4K resolution?

[Foxiol]

I guess I was the only one who went to the Sony page and downloaded a PDF in where they released the OFFICIAL infor about the Play Station 4.

I copy and uploaded it to Mediafire just in case...there you can find everything about the PS4 specifications and prices for each device (controller, PS Eye camera and the PS4 itself).

Take a look: http://www.mediafire.com/view/xgrc1qw98drh35i/130611a_e.pdf

Now keep debating with this info.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

4k resolution would not mean much to me even if they did it. At present most things are not even true 1080P and would not make much sense to go out an buy a 4k TV for a game that likely would not be able to take advantage of that res anyway.

 

[Fgame]

I guess I was the only one who went to the Sony page and downloaded a PDF in where they released the OFFICIAL infor about the Play Station 4.

I copy and uploaded it to Mediafire just in case...there you can find everything about the PS4 specifications and prices for each device (controller, PS Eye camera and the PS4 itself).

Take a look: http://www.mediafire.com/view/xgrc1qw98drh35i/130611a_e.pdf

Now keep debating with this info.

As I said PS3 already does 4k. PS4 at least as capable as the PS3.

 

[Samus]

One PS3 can do 4k gaming output? This I have to see.

 

[Lain]

As I said PS3 already does 4k. PS4 at least as capable as the PS3.

If you're referring to the 4K GT demo, I'm fairly certain that was running on multiple PS3's... 3, I believe.

 

[Foxiol]

Not even need to say a word any more.

 

[Fgame]

No on PSN about a month ago there was a free software download that comes with 4k content. If you have a 4k TV you can play the 4k content.
Foxiol you should give up, you have no clue.

 

[Samus]

But that isn't 4k GAMING is it? Telling us that a photo viewer supports 4k doesn't support your idea that the PS4 will support 4k games or that the PS3 already does. It won't because as has been said several times, it doesn't have the hardware to do so and Sony have already said it won't happen.

 

[Fgame]

I said the PS4 is capable of 4k gaming. Its impossible to dispute with the level of hardware. Sony have said they are not supporting 4k gaming on the PS4. That is not a hardware choice but a marketing one. They just want to create a standard around 1080p gaming, either 30fps or 60fps and high detail features.
You could easily have a chess game where nothing is animated its just a still image of the board and the frame redraws once every few seconds at most, so effectively graphics of 0fps at 4k, even though the static image refreshes at 30fps. With a secondary layer for the cursor which updates 30fps.
Or you could have a kind of puzzle/observation/quiz game involving images where there is not even a cursor, but you just press certain buttons to progress to the result page and next image etc.
Lack of 4k support for gaming is nothing to do with the hardware inside the PS4 making it impossible.
The only unknown I have, as I have said earlier in the thread is that it cant do 60fps 4k unless it has HDMI 2.0, if it doesn't then its restricted to 30fps.
HDMI 2.0 is being announced next month and its targeted release date. Possibly too late for PS4, and the next 4k blu-ray update unfortunately.
Some TV brands like Samsung are offering to make upgrade kits to fit in the new port boards for existing customer. For playstation they might just wait until PS5. Though Sony could revise the PS4 at some point for the slim version with HDMI 2.0 if they miss it at launch.
I have just read that Sony are upgrading customers of the 4k X9 TV with new HDMI boards with a home visit. People are suggesting this is the HDMI 2.0 ports. Though Sony are not officially saying they are the 2.0, likely because the port has not been officially released to market.

 

[Tornado]

I'm sure 4K Chess will be Sony's biggest seller.

 

[Fgame]

Who knows the trends of gaming, look at angry birds. But maybe you are sarcastic and saying it would not be popular. And if so that would suggest why Sony are not supporting 4k gaming. The actual PS4, of course can do 4k gaming, but non tech people don't understand that point I think.

 

[Lain]

I'm sure 4K Chess will be Sony's biggest seller.

Unless they make a turn-based version of GT.

 

[Falango]

I don't think GT6 would really benefit enough from 4k resolution, considering I can't see them getting enough out of 2k resolution without having frame rate and other problems. Before going to 4k, I'd rather see better anti aliasing and better shadows. The resources are better spent that way.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

Back in my day, this was cutting edge and made my friends and I say WOW!...

Back then we took what we got and rarely asked for more. So these days, every little step is an improvement and i'm thankful for it.

4k gaming is far from essential and still a fair few years away from being standard issue. 3D is useless too IMO.

Edit: Screenshot is from Stunt Car Racer on the Commodore Amiga 500. The engine sound in this game may be better than GT5 .

 

[Fgame]

Sony have a big interest and investment in 4k. Sony and PD have also demo'd 4k GT.
In Japan in an office somewhere will be a working version of GT 4K running on a PS4 dev kit.
Conversely to that Sony would like mainstream games to be 1080p standardised and rich in detail and PD may have agreed. Also if PS4 has HDMI 1.4 then the hand would have been forced anyway as they would not do a racing game at 30fps.
I believe PS4 is powerful enough to do 4k60fps but only maintaining the low track detail low texture/ colour depth of GT5. Which to many people would not look next gen. Though I think it would look good on a 4k TV, the cars especially.

 

[Tornado]

Unless they make a turn-based version of GT.

Just kick GT6's resolution up to 4k. Then it will look turn based.

 

[787bcgr]

4k is a very good looking resolution, the main problem is the cost of 4k TV's, with some costing as much as a new car. I think it would be better if they focused on 120fps gaming, which would be amazing in a racing game such as GT.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

It depends on what you're watching. If I'm on YouTube, 480 is fine, but I'm also partly limited by my Internet speed. I've been able to watch in 720 elsewhere, but it just looks SO much nicer. And I've seen 480 and 720 up scaled on 1080 screens, and I'm able tell the difference. 1080 just looks so much more crisp. I'm on an iPad 3 with retina display right now, and it's phenomenal. I remember getting my MacBook Pro in 2011, being impressed with the pixel density, but now this blows it out of the water. I've see (I believe) the ~2.7k displays available on the newer MacBooks, and again, they just look SO much nicer, even from a difference. At least for me. A 4k screen will look even better. And using iPhone apps on the iPad allows me to upscale the app, making it 4x bigger (2x wide and 2x tall). Even with the retina display, I can see the pixelation from the upscale, and 4k won't be too different.

4k will become affordable and the mainstream, eventually, just as HD is now. Remember when 1080 TV's were a few thousand dollars? I certainly do. And we were broadcasting WVGA, now were doing full 1080. I'm betting we'll end up the same way with 4k. And I'm still on an old WVGA tube. Cameras are supporting 4k video (like my GoPro Hero 3 Black), and we're going to need something to support it.

4k may not happen in this generation of gaming, but I'd bet my money on next gen. Maybe some exploration with it this gen, sort of like the PS2 GT's 1080i experimentations. Then full 4k on PS5.

I use a iMac with a retina display at work, and it is very helpful because I'm a designer. That's sitting maybe 18" from the screen. But when I'm at home, I sit about 8' from my 720p, 42" Panasonic Plasma and I have to say 720p is fine. My brother has the a similar Panasonic in 1080p and I honestly cannot tell the difference. I would rather have a TV with very good colors and deep blacks (NOT LED) rather than some 4k LCD thing.

 

[Samus]

I said the PS4 is capable of 4k gaming. Its impossible to dispute with the level of hardware. Sony have said they are not supporting 4k gaming on the PS4. That is not a hardware choice but a marketing one. They just want to create a standard around 1080p gaming, either 30fps or 60fps and high detail features.
You could easily have a chess game where nothing is animated its just a still image of the board and the frame redraws once every few seconds at most, so effectively graphics of 0fps at 4k, even though the static image refreshes at 30fps. With a secondary layer for the cursor which updates 30fps.
Or you could have a kind of puzzle/observation/quiz game involving images where there is not even a cursor, but you just press certain buttons to progress to the result page and next image etc.
Lack of 4k support for gaming is nothing to do with the hardware inside the PS4 making it impossible.
The only unknown I have, as I have said earlier in the thread is that it cant do 60fps 4k unless it has HDMI 2.0, if it doesn't then its restricted to 30fps.
HDMI 2.0 is being announced next month and its targeted release date. Possibly too late for PS4, and the next 4k blu-ray update unfortunately.
Some TV brands like Samsung are offering to make upgrade kits to fit in the new port boards for existing customer. For playstation they might just wait until PS5. Though Sony could revise the PS4 at some point for the slim version with HDMI 2.0 if they miss it at launch.
I have just read that Sony are upgrading customers of the 4k X9 TV with new HDMI boards with a home visit. People are suggesting this is the HDMI 2.0 ports. Though Sony are not officially saying they are the 2.0, likely because the port has not been officially released to market.

Who knows the trends of gaming, look at angry birds. But maybe you are sarcastic and saying it would not be popular. And if so that would suggest why Sony are not supporting 4k gaming. The actual PS4, of course can do 4k gaming, but non tech people don't understand that point I think.

Sony have a big interest and investment in 4k. Sony and PD have also demo'd 4k GT.
In Japan in an office somewhere will be a working version of GT 4K running on a PS4 dev kit.
Conversely to that Sony would like mainstream games to be 1080p standardised and rich in detail and PD may have agreed. Also if PS4 has HDMI 1.4 then the hand would have been forced anyway as they would not do a racing game at 30fps.
I believe PS4 is powerful enough to do 4k60fps but only maintaining the low track detail low texture/ colour depth of GT5. Which to many people would not look next gen. Though I think it would look good on a 4k TV, the cars especially.

First of all you keep saying 4k at 30fps. HDMI 1.4 can't do 4k at 30fps, it's 24fps max. No PS4 game is ever going to be released running at a max of 24fps. As for HDMI 2.0 it's not out yet and the PS4 hardware had to be finalized months ago, it will already be in production.

Secondly even if PS4 can technically output 4k at 24fps it doesn't mean it has the graphical power to output quality games. If they still look as rough as GT5 what would be the point of 4k? Higher resolution is pointless if the textures are still poor, they'll just look even worse. Then it's still running at 24fps so again, not going to happen.

That you believe PS4 is capable of 4k @ 60fps is quite ridiculous when devs are currently struggling to get 1080p at 60fps, most going for 30fps. But somehow you think they can quadruple the pixel count, increase the textures to look good at that res and double the fps? With a GPU just below a HD7870? Yeah, no.

 

[Lain]

4k is a very good looking resolution, the main problem is the cost of 4k TV's, with some costing as much as a new car. I think it would be better if they focused on 120fps gaming, which would be amazing in a racing game such as GT.

How about they focus on 240 FPS 8K 4D gaming? That would be even more amazinger in a racing game such as GT.

And no, I'm not mocking you or being sarcastic, despite the joking "4D" I threw in there.

I don't care what any forumgoer says about what the human eye can or can't percieve, resolution and framerate-wise. 1080p and 60 FPS are not sufficient, not even on sub-60" displays. Resolutions need to be at least 4K on sub-60" displays and at least 8K on 60-90" to hide aliasing from a normal viewing distance. Anti-aliasing isn't the best way to combat aliasing, especially on super-thin details like power lines or fences which just get turned into blurry antialiasing smudgefests.


And regarding framerates, sure the human eye might not even be capable of seeing at 240 Hz. But that doesn't mean that higher framerates won't still look smoother. Screen tearing would be virtually imperceptible without the need for v-sync. And minor framerate fluctuations would also be unnoticable at 240+ Hz, whereas at 30 and even 60 Hz, these fluctuations are definitely noticable even if it doesn't ever come close to dropping so low as to turn into a slideshow.

 

[Samus]

....and when do you think we'll have a graphics card to power 8K games? 20 years, maybe? I'm pretty sure we'll get to the stage where high levels of AA are much more manageable than 8k and no AA required.

 

[shoemaker]

i will reserve judgement on 4k until after the world cup which sony is filming in 4k to broadcast in japan and demo its sets when they hit the shelves properly in 14 months or so.for now the couple of sets that are available are too expensive and barely anything to watch. it will be a long time before sky uk broadcast 4k, they wont even do 1080p yet. if you wanna game in 4k then you need serious dollar for a top spec pc and tv.iam in no rush and will just wait and see

 

[Fgame]

First of all you keep saying 4k at 30fps. HDMI 1.4 can't do 4k at 30fps, it's 24fps max. No PS4 game is ever going to be released running at a max of 24fps. As for HDMI 2.0 it's not out yet and the PS4 hardware had to be finalized months ago, it will already be in production.

Secondly even if PS4 can technically output 4k at 24fps it doesn't mean it has the graphical power to output quality games. If they still look as rough as GT5 what would be the point of 4k? Higher resolution is pointless if the textures are still poor, they'll just look even worse. Then it's still running at 24fps so again, not going to happen.

That you believe PS4 is capable of 4k @ 60fps is quite ridiculous when devs are currently struggling to get 1080p at 60fps, most going for 30fps. But somehow you think they can quadruple the pixel count, increase the textures to look good at that res and double the fps? With a GPU just below a HD7870? Yeah, no.

HDMI 1.4 can do 4k at 30fps, so stop saying it cant. You are maybe confused by the different aspects 4k has, it has different ones for different uses. There is cinema 4k which is 24fps and there is standardised 4k which is 30fps, the pixels are 4096x2160 and 3840x2160 respectively.

Owners of Sony TV are claiming to already to have upgraded HDMI 2.0 boards fitted to their TV by Sony technical support teams. Of course 2.0 is not officially out yet, I have already said, it maybe too late.
You remind me of the multitude of PC obsessives.
You are blinkered by comparing to PC hardware systems. A PS4 can do more than 3 titan cards in SLI in the right optimisation environment. So thats why its not relevant to compare.
But I dont claim and never have that you will get next gen looking games in 4k at 60fps on the PS4, but it could do GT6, as seen in the demo, in 4k60fps.
It's basic common sense which you are not using.
The PS4 is minimum 4 times the power in graphical capability compared to PS3. With both systems getting equal time on dedicated optimisation then PS4 can produce 4x the processing to do 3840x2160pixels, 2880x2160 native,(GT6 is 1440x1080 native).
The media has said PS4 is 4.5x the total power of PS3.
PS4 1.8tflops, PS3 quoted as 400gflops peak. But that is a worst case scenario at 4.5x performance as in reality the memory 16x more capacity, and faster bandwidth, and there are multiple features in the hardware that allow for reallocating of tasks.
Early titles will suffer low resolution or fps due to having not enough development time for dedicated optimisation.
So there were only a few 1080p PS3 titles, but it would be those ones, including GT that could easily without much effort be 4k60fps. But as I say the detail or novel features compared to other next gen games would be disappointing.
Far Cry 3 on the PS4 could be 1080p and 60fps with little effort, but maybe 15fps in 4k.
GT is the best candidate for 4k60fps, but only if the PS4 had HDMI 2.0.
If they missed it I hope they include it on the slim version model thay always do.

 

[Tornado]

What demo showed GT6 4k@60fps that has any relevance to the PS4?

You are blinkered by comparing to PC hardware systems. A PS4 can do more than 3 titan cards in SLI in the right optimisation environment. So thats why its not relevant to compare.

Right. So basically it's not relevant to compare because it's not suitable for your argument.

If they missed it I hope they include it on the slim version model thay always do.

 

[Samus]

A PS4 can do more than 3 titan cards in SLI in the right optimisation environment.

Citation required for ridiculous claim that a $400 machine can do more than $3000 worth of GPU.

 

[Foxiol]

No on PSN about a month ago there was a free software download that comes with 4k content. If you have a 4k TV you can play the 4k content.
Foxiol you should give up, you have no clue.

I don´t have the patience for reply for things like that but oh well...

I play games since 1990...back in the days with a Spectrum and Atari...I know how hardware and graphics works and evolve in time.

You need to be realist, with the hardware provided in the next gen consoles you can´t do that much, and it ends right there.

There is nothing to debate or discuss.

The logic thing to say is: If a PC which has hardware evolving exponentially every year, can´t do 4K unless you are using quad SLI/crossfire (4 GPU´s at once) at a decent playable frame rates...in a console, which uses the same hardware over the years, it is just impossible.

And I´m tired to say this, but if a device does 4K and you don´t own a 4K UHD TV it is as useless as a car without gas and without a charged battery.

On PS5?...maybe who knows...hardware is advancing exponentially and from here to 5 years GPU´s will run at higher resolutions and using way better textures than now using more memory as we can see now (GPU´s with 2/3/4 and 6GB as the GTX Titan).

You can do a lot of stuff using software (API´s like OpenGL/CL, DX9/10/11/11.1 and 11.2 which now allows to stream parts of the process from the cloud) today but it still depends in the physical parts of your machine...the hardware.

This thread is about Gran Turismo 6 and about 4K which is possible in the PS4 but just for upscale movies or reproduce (the ones that will come) to UHD TV´s (which cost a lot of money) that the majority of us still don´t own.

But gaming will not be possible because of the hardware already "outdated", and it doesn´t affect if the PS4 has its own architecture and more vRAM that you can´t find in current GPU´s on PC...and the way you can optimize games for the hardware.
It is not enough to run games at 4K.

You are the one who want that to happen but it won´t. Sorry, No.

Citation required for ridiculous claim that a $400 machine can do more than $3000 worth of GPU.

👍

 

[freshseth83]

PS4 isn't out yet. GT6 on PS4 isnt confirmed. Maybe this thread shouldn't exist in this section, its just creating arguments about things no one has specifics on anyway.

 

[Spagetti69]

Sony flogged 3D to death awhile back. Possibly to the detriment of GT5 (who knows). I think they have learnt their lesson by now.

 

[Fgame]

You are the one who want that to happen but it won´t. Sorry, No.




👍

I dont want it to happen, and I dont think it will. I want 1080ps 60fps, and I think that is what I will get. Your perspective of the argument seems to be mostly wrong.

 

[Spagetti69]

I dont want it to happen, and I dont think it will. I want 1080ps 60fps, and I think that is what I will get. Your perspective of the argument seems to be mostly wrong.

In all games or just GT?