A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

[shenfrey]

I say under 500, as typically that’s what ‘over 400’ stands for. We are so use to seeing 700, 800, 1000+ cars in GT games, especially mainline series ones such as GT7.

I know GT sport pretty much had its car roster doubled over the course of its life span, so maybe we could eventually see 800 cars. What do you think?

 

[ImaRobot]

Some people are just too spoiled.

 

[NotThePrez]

Car choice > Car count. I'd rather take a smaller number of interesting, unique and varied cars over a larger car roster filled with a bunch of variants that are damn-near indistinguishable from the base model, which tended to be how PD would achieve its large car lists in the past.

 

[shenfrey]

Some people are just too spoiled.

You are 100% correct. PD have spoiled us ; )

 

[ImaRobot]

You are 100% correct. PD have spoiled us ; )

Yeah, don't forget entitled too.

People always bring up the fact that the series had upwards of 1000+ cars at some point but fail to realize that 75-80% of that car list was terribly outdated, ugly, models that just wouldn't make sense to throw into a modern day game. The amount of remodeled HD vehicles that have been put in every iteration since then has been a great endeavor that they've been getting it down amazingly well. The only one other developer that has accomplished such things is T10 with Forza, and I'm glad to see them putting out just as much as it's competitor.

400-500 cars is way more than enough, and if you're disappointed with that then you have wildly unrealistic expectations that don't make sense in reality.

 

[Famine]

We are so use to seeing 700, 800, 1000+ cars in GT games

Mmmm...

It's kinda complicated, but the only games with 700, 800, 1000+ cars didn't have entirely comparable vehicles.

The problem with invoking the car lists of GT5 and GT6 was the most of the cars were simply copy/pasted from GT4 - and in several cases it was pretty awful to count them as separate vehicles.

GT5, due to the global online modes, essentially mashed together all of the various regional variations of GT4's car list into one. That generated a situation where you would have three vehicles with different names as different vehicles even though they were the same - and two of them weren't even real cars.

The one I bring up a lot is the Mazda MX-5, because I'm a massive Mazda nerd. If you played GT4 in Europe you'd have an MX-5. Play in the Americas and you'd have a Miata. Play in Japan/Asia and you'd have the Roadster. That's how Mazda names the car in the different regions, and PD simply renamed the native car (Roadster) for the regionalised games. It didn't particularly matter that there's no such thing as an MX-5 SR Limited, or a Miata SR Limited, because you were simply driving a rebadged Roadster SR Limited.

Along comes GT5, and the three lists get mashed into one, and you get all three cars. Only one is a real car - Roadster SR Limited - but you have two clones of it, tripling the car count for that car. It's far from alone; there's 34 MX-5 models in GT5, and only 12 are actually different, with the other 22 being two clones each of 11 genuine cars. Such was the scale of this cloning that GT5 had 100 more GT4 cars than any one version of GT4 did...

Now of course this was the "standard" car list - literally PS2 models from 2004/5 used in a PS3 game in 2010. You also had around 150 "premium" cars - PS3 models made for a PS3 game. These were much higher quality and had interior views, which the "standard" cars lacked.

So in essence you had 1000 cars split into two tiers, with 250 made for the game over five years, plus more than 800 simply brought in from an older game, at least 12% of which were inappropriate clones.

GT6 was the same deal, but they added about another 100 of the era-appropriate cars (over three years) to go alongside them.

In fact GT4, from 2004/5, was the only game which had 700+ cars that were entirely peers. GT2 of course had just over 600. GT1 and GT3 had about 150 each, which is also the case for GT5's Premiums, GT6's new "Detailed" cars over and above GT5, and Gran Turismo Sport.

If we take Yamauchi's word about GTS's cars being PS5-ready, it means that GT7 will have 250 (or so) more cars at launch than GTS did, or about 90 more than GTS did at the end of its life. That's about ballpark for the series' history.

GT1: 140 PS1 cars
GT2: 650 PS1 cars
GT3: 180 PS2 cars
GT4: 720 PS2 cars
GT5: 820 PS2 cars* + 250 PS3 cars
GT6: 820 PS2 cars* + 350 PS3 cars
GTS: 170 PS4/PS5 cars -> 340 PS4/PS5 cars
GT7: 420 PS4/PS5 cars -> ?

 

[shenfrey]

Yeah, don't forget entitled too.

People always bring up the fact that the series had upwards of 1000+ cars at some point but fail to realize that 75-80% of that car list was terribly outdated, ugly, models that just wouldn't make sense to throw into a modern day game. The amount of remodeled HD vehicles that have been put in every iteration since then has been a great endeavor that they've been getting it down amazingly well. The only one other developer that has accomplished such things is T10 with Forza, and I'm glad to see them putting out just as much as it's competitor.

400-500 cars is way more than enough, and if you're disappointed with that then you have wildly unrealistic expectations that don't make sense in reality.

No no, you were right before. We were spoiled with a huge collection of cars every single game until sport. Even the PSP version had over 800 cars. Can’t wait for the DLC to further add to the 400 car pool, the more the merrier. You can never have enough cars to choose from.

But as you and above posted said, a lot of cars were not up to the same quality as each other. Now we have quality parity, and PD have also down the ability to pump out cars at a pretty fast pace, it’s going to be exciting to see where we end up at the end of GT 7.

 

[MatskiMonk]

If there's a reasonably rapid appearance of of 5-8 car monthly DLC, I'm not going to get too worried about it... though it's unlikely that anything less than 800 cars will ever excite me the way GT used to.

400-500 cars is way more than enough, and if you're disappointed with that then you have wildly unrealistic expectations that don't make sense in reality.

It's enough, granted, to get me to buy the game, and admittedly, there will big big chunks of that list I maybe only use once/twice, or maybe even not at all.. but the more cars there are, the more that are likely to be the ones I, or any individual player will want to use. It's not hard to pick any brand, class or era that doesn't have massive gaps that people would reasonably like to see filled. As a simplified example, for me to get the 5-10 BMW's I think are serious omissions, PD will probably have to add 400 cars, for me to get "more than enough" BMW's, they'd probably have to add double that (like I say, a simplified example, but I'm sure we all have groups of cars we prefer).

... as for that being a wildly unrealistic expectation... Yup, almost definitely. I'd love to know from Kaz why that was so unrealistic though. I'm one of those that would happily pay for DLC if it allowed them to fund that kind of expansion. If they can put 400+ cars out, for £70, why doesn't ~£5 a month for a DLC pack allow them to produce 25-30 cars a month? And that's a genuine question, not an expectation.

 

[ImaRobot]

No no, you were right before. We were spoiled with a huge collection of cars every single game until sport. Even the PSP version had over 800 cars. Can’t wait for the DLC to further add to the 400 car pool, the more the merrier. You can never have enough cars to choose from.

But as you and above posted said, a lot of cars were not up to the same quality as each other. Now we have quality parity, and PD have also down the ability to pump out cars at a pretty fast pace, it’s going to be exciting to see where we end up at the end of GT 7.

Neither is wrong, the entitlement people feel because the game had a lot of ugly models before, expecting them to just magically appear in HD just isn't logical. Things take time, and that's the double-edged sword of having such huge roster that in a period where visual fidelity was drastically lower. 500 cars isn't a small amount at all.

It's enough, granted, to get me to buy the game, and admittedly, there will big big chunks of that list I maybe only use once/twice, or maybe even not at all.. but the more cars there are, the more that are likely to be the ones I, or any individual player will want to use. It's not hard to pick any brand, class or era that doesn't have massive gaps that people would reasonably like to see filled. As a simplified example, for me to get the 5-10 BMW's I think are serious omissions, PD will probably have to add 400 cars, for me to get "more than enough" BMW's, they'd probably have to add double that (like I say, a simplified example, but I'm sure we all have groups of cars we prefer).

... as for that being a wildly unrealistic expectation... Yup, almost definitely. I'd love to know from Kaz why that was so unrealistic though. I'm one of those that would happily pay for DLC if it allowed them to fund that kind of expansion. If they can put 400+ cars out, for £70, why doesn't ~£5 a month for a DLC pack allow them to produce 25-30 cars a month? And that's a genuine question, not an expectation.

You're not wrong, more cars equals more chances for individualism. That doesn't take away from the fact that 500~ cars isn't no where near a small amount, and really shouldn't warrant complaints considering the time constraints for actually modeling new/remade materials. If people are struggling to find what they like with a list of 500~ vehicles and/or they think it's a small amount, than really, there won't be any pleasing people like that and the developers shouldn't try either.

Well the industry time standard for getting these new vehicles in for one. It's very likely isn't about the money, as we've seen them pump more content into GTS than we've ever seen from them, and that was free. Throwing money at them likely wouldn't change that time frame much. As for wondering about 25-30 cars a month, I don't think any game ever has been capable of something of that sort, not even Forza that wildly outsources their work. That's talking about both pre and post-production and I think that's extremely telling of the situation at hand.

 

[kjb]

I am fine with the number of cars if they are all good, high quality cars. If they still had standard cars that would be a different story. But that's not the case so starting out over 400 is good enough

 

[GBalao888]

You have to take note that since the bulk of the cars in previous games were PS2 Standards, Polyphony would actually rebuild the car from scratch rather than work on the existing assets. And given I heard that every car prior to 2006 will need a physical car to be sourced, that's going to take a lot to rebuild everything from GT4.

I'm guessing the "over 400" car target for launch is to get us, the players, looking forward to more cars added through game updates (besides tracks, of course). This is why Polyphony needs to be more aggressive in their post-launch strategy, picking up from how they did it exactly in GT Sport (like say, if we release with around 450 cars, then over the span of around three to four years, we could surpass the car count of GT4 through consistent updates).

Given that Polyphony are outsourcing, this means they could produce more cars at a faster rate. But don't just take my word for it, though, because we don't know how much to an extent they're doing this.

 

[Nismonath5]

Something else to keep in mind is the ongoing Covid situation regarding international travel. Since they need a physical car to do their scans, there's bound to be a heap of hurdles to jump through, regardless of whether they go to the car or the car comes to them.

I imagine it would be much the same situation for tracks, too. Here's just hoping they can make it over to Mid-Field Raceway in time to get it scanned and mapped for GT7!

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

I seem to be in the minority, but I don't care very much about how a vehicle looks in game, I mainly want it to drive well. If the PS2 models could be adapted to the GT7 physics engine then I would be fine with them being added to GT7.

 

[MIE1992]

Uh, was car DLC for GT7 not confirmed by Kaz himself? (And track DLC, too...)

 

[Samus]

I seem to be in the minority, but I don't care very much about how a vehicle looks in game, I mainly want it to drive well. If the PS2 models could be adapted to the GT7 physics engine then I would be fine with them being added to GT7.

It's less about how they look generally and more about how they are inconsistent with the rest of the game.

As in, I could easily go back and play GT4 or any old game without having any issue with the visuals because it's all consistent, but slap PS2 assets alongside PS5 assets and it's going to look ridiculous and disjointed. That only works for fun easter egg type stuff in games.

It's the same in the opposite direction when PC modders stick super detailed assets into old games. It looks weird and off putting. Consistency is king.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I don't mind 400 or so cars at launch.. privided their lots of regular cars in there... but considering the entirety of GT Sport's carswill be there..it doesn't leave much room for regular cars unfortunately.

 

[Com Fox]

I'm happy with it being 400 to 500 cars. That's a lot to get around. Granted a lot will be from GT Sport so Race Cars a many (though I prefer Race Cars do I actually enjoy that).

It's not like Pokémon where you can transfer your collection or not redo the models but still cut the roster anyway. GT7 might have less Cars than GT5 and GT6 but the models are all improved to justify. The only upsetting thing for me is that it means the Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220 (my favourite) chances go from slim to impossible but that's more of a personal complaint that doesn't really go against the game.

I seem to be in the minority, but I don't care very much about how a vehicle looks in game, I mainly want it to drive well. If the PS2 models could be adapted to the GT7 physics engine then I would be fine with them being added to GT7.

I don't mind lesser models myself but if the roster gets cut to get rid of clones or update all models, I don't mind it either. Neats it out.

However one issue I had with the older models is due to outdated licencing, Cars like the Mercedes CLK Touring Car and Audi R8 LMP had their sponsors censored in GT5 and GT6 and that was too jarring for me

 

[Earth]

400 is fine if they all can be heavily customized visually which I think is the case.

I'm far more disappointed by the tracks to be honest. Nothing really new or that stands out. Was hoping the Isle of Man would be there.

 

[z34Slaven]

Personally over 400 is a good thing considering they will probably add more in free DLC / Paid DLC in the future. I'd much rather have one Mazda Miata then over 9000 that I have to scroll through

 

[Imari]

No no, you were right before. We were spoiled with a huge collection of cars every single game until sport.

Lol wut? Were Gran Turismo 1, 3, 5P not games? Or do you just have an incredibly selective memory?

Personally over 400 is a good thing considering they will probably add more in free DLC / Paid DLC in the future. I'd much rather have one Mazda Miata then over 9000 that I have to scroll through

Right, most modern GT games seem to get a hundred or more extra cars through DLC post-launch, many of them for free. If we end up at ~550 by the end of 2024 that seems very reasonable.

 

[SofianeVAG]

I personally would LOVE them to bring all the premium cars from GT5 and GT6 (at least the ones from brands already licensed for GT7) , that alone would bring the car list well over 500 and it's enough (with updates the list could even reach 600 which is a crazy figure for models as detailed as GT ones)

 

[05XR8]

I don't mind 400 or so cars at launch.. privided their lots of regular cars in there... but considering the entirety of GT Sport's carswill be there..it doesn't leave much room for regular cars unfortunately.

GT Sport is about half road and half race cars. There does seem to be room for cars in the MiTo/Demio/Fit class. We’ll have the AE86s and Aquios, plus the kei cars. Not sure if we’d see the old Civic sedans and Ford Ka, but there is room for 10-15 more regular cars.

 

[GBalao888]

Something else to keep in mind is the ongoing Covid situation regarding international travel. Since they need a physical car to do their scans, there's bound to be a heap of hurdles to jump through, regardless of whether they go to the car or the car comes to them.

Like I said, I do remember hearing that this would be the case for cars from 2005 and older.

 

[Liquid]

The Gran Turismo 3 principle indicates that quality over quantity really does matter. At the time, going from 650+ cars in GT2 to about 150 in GT3 was disappointing but the strong legacy of GT3 proves how correct it ultimately was.

 

[snc]

Car choice > Car count. I'd rather take a smaller number of interesting, unique and varied cars over a larger car roster filled with a bunch of variants that are damn-near indistinguishable from the base model, which tended to be how PD would achieve its large car lists in the past.

Agree but problems is choice from what I see is not briliant, where are new cars like ferrari sf90, rimac nevera, aston martin valkyrie, koeniggseg jesko etc ? Edit or not so new now mclaren senna

 

[Famine]

Agree but problems is choice from what I see is not briliant, where are new cars like ferrari sf90, rimac nevera, aston martin valkyrie, koeniggseg jesko etc ?

This sort of thing has never been what Gran Turismo is about, so you're pretty much on a hiding to nothing here.

The Valkyrie might make it into GT7 eventually, and potentially the SF90 simply through the brand already appearing in the game, but I don't see any of the others ever being part of it. Or GT8.

 

[GBalao888]

Agree but problems is choice from what I see is not briliant, where are new cars like ferrari sf90, rimac nevera, aston martin valkyrie, koeniggseg jesko etc ?

Out of the four of them, I see the Ferrari SF90 Stradale and Koenigsegg Jesko having a good chance at being in GT7 (eventually).

 

[ProjectF]

Agree but problems is choice from what I see is not briliant, where are new cars like ferrari sf90, rimac nevera, aston martin valkyrie, koeniggseg jesko etc ?

"Coming Soon"

 

[MadMax97]

Yeah, don't forget entitled too.

People always bring up the fact that the series had upwards of 1000+ cars at some point but fail to realize that 75-80% of that car list was terribly outdated, ugly, models that just wouldn't make sense to throw into a modern day game. The amount of remodeled HD vehicles that have been put in every iteration since then has been a great endeavor that they've been getting it down amazingly well. The only one other developer that has accomplished such things is T10 with Forza, and I'm glad to see them putting out just as much as it's competitor.

400-500 cars is way more than enough, and if you're disappointed with that then you have wildly unrealistic expectations that don't make sense in reality.

Not to mention that with further updates that number could go to 700-800 at end of the game lifespan. 550-600 MINIMUM

 

[warp9engage]

This sort of thing has never been what Gran Turismo is about, so you're pretty much on a hiding to nothing here.

And it's a weakness of the franchise. Something they need to improve on. You don't need to be adding the cars that were announced less than a year ago, because it also take time to build them. But you don't need to be lagging 5 to 7 years behind, as it happens with brands like Ferrari which, at then end of GT Sport's update cycle, only featured cars from 2013 or prior (in the year 2020). They need to work on that.

(...)but I don't see any of the others ever being part of it. Or GT8.

Neither GT7 or GT8? That's a bit extreme. Why do you think this? Simply because the brands haven't featured in a GT title before, means they won't be able to feature within the next decade or so? Sounds like PD's licensing department may need better hands.