950bhp "Bugatti Buster" Porsche planned.

[G.T]

Picture of article from Autocar magazine - can't find anything online about it yet:

Porsche is poised to burst Bugatti's bubble when it rolls out the fastest road car in the world in 2009 - and Autocar can reveal how it will look.This radical supercar is expected to be dubbed GT1, and will be a 950bhp road-legal version of Porsche's future Le Mans challenger. According to insiders, the target top speed is 254mph - a crucial 2mph faster than the claimed top speed of the 987bhp Bugatti Veyron. The core of the new car is the Carrera GT's carbonfibre chassis, fitted with modified nose and tail structures. The interior is also based closely on the Carrera's distinctive dashboard and centre console.This highly accurate exclusive illustraton is drawn entirely from leaked official technical drawings of the car.Sources have also revealed that a full-bore 950bhp engines are under test, as well as work on weight distribution and aerodynamics, both of which will differ from the competition versions of the car.One thing that's not clear at this stage is how the massive slug of power will be delivered. One suggestion is that it would have to come from a turbocharged version of the Carrera GT's V10 engine.However, other motorsports sources say it will be powered by an enlarged, twin-turbo, 5.5-litre version of the Cayenne's V8. In fact, Porsche is already racing a 600bhp, normally aspirated V8 engine in the American Le Mans series with a Penske-perpared RS Spyder, and it's expected to be adopted by Porsche's own European Le Mans racer. Interestingly, Le Mans racers will switch to the closed-coupe format from 2010.

I find it funny how they call it a "Bugatti Buster" when Bugatti have already confirmed a 272mph Veyron is in the works.

 

[Jim Prower]

so what? faster, stronger, better!

 

[TwinTurboJay]

Go Porsche !!!!
Kick that french-made italian supercars ass !

stupid BOO-gati

 

[Dave A]

French made-Italian Sueprcar? Bugatti IS French, not just French made, the company is French. I can see it now all thoes "it's just stupid to have that much power" people will come out of the woodwork and start praising this car, but I'm wondering if AutoCar is simply getting their wires crossed, becuase that picture is the Gemballa Carrera GT which they say will have around 1000bhp, not a Porsche model, but I can't read trhat writing so I'll have to pick up a copy of AutoCar on my way back from the supermarket in a it.

 

[G.T]

French made-Italian Sueprcar? Bugatti IS French, not just French made, the company is French. I can see it now all thoes "it's just stupid to have that much power" people will come out of the woodwork and start praising this car, but I'm wondering if AutoCar is simply getting their wires crossed, becuase that picture is the Gemballa Carrera GT which they say will have around 1000bhp, not a Porsche model, but I can't read trhat writing so I'll have to pick up a copy of AutoCar on my way back from the supermarket in a it.

What I put in quotes IS that article by the way.

 

[Dave A]

I know but I thought you only put part of the article in, but I just noticed the other bit is about the Porsche Panamera.

 

[Jim Prower]

@LFS's first Post

But Etuorre Bugatti (I'm sure I spelled his first name wrong) was an Italian!

Naw, Bugatti's French. But owned by Germans.

So, how do you know what company is in which country anymore? (playing devil's advocate)

 

[Dave A]

Because the business was setup and run from France. If I move over to America and setup a telecoms business over there the business is American, the fact that I'm British wouldn't change that.

 

[TheCracker]

I find it funny how they call it a "Bugatti Buster" when Bugatti have already confirmed a 272mph Veyron is in the works.

I'm pretty sure i've read that they've already shelved that idea.



The only 'Bugatti' thats still French is:

http://www.messier-bugatti.com/sommaire.php3?&lang=en

This is the real Bugatti, this is what Bugatti evolved into after Ettore died - any other Bugatti is no more than badge & name ownership rights. The last incarnation of Bugatti was built in Modena, Italy - So VAG can't even play the continuation card. The new Bugatti is so much more German than anything else.

The rights to call this Rover 25 a BRM doesn't make it a real BRM.

 

[YSSMAN]

I was reading about the car on Leftlane News earlier, and I'm a bit skeptical about the performance of the car. Granted, the Carrera GT was indeed a very fast car, but it barely broke the 200 MPH mark. The article I had read said that it would use many of the parts from the Carrera GT (including it's chassis) to make a new supercar, and it would include the usage of new technologies from the LeMans prototype racers (but what it actually is was not specified).

Can Porsche do it? Probably, but the Bugatti standard is going to be a hard one to beat.

...But as I had said before, I belive several times, it isn't about all of the car's power and looks to make it fast, it is going to come down to, more than anything, the tires that it is riding on. Bugatti uses one-off tires specially designed for high-speed runs, so I'm interested in what Porsche will be doing in that department.

 

[McLaren]

Reminds of Gemballa's Mirage, of which all the rumours of a C. GT owner actually producing one are gone now.

A little researching shows Gemballa offered a Mirage GT package below the Mirage GTR, and that 1 Carrera GT was built into it.

 

[Poverty]

997 GT3 laps the 'ring in 7'43 so what will this car do! Under 7'20 I reckon.


P.S

LOL at that rover BRM thingy. There used to be one round by my way and I used to think, why did that **** modify his front bumper with that god ugly orange thingy. Did he forget to spray it? Now I understand though. Still ugly.

 

[JCE]

I'd say that if anyone can stick it to VAG it would be Porsche...which just bought some more VAG stock. Hmmmm...internal power wars. :sky: And if they do use a turbo'd version of the Carrera GT's engine you can guarantee the noise it will make will be better than anything else including the Zonda.

 

[IMADreamer]

@LFS's first Post

But Etuorre Bugatti (I'm sure I spelled his first name wrong) was an Italian!

Naw, Bugatti's French. But owned by Germans.

So, how do you know what company is in which country anymore? (playing devil's advocate)

Even though you are just playing Devils Advocate I think it's best to not worry about the country and just focus on the car. I don't care what country the Bugatti comes from, it's amazing. I thought it was a once in a lifetime thing and we would never see anything like it again but if this information is true then Porsche is going to try and run it down. Maybe we will see two or three car companies get into a super car speed war which would only back up my theory that this is infact the greatest time ever to be a car guy.

 

[Specialized]

I'm pretty sure i've read that they've already shelved that idea.

Yea i read that too. According to my figures though and forgetting about the troubles they are having with tyres being able to do silly fast speeds the Bugatti Veyron would "only" need 192hp more than it has to acheive 272. I cannot remember where (i think it was evo magazine) but i read a conversation with the engineers of the Veyron and they said taking the cars cd. into account the veryron is capable of hitting 258mph, after that 8bhp extra is required to gain each further 1mph. Interstingly in the same interview the designers said that although the car is quoted at 1001ps (987bhp) the Veyrons engine actually delivers around 1040bhp how true this is i dont think anybody will know untill some brave soul puts their Veyron on a dyno which i cannot see happening for a long time!

Suddenly 272mph doesnt seem so ludicrus. Hell they should just give the car an extra 416 bhp and make the first 300mph road car.

Spec....

 

[Dave A]

I'm sure you meant 258mph there since the Veyron is limited to 252. Yeah the power figure of 987bhp has been reported to be a conservative figure a number of times. You have to remember that the Veyron was limited to 252mph because of the tyres, and they're pretty damn expensive and well researched tyres, I can't see another company just jumping up and saying they'll do faster and suddenly have proper road tyres that can handle such speeds. The only thing would be is that on road tyres the car might not be as fast but the Porsche would fit some special tyres on for top speed runs but that would negate the car from any fastest production car record since it would no longer be stock so to speak and it also would no longer be road legal.

 

[Specialized]

I'm sure you meant 258mph there since the Veyron is limited to 252. Yeah the power figure of 987bhp has been reported to be a conservative figure a number of times. You have to remember that the Veyron was limited to 252mph because of the tyres, and they're pretty damn expensive and well researched tyres, I can't see another company just jumping up and saying they'll do faster and suddenly have proper road tyres that can handle such speeds. The only thing would be is that on road tyres the car might not be as fast but the Porsche would fit some special tyres on for top speed runs but that would negate the car from any fastest production car record since it would no longer be stock so to speak and it also would no longer be road legal.

I certainly did, thanks for the tip 👍

I guess i should also mention that it looks like i have just said "yeah, give it power it will go faster" which is actually true but there would have to be significant aerodynamic changes too to keep the car on the ground etc I just dont know enough about the specifics to even start to say what would have be changed or even how much would be changed

Spec....

 

[Poverty]

I reckon this car could top 258 in theory, put porsche has never been about doing top speed runs. Theyre speciality is handling, and I could see this car topping out at 240mph.

 

[Specialized]

I reckon this car could top 258 in theory, put porsche has never been about doing top speed runs. Theyre speciality is handling, and I could see this car topping out at 240mph.

Well that doesnt really matter. Just because a car can go above 250mph doesnt mean that it cant handle at lower speeds. Porsche will no doubt make the car a fantastic car in the twistys but when your going 250mph i think the last thing on your mind will be moving the steering wheel anywhere other than straight ahead! Ok the car will have to be stable at very high speeds but with todays technology and various "active" adjustable suspension and aerodynamic components the car will be able to set itself up for what ever the task ahead be. I just dont see one of the two factors effecting the each other to a great amount at all.

Remember that porsche are not renound for telling porkie's so if they say they are going to build a car that can do two hundred and whatever mph then if they do actually build it chances are it will hit their target figure right on the head.

Spec....

 

[Dave A]

Look at the Veyron, it still corners brilliantly despite it's power, speed and weight.

 

[Poverty]

Yeah but I dont think porsche want to spend time on making the car stable at 250mph, instead of concentrating on its handling, especially as the faster you go the more stuff it will need to keep it stable, and im sure porsche wnat the car to be light. The veyron is fast, but not 1000hp fast when going around the track. I would expect a veryron to beat a CGT around the ring, but expect a 950 porsche to obliterate the time, and post a similiar figure to its 917 racer.

Porsche want a light powerful well handling car. If they go after 260mph, theyre going to have to make sacrificies in other departments, and seeing as people will hardly ever do top speed runs I dont think its on theyre priority list.

 

[Specialized]

Yeah but I dont think porsche want to spend time on making the car stable at 250mph, instead of concentrating on its handling, especially as the faster you go the more stuff it will need to keep it stable, and im sure porsche wnat the car to be light. The veyron is fast, but not 1000hp fast when going around the track. I would expect a veryron to beat a CGT around the ring, but expect a 950 porsche to obliterate the time, and post a similiar figure to its 917 racer.

Porsche want a light powerful well handling car. If they go after 260mph, theyre going to have to make sacrificies in other departments, and seeing as people will hardly ever do top speed runs I dont think its on theyre priority list.

Ok but still Porsche have still apparently said that they are going to make a car capable of 254mph. Saying this would mean that they are already prepared to make such sacrifices or maybe will go about getting such a high top speed from the car in a different manner. Remember the Veyron is a heavy car due to its massive engine, 4wheel drive system etc. elimitating these factors has already saved them a huge weights saving allowing the car to be nimbler.

Spec....

 

[Dave A]

Yeah but I dont think porsche want to spend time on making the car stable at 250mph, instead of concentrating on its handling, especially as the faster you go the more stuff it will need to keep it stable, and im sure porsche wnat the car to be light. The veyron is fast, but not 1000hp fast when going around the track. I would expect a veryron to beat a CGT around the ring, but expect a 950 porsche to obliterate the time, and post a similiar figure to its 917 racer.

Porsche want a light powerful well handling car. If they go after 260mph, theyre going to have to make sacrificies in other departments, and seeing as people will hardly ever do top speed runs I dont think its on theyre priority list.

How do you know Porsche want to do this or want to do that, the article clearly says what they want to do. I don't think they can achieve a higher top speed than the Veyron, but if they say they want to try they're going to try. And there is not a chance in hell a 950bhp Carrera GT based car will come close to touching a 917 race car on a track, a 917 would pull something along the lines of 6'40 on the ring if it's chassis could take the track. The 956 did a lap in 6'41 in race conditions and has done a lot faster in hot laps. Do you really think a road car would come close. With regards to sacrificces being made, all you need are the tyers, good cooling and great aerodynamics, theres no handling tradeoff needed. And the Veyron is quick for any car, even a 1000bhp car, I would expect a hot lap at the ring to beat the Carrera GT time.

More power doesn't = faster track times all the time, the fastest cars round the TopGear track are a lot less powerfull than the Zonda F, CCX and MC12 they just arn't on the powerboard for some reason which I can't remember since they are still road cars. But when more power is used effectively each extra bhp you add has less effect, for example adding 300bhp to a 300bhp car will reap a bigger difference in performance than adding 300bhp to a 600bhp car.

 

[Onikaze]

If anyone could get a car you could stand to drive day to day down to a 7'00 'Ring lap, I'd bet money on it being Porsche.

I would love to see someone take on the Bugatti with elegance instead of the brute force "throw more rubber and money at it" approach VAG took.

 

[Dave A]

Sure, you only have to look at a few tuned 911's to see how capable Porsches are round the ring, and Porshce tests all thier cars there. But even 7 mins is half a min below what thoes old race cars could achieve, and that's remembering that they're well over 20 years old, the 917 isn't far off 40 but reading a bit more about the 917 I don't think it coped too well at the Ring, it's chassis flexd too much over the bumps, still faster than what this car will do, but certainly not safe, the windscreens kept cracking or so I've read. The 956 has done tremendous lap times of the ring and that's over 20 years old itself.

 

[Onikaze]

The 956/962 cars were amazing.

Compare them to the Porsche Street cars of their day.

Then look at the Porsche Street cars now, I don't think it would be that out of the question.

 

[Dave A]

I do, theres over a minuet between the 956 and the fastest recorded Carrera GT lap and I'm not talking the 6'41 time here, it has recorded much faster times than that, much faster.

 

[Onikaze]

6'11.

I know.

 

[Poverty]

How do you know Porsche want to do this or want to do that, the article clearly says what they want to do. I don't think they can achieve a higher top speed than the Veyron, but if they say they want to try they're going to try. And there is not a chance in hell a 950bhp Carrera GT based car will come close to touching a 917 race car on a track, a 917 would pull something along the lines of 6'40 on the ring if it's chassis could take the track. The 956 did a lap in 6'41 in race conditions and has done a lot faster in hot laps. Do you really think a road car would come close. With regards to sacrificces being made, all you need are the tyers, good cooling and great aerodynamics, theres no handling tradeoff needed. And the Veyron is quick for any car, even a 1000bhp car, I would expect a hot lap at the ring to beat the Carrera GT time.

Sorry I meant the 956 not 917.

As for knocking at the door of 260MPH huge sacrificies will have to be made. The only reason why BMW, MB and Audi, went along with limiting theyre cars to 155mph is because it would save them large amounts of money, and they wouldnt have to sacrifice in the handling and comfort stakes.

More power doesn't = faster track times all the time, the fastest cars round the TopGear track are a lot less powerfull than the Zonda F, CCX and MC12 they just arn't on the powerboard for some reason which I can't remember since they are still road cars. But when more power is used effectively each extra bhp you add has less effect, for example adding 300bhp to a 300bhp car will reap a bigger difference in performance than adding 300bhp to a 600bhp car.

It depends on the course. For example on some tracks the Z06 trounces nearly everything, but then on others it does poorly. A goos standard is a balanced track with highspeed straights and corners, and low speed corners.

They wernt on the board because they wernt road legal? I will give my right arm that this car will top out at around 240mph, maybe just faster than the MACCA F1.

 

[Poverty]

I do, theres over a minuet between the 956 and the fastest recorded Carrera GT lap and I'm not talking the 6'41 time here, it has recorded much faster times than that, much faster.

Gumpert appollo does it in under 7 mins, with 450hp, if porsche are as serious as they sound with this car it shoudnt have a problem beating it, especially as Porsche are considered as the 'ring kings.

Also tell my why the FXX with its near 900hp doesnt get anywhere near 240mph let alone 260? There are serious difficulties, and sacrficies that need to be made to reach that speed, and the 900hp egg' doesnt manage that speed neither, without downforce.



(THIS IS WHERE WE NEED AUTOMERGE!!!)