2024 Ferrari F80 - LaFerrari replacement (F250)

[McLaren]

So it was a road car that was better at both the road and racing than a race car? The F40 is legendary don't get me wrong, but it wasn't all that good of a car.

The F40 was also a near-decade old by the time McLaren took the F1 racing in '95. The F40's origin story is from a race car (288 GTO) designed for Group B b/c they wanted to use the 4-liter Class to prove the true performance of their cars. But, as history shows, Group B was killed before it could be completed, & the only reason it continued is b/c Enzo wanted a legacy car before his death. According to them, they purposely made it as raw & unforgiving b/c there was a view that Ferrari cars were getting soft, & those 2 traits are reportedly linked back to races cars lead engineer Nicola Materazzi raced.

“We wanted it to be very fast, sporting in the extreme and Spartan,” he [Giovanni Perfetti, Ferrari marketing] says. “Customers had been saying our cars were becoming too plush and comfortable.

The F40 is for the most enthusiastic of our owners who want nothing but sheer performance. It isn't a laboratory for the future, as the 959 is. It is not Star Wars. And it wasn't created because Porsche built the 959. It would have happened anyway."

I mean, your view that it wasn't all that good of a car were not uncommon during its initial reviews. It had a lukewarm reception with different views of why it was even built. Gordon was not fond of the build quality being reminiscent of outdated technology, but others exclaimed that was what made it such a terrorifying and fun car to drive b/c it was just a go-kart with a Groupe B engine in it.

 

[Tornado]

So it was a road car that was better at both the road and racing than a race car? The F40 is legendary don't get me wrong, but it wasn't all that good of a car.

The BPR field when the F1 showed up was a ragtag group of privately converted cars of varying levels of spec and age, all based on cars that all had much lower base performance than the F1 (which itself had to be detuned). There was even a Pantera and Countach kit car competing in the class. The only other factory backed cars in the series were only interested in entering the annual Suzuka 1000KM race. The cars that were notably faster than the F1 after its debut (like the factory Esprit team) rarely managed to finish races, and the BPR itself proved completely incapable of balancing the series around the F1's immediate dominance (which only got worse the following year) which led to many most of the interesting cars that had made up the field in the first season and the start of the second flaking out before the second season was over with. When Ferrari itself actually woke up and said "let's deal with the F1 directly" they then saw what Porsche was about to do and said "nah."

 

[deththrasher]

You need to take another look then. In your market, F8s are selling for £200,000-£250,000 from what I'm seeing. 296s are commanding £215,000-£300,000. My statement remains the same; the markets are on par with each other with people willing to pay over the car's £245,000 MSRP to get one now, which signifies there is demand for it.

And yes, there has been moving goal posts. This discussion started with you claiming that the 296 has "sold less than expected" which was debunked because the car is sold out through 2025. Then, you tried to argue about the used market vs. new market values/demand against an older model, which has no bearing on the car's current sales numbers & Ferrari crediting it with their current sales success, but even then, that claim is not correct.

I'm not really interested in what forums you're reading & you choosing to reshare their views that are nothing more than emotion-based than factual. I read the same opinions on Ferrarichat; a good chunk of their members are nothing but old heads longing for the days of Testarossas & shady money. These are the guys appreciating the F8's V8 against the 296's V6 trying to pretend they're not the same people who whined when Ferrari decided to twin turbo the V8 and "kill" the sound of the N/A.

"Pulling the heart strings" is as I said before; akin to the crying about Ferrari killing the manuals b/c the market decided they were not cost-efficient. If you want that coveted F154 V8 from the F8, the Roma is right there & significantly cheaper. Or one can splurge for the SF90. But, if that V8 was so important & the decision to downsize to a V6 was so bad, why isn't the Roma suddenly outselling the 296? Because the market & the people who actually buy these cars do not care.

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy

I don't think you're making the right argument. The V6 is totally fine for the 296GTB and from most accounts, it's a really good car. I think there is an argument that the same engine isn't, however, appropriate for a F## car. I would love for Ferrari to build an engine rivaling the N/A brilliance of Cosworth's latest efforts, but then again the F40 had a lot of character because of it's small displacement turbo engine. For me it's too early to tell, but I don't think the 296GTB is relevant to the conversation.

I actually really like the 296, it's my favourite modern Ferrari by far. But I was just correlating the perceived notion that it isn't quite as revered as the higher piston cars of the past. Though of course as it's a baby Ferrari it can get away with it, but the F80 with a 6 pot is just not emotional enough for a hypercar Ferrari IMO.

 

[TheCracker]

Ok. I was watching Harry's Metcalfe's (EVO founder) video and he had some stuff to say about the F80 and 296, he said 296's are losing money, is he making this up? Because I keep hearing it over and over, maybe it's some grand conspiracy

In the UK market at least, there are dozens for sale between £190k and £215k ('22 and '23 models) with less than 5k on them. They're a £241k car before you add any of the expensive options which are often spec'd and which can quickly push the prices towards £300k. There are a good handful with 'delivery' mileage for sale just below retail and that's before you look at what options were added.

So at this stage of their cycle, they're definately dropping in value.

 

[VinylRichie]

This one won’t be as memorable as its predecessors, it is obvious that something is missing in its overall design that the ones before had. That’s how I personally feel about this car, and in this case I’m pretty sure that it won’t grow on me with enough time passing by, there’s a deeper problem with its design for me