450PP Non-Racing car Super Lap - Tsukuba Circuit

[GTP_CargoRatt]

In the TT at Bathurst i actually made my post about this because i seemed to be easily catching my overcast-ghost when driving in sunny conditions. A couple of replies -one of which was Crank -who should be able to feel a difference, made me believe that there was probably nothing to it.

Alright then, if Crank believes there is nothing to it, then that's what we'll go with. 👍

 

[Roweer1]

Alright then, if Crank believes there is nothing to it, then that's what we'll go with. 👍

I agree; CRANK is the highest authority on this. A Little more data/comments on the issue wouldn't harm me though.

 

[CBH]

I agree; CRANK is the highest authority on this. A Little more data/comments on the issue wouldn't harm me though.

I agree also we do need more data/comments on the issue rather than one person. Sorry @CRANK_U1

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I agree; CRANK is the highest authority on this. A Little more data/comments on the issue wouldn't harm me though.

Well, now that I am aware of this phenomenon, I myself am going to start paying closer attention to it and do my own tests/observations so that I may draw my own personal conclusion. If there is any merit to this, grip levels should be better during the overcast days as opposed to bright sunny days when the track is warmer and greasier. I have my doubts though that PD modeled these Seasonals in that manner but hey, you never know. For now, personally, I remain undecided.

 

[Roweer1]

Well, now that I am aware of this phenomenon, I myself am going to start paying closer attention to it and do my own tests/observations so that I may draw my own personal conclusion. If there is any merit to this, grip levels should be better during the overcast days as opposed to bright sunny days when the track is warmer and greasier. I have my doubts though that PD modeled these Seasonals in that manner but hey, you never know. For now, personally, I remain undecided.

Really?? But my case (and @hall90's i think) is based on the assumption that a warmer track is grippier and Thus giving us and the top 10 times at Bathurst better results when sunny....?

 

[CRANK_U1]

To all the posts about the if overcast or sunny weather is faster or not. I put in my fastest lap on Bathurst TT when it was overcast. Check my replay if you don't believe me
I believe there's still a bug with this GSX-R which is causing the issue.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Really?? But my case (and @hall90's i think) is based on the assumption that a warmer track is grippier and Thus giving us and the top 10 times at Bathurst better results when sunny....?

Cold surface + Hot tires = more tack (more grip)
Hot surface + Hot tires = less tack (less grip)

EDIT: @CRANK_U1 just further proved this theory. 👍

This is also the reason in NASCAR qualifying that it is advantageous to go out on the track and run your qualifying lap under cloud cover as opposed to when the sun is out. When the sun is out and beating on the track, it becomes greasier due to the
hot asphalt bringing up oils and other solvents creating a slicker racing surface.

 

[Teitzy]

Yeah I'm with Crank on this one, I haven't noticed any difference in times or handling between different versions of the track. Having said that, the visual differences may affect the way you drive (eg. shadows, braking markers etc.) without us realising it, & therefore MAY impact lap times (purely psychological affect).

 

[Roweer1]

I think we can conclude there's no difference in grip then (-and that i was wrong about what surface has more grip)
I watched your replay from back then CRANK; it was indeed an overcast lap. I had posted my observations of the first 10 on the 22'nd; your lap is from the 24'th -that's why. If you say there's an issue with the car, perhaps that's what it has all been about -if anything!

 

[CBH]

I think we are getting nowhere on this one about the different in weather effect the Grip or not I think we should go back to racing. 👍

 

[Dalone]

I didn't think you were complaining @Dalone

As far as i know (feel free to correct me) the trick that CRANK_U1 and samurai405 does, is a TAPPING of the throttle. It should therefore be obtainable with button-throttle...

No mate I knew you weren't saying I was complaining. I just added that stuff to save anyone else from making that observation.

And yes, tapping the throttle button is how I control my speed whenever a finer amount of throttle is required, as against mashing it into the plastic (pedal to the metal) scenario.

 

[ODB]

No mate I knew you weren't saying I was complaining. I just added that stuff to save anyone else from making that observation.

And yes, tapping the throttle button is how I control my speed whenever a finer amount of throttle is required, as against mashing it into the plastic (pedal to the metal) scenario.

I was reading about the throttle tapping couple of months ago and actually pretty soon realized that I sometimes tap on the throttle as described using the DFGT, it's more of a panic reaction most times but really sudden taps on the gas or the brakes can save you from a sticky situation. Racin on nurb on a difficult car should be a good trainer for this...

 

[GT_Rajman]

Hi Rajman!
As a DS3driver, I would like to try your setup -but i can't seem to get to your PP-/HP-/Weightvalues. May i ask what powerinstallations you have?

Sports Computer
Catalytic Converter Sports

Power limiter :100%

 

[Dalone]

I was reading about the throttle tapping couple of months ago and actually pretty soon realized that I sometimes tap on the throttle as described using the DFGT, it's more of a panic reaction most times but really sudden taps on the gas or the brakes can save you from a sticky situation. Racin on nurb on a difficult car should be a good trainer for this...

The other type of tapping is one I learnt many years ago chasing buffalo on wet or green grass, and that was tapping the brake to slow down rather than the usual hard pedal to the metal most use on bitumen. These days most cars come with that as a part of their braking system.

 

[et_]

@GTP_CargoRatt , @CRANK_U1 , @hall90 , @Roweer1 , @Teitzy
I want to clarify a few things here: IRL, it is correct as Cargo says that if it gets too hot due to the asphalt "bleeding" you will lose grip. That start to happen at about 28°C (83°F). But if it gets too cold, the tires will not get up to temperature. and even if you somehow manage to get the tire temperatures up, the cold surface will not let the rubber generate enough friction against the cold surface. That starts to become an issue at about 18°C (65°F).
That gives you a window where the tires generate the best grip.

Now, there is however something that affects the lap times more: the engine. The hotter it gets, the less dense the air is, and hence less oxygen get fed into the engine, therefore losing power. This is more pronounced on high revving NA engines (that's the main reason why the nascar guys want cold weather Cargo)
Furthermore, staying out for many laps will slow your lap times down a bit as well, because of the engine itself getting hotter, and heating up the air when its on its way into the engine.

So ideally, for the lap times to be the best, it should be around 20°C (68°F), however, there are circumstances where you can go even faster, if it is really cold out, and the sun comes out, it will heat up the tarmac, causing track temperature to be high enough for the tires to work, while still getting really cold air into the engine.

Ok, so that's IRL. How much of that is implemented in GT6? the part of the engine heating up the air is definitely not. And I dont think there is a difference in power at all in GT6 to be honest.
So have they replicated the way tires work in different temperatures? Maybe, but I doubt they have thought about the way the asphalt bleed at high temperatures.

There is also a bug where the weight transfer of the car changes, and it is not only for the gixxer, I have experienced it once, and that was in the Lexus CCS TT.

And lastly, NEVER underestimate the Placebo effect! If you believe there is less grip, you will not go as fast.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

@GTP_CargoRatt , @CRANK_U1 , @hall90 , @Roweer1 , @Teitzy
I want to clarify a few things here: IRL, it is correct as Cargo says that if it gets too hot due to the asphalt "bleeding" you will lose grip. That start to happen at about 28°C (83°F). But if it gets too cold, the tires will not get up to temperature. and even if you somehow manage to get the tire temperatures up, the cold surface will not let the rubber generate enough friction against the cold surface. That starts to become an issue at about 18°C (65°F).
That gives you a window where the tires generate the best grip.

Now, there is however something that affects the lap times more: the engine. The hotter it gets, the less dense the air is, and hence less oxygen get fed into the engine, therefore losing power. This is more pronounced on high revving NA engines (that's the main reason why the nascar guys want cold weather Cargo)
Furthermore, staying out for many laps will slow your lap times down a bit as well, because of the engine itself getting hotter, and heating up the air when its on its way into the engine.

So ideally, for the lap times to be the best, it should be around 20°C (68°F), however, there are circumstances where you can go even faster, if it is really cold out, and the sun comes out, it will heat up the tarmac, causing track temperature to be high enough for the tires to work, while still getting really cold air into the engine.

Ok, so that's IRL. How much of that is implemented in GT6? the part of the engine heating up the air is definitely not. And I dont think there is a difference in power at all in GT6 to be honest.
So have they replicated the way tires work in different temperatures? Maybe, but I doubt they have thought about the way the asphalt bleed at high temperatures.

There is also a bug where the weight transfer of the car changes, and it is not only for the gixxer, I have experienced it once, and that was in the Lexus CCS TT.

And lastly, NEVER underestimate the Placebo effect! If you believe there is less grip, you will not go as fast.

Yes Elias, I am very aware of this fact as I used to work for, in, and around NASCAR since I was 15 years old up until 2007. I started out parking cars at MIS (Michigan International Speedway) and ended with being 2nd man welder/fabricator at Roush Racing up until 2007 when they partnered with Fenway Sports Group and I was then laid off due to the economy here starting to take a turn for the worse.

 

[ODB]

The other type of tapping is one I learnt many years ago chasing buffalo on wet or green grass, and that was tapping the brake to slow down rather than the usual hard pedal to the metal most use on bitumen. These days most cars come with that as a part of their braking system.

Yes, braking on a slippery surface seems to be a lot more effective if you can work the engine braking, I think that if you just slam the brakes you get non of that and also full lock on tires is no good (even I know that ) so tapping prevents that effectively:tup:

 

[Stotty]

Had an hour with the wheel and down to 1'00.850 using mostly @et_ tune.

Not mega enjoyable, but better than the Lotus!

 

[Ed_Night]

Down to 1:00,571 now for P22 with ds3 using my own tune.

If i can get a ,4xx until the end i would be happy.

 

[Doodle]

Very good day today. Took me an hour to inprove by .006!

 

[Teitzy]

1:00.6xx with et's tune, though set ballast position at 0. Another 2 tenths to find yet.

 

[BMWcrazy]

Jesus. You guys are too quick.

I'm happy with my crappy 1:02.

 

[Dalone]

Jesus. You guys are too quick.

I'm happy with my crappy 1:02.

1:02 is a respectable time in anyone's language.

 

[Doodle]

Jesus. You guys are too quick.

I'm happy with my crappy 1:02.

1:02s are still very good! You're dealing with semi-aliens here.

 

[ODB]

Jesus. You guys are too quick.

I'm happy with my crappy 1:02.

I've been actually contemplating on making a youtube channel just to download (upload) some videos and maybe get some advice from these guys who are quite all the time in the top ten. If remember right I'm somewhere in 1:01 on this event and could probably improve up to 2 tenths but the fact that I would still leave whole second there really wonders me.And of course you and I can study those top 10 videos but it requires sharp eye to notice those little mistakes I must be making all over the track...

And the cruel fact is improving is only gonna get harder all the time...

 

[MTM79]

I finally gave up and took the Suzuki for a ride. About 20 laps With it and My time went from 1:06... to 1:02.291 currently in the 915th place.

First time ever doing Something else besides Going for Gold. Could probably drop to 1:01s With a Perfect lap but don't feel Like it knowing now how I keep up With the best.

 

[meek]

That is a correct analysis, however some (crank + Samurai405) have found a way to master that kind of throttle control on a DS3. How they manage it is beyond my understanding tho.

edit, thanks @Roweer1 for the help with samurai name

You use the right joystick for throttle and brake. It takes the same finess using the left joystick to steer. I drove like that before I got a DFGT. Even with the DFGT I still have problems with throttle control.

@jontikis is regularly in the top 100 despite being on controller, was 6th in the Lotus TT last I checked!
he uses the same right joystick technique.

This is also the reason in NASCAR qualifying that it is advantageous to go out on the track and run your qualifying lap under cloud cover as opposed to when the sun is out. When the sun is out and beating on the track, it becomes greasier due to the
hot asphalt bringing up oils and other solvents creating a slicker racing surface.

yeah and it's the other way around in GT, my personal best times are when it's 90°F (highest possible at Daytona)

snip.

great post!
Just to add: the reason engines get hotter is because they run 100% tape for qualifier (they obstruct the grille opening entirely), resulting in improved aerodynamics and therefore lap times.

 

[LooseLugNuts]

yeah and it's the other way around in GT, my personal best times are when it's 90°F (highest possible at Daytona)

You can ask Whoosier what the best temp is to run fast laps at Daytona. I heard she's done with GT6 so maybe she will give up some of her oval setups now.

 

[hanskloss]

1:00.913 at the moment, with rajman and et_ mix setup. Thanks guys

 

[FSportIS]

Man, congrats to all. You all are so damn fast especially the ones with 1:00. Set new goal, beat that 1 min mark, can you no i'm just kidding.

Beside the GSX-R, what is the fastest time you pros can get with the Lotus Elise 111R? I think nowcontrol tried and get 1:02.9 and I beginner have 1:06.344 Anyone else?