A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

[Imari]

I completely agree!

Also to add to your point but making games in this new generation of consoles is a considerable more amount of money that the developers and Sony have to put in to make the game. If Gran Turismo 6 was made in this modern age of the PS4/PS5 era it would be astronomically more expensive considering its 1000+ car list.

I mean, are they still just copying cars from PS2? GT6 only had about as many premiums as GTS has cars now, and a decent chunk of them were from GT5.

Don't be misled by the big numbers, it's awfully easy to hit huge car numbers when you get to copy/paste 800+ cars from the previous generation of hardware. Work that has already been done and paid for by the previous generation of games too, mind. There's nothing to suggest that a game of the GT6 type would be particularly expensive to produce because a huge portion of the content was already made before they started.

To address the point about money more directly, games are more expensive to make now but they're also a much bigger market than they once were. There was a time where Gran Turismo games selling 10+ million units made them some of the highest selling games of all time. Now we have stuff like GTAV selling 150 million copies. 20 million units barely even gets you into the top 50. PS5s are still selling out basically as fast as they can make them. It's a booming industry. If you want to rise to the top then it helps an awful lot if you spend money.

 

[Tornado]

While GT does have duplicates, it's unfair evaluation of GT's car list if people only treat the car list as nothing but duplicates and ignoring the actual contents. GT6 has around 1064 cars without duplicates.

The real car count in Gran Turismo 6

1267 models from my perspective is plainly a bloated number, which has very little meaning. I wanted to find this out in GT5, and the subject has gone off for me in GT6, but considering how much better the tools are now in and out of game, I'm going to try and crack this. This OP will be...

www.gtplanet.net

While an actual objective count could be put on things as it pertains to duplicates of time was taken to fully do the research into the matter, that thread should not be used as any indication that it was done.


15% is probably a good baseline number to go on for any given game, and it's much more concerning that PD has if anything become even more brazen about it after car counts shrank (and after effectively lying about taking steps to improve it).

 

[RetroJohan]

I'm ok with the 400+ cars, first it's not like you are gonna drive all the cars on the first day. And second I like having monthly (or whatever it will be in GT7) cars pack, I feel like there higher chance I will try out the cars than being forgotten by other cars.

That happened with the 90s Supra, before it was a car that I didn't really care about but then when the update came to GTsport I gave it a try, and now I love that car.

 

[05XR8]

Some of the frustration with the list, are those VGTs. However, moving forward, the VGTs are ported over(probably the Lamborghini Lamborghini and Porsche Legend are ports as well). So, PD modelling new cars like the CSLs, Shelby Mustang, 356 Coupe, are upping the variety. As mentioned, if PD are adding DLC in the manor of GTS, still might not be enough for some.

 

[ford capri]

What was fascinating about Gran Turismo, the 2 in particular, was that you could drive cars in production in 1999 for example we take the alfa romeo, the 156 was in production, the gtv, was in production or the fiat, the coupe was in production , the barchetta was in production, and so for the other brands, it was fascinating to be able to drive cars that you could ffind in real dealerships.
with the recent Gran Turismo this charm has been lost
for example in gt sport there is the mto of 2009, where are the giulietta and giulia? fiat only has the 2008 500 lounge in a 2017 game, where are the tipo, the 500x, the panda etc etc?
Unfortunately, with the passing of the years, the carlist already tastes old when the game is released

 

[z34Slaven]

I mean, are they still just copying cars from PS2? GT6 only had about as many premiums as GTS has cars now, and a decent chunk of them were from GT5.

Don't be misled by the big numbers, it's awfully easy to hit huge car numbers when you get to copy/paste 800+ cars from the previous generation of hardware. Work that has already been done and paid for by the previous generation of games too, mind. There's nothing to suggest that a game of the GT6 type would be particularly expensive to produce because a huge portion of the content was already made before they started.

To address the point about money more directly, games are more expensive to make now but they're also a much bigger market than they once were. There was a time where Gran Turismo games selling 10+ million units made them some of the highest selling games of all time. Now we have stuff like GTAV selling 150 million copies. 20 million units barely even gets you into the top 50. PS5s are still selling out basically as fast as they can make them. It's a booming industry. If you want to rise to the top then it helps an awful lot if you spend money.

Oh for sure! No doubt. I completely agree with you. I am very hopeful for GT7. The trailers and teasers have been special and I cannot wait for the game to come out. I think we will all be mostly pleased with this impressive car list and amazing attention to detail.

 

[Guffaluff]

For my parts, I'm happy. It seems like we're getting a good and wide variety of cars, ranging from vintage to modern to racecars to concepts. I was never expecting anywhere close to 4 digit numbers, in my mind I was expecting 450-500, so this is in the ballpark range. Also, with post-release support the car and track roster is bound to grow bigger.

 

[o000o]

I'm ok with the 400+ cars, first it's not like you are gonna drive all the cars on the first day. And second I like having monthly (or whatever it will be in GT7) cars pack, I feel like there higher chance I will try out the cars than being forgotten by other cars.

That happened with the 90s Supra, before it was a car that I didn't really care about but then when the update came to GTsport I gave it a try, and now I love that car.

A player may not drive all the cars, but there are other players than "you" and they can drive different portion of the car list of their preference. Kaz said that every car has their own fans, and I agree, as there are more players than "you", although the execution is misguided in GT5 and GT6 regarding standard cars. I also think at least if you don't drive all the cars, you can still gain some knowledge of the cars; yeah not as immersive as actually driving it, but still something to get.

Some of the frustration with the list, are those VGTs. However, moving forward, the VGTs are ported over(probably the Lamborghini Lamborghini and Porsche Legend are ports as well). So, PD modelling new cars like the CSLs, Shelby Mustang, 356 Coupe, are upping the variety. As mentioned, if PD are adding DLC in the manor of GTS, still might not be enough for some.

Well, the GT7 cover is 2 VGT cars, one of which haven't appeared in previous games. The complaint is also probably about how they're still making VGTs.

What was fascinating about Gran Turismo, the 2 in particular, was that you could drive cars in production in 1999 for example we take the alfa romeo, the 156 was in production, the gtv, was in production or the fiat, the coupe was in production , the barchetta was in production, and so for the other brands, it was fascinating to be able to drive cars that you could ffind in real dealerships.
with the recent Gran Turismo this charm has been lost
for example in gt sport there is the mto of 2009, where are the giulietta and giulia? fiat only has the 2008 500 lounge in a 2017 game, where are the tipo, the 500x, the panda etc etc?
Unfortunately, with the passing of the years, the carlist already tastes old when the game is released

GT2 is simply massive for its time. 650 cars, 27 tracks, Racing Modification for almost every car, high level PS1 graphics, road race & rally, respectable number of varied events (unlike GT1 with tiny amount of event), progressive Arcade, etc. all in PS1 (to the point of 2 discs). The only thing's that lacking is probably cockpit view and proper damage.

For my parts, I'm happy. It seems like we're getting a good and wide variety of cars, ranging from vintage to modern to racecars to concepts. I was never expecting anywhere close to 4 digit numbers, in my mind I was expecting 450-500, so this is in the ballpark range. Also, with post-release support the car and track roster is bound to grow bigger.

Though 420+ is still a lot more than most other racing games, obviously not 4 digits too, but personally I'd think car list that can be considered big (in GT standards) is at least at 600+. PD also outsources now.

 

[dacc10]

The 1000 cars in GT5 are a bit of "fake news". The 200 something premiums took a lot more work to get in the game, than the other 700-ish standard cars. What was ground breaking at the time, was the quality of the premiums. For GT6, some of these had some improvements in their exterior, but not good enough compared to the premiums. PD could have done the same with GTS, porting over all the premium cars from GT6, but they chose not to, as they thought they weren't good enough.

Now, for a reality check, GT has a problem, which is people asking for literally everything. Some people demand every season of each racing series to be added to the game, which not only makes zero sense from a resources perspective, but also renders cars from the previous season, useless (unless they are based on a diferent model, for example Honda HSV-010 and NSX GT500).
Then the other main problem I've spotted: the myth of "normal everyday cars". If in past games, it was possible to have that sort of car, because it was a lot easier and faster to model each car, now it's not, and resources have to be used wisely. A Polo GTI is a good enough "everyday car" with some performance added to it, and so is any other hot hatch in it's class, or any sporty version of a normal car.

 

[JBanton]

I say under 500, as typically that’s what ‘over 400’ stands for. We are so use to seeing 700, 800, 1000+ cars in GT games, especially mainline series ones such as GT7.

I know GT sport pretty much had its car roster doubled over the course of its life span, so maybe we could eventually see 800 cars. What do you think?

I'm not too bothered by it really. I still have my PS3 and the old titles, so if I really feel a hankering for models that aren't in the new title, then I'll go back and play them. The relatively low count doesn't put me off the new title, because the quality of every car model will be noticeably higher in comparison with GT6, I presume

 

[JoaoSilva]

My take on this thread: Gran Turismo 3 was a huge drop off in car count compared to 2, and it didn't have brands that are now a staple in the franchise. It still didn't stop it from being arguably one of the best racing games ever made.

I think more important than sheer numbers, is the proper categorization of car types and not bunching things up together which has been a weak point in the series.

Around 500 is more than enough to start off, and i suspect this game can last the entire PS5 generation if PD give it proper support with more content and updates.

What good did it make for GT5 to have 1000-ish cars if 80% were PS2 models?

 

[JTB10000]

A 162+ car increase starting from the beginning of 2020 (when PD started saving content for GT7)? You're expecting too much from them. They barely managed 100 in the 3 years between GT5 and GT6. How many they've done so far is plenty productive and I'm satisfied personally.

 

[dacc10]

There's hope that outsorcing atleast doubles the amount of cars they can model per year. Also I wouldn't take this last year as the best example for their car modeling rate, as covid almost surely presented some obstacle to the process of modeling cars.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

The 1000 cars in GT5 are a bit of "fake news". The 200 something premiums took a lot more work to get in the game, than the other 700-ish standard cars. What was ground breaking at the time, was the quality of the premiums. For GT6, some of these had some improvements in their exterior, but not good enough compared to the premiums. PD could have done the same with GTS, porting over all the premium cars from GT6, but they chose not to, as they thought they weren't good enough.

This is actually very interesting. Compare to Forza for example which ported a ton of X360 cars (even as DLC!) without much regard for accuracy. I'm sure in Project CARS there were plenty of Shift 2 era models if not Shift 1.

Definitely a risky move from PD. GTS having 10 million or so players despite its slim content was a feat.

 

[Samus]

I'm sure in Project CARS there were plenty of Shift 2 era models if not Shift 1.

Nope, those were all owned by EA. They started from scratch for pCARS.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Nope, those were all owned by EA. They started from scratch for pCARS.

Good to know, thanks.

I know EA owns the sounds too. IIRC the DB9 in NFS Shift used samples from NFS Carbon, and Criterion had used that sound as late as NFSMW 2012.

 

[NotThePrez]

Good to know, thanks.

I know EA owns the sounds too. IIRC the DB9 in NFS Shift used samples from NFS Carbon, and Criterion had used that sound as late as NFSMW 2012.

While not surprising, there's also a few bits of asset-sharing between NFS and Burnout games. I know a few of the cars in Burnout Revenge used some car parts (mostly spoilers, I think) from NFS Most Wanted '05 and Carbon. Both Revenge and Paradise also use a few of the engine sounds from NFS, such as The Revenge Racer from Burnout Paradise using the same sound as the Carrera GT from NFS, and the GT 2400 also from Revenge sounds like the Dodge Viper.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

500 cars are plenty if they are well selected. Back in GT1/2 the garage could only hold 100 cars, and I never felt that was lacking. On the other end of the scale, my Assetto folder currently has 2053 cars (), and they're all cars I liked (otherwise I wouldn't download them), but I ended up only driving each car once or twice. Only a handful of cars I would come back to and drive more than once. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and you get lost in choices.

The main thing is the cars come from different nations, and encompasses old and new. GT has always been Japanese biased (though it has improved in recent times, it's still not as balanced as Forza for example). New cars are also a bit lacking (again unless they're Japanese). For example we only have the 458 Italia in GTS when several models have replaced it since (488, F8 Tributo, SF90 and the latest 296 GTB).

Pointless duplicates are also another bugbear of mine. In GTS we have Audi R18s that only differ by dirt splatters, Clios that only differ by front bumper and M6 GT3s that differ by foglights. Granted, these are easy to model so in terms of development time they don't cost much. But it's a dubious way of artificially inflating the car count, and makes the 500 number feel bigger than it is.

 

[SestoScudo]

The more cars the better but overall we need more tracks.

Dont mind a mix of real and fictional tracks. I mean we have the cars but the tracks so the game does not become repetitive. A track racing game has replayability while at the same time having more tracks keeps it refreshing without it can also become repetitive.

Expected GT7 to hit 600 cars but oh well not going to lose any sleep over it. Overall at least the standards wont be coming back.

 

[zzz_pt]

I don’t mind the number of cars as long as they’re not duplicates of each other and there’s a good balance of old and new.

I’d much rather have 300 cars with a great course maker than 600 with more of less the same tracks as GTS plus a few classic returns. I haven’t lost my hope for the return of the course maker though. It would give so much longevity and repeatability to GT7 it’s not even funny.

 

[Nielsen]

Racing games with 800 cars can feel incomplete if important cars are missing. So far PD appears to have made good choices for the GT7 car list, so the number doesn't worry me. Besides, this is what we can expect from “day one”. It may grow.

 

[Dave A]

Racing games with 800 cars can feel incomplete if important cars are missing. So far PD appears to have made good choices for the GT7 car list, so the number doesn't worry me. Besides, this is what we can expect from “day one”. It may grow.

Absolutely, the car list is just one factor, the track list is another and then there's the immerision, AI and game structure etc.

I've had loads of fun in games with much less content than Gran Turismo games, and I've been bored by games with tonnes of content. It's how it all comes together and how well it's implemented that matters.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

While there's still a fair amount of dupes, GT had them in the past because making a dupe was as easy as changing a texture or moving a bunch of triangles. Today, it's not so easy (even different liveries).

In certain classes, Gran Turismo has pretty much everything needed. Let's take 70s sportscars for example. There's a Countach, a 512 BB, a De Tomaso Pantera, a Corvette C3... That's what GT Legends had. And it was enough. Only thing missing is the Carrera RS, which IMO is not a matter of "if", but "when". I'd also be happy with a Maserati Merak.

On the other hand, the 80s and 90s selection is lacking. GT7 does absolutely need a 959, a Testarossa and an XJ220. When it comes to modern cars, GT's "modern" is still 10 years ago for certain brands. The newest Ferrari in the game is LaFerrari and that's saying something.

If I were Kaz, I'd focus on cars already featured in the franchise, mainly cars no other game has, like the M3 CSL. It's very difficult to keep up with new releases, to the point not even Forza can, although I suspect they're saving a bunch of stuff (like Lambo SVJ/Ferrari SF90/McLaren 765LT) for Motorsport.

Unfortunately, the car roster depends on how much Sony wants to afford. I'm sure Kaz would never had said "no" to Lotus, especially the new ones with Toyota engines and thus a tighter bond to the origins of the franchise, but... here we are.

Still, if it doesn't get to an Atari situation in TDU2 (forced to pick between Ferrari and Lamborghini), GT will be fine.

 

[05XR8]

There was an Espada leak and story by the owner, some time ago. We'll probably see more '70s sports cars.

 

[Reydawg Rey]

I'm more disappointed how GT7 was developed after they were done with GT Sport. 400 cars more or less is fine but my disappointment lies in the idea to basically transfer all the cars from Sport. All the VGT's, knowing PD some with no interiors, homologation cars that could have been scrapped and replaced with newer models, old GT3 and GT4 cars which could have been replaced with newer models, pace cars that could have been dropped as well. IMO all these cars are simply filler to increase the car count. Why not a 50/50 approach: 200 cars from Sport and 200 new cars not in Sport? Bring back old models and new models over time as part of DLC. This would have had my hype level through the roof! The game would have been significantly fresh and new and old players would have been ecstatic IMHO.

PD is so out of touch with the times, it's very frustrating to see another game utilize the same lazy design structure. It didn't work too well with GT6 and I'm tired of seeing all these new trailers with 95% of the same cars from Sport. The only time I get excited is when I actually see a new car not in Sport. Where are the cars from the Sport Survey? Have any of them made an appearance or did PD simply put the survey out for show? PD's marketing trying to hype up the car count is laughable. How can Kaz hype the car count so much knowing that most of the cars are recycled from Sport with a straight face is beyond me?

I can ask why all I want but the truth is the game is close to being done and there is not much I can say or do about the matter and I can vote with my wallet and that is what I'm planning on doing unless PD announce a lot of surprise tracks. IMO cars and tracks are the story of any racing game and I'm tired of the same story!

 

[05XR8]

Not sure we’d get 200, all new to GT, cars in time for March. The car list might be back to the 160-170 range at launch. Think the majority of GT 1->Sport players wouldn’t complain about that? New players, maybe not, but I can see the threads in this place all lit up.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I'm more disappointed how GT7 was developed after they were done with GT Sport. 400 cars more or less is fine but my disappointment lies in the idea to basically transfer all the cars from Sport. All the VGT's, knowing PD some with no interiors, homologation cars that could have been scrapped and replaced with newer models, old GT3 and GT4 cars which could have been replaced with newer models, pace cars that could have been dropped as well. IMO all these cars are simply filler to increase the car count. Why not a 50/50 approach: 200 cars from Sport and 200 new cars not in Sport? Bring back old models and new models over time as part of DLC. This would have had my hype level through the roof! The game would have been significantly fresh and new and old players would have been ecstatic IMHO.

PD is so out of touch with the times, it's very frustrating to see another game utilize the same lazy design structure. It didn't work too well with GT6 and I'm tired of seeing all these new trailers with 95% of the same cars from Sport. The only time I get excited is when I actually see a new car not in Sport. Where are the cars from the Sport Survey? Have any of them made an appearance or did PD simply put the survey out for show? PD's marketing trying to hype up the car count is laughable. How can Kaz hype the car count so much knowing that most of the cars are recycled from Sport with a straight face is beyond me?

I can ask why all I want but the truth is the game is close to being done and there is not much I can say or do about the matter and I can vote with my wallet and that is what I'm planning on doing unless PD announce a lot of surprise tracks. IMO cars and tracks are the story of any racing game and I'm tired of the same story!

We have on Friday a game launching with 500 cars vs the predecessor's 750, the vast majority of them carried over from the old game, and most people won't care, because they're looking forward to the gameplay and the new graphics.

That's just how racing games are. Licensing and modeling takes time and resource management is a thing.

 

[zzz_pt]

We have on Friday a game launching with 500 cars vs the predecessor's 750, the vast majority of them carried over from the old game, and most people won't care, because they're looking forward to the gameplay and the new graphics.

That's just how racing games are. Licensing and modeling takes time and resource management is a thing.

One could argue that with Forza Horizon cars play a lesser role than in Gran Turismo since the world you’ll be exploring is 100% new every game iteration and is also probably the main attraction. It’s a giant (50% bigger than FH4) amusement park where you drive around.

Imagine if GT7 with come out with 100% new tracks plus a 50% increase in number. Of course that’s less attainable because we want real world / classic tracks but you get my point. Fans would go crazy and focus less on car count/carry over.

FH5 doesn’t need new cars as much as GT7 because the world is completely new, and with it comes a lot of new things to do as well.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

One could argue that with Forza Horizon cars play a lesser role than in Gran Turismo since the world you’ll be exploring is 100% new every game iteration and is also probably the main attraction. It’s a giant (50% bigger than FH4) amusement park where you drive around.

Imagine if GT7 with come out with 100% new tracks plus a 50% increase in number. Of course that’s less attainable because we want real world / classic tracks but you get my point. Fans would go crazy and focus less on car count/carry over.

FH5 doesn’t need new cars as much as GT7 because the world is completely new, and with it comes a lot of new things to do as well.

The world may be new but the fundamentals of the game releasing tomorrow are the exact same as 4. And they are the same because the community wants them to be the same.

That being said, a high number of tracks would greatly help GT7 feel fresher.

 

[zzz_pt]

The world may be new but the fundamentals of the game releasing tomorrow are the exact same as 4. And they are the same because the community wants them to be the same.

That being said, a high number of tracks would greatly help GT7 feel fresher.

The fundamentals being the same is a good thing if the game sells well. We’ll talking about franchises here so they will have strong fundamentals. The content is what I’m referring to. FH5’s world is 100% new. Tracks in GT7 are pretty much carried over from GTS. We’ll have dynamic weather and tod which is nice but we don’t know if that will be implemented on all tracks.

What I’m trying to say is GT7 needs more to be seen as a NEW game, just as FH5 is because of the new world you get to explore.