Porsche 991.2 GT3 Revealed

[McLaren]

991.2 GT3 leaked a day early. Manual option has returned; bit crazy that it's only 37 pounds lighter than the PDK.

@Stotty, any idea if the manual-equipped cars will create demand on the market, or if this will lower the 911R values now that a proper manual GT3 is available again?

 

[Stotty]

@Stotty, any idea if the manual-equipped cars will create demand on the market, or if this will lower the 911R values now that a proper manual GT3 is available again?

Interesting question!

I think R values will soften a bit from the crazy highs, but they aren't going to crash purely because of rarity. I do think this will hit 991.1GT3 & RS prices... although somewhat depends on production numbers.

As for manual vs PDK... having driven a 991 GT3 I'm still in 2 minds. If you're going to do any track work, PDK would be the choice, but for a road car I found the gearbox a bit 'boring' once the novelty had worn off. Ultimately, I think most will order PDK, but manuals will be worth more in the future.

impressed by the minimal weight impact of PDK.. <20kg!

 

[MedigoFlame]

 

[Stotty]

The red trim on the seats is gash! Otherwise looks pretty much like the mk1.

The engine sounds like the big change... 4.0l with finger followers rather than hydraulic valve actuation... should make it a bit more reliable than the gen 1 unit... plus it makes a bit more power, has more torque over a wider rev range, and still revs to 9k.

 

[MedigoFlame]

The red trim on the seats is gash! Otherwise looks pretty much like the mk1.

The engine sounds like the big change... 4.0l with finger followers rather than hydraulic valve actuation... should make it a bit more reliable than the gen 1 unit... plus it makes a bit more power, has more torque over a wider rev range, and still revs to 9k.

Seems to be the case with most Porsche's. I'd take the red interior bits over the yellow.

Forgot to add this video from Drivetribe.

 

[Stotty]

Seems to be the case with most Porsche's. I'd take the red interior bits over the yellow.

997.2 GT3 was quite a step on from the 997.1 GT3... in addition to the capacity increase (3.6->3.8), there were a lot of changes to the suspension, which means they feel quite different to drive.

I think the other option for seat highlight is grey (at least that's what it looks like on the Porsche configurator).

Will watch the video later when I'm home 👍

 

[VXR]

That looks a lot better than the .1 version. I love that rear wing.

 

[Stotty]

That looks a lot better than the .1 version. I love that rear wing.

A 'lot' better? I'm struggling to spot any major styling differences to the gen 1...

A slightly less pronounced center section on the front bumper...

Rear spoiler on the gen 1 looks the same other than black end plates and the 2 black humps on the engine cover (which look a bit crap IMO)... slightly different lower bumper treatment...

 

[SPhilli911]

I'm loving this, especially the 4.0, with a manual option. Although it doesn't look spectacularly different than the 991.1, I like this one even more still.

A 'lot' better? I'm struggling to spot any major styling differences to the gen 1...

To be fair, there isn't a "lot" different between any 911 anyway (within the same generation, I mean). The changes are noticeable enough to distinguish it easily over the 991.1 and I have to agree with VXR that it looks a lot better because of the differences.

 

[Stotty]

It looks pretty much identical to me, and I'm about as anorak as you can get with GT Porsche's

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The black scoops on the engine cover are indeed a little garish, but I think overall, the view of the rear is improved thanks to the cleaner surface treatment. Removing that little slot between the taillights makes a big difference.

Now, hopefully this pulls the rug out from underneath 991.1 GT3 prices...

 

[VXR]

There wasn't much difference between the Gen.1 and 2 997 GT3, but the latter car looked so much more satisfying.

 

[Stotty]

Now, hopefully this pulls the rug out from underneath 991.1 GT3 prices...

Really depends how many Porsche make... if it's similar to the gen 1's (ie; c.350 cars for the UK), I only see a slight softening in prices... they might slip back to around list (£115-120k from the current £130k), but don't think we'll see them go any lower (in the UK, at least).

 

[SPhilli911]

Really depends how many Porsche make... if it's similar to the gen 1's (ie; c.350 cars for the UK), I only see a slight softening in prices... they might slip back to around list (£115-120k from the current £130k), but don't think we'll see them go any lower (in the UK, at least).

I'm interested to see how the manual option will effect PDK prices on the 991.1. Gotta wonder how many 991.1 owners will ditch for the gen 2 simply to have the transmission option they may have wanted from the start. I mean, there must have been a demand or else they wouldn't have brought the manual to the gen 2 at all.

I'm curious to see how the 991.2 GT3 RS will look. And will that have a manual option as well? And where is the GT2 already? So many things to look forward to.

 

[McLaren]

^Going by Rennlist, it seems quite a few owners are willing to trade their 991.1s. They're just waiting on allocations.

The red trim on the seats is gash! Otherwise looks pretty much like the mk1.

The engine sounds like the big change... 4.0l with finger followers rather than hydraulic valve actuation... should make it a bit more reliable than the gen 1 unit... plus it makes a bit more power, has more torque over a wider rev range, and still revs to 9k.

I like the trim.

On the differences, the front bumper does look updated; very Cayman GT4-ish?

The rear spoiler also looks like it's raked a bit more but it could be the angle.

 

[SagarisGTB]

It looks pretty much identical to me, and I'm about as anorak as you can get with GT Porsche's

For me the biggest improvement is abandoning the awful LED whiskers of the 991.1 and incorporating the more subtle and attractive LEDs of the 991.2 generation. That one change improves the fascia tremendously.

 

[Stotty]

I'm interested to see how the manual option will effect PDK prices on the 991.1. Gotta wonder how many 991.1 owners will ditch for the gen 2 simply to have the transmission option they may have wanted from the start. I mean, there must have been a demand or else they wouldn't have brought the manual to the gen 2 at all.

GT buyers have changed over the years... back in the 996/997 days, the cars were more hardcore, and were bought by hardcore enthusiasts.

As they've become more usable (on a daily basis), and Porsche values have skyrocketed, the customer profile has expanded and changed. Now they are also bought by regular (but obviously wealthy) people, rather than just enthusiasts. These people will buy PDK... I don't think the uptake on manuals will be much more than 25% or so.

I think AP has already said RS will be PDK only.

 

[SPhilli911]

I think AP has already said RS will be PDK only.

I understand the need for the quickest shift times on a car meant primarily for track use (although I think it's silly to think people care about lap times that much), but I will always disagree with Porsche forcing the cars to have only PDK rather than offering a manual option on a car meant for both road and track use.

But of course I am not a Porsche GT3 consumer (too poor) and my demand for a manual option means nothing. Also, I've never experienced PDK personally, so my question would be, is PDK still fun for both normal driving and track use? For those who don't care about lap times but just want a thrilling driving/ track experience, does it even matter if it's PDK only?

 

[Stotty]

I understand the need for the quickest shift times on a car meant primarily for track use (although I think it's silly to think people care about lap times that much), but I will always disagree with Porsche forcing the cars to have only PDK rather than offering a manual option on a car meant for both road and track use.

But of course I am not a Porsche GT3 consumer (too poor) and my demand for a manual option means nothing. Also, I've never experienced PDK personally, so my question would be, is PDK still fun for both normal driving and track use? For those who don't care about lap times but just want a thrilling driving/ track experience, does it even matter if it's PDK only?

The RS PDK thing is a point of principle for AP... the RS version must be the fastest it possibly can be.

I've driven a 991.1 GT3... the PDK 'box is amazing... super fast & super smooth. It works brilliantly with the engine - which covers the last 8-9k part of the rev band so quickly that you could easily buzz the limiter with a manual. In isolation, PDK is not a negative.

However, the super long gearing means opportunities to experience the amazing 8-9k rush (and incredible noise!) are very limited on the road (you're over NSL at 9k in 2nd, and on your way to jail/a huge accident at 9k in 3rd)... which for me, ruins the enjoyment.

A manual would at least allow some interaction with the car, but wouldn't fix the fundamental gearing issue.

I've yet to drive it on track - though this will be fixed in a couple of months (we're doing a track day at Silverstone in May)... I expect the PDK to be brilliant there.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Kinda disappointed not to see the GT2 at Geneva.

 

[McLaren]

Don't think it's worth a thread because it's not confirmed, but Porsche's Motorsport manager gives hint that a mid-engine 911 is possible.

Porsche Motorsport’s manager of high-performance cars, Andreas Preuninger, told Autocar: "There is nothing coming soon, but in the mid-term don’t rule it [a mid-engined 911] out." He added: "I think that adding some excitement to the car in this way wouldn’t be bad."

Preuninger’s boss, Frank Walliser, confirmed there was significant customer interest in such a car. Porsche Motorsport has a proud tradition of listening closely to its customers, one reason why a manual gearbox is now once more available on the latest 911 GT3.

The mid-engined 911 will be comparatively easy for Porsche to produce, not least because the car already exists in racing RSR form and proved its potential by coming second in the Daytona 24 Hours on its first outing. There is no issue with rear seats because GT 911s have always been homologated as two-seaters. And now that Porsche has just one Motorsport engine that's used in everything from the standard road GT3 to the ultimate mid-engined racing RSR, engineering the car should be relatively simple.

Moreover, despite the fact that the normally aspirated 4.0-litre engine already produces 493bhp and revs to 9000rpm, it has considerable additional development potential. Walliser says the most they’ve seen so far is 608bhp with the engine "screaming on the bench".

Quite what the mid-engined 911 will be called is unclear. It could have an all-new name, adopt the same RSR acronym of its racing counterpart or use one of the existing road car names.

What is certain is that Porsche doesn't think the car is in any way heretical to the 911 brand. When asked if Porsche could really call such a car a 911, Walliser replied simply: "We already do."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...t-mid-engined-version-and-major-design-change

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Please let me make enough money one day, after the GT2 RS I've waited for an amazing Porsche, and it didn't take long. This is even better looking in my view. Even if it doesn't have the same power.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

@McLaren - I hope you don't mind inheriting a new thread, but the leak seemed like as good of a place as any to draw a line in the sand. With the automotive news on the front page, this makes it much easier for readers than being sent to the beginning of a thread started in 2011.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren - I hope you don't mind inheriting a new thread, but the leak seemed like as good of a place as any to draw a line in the sand. With the automotive news on the front page, this makes it much easier for readers than being sent to the beginning of a thread started in 2011.

Of course, it's your call.

I just thought their Motorsport Manager saying, "We might build one" would conjure more interest than, "We could build one".

Edit* Doh. I thought you meant for the mid-engine speculation. Didn't know it was a new thread altogether for the new GT3; figured that was still 991 news.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

My heart practically skipped a beat when I saw it in the news feed thinking it was in a current title we all know

 

[kikie]

Aaawwww, me eyes, me eyes.

What a lovely car. Can have one please?

 

[oneloops]

this will lower the 911R values now that a proper manual GT3 is available again?

Who cares about values and egocentric speculative interests ?
If the 911R value goes down is part of the risk of that speculative market game.

Personally, I only care about cars, engineering and design, not about inflated prizes nor speculation...

 

[forzaturismo]

👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Edit* Doh. I thought you meant for the mid-engine speculation. Didn't know it was a new thread altogether for the new GT3; figured that was still 991 news.

Oh, I didn't catch that last night — yeah, it could be spun off into its own thread as well, in all honesty.

The 991 generation has so many permutations, that we don't see the harm in spinning off new threads for separate models, especially now that there's been a facelift to 991.2. The hope is that it makes it easier to follow discussions. 👍

 

[Jimmy_DA]

So why a picture of the auto gear level?

Pfft you don't buy a sports car in auto PERIOD! Don't care, a sports car is made to be driven not for sitting in - an auto defeats it's purpose. Personally I don't feel safe driving an auto, no where near the control you get with a manual. I like to feel what the car is doing and telling me and have devoted myself to never owning an automatic gear-boxed car.