85 MPG Cars, And Everyone Thought I was Crazy.

  • Thread starter Sam48
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Then speed isn't much a factor, is it? Whether people are in slow cars or fast cars they're still going to run into things because they're dumb. The problem arises when some people are going fast and some people are going slow - then the speed differential becomes dangerous.

Agreed 100%.

Like Famine said, there's nothing inherently dangerous with slow cars, but I strongly believe that there is a problem with slow people. And back to my point, putting them in slower cars makes them go even slower and therefore makes them that much more dangerous. This is why I advocate cooperation amongst drivers. I'll work with you if you work with me and vice versa, but when they're in cars that are faster than mine yet are already refusing to cooperate with the norm, the very last thing you should do is put them in a slower car because they'll cooperate that much less.

I partially agree here... Purely because of that speed difference thing.

That said, I don't think you're entirely right about them refusing to use a car's potential, rather that they're only comfortable with a certain rate of acceleration.

Drivers in America will never be able to agree on anything because half of them are eager and the other half are stubborn. I'd be glad to drive a 5 horsepower car and get a billion miles per gallon, but ol' dude in the Avalanche just isn't having it.

I'd ague that even if every single car on the road was a shoebox there would still be a ridiculous speed differential and there would still be just as many accidents. But hey, at least we're all getting good mileage, right?

Make everyone commute in a hallway. Wanna guess how many times people will run into others? Yep. :lol:

My problem is always douchebags in RX-7s that for some reason think they have a performance car but in reality their car isn't even capable of accelerating up a 3% grade onramp if the air conditioning is on. And while it's taking 9 or 10 seconds to get to 60 mph it's consuming the same gasoline as a small V8 and puking apex seals out its exhaust pipe.

Funny, my car has exactly the same amount of power stock as an NA FC, has an automatic transmission, and has absolutely no trouble ever anywhere.

I like how you've latched onto Keef as a target whenever possible though. Jealousy perhaps? Juuuuuuuuust sayin'.



As for slow vehicles in general... I can't say too much about driving "slow" vehicles... Slowest I ever drove would've been a 1976 Vega, though this was prior to getting my license... 60mph took something around 20 seconds at WFO, "88"hp + automatic + 30 years of use, abuse, and sitting for extended periods = car doesn't want to get anywhere quickly. Slowest I've actually had to deal with would by my uncle's 2000 F150... Which isn't exactly slow (V6 5-speed), just it makes a huge fuss if you try to go quickly. That said, as long as I can pass a semi in a reasonable amount of time I'm not too worried about a "slow" car. There's very few vehicles built in the last 20 years that would struggle with doing so. As long as the car can hold 70mph uphill I'm fine with it.
 
Horsepower needs to be looked at in relation to weight, I think that's something people forget.

True. I've never owned a car weighing more than a metric ton and none have been anywhere near dangerous on fast roads.

16.8 for the smart and the KA is around the 14 mark depending on the trim. In large part that will be the auto box in the smart really holding it back, a Ka should show it's heals if driven properly and not down on power or laden with weight.

I'm finding figures around 16 for the later 54bhp smart like I drove and a look at my old Fiesta with the same engine as the Ka shows 14.8. Given that my smart was new (but run-in) and the Ka was an early one and therefore knocking on for 14 years old, I'd expect the pace to be nearly identical.

Still, my point was that neither are dangerous in the UK despite their slowness as long as you're prepared to drive them to their capabilities. I had my Fiesta for over six years without ever feeling like it was dangerous at speed (or getting up to speed). I've no doubt I could have comfortably used it in the States too.

I agree with Keef's point that many drivers over in the States probably never use more than 50% of their car's power and still expect to be able to comfortably merge on a freeway. If they tried the same in a 60bhp car they'd get themselves into a lot of trouble.

People these days are idiots. Even in car magazines vehicles with less than 100bhp are bemoaned for not being suitable for overtaking, but it's because everyone is lazy now. When I was learning to drive I was taught how to overtake, and it involved plenty of planning, mirror checks, giving yourself space to see around the car infront, and dropping a gear or two to put the car into its powerband. If you do that, then overtaking is perfectly safe. Again, I had six years of overtaking in a 60bhp car and never once got into trouble.

Most cretins these days just expect to be able to pull out with no planning or prior warning and get past. It's these people who'd struggle with a lower powered car.
 
I'm finding figures around 16 for the later 54bhp smart like I drove and a look at my old Fiesta with the same engine as the Ka shows 14.8. Given that my smart was new (but run-in) and the Ka was an early one and therefore knocking on for 14 years old, I'd expect the pace to be nearly identical.

To be honest most people can't hit their 0-60 times in a manual. An auto is a straight forward affair, you put your foot to the floor and wait to hit it, but your average person either through a mix of not being able to or willing to doesn't come close to their manual cars capabilities. I'd say the 14s for a Ka is a conservative rating anyway, it's probably closer to 12 if driven right.

Still, my point was that neither are dangerous in the UK despite their slowness as long as you're prepared to drive them to their capabilities. I had my Fiesta for over six years without ever feeling like it was dangerous at speed (or getting up to speed). I've no doubt I could have comfortably used it in the States too.

I agree with Keef's point that many drivers over in the States probably never use more than 50% of their car's power and still expect to be able to comfortably merge on a freeway. If they tried the same in a 60bhp car they'd get themselves into a lot of trouble.

People these days are idiots. Even in car magazines vehicles with less than 100bhp are bemoaned for not being suitable for overtaking, but it's because everyone is lazy now. When I was learning to drive I was taught how to overtake, and it involved plenty of planning, mirror checks, giving yourself space to see around the car infront, and dropping a gear or two to put the car into its powerband. If you do that, then overtaking is perfectly safe. Again, I had six years of overtaking in a 60bhp car and never once got into trouble.

Most cretins these days just expect to be able to pull out with no planning or prior warning and get past. It's these people who'd struggle with a lower powered car.

And it's one I agree with, didn't mean to digress so much on the topic of the Ka :)

It helps that lessons in the UK are in typically very small cars and our first cars are usually in the 50-80bhp region which requires ringing the engine of every last drop especially if you are driving with passengers.

Something with 70bhp+ will typically accelerate up to 70mph faster than anything driven by a 'normal' driver if you use it's full power and still be doing better mpg than them.
 
I don't think there are any desirable, affordable cars that get 85mpg..

I average 24mpg if I'm being careful, but despite it being a massive drain on my finances, I love my car and I'd hate to have to get rid of it for a econo-hatch...
 
After reading everything you have said I have to assume one of two things, possibly a combination of both. 1) There is an epidemic of slow drivers in Ohio not seen anywhere else. B) You move faster than the majority of traffic/are exaggerating.
I may be exaggerating a bit. As for going faster than other drivers, it depends. I will explain below.

On a daily basis I run across the one guy doing something like 60 in a 70 zone. But rarely is there more than just one. The rest of the people that appear slow are actually doing the speed limit. As traffic in general is moving faster they aren't doing the "safe speed" but I'm not about to raise a fuss over people obeying the law.
There is scientific evidence suggesting that people will drive what they feel like driving, not matter the law. In my experience this is typically over our 65 mph speed limit, more likely between 70 and 75. Some laws are stupid and without a general refusal to obey them they'll never be changed to fit the "norm". If anything over 65 really is that dangerous, then everybody is a criminal, and that is totally unreasonable.

But I wonder what your average highway speed is. You make it sound like you have to swerve around slow drivers like its an obstacle course. If that is the case then it is you not doing the safe speed.
Average smaverage. As you all know, I like my cars loud. It just so happens that when you can hear your engine you can judge how fast you are going and when your speed changes. I'm constantly taking mental note of my engine's sound, thus rpm, thus speed, and very rarely deviate even when going up and down hills without cruise control Most other people simply cannot hold a constant speed.

I love the theory of "average highway speed" so much that my cruise control is usually engaged the very second I get on the highway, provided it's safe of course. What do I find when I do this? Well, I find that obviously nobody else is using cruise control, of course. Sometimes they're accelerating away from me, and the next thing I'm suddenly barreling down on them, requiring a swift lane change to avoid their stupidity rubbing off on my bumper. Does that make me crazy, simply doing a constant speed on the highway? Am I crazy for "swerving" around people too distracted too keep track of their speed?

I also plan ahead quite far so I rarely get stuck in lanes behind slower traffic or any other annoying situations. Efficiency and smoothness is the name of the game when I'm driving, especially on the highway. Usually when I spot a person's speed changing I switch lanes with plenty of space in between, but when traffic gets tighter and people are jumping on and off the brakes like a bunch of fools, I take advantage of openings quickly and decisively, but not dangerously.

The other thing I feel I should point out is that you complain about people not accelerating to their car's full potential. Because I like my gas mileage to stay above 15 mpg I don't either. I don't need all 150 horses when leaving a traffic light. I'm not in a race. If you leave a traffic light and see everyone else is behind you by something like 20 yards by the time you reach your cruising speed, you are the one being a D-bag.
I'm not complaining that they aren't flooring it, I'm complaining that they don't get up to highway speed by the time they get to the highway. A 240 horse Camry is plenty powerful to be going 100 by the end of the ramp - I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for 70. I do it without using full throttle and only using the usual 4000 of my 8000 rpm sweep. If 4000 sounds high, keep in mind that a pseudo-diesel 5 cylinder and a 1.3 liter rotisserie have very different powerbands and special needs.

I also don't try to match my minimum braking distance at every stop.
I certainly don't do this either. I do however have an uncanny ability to press the brake pedal once, just happening to pick the perfect amount of braking force, and hold that constant force all the way until I stop almost dead nuts at the white line. Whether I'm braking from 25 for 60 I can do this and hardly anybody else can. Again, efficiency and smoothness.

In fact, when I drive normal I shift gears before I hit 3,000 RPM. My full power range is up over 4,500 RPM, but even here I still tend to pull away from the rest of traffic a bit because I do have decent low-end torque. If I am trying to conserve fuel for some reason I have been known to shift before hitting 2,000 RPM.
I dull side effect of rotaries is that carbon buildup is a problem while chugging along at low rpm. On surface streets I normally accelerate with light throttle up to 4000 rpm, then shift smoothly onto the next gear. It's a good compromise between creating enough compression to avoid power-sapping carbon, and shifting before my auxiliary ports open up (think secondary carb jets) that devour fuel for high rpms. My car will never achieve city mileage approaching what I would call good so that's about the best I can do.

To be honest, what bothers me more than the guy driving slow is inconsistent drivers. Some alter their speed during sections of the interstate, going slower than the speed limit in one area and faster in others. Then the squeamish drivers that slow down as they pass trucks and ride beside them for a few miles, only to speed up again after they are past them. And the cell phone driver. They fly by at 80+ only to suddenly start doing 55-60 and when I pass them I see they are on the phone. Then they fly by me again and the phone is gone. I'd rather a single fixed obstacle that I can see how to avoid than a guy that can't decide if he is an obstacle or a projectile. And guys that are always a projectile are problematic too, as not only are they outside the safe speed range but they distract other drivers by intimidating them.
Bingo! You've just described pretty much everything I try to remove from my own driving. Nobody has to be a race car driver to hold a constant speed on the highway. All they have to do it pay attention to something. Anything. If they can't hear their engine then perhaps they could glance at the speedometer occasionally.

Frustration leads me to exaggerate a bit, but when I'm driving I'm always level-headed and forward-thinking. I bitch at people, don't get me wrong, but I don't get riled up. I think we could convoy surprisingly well.
 
I don't think there are any desirable, affordable cars that get 85mpg..

I average 24mpg if I'm being careful, but despite it being a massive drain on my finances, I love my car and I'd hate to have to get rid of it for a econo-hatch...

Agreed 100%, I live in an area where we have pretty much nothing but twisty B-roads.
They are immensly fun to drive if you push it (responsibly), however my diesel runs out of puff at 4000 rpm, just when my petrol Mondeo ST220 starts to get excited.
Yes, diesel is economical, eco-friendly, and it's not dirty, but it's not much fun either.
For those of us that drive in real life, there is something about giving your car a bit of welly that no amount of high def or force feedback can simulate.
Of course, you can have fun in a diesel, but you will have more with petrol.
 
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