5-second penalties: your opinion?

[Parnelli Bone]

Before I ever played GT4, I heard about 5-second penalties. I thought "what a good idea...that'll show those cheaters!" In other words, I thought they would be a great way to stop all the losers who bash other cars to get ahead. Now that I've done plenty of Special Condition races, my opinion has drastically changed! 👎

I strive to run a close race, but a clean one. I value skill over puntability. I pride myself that I can make clean racing lines in corners. Bla bla bla. The problem is in many Special Condition races, the opponents simply DO NOT CARE about racing clean. They seem to KNOW exactly when and where to hit me... cause another dreaded 5-second penatlty.

I can't tell you how many times I've driven these races cautiously, trying to make every moment an efficient one, yet the AI IS ALLOWED TO BASH ME TO OBLIVION!!! WHY? Why can't they get penalties if they hit me??? It's stupid as hell. Unfair. 👎

In the future, PD, if you include a penalty system, make sure it only activates if you actually PUSH a car off-course. Light taps and fender-rubbing should not cause penalties...for the sake of the flow of a good race.

 

[Nicksfix]

A PD glitch , I'm guessing. Agree with you though , it's aggrevating at times

 

[TheBook]

I had heard about them before I ever played GT4 (I lurked around here for a while before I ever got the game), and I thought they would be a good idea. It was, in theory; execution, however, left a lot to be desired. I think it did make me a better driver, though, in the sense that I needed to keep a VERY safe distance away from anything solid-except the road, of course.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I (wait for it) don't mind them.

Usually they only get activated if you put your car in the wrong place at the wrong time and then they usually don't hurt you QUITE badly enough to prevent a win.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

...Interesting. Penalties haven't made me a better driver...that's what license tests, missions, and actual races are for. Penalties only make me a very paranoid driver...making ridiculous cornering choices I normally would never do as I race.

I've gotten into the habit of using more power than usual for Special Condition races, so that I can get just far enough ahead of the Ai, but not lose them altogether. I would prefer to just lower power even more, and get a closer race. Problem is, the Ai catches up and usually pegs me right where it hurts! So for this reason, I use a few extra horses, which I would rather not do.

In a typical Special Condition race of mine, you'll hear the opponent running just behind...never too far behind, but just far enough that I've got a lead by at least a half second I'd rather do this than get more penalties.

 

[Austin343]

I think many others share my view that the penalties are a good idea implemented poorly. I think that 5-second penalties are a good idea and require that you learn how to pass semi-cleanly and don't ride walls everywhere, and I think that a well-done penalty system should exist in GT5 (of course, the penalty could simply be car damage). But yes, they do sometimes get frustrating when the AI blindly moves into your line and hits your front bumper.

 

[PF]

I'm with RJ on this one. I'm a terrible driver: sloppy, lazy, inattentive. Whenever I am broke and go to the Bank of Capri I immediately notice on return to another race that a) my lines are better and b) pay more attention to the other cars re drafting, blocking etc.

However, I don't really race in GT4 anymore (wait, did I just divide by zero?), just tune and test cars, so it's less of an issue. When I go back to finish the spec con hall my opinion may change.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I think many others share my view that the penalties are a good idea implemented poorly.

Yup. that's a good way to put it. Penalties seem like a half-baked idea.

I think the thing I hate about them the most is that they make this so-called "simulation" very arcadish. Not only am I concentrating on making good choices (so far as pure driving & racing goes) but I'm also forced to make "space invader" type choices...in effect, very other-worldly decisions that have less to do with racing and more to do with an abstraction that would never normally exist.

I think that 5-second penalties are a good idea and require that you learn how to pass semi-cleanly and don't ride walls everywhere, and I think that a well-done penalty system should exist in GT5 (of course, the penalty could simply be car damage).

From what I understand, Kaz really, really wants to put damage in GT5....at least that's what I read in an interview at some point. I would be 100% for penalties if there was damage, for the simple fact that BOTH cars (mine and the opponent's) can be affected by an accident.

 

[RazorGTR]

I agree with Austin's post.

that's all

 

[mafia_boy]

I'm glad you made that multi choice Parnelli.

Austin has summed up my feelings aswell. If it wasn't for them deliberately slamming my front bumper I'd be having mad door rubbing battles all across the special conditions with the AI.

 

[nk4e]

There was times during a certain line while entering a corner, you can hit the computer and it won't charge you as a 5-second penalty. But I have to verify that again.

 

[Lucas]

Well, I can ride walls in the Special Conditions Events and the Licence Tests and nobody can stop me to do it, except myself, which I have stopped doing a year ago.

Yesterday I was racing in the SCE with my Elise, in Rally Umbria Normal. I got to fight the Mitsubishi Starion Rally Car. This car put a lot of a fight, but I could rarely make a pass because:

1) The few places were I was able to make a clean pass, were dead zones, since the car suddenly changes its line, thereby crashing me...
2) The track is narrow, but you can't blame that.
3) Those 5-second penalties. Every time I was going to make a pass, I slowed down, since if I go on, the Starion will eventually do something stupid, like bashing me, which would result in disaster.

Of course, I could do a 5-second free pass, but that doesn't mean it is a clean one! I had to touch him sooner or later

I do not think it is a bad idea, but it's poorly implemented. I took a look at the camera view of the AI during replays... The 🤬 doesn't get any 5-second penalty. How am I supposed to deal with that?

 

[Skygrasper550]

again, one more option missing in the choices, this time for real: they're implemented a bit too extreme in the Special Conditions Hall ..,

I mean, c'mon, you bump the AI on their butt with your speed around 10-15kph faster and you get penalized?? the hell?! my god the AI is so sensitive!!! no wonder I can't enjoy a tight race on Citta 'di Aria.., the penalties are way too "strict" on the SCH, but they're WAAAAAYY more forgiving on circuit races.., I just observed, hitting the enemy with a speed of 20-30kph , maybe even 40kph faster on a circuit race, nothing happens. try that on the SCH, O M G ..,

 

[Lucas]

In real life, a bump like that, 10-15kph faster, as you say, could make a huge difference going at 170kph as opposed to the other car's 155kph. It could be fatal. It is not too extreme, they just couldn't get it right. That's the most frustrating thing there is about 5-second penalties.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

There was times during a certain line while entering a corner, you can hit the computer and it won't charge you as a 5-second penalty. But I have to verify that again.

You're correct. There are times when I've hit the Ai without meaning to....or a wall, and I won't get the penalty. It all depends on the exact angle and force that the car hits at.

In real life, a bump like that, 10-15kph faster, as you say, could make a huge difference going at 170kph as opposed to the other car's 155kph. It could be fatal. It is not too extreme, they just couldn't get it right. That's the most frustrating thing there is about 5-second penalties.

The only reason they put penalties in GT4 (my opinion) is because I believe when PD was beta-testing the game, too many amateur beta-testers would push Ai cars off course. PD decided there had to be a way to make this not happen. I'm just guessing, tho. Without penalties, it would be way too easy for all the cheaters to make loads of credits and not have any challenge whatsoever.

 

[Sniffs]

activating the penalties even in the regular options tends to take the fun out of the game, as the player is the ONLY one that gets penalized. the first thing the cheat coders did was put in a Penalty supression code to eliminate this little glitch. switching to the "auto pit" penalty doesn't help, either, as, again, only the PLAYER gets penalized, even if the AI hits you from behind! since the AI up to four is designed to follow the racing line no matter what (I don't know how it work in 5Prologue), they inevitably push you off the road or into the dirt. for those of us trying to earn favorite models the long way, this is a deterrent to ever picking up a controller or handling a wheel ever again.

I'd also like to tell PD and KY that not everybody can afford to pick up the wheels that these games were designed for. I assume it was originally rigged this way because of the assumption that every player would have a wheel. well, some of us have to wait until said wheels go on sale or become used items to be able to afford them if we are buying them ourselves.

as someone with a leaning disability involving coordination controll, etc, this makes it harder for us.

 

[Lucas]

The place where the penalties appear in the game, where you can make a lot of cash is in the Special Conditions Events. Everyone knows that the best race to win money is the Capri Rally Easy. With that said, I don't believe it could be easier to win money than it is now. Only if you won it in larger amount of cash, since every other race does not have penalties.

Edit: I completely agree with you, Sniffs. I can't afford a wheel, and I believe I will never get my parents to buy me one. But one thing I know, and I'm sure of it, if I were to buy one, I would be scared as hell due to fear of not being able to master it, or simply not like it.

 

[tizocspeed8]

My view is that the penalties are a good idea for slowing down cheaters, but the system is flawed in that you get penalised when you are the victim of a bump. That being said, if the game could sense who was the aggressor in the collision, it might be better and well executed idea. When the AI bumps you they should also be penalised. As a person who loves the 200 A-Spec challenge, I would say that penalties for the AI would make my life easier, as the AI always bumps me and causes me to spin or hit barriers. Also, I think that penalties should only be for car collsions, not for collisions with the environment around you. I say no penalties for GT5, but if there are penalties, develop a system which is better at dtermining who is to blame and what is to be penalised

 

[Lucas]

I've started to believe that it would be unfair for the AI to be penalized because it simply can't drive. As many of you have said, it just follows its racing line. I could easily win a race with a much slower car than the AI, if I can get ahead of it. All that I must do is to block the AI and let it bump me. That's the silliest idea I've heard of. It would be a lot easier to get rid of the 5-second penalties, because implementing a good AI system and an effective penalty system... It's easier saying than do.

Besides, who cares if a player cheats against the AI? It's not like the AI is missing a prize or something

 

[Sniffs]

The place where the penalties appear in the game, where you can make a lot of cash is in the Special Conditions Events. Everyone knows that the best race to win money is the Capri Rally Easy. With that said, I don't believe it could be easier to win money than it is now. Only if you won it in larger amount of cash, since every other race does not have penalties.

Edit: I completely agree with you, Sniffs. I can't afford a wheel, and I believe I will never get my parents to buy me one. But one thing I know, and I'm sure of it, if I were to buy one, I would be scared as hell due to fear of not being able to master it, or simply not like it.

it's not just "afford" in my case. I bought the wrong wheel on top of everything else.

 

[Lucas]

Talking about bad luck

 

[oldmodelt]

Before i ever played GT4, i heard about 5-second penalties. I thought "what a good idea...that'll show those cheaters!" In other words, i thought they would be a great way to stop all the losers who bash other cars to get ahead. Now that i've done plenty of Special Condition races, my opinion has drastically changed! 👎

I strive to run a close race, but a clean one. I value skill over puntability. I pride myself that i can make clean racing lines in corners. Bla bla bla. The problem is in many Special Condition races, the opponents simply DO NOT CARE about racing clean. They seem to KNOW exactly when and where to hit me... cause another dreaded 5-second penatlty.

I can't tell you how many times i've driven these races cautiously, trying to make every moment an efficient one, yet the AI IS ALLOWED TO BASH ME TO OBLIVION!!! WHY? Why can't they get penalties if they hit me??? It's stupid as hell. Unfair. 👎

In the future, PD, if you include a penalty system, make sure it only activates if you actually PUSH a car off-course. Light taps and fender-rubbing should not cause penalties...for the sake of the flow of a good race.

I worked hard to win CT I to get the Escudo. I take it over to Swiss Alps - medium thinking it will be a Sunday drive. At the start before I get 20 yards the AI moves over and slams into me. No corner in sight. It got to the point that I had to delay my start so the AI would be ahead and then catch up.

Same thing happened in CT I. Had to ramp up the HP in the Toyota Rally Raid car and pray it didn't bang into me while trying to pass it after the start.

 

[LancerEvo7]

It's defnitely annoying in GT4, but I hope PD keeps a refined version of it in GT5's SC Hall, including AI penalties and a fairer system that doesn't ruin good battles.

 

[Tornado]

I worked hard to win CT I to get the Escudo. I take it over to Swiss Alps - medium thinking it will be a Sunday drive. At the start before I get 20 yards the AI moves over and slams into me. No corner in sight. It got to the point that I had to delay my start so the AI would be ahead and then catch up.

I run into that alot with the Ram, because it has really good grip off the line. It probably wouldn't be so much of a problem if the AI would get to its robotic racing line more smoothly, but it instead decides to just jump from one side of the track to the other immediately after the race starts.

 

[sanpanico]

Annoying at the very least. I always wondered why the penalty system wasn't implemented throughout the entire game if PD wanted to include it at all. I mean, if the intent was to have us become better, more aware drivers, you would want to employ that ethos into driving in ALL racing categories. From Endurance to GT Championship to Clubman Cup, Rallying, etc. where all manner of wall riding, AI slamming gets done.

Although, I would just prefer it didn't exist. I can learn to be a better driver on my own without being annoyed and wanting to smash my controller, my TV and any available flailing body part all at once down on the poor unsuspecting AI opponent.

 

[slowman]

An excellent idea implemented very poorly. Part of this is no fault of the penalty system itself, but the AI. The robotic racing line mentioned previously is very detrimental to the penalty system. I don't know how many times I've had an AI SMASH into the back of my car, sending me into a wall. Of course the AI does not get a penalty for anything. Words cannot describe the anger when you see the AI zip by you as you're stuck at 30 mph. I'm sure you all know the feeling though.

Another thing that bothers me is that it only happens from shunts and bumps at the front of the car. The penalty system can still be gamed by sliding full speed into a wall and hitting it with the rear of the car.

 

[PARAGON GT]

"They annoy me and ruin what should be a good, close match. "

I can't tell you how many close ralley races I have lost because the AI car clips my front end and I end up receiving a 5 second penalty. This is one of the worst features in GT4.

And I have always wondered why they only implimented it in the special conditions areana and not any of the others.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well, all I can say is I've noticed the system in GT5P is somewhat better than that in GT4. I rarely have even had a car run into me in GT5P. They seem much more aware of where you're at, where they're at, and where they should be. Back when I started this thread, I hadn't tried GT5P yet, so this is a bit of a happy update.

I like the fact that in some races, GT5P penalizes for grass-cuts, body-slams, and wall-slams. In real-life racing, red or black flags (or some other penalization) would be used to keep bad drivers from bringing havoc to fair drivers. The system in GT5P still isn't perfect, but it's definitely better than in GT4.

 

[Lucas]

Is that so? Good news indeed, then, for I am planning to buy GT5 in the following years, once it is released, and everyone else has spent 3 years playing it, just like with GT4 :lol

 

[dennisw]

when rally, turn enough to let your back hit the walls, no penalty's than!!