83rd Running Of The Le Mans 24 Hours - 13/14 June 2015.

[Famine]

Maybe, but apparently it's a mess under the hood and will be a real challenge to work on.

A 30 minute clutch change doesn't sound challenging.

So anyway, this was always the plan. Nissan was never going for the win in 2015. It was going for the publicity - a completely different concept to get everyone talking about it. 2016 is the target.

There was a brief spell of optimism with the 2015 WEC season, but a number of issues forced an abandonment and a return to plan A.


Personally I think the fact they've got an FWD LMP1 into ballpark territory is bonkers. And that's without considering that it's doing without 1000hp of electric assistance - or that it's trapping at 337km/h anyway when it's apparently tippy-toeing through the corners... it must be extraordinarily aerodynamically efficient.

 

[RobertM525]

Personally I think the fact they've got an FWD LMP1 into ballpark territory is bonkers. And that's without considering that it's doing without 1000hp of electric assistance - or that it's trapping at 337km/h anyway when it's apparently tippy-toeing through the corners... it must be extraordinarily aerodynamically efficient.

Yeah, I've seen some stuff about its aero package being quite impressive, too. Apparently it's really high downforce and low drag. There's no knocking that aspect of it, for sure. It's just the drivetrain bits that don't seem up to snuff yet. The 2016 version should be quite interesting.

 

[Aloha62_2]

A 30 minute clutch change doesn't sound challenging.

So anyway, this was always the plan. Nissan was never going for the win in 2015. It was going for the publicity - a completely different concept to get everyone talking about it. 2016 is the target.

There was a brief spell of optimism with the 2015 WEC season, but a number of issues forced an abandonment and a return to plan A.


Personally I think the fact they've got an FWD LMP1 into ballpark territory is bonkers. And that's without considering that it's doing without 1000hp of electric assistance - or that it's trapping at 337km/h anyway when it's apparently tippy-toeing through the corners... it must be extraordinarily aerodynamically efficient.

It has got bad publicity, especially outside of the moderatly pro-nissan GTP forum also it's without about 700bhp electric assistance, still a lot but that twin turbo v6 lump develops more then the average sporty hatchback.

 

[trustjab]

TS050 next year, brand new car, engine and hybrid system per Toyota.

 

[sk8er913]

It has got bad publicity, especially outside of the moderatly pro-nissan GTP forum also it's without about 700bhp electric assistance, still a lot but that twin turbo v6 lump develops more then the average sporty hatchback.

Lol, hmm. Now I wonder why GTP is pro-Nissan. GTAcademy is some really good advertisement!

 

[Famine]

It has got bad publicity, especially outside of the moderatly pro-nissan GTP forum

Odd that most of the mainstream outlets are talking about nothing else, really. I did see a brief mention of Neel Jani's qualifying record - and then back to Nissan it was.

also it's without about 700bhp electric assistance, still a lot but that twin turbo v6 lump develops more then the average sporty hatchback.

Just about 500hp. The combined engine and 8MJ hybrid system accounts for 1600hp on the bench. You do the math.

They'd have had 1250hp in 2MJ trim.

Now I wonder why GTP is pro-Nissan. GTAcademy is some really good advertisement!

GTP isn't pro-Nissan. I have five cars and all are Mazdas.

 

[Furinkazen]

Odd that most of the mainstream outlets are talking about nothing else, really. I did see a brief mention of Neel Jani's qualifying record - and then back to Nissan it was. Just about 500hp. The combined engine and 8MJ hybrid system accounts for 1600hp on the bench. You do the math.

They'd have had 1250hp in 2MJ trim.

Based on my calculations with Porsche and Nissan I came to conclusion 1MJ is around 150hp on these cars. Seem reasonable?

 

[Bo]

I've seen IC power quotes as low as 450.

 

[trustjab]

It depends on release cycle. 2mj = 2000kw/second. 1kw is 1.34hp. So 2mj is potentially 2680hp for 1 second. Or if they do a 10 second total per lap its 268hp. That increases 4x if youre in 8mj class. So potentially 1072hp boost for "10 seconds" per lap! But the hybrid efficiency needs to be taken into account.

 

[FoolKiller]

It has got bad publicity,

Does not exist, unless you went on a bigoted rant or raped someone (and even that doesn't hurt in many pro sports), neither of which a car can do.

Everyone is talking about them. If only 1% of everyone is interested and 1% of those want to be involved in some way, they have succeeded. And if they pull off something amazing in 2016 the story will be one that lives on forever.


Think of it like the Jamaican Bobsled Team.

 

[Spirit]

I'm going to be having family over at my house tomorrow for my graduation "open house" and they're just going to have to deal with the fact I'll be watching the race about as much, if not more than I'll be talking with them.

 

[Aloha62_2]

Odd that most of the mainstream outlets are talking about nothing else, really. I did see a brief mention of Neel Jani's qualifying record - and then back to Nissan it was. Just about 500hp. The combined engine and 8MJ hybrid system accounts for 1600hp on the bench. You do the math.

They'd have had 1250hp in 2MJ trim.
GTP isn't pro-Nissan. I have five cars and all are Mazdas.

Yes all the mainstream outlets are talking about nissan, 'nissans penalised for being too slow, 'nissan running without hybrid', 'nissan struggling to get car working properly', 'nissan racing the lmp2 field'. All awesome headlines for a team who exists as a PR function to sell sports cars.

It was approximately 1250bhp with 8MJ trim, ben bowlby confirmed as much to radio lemans and dailysportscar, that was in the 4wd drive config which had 6MJ going to rears. It was then 2MJ and Front wheel drive before they had to give up on that leaving it just combustion powered. To put it in perspective the Toyota made headlines last year at being around 1000bhp which has been matched (and more) this year by Audi and Porsche, the 1250 was already an immense jump. 1600 simply isn't happening.

MJ can't be directly converted to BHP as it needs a function over time, you can't 'do the math' without context for when that energy is applied.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yes all the mainstream outlets are talking about nissan, 'nissans penalised for being too slow, 'nissan running without hybrid', 'nissan struggling to get car working properly', 'nissan racing the lmp2 field'. All awesome headlines for a team who exists as a PR function to sell sports cars.

It was approximately 1250bhp with 8MJ trim, ben bowlby confirmed as much to radio lemans and dailysportscar, that was in the 4wd drive config which had 6MJ going to rears. It was then 2MJ and Front wheel drive before they had to give up on that leaving it just combustion powered. To put it in perspective the Toyota made headlines last year at being around 1000bhp which has been matched (and more) this year by Audi and Porsche, the 1250 was already an immense jump. 1600 simply isn't happening.

MJ can't be directly converted to BHP as it needs a function over time, you can't 'do the math' without context for when that energy is applied.

Who's got more news headlines this last 72 hours... Porsche or Nissan?

 

[Bigbazz]

Is the LeMans footage behind a paywall this year? The Le Mans website isn't exactly very clear, I think I will just watch the manufacturer onboards with Radio LeMans audio.

 

[FoolKiller]

While I'm at it, have a GTP blog post.

I'm planning to do a companion blog post and update throughout the race, along with live Tweeting it on the GTP Twitter. That should be fun.

I'm going to go ahead and give a preemptive thanks, since I have a full day tomorrow and the Twitter feed will likely be the only way I will have to keep up with it at all times. It might look bad using headphones to listen to Radio LeMans while having a birthday dinner at the country club.

 

[Aloha62_2]

Who's got more news headlines this last 72 hours... Porsche or Nissan?

I'm sure Nissan are ecstatic at how quickly the news of their problems has spread across the motoring world-

Here are those headlines in order they have appeared on google news.

Le Mans 24 Hour grid penalty for Nissan LMP1s

Le Mans News: Nissan remains 'committed' despite Le Mans struggles

Le Mans: Nissan driver Harry Tincknell hoping for an upset at 24 ...

See What It's Like Onboard The Nissan GT-R LM Nismo At Le Mans

Nissan GT-R LM Nismo still running at the back of the pack

Jann Mardenborough opens up about fatal Nurburgring crash as he ..

Or porsche

Le Mans 24 Hours 2015: Porsche prove unbeatable in...

Le Mans 24 Hours: Porsche and Audi set for a great show

Porsche on pole for 2015 Le Mans 24H

Porsche: Qualifying 1-2-3 fills us with confidence

Motorsports - Porsche take top three grid places at Le Mans

Porsche chasing first victory in 17 years at Le Mans


Man, that just makes me want to rush to the showroom and buy whatever version of the GTR is now on sale.

 

[Bo]

I'm fairly sure they don't care, since they're preoccupied with getting a car up to scratch so it will prove an effective marketing tool, and complete their goal.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

A tad wet today, also wasn't helped that when it got really heavy Nissan asked everyone to leave the show stand and locked everyone out

 

[Unibob]

I'm already really excited for the race and there's still 19 hours before it starts.

Here is my list that I'm rooting for.
LMP1: Not really rooting for any team here, but hoping for some good battles.
LMP2: Same as LMP1.
GTE-Pro: Corvette Racing.
GTE-Am: Not really rooting for any specific team, but I do want to see Aston Martin Racing do well.

I'm hoping there will be an official feed of sorts, like there was last year, outside of the usual Nismo TV, as I'm not even sure if the early hours of the race will even be televised in the states. My channel guide on Dish Network hasn't shown anything listed yet. Best of luck to all the teams and their drivers and hope there are no major incidents.

 

[Famine]

Based on my calculations with Porsche and Nissan I came to conclusion 1MJ is around 150hp on these cars. Seem reasonable?

No, it's not that simple.

Joules are a measure of work (force times distance - you can think of a joule as a unit of torque if you like). You need a time component to turn a joule into a watt (1W = 1J/s), which is power. 8MJ available for 3.5 minutes would be 38kW - about 50hp. 8MJ available for 35 seconds would be 228kW - about 300hp.

The Toyota TS040 looks to have a 6MJ hybrid system that it can deploy for 17s a lap. That's 473hp.

If Nissan's 8MJ hybrid was worth the 1,100hp it benched at, they'd have only been able to use it for about 9s per lap - given that Bowlby told Road and Track that an 8MJ system failure would cost about 7s per lap, I think we can say we're about ballpark for the amount of time the Nissan would deploy it. Assuming the 2MJ system had identical limitations, it would have been worth 300hp, bringing the total powertrain to about 800hp.

Yes all the mainstream outlets are talking about nissan, 'nissans penalised for being too slow, 'nissan running without hybrid', 'nissan struggling to get car working properly', 'nissan racing the lmp2 field'. All awesome headlines for a team who exists as a PR function to sell sports cars.

Now let's look at the headlines that Toyota and Audi are getting...

... no, I'll find some in a minute, hang on...


Incidentally, you've gone to the wrong mainstream. You've gone right for the racing sites for the bad news (incidentally, I loved the Express & Echo's picture for Harry Tinckell ). Try the car ones... almost every major motoring outlet in the UK has been talking non-stop about the Nissan and its tech:

Let's start with the world's oldest motoring periodical Autocar - I don't recall them doing that with the new Porsche last year... How about everyone's favourite Top Gear, which has managed not just two GT-R LMP1 articles in the last quarter but three. Again, nothing on the Audi, Toyota or Porsche - though they did do a nice four-way piece on them too. Shall we visit the darling of the 18-25 set Carthrottle? CT has gone a bit Nissan GT-R LM crazy, covering it every couple of weeks - sometimes with an article, sometimes just sharing NISMO's videos and occasionally just telling everyone to listen to it for two minutes.

Ordinary people don't care about racing. They won't know the results on Sunday, they won't know who's driving it, they won't know it was the 3rd quickest car in the rain at the test day and they certainly won't know it ambled round at 110% and was penalised 19 places as a result. They won't care if it falls over or wins - NISMO has done its job getting the car into the mainstream motoring press, because it's bizarre.

MJ can't be directly converted to BHP as it needs a function over time, you can't 'do the math' without context for when that energy is applied.

Yeah, oddly I know that - having discussed how awful PS is as a unit on this site the week before last.

That wasn't the math I was telling you to do - but it turns out not to be all that hard, as I'm sure you can see above.

 

[Roger the Horse]

At the start of the race I'll be rooting for the following:

LMP1: Porsche/Rebellion
LMP2: The OAK because it's pink
GTE: Aston Martin

By the time the race ends I'll be rooting for whoever deserves the win.

 

[Aloha62_2]

Incidentally, you've gone to the wrong mainstream. You've gone right for the racing sites for the bad news (incidentally, I loved the Express & Echo's picture for Harry Tinckell ). Try the car ones... almost every major motoring outlet in the UK has been talking non-stop about the Nissan and its tech:

I didn't go to a single racing site, I simply typed nissan into the most popular news source there is. Google. While google do convert a few cars for research purposes I'm pretty sure they are not a racing company.

Let's start with the world's oldest motoring periodical Autocar - I don't recall them doing that with the new Porsche last year... How about everyone's favourite Top Gear, which has managed not just two GT-R LMP1 articles in the last quarter but three. Again, nothing on the Audi, Toyota or Porsche - though they did do a nice four-way piece on them too. Shall we visit the darling of the 18-25 set Carthrottle? CT has gone a bit Nissan GT-R LM crazy, covering it every couple of weeks - sometimes with an article, sometimes just sharing NISMO's videos and occasionally just telling everyone to listen to it for two minutes.

All old news now, quickly falling down the screens and being replaced by the more recent disappointments, those who did get interested by those articles and returning won't be getting the same upbeat media.

That wasn't the math I was telling you to do - but it turns out not to be all that hard, as I'm sure you can see above.

If it wasn't that hard how did you add it up to 1600?

 

[Whodoyouthink]

I just realized there is no special Garage 56 entry this year! I guess the Nissans are the closest thing though, so I guess I shouldn't complain.


My hopes are:

LMP1: Porsche, been rooting for them since they returned. Nissan has my support too, but we can;t expect a win anyway.
GTE: Corvette racing! That Aston is quite beautiful though! I save pictures of it for future inspiration!
GTE AM: None other than Dempsey Proton racing! His story is very inspiring, especially since he started late in life!

 

[HKS racer]

Why should the ACO be babying Nissan? 'Cause they've thrown a lot of money at this? It's not the ACO's fault that Nissan did a huge marketing push on a car that wasn't ready to compete with Audi, Porsche, and Toyota. The rules for qualifying slow apply to every car on the grid. Nissan shouldn't get a pass "because it'll make them bitter" and "they might look bad." If they look bad because their car is too slow, do they not deserve that?

This interpretation is of the rule has sense but is way too harsh expecially when no LMP1 cars will be effected by not penalizing Nissan. One of the cool things about racing is competing with different ideas and this year they brought quite a lot of interest with this radical new design. But hey, as long as Nissan is not making a big deal I don't either. Better luck next year.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

@Holdenhsvgtsr: Can I use one of your photos as an avatar?

Sure.

 

[RACECAR]

It has got bad publicity, especially outside of the moderatly pro-nissan GTP forum.

Google.co.uk results don't count as "Mainstream" so the "negative Publicity" regarding their performance isn't known to the rest of the world who doesn't give a damn about racing (Especially with the whole FIFA corruption thing going on and of course celebrities always making headlines even when they don't try). You seem to assume everyone knows by now and Nissan is a laughing stock of the world when its ONLY the racing community that's keenly aware.

 

[Famine]

I didn't go to a single racing site, I simply typed nissan into the most popular news source there is. Google. While google do convert a few cars for research purposes I'm pretty sure they are not a racing company.

Again, too specific. Only people who are searching for Nissan would get those results.

People looking for a car would usually end up at a car website (or magazine). And they're full of Nissan right now.

All old news now, quickly falling down the screens and being replaced by the more recent disappointments, those who did get interested by those articles and returning won't be getting the same upbeat media.

You're welcome to post the more recent disappointing Nissan news on those websites.

If it wasn't that hard how did you add it up to 1600?

I'm pretty sure that 500hp + 1100hp is not awfully tricky.

I mean, I did just refer you to the earlier part of that post that you didn't quote - showing that 8MJ for 8.7s is 1,100hp using math - and Bowlby claims that the 8MJ system is worth 7s a lap if it fails, 1,100hp seems to be a pretty decent estimate. And the 3.0 V6 is quoted at 500hp just about everywhere...

Google.co.uk results don't count as "Mainstream" so the "negative Publicity" regarding their performance isn't known to the rest of the world who doesn't give a damn about racing (Especially with the whole FIFA corruption thing going on and of course celebrities always making headlines even when they don't try). You seem to assume everyone knows by now and Nissan is a laughing stock of the world when its ONLY the racing community that's keenly aware.

I imagine much of the actual racing community is currently wondering how Nissan has got a car driving the front wheels with no hybrid assistance whatsoever within 10% of their lap times inside 4 90 minute sessions - and despite a significant corner speed deficit, as fast as them at the end of the straights.

The community that's laughing at it is probably the same community that laughed at the DeltaWing.

 

[mikeerfol]

LMP1: Toyota (Yeah I know it's a tough one but what the hell ), I hope Nissan doesn't do too bad as well.
To be honest with you I don't really follow the other classes, I hope the Ligier-Hondas do well and hopefully the Ferraris won't take out any LMP1s

 

[DK]

I take it it's too late for a reserve team to be called up to replace the ruined Corvette?

 

[RACECAR]

I imagine much of the actual racing community is currently wondering how Nissan has got a car driving the front wheels with no hybrid assistance whatsoever within 10% of their lap times inside 4 90 minute sessions - and despite a significant corner speed deficit, as fast as them at the end of the straights.

The community that's laughing at it is probably the same community that laughed at the DeltaWing.

Oh I remember those times, including the Penis jokes that ensued (before F1 in 2014 ended up having more of it)