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- eran0004
Why does he want to remove the referee?This one's not nearly so unhinged, instead just stupid and pathetic.
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Why does he want to remove the referee?This one's not nearly so unhinged, instead just stupid and pathetic.
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You think she would go on the world stage pretending to be a woman for a country that would arrest her given gender changing is forbidden by law?As far as I can tell, “reportedly” Imane is a Female. According to her passport she’s a female.
But being that Algeria’s treatment and “recognition” of LGBTQ’s is dubious at best, I would also expect the same level of transparency.
it’s still not a level playing field to have testosterone levels that of a man, while playing woman sports. Just like a man cannot take steroids to gain an advantage in the Olympics
IOC spokesman Mark Adams said everyone taking part in the women's event "was complying competition eligibility rules".
"These athletes have competed many times before many years, they haven't just arrived, they competed in Tokyo," he said.
"Testosterone is not a perfect test. Many women can have testosterone which is in what would be called 'male levels' and still be women, still compete as women," he said.
"This idea that suddenly you do one test for testosterone and that sorts everything out - not the case, I'm afraid," he added.
"I hope we're all agreed that we're not calling for people to go back to the bad old days of sex testing, which was a terrible thing to do".
I am more worried that he refers to boxing as a womens sport.Why does he want to remove the referee?
The Fox News story (which I heard in passing because someone in my family was watching it) was an own goal. They stated that the women had been banned from competitions in the past because they had "male chromosomes" but at the same time said the women had also passed IOC genitalia exams. Apparently they have detachable male genitalia or got someone who looks like them to take the exam.Isn't the issue less about what the Republicans are trying to make it (that Khelif is male) and more about her testosterone levels being higher than what's allowable? If there's a standard set for testosterone levels, then adhere to it. It doesn't make Khelif a man or transgender, it just means her labs show that she's outside the allowable limits. Boxing especially limits people by all sorts of biological markers.
Also, didn't the Olympics allow a male-to-female athlete compete in like weight lifting or something as long as her testosterone was under a certain level?
Laurel Hubbard, in 1998 set a Mens New Zealand Junior record of 300kg total, in 2001 they stopped lifting in general due to pressures of fitting in the world.Also, didn't the Olympics allow a male-to-female athlete compete in like weight lifting or something as long as her testosterone was under a certain level?
It depends on the source. I'm pretty sure Fox had a correspondent from England that straight up said she was a man. Another segment, they had on a black multi-champion who said the same & gave a contradicting statement to Times. It's gotten so dumb, people started questioning Katie Ledecky & others.Isn't the issue less about what the Republicans are trying to make it (that Khelif is male) and more about her testosterone levels being higher than what's allowable? If there's a standard set for testosterone levels, then adhere to it. It doesn't make Khelif a man or transgender, it just means her labs show that she's outside the allowable limits. Boxing especially limits people by all sorts of biological markers.
Also, didn't the Olympics allow a male-to-female athlete compete in like weight lifting or something as long as her testosterone was under a certain level?
“I wish her to carry on until the end and that she can be happy. I am someone who doesn’t judge anyone. I am not here to give judgements,” Carini said.
Yeah, because if there is one thing that the internet has proven: People won't say offensive things, even anonymously.Average human is conformist and not too comfortable with idea of saying unpopular opinions, even to faceless poller.
internet
okphone polls
So what? A random person calls. You're even less likely to ever interact with that same person again than you are with a random username on a forum.
Problem is... this appears to be a retcon by one individual: IBA's president Umar Kremlev.If she has a y chromosome (which according to wikipedia she may have), and makes high levels of testosterone
I'm sure that confidentiality of medical information also weighs on cases like this. The public may not be allowed to know the facts if the individual doesn't want it released. And I'm not advocating that this be changed.Problem is... this appears to be a retcon by one individual: IBA's president Umar Kremlev.
From what I've seen, the approximate sequence of events and people is:
*Russia-based organising body AIBA faces allegations of corruption and match-fixing at 2016 Olympics
*IOC bans AIBA from organising boxing at 2020 Olympics
*Khelif represents Algeria at 2020 Olympics without issue (and not spectacular results)
*AIBA becomes IBA
*Khelif reaches final of (Russia-based organising body) IBA world championship in 2022, is beaten by Irish woman
*Khelif reaches final of IBA world championship in 2023
*IBA's Russian president disqualifies her (and another boxer) over unspecified "eligibility" test at unspecified laboratory
*IBA president affirms she also failed in 2022, but it was too late to disqualify her (what? Lance Armstrong was stripped of a 14-year old title!)
*IBA board ratifies decision on eve of final
*IBA board also calls for standardised gender testing in same meeting
*IOC claims IBA attitude has shifted from uncooperative to hostile and abusive
*IBA president subsequently claims Khelif has a Y chromosome, without confirming the eligibility test
*IBA president states IOC official in charge of boxing through to 2017 is a criminal who should be shot
*IOC strips IBA of organising body status over "governance, finance and corruption concerns"
*IBA president subsequently claims Khelif has high testosterone levels, without confirming the eligibility test. These would be two different tests.
*Khelif represents Algeria at 2024 Olympics
That would be up to the IOC. I don't see why it's relevant whether she's winning too much, and I think this is red herring for all of these issues. What's relevant is whether she has a competitive advantage that is outside of a reasonable set of rules for the sport. That's it.If she was blowing the competition away it would be worth looking at, but her record is 38 wins and 9 loses, they're not fantastic stats by any means.
If she wants to box competitively where does she get the chance to do that? - she'd have no chance against actual men. Paralympics? - are chromosome anomolies classed as a disability?
In my opinion, we should simply accept that sport is inherently unfair because some people will always be born with bodies that are simply superior to the field they participate in, that is just the story of "raw talent" in a different perspective.If she wants to box competitively where does she get the chance to do that?
Yes, sport is inherently unfair. Women's brackets attempt to make a very lopsided playing field a little less lopsided and more interesting. But they have this one challenge regarding who exactly qualifies for the women's bracket. There will be edge cases, and they will be difficult, which is why thoughtful regulations for the bracket are important and clear evaluation for the regulations matter.In my opinion, we should simply accept that sport is inherently unfair because some people will always be born with bodies that are simply superior to the field they participate in, that is just the story of "raw talent" in a different perspective.
Indeed, but this all appears to be one guy.I'm sure that confidentiality of medical information also weighs on cases like this.
Why is everyone trying so hard to overthink this?
Exactly, and her record, at least so far, has shown she appears to have no competitive advantage.What's relevant is whether she has a competitive advantage that is outside of a reasonable set of rules for the sport. That's it.
because the big orange baby eagerly jumped on the bandwagonMoreover, why are we doing it in the US presidential election thread?
Kamala Harris must be close to being a man.Moreover, why are we doing it in the US presidential election thread?
Fine. As long as men/boys who are an allowable amount of bad at sports are subject to invasive and degrading exams too. Just to make sure they're not actually women.This is of course the future that the christofascists have been aiming for. A woman who's good at sports - too good for a woman - is obviously not a woman, and in order to "protect" women who are an allowable amount of good at sports, all women right down to girls in high-school sports must be subject to invasive and degrading examinations to prove their womanhood.
The outcome is either women stop doing sports because they don't want to be subjected to that and/or there's a steady stream of kids for sports coaches (already in the top five groups of people most likely to abuse children, higher if you exclude family members) to "examine".
Well I don't think genital examination is even remotely appropriate for determining who has a competitive advantage.Indeed, but this all appears to be one guy.
He personally banned Khelif (on the eve of facing a Chinese boxer in her final) for failing an unspecified test conducted by an unspecified laboratory, which he's subsequently claimed is two different tests and an unspecified examination. All the claims about why she failed eligibility - which conflict - are from him.
This is of course the future that the christofascists have been aiming for. A woman who's good at sports - too good for a woman - is obviously not a woman, and in order to "protect" women who are an allowable amount of good at sports, all women right down to girls in high-school sports must be subject to invasive and degrading examinations to prove their womanhood. And we've already seen them saying that it's gay to find even those who have proven themselves as women attractive because their athletic bodies aren't womanly enough for them.
The outcome is either women stop doing sports because they don't want to be subjected to that and/or there's a steady stream of kids for sports coaches (already in the top five groups of people most likely to abuse children, higher if you exclude family members) to "examine".
Since the christofascists want children to abuse and women to know their place, it's a win-win for them.
Because US republicans make everything political for some reason.Moreover, why are we doing it in the US presidential election thread?
Wins and losses are not how that's shown. It'd be the IOC regulations for being a legitimate entrant into the bracket. If someone is the wrong weight for a weight class, you don't say "well they're not winning so it's ok". If they don't meet appropriate criteria to compete, they don't get to compete. This should happen before competition, and indeed in this case it did. It only leaves open whether the IOC regulations are appropriate.Exactly, and her record, at least so far, has shown she appears to have no competitive advantage.
Seems fine to me, but it doesn't solve the problem of who gets to compete in the women's bracket.Being that these sort of issues are seemingly going to keep coming up in the future, the Olympic committee would be smart to just throw in the towel and rename the different categories into the “Women” and “Open” categories.
What constitutes "genetic markers of a man"? Right now, the rule is set at above 10 nmol/L testosterone.Wanna call yourself a “women”? Fine, whatever. If you have the genetic markers of a man, you get the opportunity to compete in the appropriate category
I'm with you on this. If a person has a Y chromosome, they should be disqualified from sports classes that are reserved exclusively for X chromosomes. I don't have a problem with that.Yes, sport is inherently unfair. Women's brackets attempt to make a very lopsided playing field a little less lopsided and more interesting. But they have this one challenge regarding who exactly qualifies for the women's bracket. There will be edge cases, and they will be difficult, which is why thoughtful regulations for the bracket are important and clear evaluation for the regulations matter.
Why is everyone trying so hard to overthink this?
Apparently, and this is difficult to say with conviction because of how the IOC has punted all actual thought on this subject, there is no Y chromosome test. That is, unless a sport regulatory body which the IOC recognizes as authoritative (which they did not for the IBA), has a Y chromosome test, or unless a passport designation has a Y chromosome test. So... maybe? Probably not.I'm with you on this. If a person has a Y chromosome, they should be disqualified from sports classes that are reserved exclusively for X chromosomes. I don't have a problem with that.
It should be a fairly easy DNA test to take. No need to go prospecting around in anyone's knickers.