2024 US Presidential Election Thread

  • Thread starter ryzno
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vance was really good and confident at lying and pushing fake narrative.

Walz was struggling a bit at conveying the truth and calling out on the BS spewed on the other side.

That's my take on it.
People on the other side, we know how they saw the debate, they be mixing lies for truths.... Sad reality.
 
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Bitch your pedo running mate relitigates it at every single speaking engagement and you even advocated for the constitutionally illiterate alternate electors scheme.
It's hard not to imagine Bill Hicks's voice saying "Yeah, 'cause've yewww!" after everything "JP" says...
 
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“I would have asked the states to submit alternative slates of electors and let the country have the debate about what actually matters and what kind of an election that we had,” Vance said in an interview with the All-in Podcast on Monday, when asked multiple times what he would have done if he was in former Vice President Mike Pence’s position on Jan. 6, 2021.

When asked to clarify whether that means he would not certify the election results, he repeated that he would ask states to “submit alternative slates of electors.”

He had no problem speaking on 2020 election less than a month ago, but I guess you have to put him in a "safe space" to get an answer now.
 
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It's all getting a bit much for 45, who's continuing to lose it bigly. I know he's beginning to resemble Beetlejuice but does he have to repeat everything three times over?:

Screenshot_20241003-004108.png
 
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I really wish the media would talk about Trump's mental state. We talked about it with Biden and we need to talk about it with Trump.
Since he backed out of the 60 Minutes interview & was recently caught mixing up Iran & Kim Jong Un at his last rally, there have been a few media articles once again talking about his mental decline.

But yeah, I agree with you that there needs to be even more coverage. I'd never actually heard the term before, but a lot of folks have been saying media keeps sane-washing him.
 
This is an excellent discussion and analysis of the political situation:

Worth every second of it, to listen and fully understand
Very well understood by the two persons:



And this one too:
 
Walz won, but it wasn't nearly a slam dunk in the way that Harris/Trump was.

Let's address the elephant in the room: Vance performed better than expected. Walz didn't do badly at all, though the Democrats scored an own goal by painting Vance as a bumbling idiot and setting expectations so low. Let's be honest, the median voter has never even seen the man speak until now. Most people seemed caught off guard by how good Vance was at speaking. More energy should have been spent on portraying Vance as a disingenuous and capricious grifter, which is nakedly valid criticism. Vance is adroit in making Trump's stale and unpopular policies sound sophisticated, novel, even wonky. He's just enough well-spoken to inject a modicum of clarity and elaboration into his policies. Not particularly surprising, given that an Ivy League-educated lawyer would learn how to argue persuasively. Though, he still does struggle with trying to look uncontrived or empathetic, let alone with comedy. And unfortunately, while vice presidential debates- notable exception being Biden/Palin- are mostly inconsequential, Vance's performance could be just enough to rub enough undecided swing voters in the right way, whereas Trump's intensity and broad manner is futile in doing so for usually just confusing people. Vance's slickly-worded responses were well-executed and achieved what I can only assume the goal was: reshaping the radical MAGA ideology to be less charged and hateful, palatable to the median voter.

I sincerely feel bad for Walz; he's too "Minnesota nice" for this, an honest man more interested in action than talking smack, an encapsulation of the public servant. He's stated before even getting the VP pick that he's bad at debating, so it's not terribly surprising that he came off as a bit stiff, anxious, and not forceful enough. Perhaps the bar was mistakenly set too high for Walz, with many taking for granted that he'd brilliantly scorch Vance for his weirdness and associations with Project 2025, but he focused too much on finding ways in which he agrees with Vance and rarely went on the offense. There's just too much material and missed opportunities to clown on Vance to justify this. The whole "weird" arc really rings hollow when you seem to have tried your hardest to make Vance seem like a decent man who ultimately also wants to help America. At times it even seems like Walz been neutered on his more progressive ideology and talking points. Since the mics were on, the best way to deal with Vance was to just ask him yes or no questions, which was refreshing to watch toward the end, as Vance is allergic to pointed questions because he doesn't actually believe in anything. And it is actually quite disappointing how civil the debate was, despite it appearing refreshing after almost 10 years of Donald Trump writing the rules. Vance coming off as a reasonable guy, in some instances facilitated by Walz, inevitably conflates his abysmal and frankly fascistic policy agenda with being reasonable to a degree. Nevertheless, Walz did come out in the debate as a genuine, relatable guy who speaks his mind, is policy-focused and actually answers questions, which is why he won.

I'd even argue that a debate as such is Vance's best time to shine; as unlikeable and uncharismatic as he may be when it comes to giving canned speeches, interviews, and interacting with everyday Americans, he is a good, sharp rhetorician, which oftentimes matters more in a debate performance than being factually correct and having the superior policy agenda. Whereas Walz plays well to the Democratic base- especially young voters- in campaign rallies and on social media, he's just not as acclimated and experienced in front of larger crowds. This is also Walz's first media... anything since the interview he and Harris did about a month ago.
 
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I'd even argue that a debate as such is Vance's best time to shine; as unlikeable and uncharismatic as he may be when it comes to giving canned speeches, interviews, and interacting with everyday Americans, he is a good, sharp rhetorician, which oftentimes matters more in a debate performance than being factually correct and having the superior policy agenda.

I wonder though...

The reason Trump is popular is because he seems rough around the edges. He seems genuine (even though he isn't) to his fans. A lot of people despise politicians sounding like politicians. From that perspective, Vance's used car salesman demeanor might have been polished, but it may have put off more people than Walz.
 
I wonder though...

The reason Trump is popular is because he seems rough around the edges. He seems genuine (even though he isn't) to his fans. A lot of people despise politicians sounding like politicians. From that perspective, Vance's used car salesman demeanor might have been polished, but it may have put off more people than Walz.
I don't know what to think about people's perception of Vance. To me he comes across as a smarmy ambulance chaser / used car salesman. But there are probably a significant amount of people out there that detest Donald Trump but would allow themselves to vote for him if only some of his more insane actions and positions could be presented to them in a more palatable way - it gives them plausible deniability to hold their nose and pull the trigger. I see Vance as doing the work of pulling the lean-right people off the fence or off the sidelines. I don't see him pulling too many moderates or left leaning people the way Tim Waltz could with his sincerity and genuine affability.
 
Vance being a more typical right-wing politician in presentation is quite different from Trump's "I'm not a politician" thing. Trump presented and prided himself as not being one of the usual Washington suits. His followers often list that as one of his positive attributes so I find it quite telling that he needs someone with that image on his ticket.
 
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