually really like the 296, it's my favourite modern Ferrari by far. But I was just correlating the perceived notion that it isn't quite as revered as the higher piston cars of the past. Though of course as it's a baby Ferrari it can get away with it, but the F80 with a 6 pot is just not emotional enough for a hypercar Ferrari IMO.

 

[TheCracker]

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy

In the UK market at least, there are dozens for sale between £190k and £215k ('22 and '23 models) with less than 5k on them. They're a £241k car before you add any of the expensive options which are often spec'd and which can quickly push the prices towards £300k. There are a good handful with 'delivery' mileage for sale just below retail and that's before you look at what options were added.

So at this stage of their cycle, they're definately dropping in value.

 

[VinylRichie]

This one won’t be as memorable as its predecessors, it is obvious that something is missing in its overall design that the ones before had. That’s how I personally feel about this car, and in this case I’m pretty sure that it won’t grow on me with enough time passing by, there’s a deeper problem with its design for me

 

[Omnis]

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy






I actually really like the 296, it's my favourite modern Ferrari by far. But I was just correlating the perceived notion that it isn't quite as revered as the higher piston cars of the past. Though of course as it's a baby Ferrari it can get away with it, but the F80 with a 6 pot is just not emotional enough for a hypercar Ferrari IMO.

It's not really about that-- it's just that the 296 is fugly and the most popular Ferraris are classic designs that will never not look good.

 

[Keef]

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy






I actually really like the 296, it's my favourite modern Ferrari by far. But I was just correlating the perceived notion that it isn't quite as revered as the higher piston cars of the past. Though of course as it's a baby Ferrari it can get away with it, but the F80 with a 6 pot is just not emotional enough for a hypercar Ferrari IMO.

These modern exotics by Ferrari and Lamborghini are not rare or special cars. Depending on the city you go to, you could see a dozen of them in a day. Ferrari is making more and more of these things, and completely random wealthy people and celebrities who don't care about the investment value of exotics gobble them up and resell them as fast as they can. They're just cars.

 

[McLaren]

These modern exotics by Ferrari and Lamborghini are not rare or special cars. Depending on the city you go to, you could see a dozen of them in a day. Ferrari is making more and more of these things, and completely random wealthy people and celebrities who don't care about the investment value of exotics gobble them up and resell them as fast as they can. They're just cars.

Additionally, these cars are also just stepping stones. If you've never bought a new Ferrari before, your odds of getting a 12Cilindri brand new are near zero unless you've been "investing". Californias, Portofinos, Romas are the quickest ways to build a résumé with your local dealer.

 

[deththrasher]

It's not really about that-- it's just that the 296 is fugly and the most popular Ferraris are classic designs that will never not look good.

I'd rake the 296 styling over the F8 tributos personally. Always found that overly aggressive. Nothing beats the pininfarina cars though. Compare La Ferrari to the F80, what a downgrade in beauty.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Since Nobody asked:

Beautiful ---| 308 > 355 > 360 > 348 > 458 > 296 > 328 > 430 > 488 > F8 |--- Techgnar Dystopia
550 > 575 > 599 > 12C > 812 > F12

 

[Keef]

Since Nobody asked:

308 > 355 > 360 > 348 > 458 > 296 > 328 > 430 > 488 > F8
550 > 575 > 599 > 12C > 812 > F12

360 > 355 > 550 > 575 > 308 > 458 > 456 > 296 > Enzo.....frankly most of the others are so ugly they don't matter.

 

[Jump_Ace]

He nailed it when he said they are adding/making things that we never asked for. TRUTH.

I'm going to see if i fit in a Emira tomorrow and if that goes well, I'll put myself on a list sometime in 2025. It could be one of the last modern, real mccoy ICE sports cars 🤷‍♂️


Jerome

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Since Nobody asked:

Beautiful ---| 308 > 355 > 360 > 348 > 458 > 296 > 328 > 430 > 488 > F8 |--- Techgnar Dystopia
550 > 575 > 599 > 12C > 812 > F12

360 > 355 > 550 > 575 > 308 > 458 > 456 > 296 > Enzo.....frankly most of the others are so ugly they don't matter.

Ferrari Enzo > every other Ferrari.

 

[MIE1992]

As far as the hypercars go? Here's how'd I rank 'em:

F50 > LaFerrari > Enzo > F40 > F80

I don't really include the 288 GTO since it seems like a very special case, being both a homologation special and basically a heavily-modified 308.

 

[VinylRichie]

As far as the hypercars go? Here's how'd I rank 'em:

F50 > LaFerrari > Enzo > F40 > F80

I don't really include the 288 GTO since it seems like a very special case, being both a homologation special and basically a heavily-modified 308.

I would rank similarly, but I couldn’t decide if the F50 or The LaFerrari would be on #1, both are very beautiful in their own way imo

 

[MIE1992]

I would rank similarly, but I couldn’t decide if the F50 or The LaFerrari would be on #1, both are very beautiful in their own way imo

Honestly, it's amazing that Pininfarina never misses, even when they do stuff well beyond car design, like architecture, logo design - anything. They've been around for nearly a whole century, too. It's almost like they've been using some sort of magic.

 

[Ryan81]

There's something timeless about the V12 engine. It's almost a staple of Ferrari 'halo' history. I can understand why many are thinking WTF with a 6 cylinder engine and the design is somewhat....radical/unorthodox.
But I guess the world has moved on, as Roland Deschain would say ☺️

 

[VinylRichie]

Honestly, it's amazing that Pininfarina never misses, even when they do stuff well beyond car design, like architecture, logo design - anything. They've been around for nearly a whole century, too. It's almost like they've been using some sort of magic.

Yeah absolutely, I’m a huge fan of Pininfarina, my favorite design studio, it’s just the minimalistic, perfect lines that just seem so natural but at the same time so elegant and almost divine on some of their cars (like the 250 GT Lusso imo). And they achieved to create designs which responded to the times they released in, but at the same time were timeless and made their very own thing, never got too caught up with current trends, kept their design language which is especially remarkable in Ferraris case as it’s such a long time.
I don’t know, but you can always tell that it’s a Ferrari over all the decades, but I can’t put my finger on it why, a unique thing Pininfarina achieved, no other design studio worked so closely and influenced to this degree a single manufacturer over such a long time, Ferrari brought the perfection in Engineering and Pininfarina in design, that’s maybe why Ferraris are so special.

But I have to say there’s one car in Pininfarinas history for me where I don’t feel that magic, which is even kind a ugly to me😅, the Rolls-Royce Camargue😬

What really surprised me was when I learned that the LaFerrari wasn’t designed by Pininfarina, I think could absolutely fit into their Portfolio, Ferrari did a really good job in keeping that design language. I would even say that the LaFerrari is one of the most beautiful Ferraris ever, it’s like a sculpture to me, and I say that as a big fan of classic cars who normally doesn’t care much about modern cars.

 

[Disco_Volante]

The lack of a V12 isn't a problem for me. I'd say it has the same problem that almost every Ferrari has had for a very long time, which Jeremy Clarkson put into words perfectly in his review of the 599.

"Technically, [the 599 is] brilliant. I respect it hugely, in the same way that I respect the technology in my iPod. But I don't love it."

"The 599 is just a bucket-load of science and maths. This, this 275 is what matters. It has a heart, and soul."

I'd say the same about the F80. A V12 would have made it more popular among the community, but I'd still feel the exact same way. And I know for sure because to be honest, I feel that way about the LaFerrari and the Enzo too. Don't get me wrong, I like all three of them. But I don't love them, irrespective of their engines.

 

[deththrasher]

@McLaren

A couple of podcasts I listened to at work today seemed to also mention troubles with the 296s FYI






They Intercooler also mention Ferrari F80 soon to be owners aren't actually that happy with the car, take from that what you will. The whole podcast is interesting and they discuss why there is so little fanfare about the car compared to its predecessors.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

@McLaren

A couple of podcasts I listened to at work today seemed to also mention troubles with the 296s FYI






They Intercooler also mention Ferrari F80 soon to be owners aren't actually that happy with the car, take from that what you will. The whole podcast is interesting and they discuss why there is so little fanfare about the car compared to its predecessors.

If I was paying 3 million for a car as ugly as the F80 I would be mad to.

I fully respect the numbers this car may output but not the looks of it.👍

 

[Vermeil]

I respect other people's opinions and i don't argue about personal tastes, but in my honest opinion this car is beautiful and in my perspective doesn't deserve all this hate. It has a V6 that comes from the Ferrari 499P that won Le Mans twice in a row, with 900hp a with a specific power of 300 hp/litre, the highest on a production car at the time of its debut, accompanied by three electric motors that together deliver a total power of 1200hp. I don't mind that it's also a silent car, it gives it an elegant aura, as well as being pleasant during travel. (Always in my opinion)

Since its first appearance on the streets i have been attracted and intrigued by its aesthetics, unfortunately i can't afford it otherwise i would have bought it. I can't wait for it to arrive in some video game (would also be fine also as a mod for AC) so i can drive it and have fun with it!

To even say that it's ugly is an exaggeration, there are really ugly things like the Fiat Multipla and Chrysler PT Cruiser, but to say that the Ferrari F80 is seems a bit exaggerated to me. 🤔

 

[MSZ]

I respect other people's opinions and i don't argue about personal tastes, but in my honest opinion this car is beautiful and in my perspective doesn't deserve all this hate. It has a V6 that comes from the Ferrari 499P that won Le Mans twice in a row, with 900hp a with a specific power of 300 hp/litre, the highest on a production car at the time of its debut, accompanied by three electric motors that together deliver a total power of 1200hp. I don't mind that it's also a silent car, it gives it an elegant aura, as well as being pleasant during travel. (Always in my opinion)

Since its first appearance on the streets i have been attracted and intrigued by its aesthetics, unfortunately i can't afford it otherwise i would have bought it. I can't wait for it to arrive in some video game (would also be fine also as a mod for AC) so i can drive it and have fun with it!

To even say that it's ugly is an exaggeration, there are really ugly things like the Fiat Multipla and Chrysler PT Cruiser, but to say that the Ferrari F80 is seems a bit exaggerated to me. 🤔

This car reminds me of the prototypes in the late 80s and early 90s. I think the design will age well.

 

[JC_Dude]

with a specific power of 300 hp/litre, the highest on a production car at the time of its debut

I guess I could be off on my definition of a production car, but the Koenigsegg Jesko makes 1600hp from a 5l engine, which translates to 320hp/litre. The Mercedes AMG ONE engine makes 574hp from 1.6l, which is even more per litre.