450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

[chuyler1]

Nope, just run through the settings and look for UPnP and make sure it is on. On older routers, it usually ships with the setting off, but with today's modern internet enabled devices the new routers ship with the setting on. If your router is really old, say more than 5 years, you may need to replace it, or at least update the firmware.

 

[esh]

No just enabling it on the router should be enough.

 

[dabneyd]

TCP/IP is the suite. UDP was a decision made by PD in the programming of GT5 over TCP probably due to overhead and speed concerns but both TCP and UDP are elements of TCP/IP.

TCP/IP is actually just the common name derived from its most important protocols. Technically it's the Internet Protocol Suite, of which TCP and UDP are transport layer protocols. Like I said, most internet games run on UDP because it doesn't require a handshake for every connection like TCP does.

But what type of environment is it with the 360 and those games? I'm guessing it's similar to accessing a webpage from different machines on the same LAN.

With lounges and non-fixed hosts GT5 requires an incoming connection which I would think is the same port both externally and internally on both PS3's by default. I've not really paid attention on my network as I only have the one device but this is the conclusion I came to when at my friends house. And it never works when that happens. There is no data sent to the PS3 that has timedout so I just see everyone else as loading and all chat disappears.

It's like doing the opposite of what I described previously with the 2 webservers only you have both sites published (meaning the internet sees www.domain1.com and www.domain2.com) with the default HTTP port of 80. Sometimes domain1 would get requests and sometimes domain2 would get them. The external port has to be different.

Yeah, the last part of that is wrong. You can have many, many servers running inside of the same external IP address all routing out through port 80. Actually, you can serve multiple websites (www.domain1.com, www.domain2.com) off of the same webserver, but we're getting into DNS, and that's outside of the issue. I think that I've forgotten what we were talking about.

 

[Nicktune]

Momentum is important with awd...They handle really good,but they have poor acceleration/max speed...I could maintain 152kmh through the first right kink (Adenauer forst) and 212kmh through (Metzgesfeld)...My Dottinger Hohe to Antoniusbuche times must be really bad vs yours.

 

[mcsimfan]

Can you confirm UPnP is enabled on your router and that you see multiple devices using the service? Now that I think about it, dabney may be right about being able to use same ports so long as UPnP is enabled. I cannot confirm my friend had that enabled on his router. That would require UPnP to then do the work of using different external ports for both machines.

Just checked and UPnP was already enabled on my router.

 

[chuyler1]

What brand/model is it, and when did you purchase it?

 

[esh]

TCP/IP is actually just the common name derived from its most important protocols. Technically it's the Internet Protocol Suite, of which TCP and UDP are transport layer protocols. Like I said, most internet games run on UDP because it doesn't require a handshake for every connection like TCP does.




Yeah, the last part of that is wrong. You can have many, many servers running inside of the same external IP address all routing out through port 80. Actually, you can serve multiple websites (www.domain1.com, www.domain2.com) off of the same webserver, but we're getting into DNS, and that's outside of the issue. I think that I've forgotten what we were talking about.

I'm talking about your average home router with a simple firewall using NAT. You can't listen on the same external port and expect the router to know which node to forward packets to internally, even with rules in your firewall to do so.

You're talking about a much more complicated setup like that of hosting companies but I was trying to keep it simple to get a general concept across. But yeah, I agree. Derailed long enough...

Edit: I also see this in reference to GT5 using TCP:
http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/Actiontec/GT704-WG/PS3_Gran_Turismo_5.htm

Not sure if that's more PSN specific or what.

Also, dabney what do you do for a living?

 

[dabneyd]

I'm talking about your average home router with a simple firewall using NAT. You can't listen on the same external port and expect the router to know which node to forward packets to internally, even with rules in your firewall to do so.

You're talking about a much more complicated setup like that of hosting companies but I was trying to keep it simple to get a general concept across.

Why not? That's what your router does, via NAT. The router is keeping track of the translation table which makes sure traffic from outside gets to its intended destination. And really, your home router isn't that different from in how it performs basic functions within the IP stack; it's the particular protocols that it uses in the stack that differentiate it.

Edit: I also see this in reference to GT5 using TCP:
http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/Actiontec/GT704-WG/PS3_Gran_Turismo_5.htm

Not sure if that's more PSN specific or what.

Yeah, if you're using a router with a crappy implementation of UPnP, like the Actiontec(pieces of garbage) you'll have to manually open ports, but that is not particular to PSN, you have to do the same thing for Xbox Live.

Also, dabney what do you do for a living?

I work in IT. My title is Apple support, but the company I work for is small, so I wind up doing anything I can.

 

[esh]

Why not? That's what your router does, via NAT. The router is keeping track of the translation table which makes sure traffic from outside gets to its intended destination. And really, your home router isn't that different from in how it performs basic functions within the IP stack; it's the particular protocols that it uses in the stack that differentiate it.

https://supportforums.cisco.com/thread/2037275

Second and third post describe what I'm talking about. Single port cannot be forwarded to 2 hosts simultaneously.

Yeah, if you're using a router with a crappy implementation of UPnP, like the Actiontec(pieces of garbage) you'll have to manually open ports, but that is not particular to PSN, you have to do the same thing for Xbox Live.

I'm just pointing out that GT5 does, at least according to this and a couple other posts in playstation forums I saw, use both TCP and UDP. I received an ActionTec router with my FiOS install and quickly turned it into a bridge to keep using my nearly 8 year old WRT54GS and GL's running Tomato.

I work in IT. My title is Apple support, but the company I work for is small, so I wind up doing anything I can.

I thought I heard you make mention of a server room on a couple occasions. I work in IT as well for a school district as an Operational Tech Specialist and although it's around 3000 users I end up doing everything I can but more out of necessity due to being understaffed. Jack of all trades, master of none sort of thing.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

https://supportforums.cisco.com/thread/2037275

Second and third post describe what I'm talking about. Single port cannot be forwarded to 2 hosts simultaneously.

Your PS3 never opens a listening port for GT5. Thus, even if you have two PS3s on the same LAN, behind the same firewall, they are never expecting incoming connections. If they were, we would all have to open that port.

This is the role of the Qriocity servers. When you go online in GT5, you connect to one of them. Since you initiate the connection, you don't need to open a port on the firewall.

The two PS3s get two different ports just as two web browsers on two PCs would.

The Qriocity servers are just brokers though. They just help set up the connection. The game doesn't run on those servers. The game is still running on the PS3s of the people involved. UDP packets are being sent back and forth over outbound connections that you established, not inbound connections that you are listening for.

Still, the original point of this all was, there is no Sony/PD servers or network hardware that is the cause of this. This is all a fault in the GT5 software.

And for what it is worth, I currently do IT work for BCBS-NC. I've been sold to Fujitsu though, and start under their banner on the first of the month. I got my start in web-based application development, but went into middleware and now do fault and performance monitoring with IBM Tivoli Monitoring and CA Spectrum.

 

[spooble]

My title is Apple support...

Some times my iPhone 4s seems to just lose it's data connection when on 3G. If I power it off and back on, it's fine. Any thoughts?

 

[dabneyd]

Some times my iPhone 4s seems to just lose it's data connection when on 3G. If I power it off and back on, it's fine. Any thoughts?

Is that a serious question? Because I can answer that.

 

[spooble]

Well, although I was attempting to be funny, it does happen sometimes.

 

[k_riens]

DTM on Nuburgring (short) on The Nascar Channel (Speed Channel) right now.

 

[dabneyd]

DTM on Nuburgring (short) on The Nascar Channel (Speed Channel) right now.

Ha, just saw the "Women of DTM" segment.

Also, DTM next year is going to be awesome.

 

[esh]

Your PS3 never opens a listening port for GT5. Thus, even if you have two PS3s on the same LAN, behind the same firewall, they are never expecting incoming connections. If they were, we would all have to open that port.

This is the role of the Qriocity servers. When you go online in GT5, you connect to one of them. Since you initiate the connection, you don't need to open a port on the firewall.

The two PS3s get two different ports just as two web browsers on two PCs would.

The Qriocity servers are just brokers though. They just help set up the connection. The game doesn't run on those servers. The game is still running on the PS3s of the people involved. UDP packets are being sent back and forth over outbound connections that you established, not inbound connections that you are listening for.

Still, the original point of this all was, there is no Sony/PD servers or network hardware that is the cause of this. This is all a fault in the GT5 software.

And for what it is worth, I currently do IT work for BCBS-NC. I've been sold to Fujitsu though, and start under their banner on the first of the month. I got my start in web-based application development, but went into middleware and now do fault and performance monitoring with IBM Tivoli Monitoring and CA Spectrum.

I obviously don't fully understand how the GT5 network, and probably PSN, actually works but I came to that conclusion (listening ports) due to the issue of one PS3 timing out on same LAN as I described earlier when trying to play in someone else's lounge or lobby and that I'm seeing port 3658 being opened and connected to service.playstation.net as well as active connections to residential IP's of those in whichever rooms I'm connected to. I could have sworn I saw those IP's as being source when I've checked previously but this last time I checked it was I that was originating the connection.

 

[esh]

Is that a serious question? Because I can answer that.

4S and 3G? Or AT&T's network is crap?

 

[esh]

Nic, I think I'm going to take you up on your offer to make a tuning guide whether you were joking or not.

 

[k_riens]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74244

Some options are gone but the basic lessons are there.

 

[BTK]

It's not AT&T specifically I believe, there is a bug with the 4S where some people can not receive messages, and even during the middle of a conversation it seems as if somebody pushed the mute button. The only ones I know that are having the issue run on IOS5, which is weird, because dad's has no issues with his. But I know of two people personally who have had their phones sent off.

 

[polizei]

I need a desk. I have no where to mount my wheel and i don't even bother playing with the ds3. moving sucks

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Any 450 action tonight?

(I'll probably open a public room in a little while if there is not.)

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I joined a public room lead by "The_Manager" or something like that. It wasn't bad. I wasn't the slowest, so I'm sure most of the drivers are below the regulars here. I had a couple of moments where I made a bad mistake and someone hit me as hit the brakes sooner than I normally do or as I bounced off a curb and went airborne.

There were a couple drivers that were... well, they weren't bumpy, but they didn't give up their lines. They didn't do a good job of paying attention when you were beside them.

There were only two really bad drivers that I saw and they left as soon as I complained. I think they were just looking for dirty rooms.

It was a good night.

 

[dudeondacouch]

I can't, in good faith, be on the side of someone who resides in Durham.

That is all.

 

[polizei]

Hey Vol, i just moved to Morrisville.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I can't, in good faith, be on the side of someone who resides in Durham.

That is all.

I'm not a fan of Durham, and less so of Duke.

Hey Vol, i just moved to Morrisville.

Woot! Morrisville isn't too bad.

 

[dudeondacouch]

I'm not a fan of Durham, and less so of Duke.

If you're anti-dook, I guess we can be cool.

 

[polizei]

You ever go to the Cars-n-coffee at briar creek?

 

[dudeondacouch]

No, don't live down there anymore. Used to live in Chapel Hill, but now I'm stuck up here in NoVA.

 

[chuyler1]

I was at game stop with my wife looking for some used games that she would enjoy. Picked up LA Noire and Nascar 2011 off the used rack for cheap. She tried LA Noire and it seems to be her pace...until you have to chase down crooks...at which point she runs in circles or gets stuck against walls.

Nascar 2011 is a decent title. It has enough content to warrant the $17 I paid for it, provided you like NASCAR. I wouldn't suggested it for those that don't have a wheel though...since 95% of the challenge is working your way through tight packs of cars.

Pros:
* damage
* 43 cars on the track
* Surface detail
* 2-wide racing at Bristol
* Infineon and Watkins Glenn road courses
* Sense of speed feels more realistic than GT5
* automatic cautions/restarts when cars crash
* wheelspin that doesn't translate to Initial D style drifting
* spotters tell you where other cars are

Cons:
* Only one view has a rearview mirror, and it is too small to see anything
* Tire squeal exists, but only when you've pushed it too far
* Braking aids exist, but only when you've passed your braking point
* brakes feel like mush...very little feedback
* HUD in general is difficult to follow

I doubt this game would ever replace GT5 in my nightly ritual, but given the issues we've been having with PD's online code, I figured it would be a distraction. However I need to figure out how to properly set the difficulty level so I don't qualify first every time. Parts of the physics in this game feel more real than GT5 while other parts do not. I like the realism of how the car feels cresting turn 3a at Infineon and if you gas it too early the car will spin out instead of just drift a little. I like that the brakes feel like mush, but I wish there was some tire squeal to indicate proper threshold braking and lock-up. When you hit an apex, you can't help but think you're going too slow...since you don't hear any tire squeal unless you are understeering too wide of the apex. I also like how the car has more body roll and gets more unsettled when you hit the rumble strips or drop a wheel in the dirt on the other side of the rumble strips.