A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

[Strittan]

Agree but problems is choice from what I see is not briliant, where are new cars like ferrari sf90, rimac nevera, aston martin valkyrie, koeniggseg jesko etc ? Edit or not so new now mclaren senna

I don’t even wanna drive those cars in real life, let alone in a game. Sure, they’re fast, but that’s it.

The only modern super car I’d like to have a go in is the GMA T.50. Gordon Murray is the only person in today’s automotive industry who seems to get it.

 

[snc]

I don’t even wanna drive those cars in real life, let alone in a game. Sure, they’re fast, but that’s it.

The only modern super car I’d like to have a go in is the GMA T.50. Gordon Murray is the only person in today’s automotive industry who seems to get it.

I will never have ocassion to drive this cars so it would be cool to at least could do it in gt7 (btw would also add to list new m4)

 

[Imari]

Not to mention that with further updates that number could go to 700-800 at end of the game lifespan. 550-600 MINIMUM

800 would require another five year lifespan before the next game, for them to be pushing out new cars for pretty much the whole time and it would leave them very little room to model extra stuff for GT8. If we're starting with 430 then 550 by end of life is a realistic target, 600 is a likely maximum. 700 is incredibly unlikely and 800 is basically impossible unless Polyphony drastically rework their processes.

Remember, GTS went from 170 to 340 over a period of four years (although the vast majority of them were in by the end of the second year. Being generous and rounding up that's maybe 90 cars a year, assuming they continue a similar rate. No GT game has ever added more than 200 cars as far as I'm aware, so hoping for nearly 400 seems wildly fanciful.

And it's a weakness of the franchise. Something they need to improve on. You don't need to be adding the cars that were announced less than a year ago, because it also take time to build them. But you don't need to be lagging 5 to 7 years behind, as it happens with brands like Ferrari which, at then end of GT Sport's update cycle, only featured cars from 2013 or prior (in the year 2020). They need to work on that.

They could, but Polyphony seems much more interested in historic cars than modern ones. I suspect that the lack of focus on new metal is intentional. If they lean into it I think that's actually fine. There are plenty of games that do the new fancy hypercars, there's not so many that do historic cars outside of a few popular highlights. This could be a niche that Gran Turismo could establish and really make it's own, and it would fit well with the established "collector" and "car encyclopaedia" themes that they've brought up before.

 

[Famine]

And it's a weakness of the franchise. Something they need to improve on. You don't need to be adding the cars that were announced less than a year ago, because it also take time to build them. But you don't need to be lagging 5 to 7 years behind, as it happens with brands like Ferrari which, at then end of GT Sport's update cycle, only featured cars from 2013 or prior (in the year 2020). They need to work on that.

Neither GT7 or GT8? That's a bit extreme. Why do you think this? Simply because the brands haven't featured in a GT title before, means they won't be able to feature within the next decade or so? Sounds like PD's licensing department may need better hands.

It's not a case of lagging behind, but of the cars simply not fitting into what Gran Turismo is about. The GT series has never been about getting the most current hypercars simply for the sake of having them.

The nearest it's come to that was Gran Turismo 5, with the Veyron 16.4, but even that was in among a slew of relatively fast cars and had at that point developed cultural significance (as had the McLaren F1 that joined it).

Go back and have a look at what the most expensive/most powerful/newest production cars in GT1-GT4 were. Just chucking in a Jesko because it's super mega fast, expensive, and rare isn't the GT way.

I can see a case for the Valkyrie, and for the SF90, and both brands are already in GT. I can't see a case other than fast/expensive/rare (which isn't what GT is about) for the Nevera and Jesko, and both brands would require entirely new licensing agreements.

 

[o000o]

I have thoughts like that too, but it seems that it's just similar to Forza. Forza Motorsport 3 was stated as having "over 400 cars" (and later reaching 495), while later Forza Motorsport 4 was stated as having "over 500 cars" (and later reaching 665).

And Forza Motorsport 6, after coming off on 5 (which also reduced the car list for quality like GTS, to around 200. later reaching 325, where GTS reached 336), was stated as having "over 450 cars" (later reaching 594).

Like others said, GT5 and GT6 has huge because of most cars being Standard cars; ported from PS2 with little to no change. GTS to GT7 is similar progression as GT5 to GT6. GT5 had around 200 Premium cars, going to 447 in GT6 (though there's also 152 semi-Premium cars), where GTS had 168 at launch, going to 420+ in GT7.

Car choice > Car count. I'd rather take a smaller number of interesting, unique and varied cars over a larger car roster filled with a bunch of variants that are damn-near indistinguishable from the base model, which tended to be how PD would achieve its large car lists in the past.

While GT does have duplicates, it's unfair evaluation of GT's car list if people only treat the car list as nothing but duplicates and ignoring the actual contents. GT6 has around 1064 cars without duplicates.

The real car count in Gran Turismo 6

1267 models from my perspective is plainly a bloated number, which has very little meaning. I wanted to find this out in GT5, and the subject has gone off for me in GT6, but considering how much better the tools are now in and out of game, I'm going to try and crack this. This OP will be...

www.gtplanet.net

I'm happy with it being 400 to 500 cars. That's a lot to get around. Granted a lot will be from GT Sport so Race Cars a many (though I prefer Race Cars do I actually enjoy that).

It's not like Pokémon where you can transfer your collection or not redo the models but still cut the roster anyway. GT7 might have less Cars than GT5 and GT6 but the models are all improved to justify. The only upsetting thing for me is that it means the Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220 (my favourite) chances go from slim to impossible but that's more of a personal complaint that doesn't really go against the game.

But I'd want real race cars instead of fictional ones, which'd increase knowledge. But I'd want for GT to let you transfer collections, where it's done in the past with Data Transfer.

 

[MIE1992]

"Coming Soon"

Has GT ever really been about including all the latest and greatest models? I've always sort of liked how GT carves out its own identity by including both newer models, iconic older cars, and models we've never really hear about otherwise. And that's before we get into models like the VGTs.

Personally, I'd hope that GT includes more recent models not simply because they're new and popular, but because they might have something interesting going on for them, whether it's something in how they would drive in-game - such a having a DRS system - or being notable within the company's lineup.

My only issue in this regard is that we could use some road-going models of cars that either have a racing version in GTS, or a track-only variant, like the Pagani Zonda, the McLaren P1, the BMW M6, the second-generation Audi R8, or the Volkswagen Beetle (A5).

EDIT: Honestly, I'd love to see more cars that are notable for their design work, like the original Fiat 124 Spider designed by Pininfarina, or the return of the Isuzu Piazza from Giugiaro.

EDIT2: And as I mentioned earlier, there's still the more-or-less confirmation of car DLC. As far as newer models go, I'm really hoping for more McLaren models, like the Senna and Speedtail. We also could use more Alfa Romeo and Hyundai models, too - I'm especially hoping the latter has the Veloster N added to the series sooner than later.

 

[warp9engage]

I don’t even wanna drive those cars in real life, let alone in a game. Sure, they’re fast, but that’s it.

And for me, if the game only featured cars from the 60s, 70s or earlier, I wouldn't want to buy it, as those cars don't interest me, both styling and handling wise.

Thus the importance of variety.

They could, but Polyphony seems much more interested in historic cars than modern ones. I suspect that the lack of focus on new metal is intentional. If they lean into it I think that's actually fine. There are plenty of games that do the new fancy hypercars, there's not so many that do historic cars outside of a few popular highlights. This could be a niche that Gran Turismo could establish and really make it's own, and it would fit well with the established "collector" and "car encyclopaedia" themes that they've brought up before.

Does this mean that a person who gathers recent/current cars can't be called a collector? Isn't a car collector just someone who enjoys gathering all the cars they like, irrespective of the type or age of said cars?

And if you are making a car encyclopedia, why shouldn't attention be given to more recent models as well? Are they not a part of the car world too? Could an encyclopedia that glosses over a part of history be considered complete?

It's not a case of lagging behind, but of the cars simply not fitting into what Gran Turismo is about. The GT series has never been about getting the most current hypercars simply for the sake of having them.

Is this a sentiment of the developers or a personal perspective on what Gran Turismo should be?

Also, I notice that whenever someone starts requesting more recent cars, some people will jump to "they want GT to start adding every new thing that comes out, just because". I don't think that's the case, I think we are trying to say that certain periods of automotive history are getting too much attention, to the detriment of others. We would like to see a more balanced flow of cars, a flow which has improved but still has room for, at least, a bit more improvement.

The nearest it's come to that was Gran Turismo 5, with the Veyron 16.4, but even that was in among a slew of relatively fast cars and had at that point developed cultural significance (as had the McLaren F1 that joined it).

Go back and have a look at what the most expensive/most powerful/newest production cars in GT1-GT4 were. Just chucking in a Jesko because it's super mega fast, expensive, and rare isn't the GT way.

Car culture is very diverse. You can't make a game about car culture, in general, and then neglect certain parts of it. The appreciation for hypercars and more modern machinery is a part of car culture as well, with all kinds of people having quite different tastes in cars. Polyphony can have their preferences for what are their favorite parts of car culture but, if they want to make a game for all the car enthusiasts of the world, then they have to strive towards as much impartiality as they can. Work towards having a nice amount of all corners of car culture.

I can see a case for the Valkyrie, and for the SF90, and both brands are already in GT. I can't see a case other than fast/expensive/rare (which isn't what GT is about) for the Nevera and Jesko, and both brands would require entirely new licensing agreements.

What indications are there that pursuing and acquiring these licenses would be particularly challenging? It seems the largest obstacle is simply not wanting to acquire them.

 

[Daniel55]

Has GT ever really been about including all the latest and greatest models? I've always sort of liked how GT carves out its own identity by including both newer models, iconic older cars, and models we've never really hear about otherwise. And that's before we get into models like the VGTs.

Personally, I'd hope that GT includes more recent models not simply because they're new and popular, but because they might have something interesting going on for them, whether it's something in how they would drive in-game - such a having a DRS system - or being notable within the company's lineup.

My only issue in this regard is that we could use some road-going models of cars that either have a racing version in GTS, or a track-only variant, like the Pagani Zonda, the McLaren P1, the BMW M6, the second-generation Audi R8, or the Volkswagen Beetle (A5).

EDIT: Honestly, I'd love to see more cars that are notable for their design work, like the original Fiat 124 Spider designed by Pininfarina, or the return of the Isuzu Piazza from Giugiaro.

EDIT2: And as I mentioned earlier, there's still the more-or-less confirmation of car DLC. As far as newer models go, I'm really hoping for more McLaren models, like the Senna and Speedtail. We also could use more Alfa Romeo and Hyundai models, too - I'm especially hoping the latter has the Veloster N added to the series sooner than later.

I'm also hoping for more Italian cars. We can already see 2 new Alfas, but I'm hoping for more. Italian cars (the majority) always had an emphasis on sportiness and design, that's why I want as many models as possible.
I also hope they'll update the Museum (history) part of Brands central for more manufacturers.

 

[MIE1992]

I'm also hoping for more Italian cars. We can already see 2 new Alfas, but I'm hoping for more. Italian cars (the majority) always had an emphasis on sportiness and design, that's why I want as many models as possible.
I also hope they'll update the Museum (history) part of Brands central for more manufacturers.

I think there's also some solid potential for more Lancia and Maserati models, too.

 

[paskowitz]

IMO, unique track count is the most important #. As long as the cars are diverse that trial doesn't matter too much. However, laping the same handful of circuits over and over again takes a lot more away from the enjoyment of the game.

 

[dacc10]

I don’t even wanna drive those cars in real life, let alone in a game. Sure, they’re fast, but that’s it.

The only modern super car I’d like to have a go in is the GMA T.50. Gordon Murray is the only person in today’s automotive industry who seems to get it.

This post literaly shows that a "good" car list is entirely based on opinion. So the lower the amount of cars the game has, the more likely there will be players disappointed.

Some players will rather have more race cars than road cars, others the opposite. But in the end, some people will still not be satisfied. That's why, the more cars, the better.

Let's not forget that the car industry is very competitive, originating huge rivalries, between brands and/or their fans. And, for now, we haven't seen any real rivalries represented in the game, except maybe the Evo vs STI. The LaFerrari still misses the P1 and 918, the M4 and RC-F still miss any rival from Mercedes and Audi (and now Alfa Romeo), and the list goes on.

 

[Famine]

Is this a sentiment of the developers

Yes. Yamauchi has spoken about this many times on record, stretching back several years. I don't really have a personal perspective of what GT should be (other than sacking off F1 cars and SuperFormula); I just go by what it is.

I think we are trying to say that certain periods of automotive history are getting too much attention, to the detriment of others. We would like to see a more balanced flow of cars, a flow which has improved but still has room for, at least, a bit more improvement.

Okay, but again, that's not really the aim of GT, and we've seen this in every title over the last 24 years. If you play GT you're not going to get the latest, super-powered, halo, niche machines.


There has been a single exception to this: GT Concept. That featured cars that were so new they weren't even out yet. It was also never sold in North America.

Car culture is very diverse.

Very. GT is a narrow slice of it.

You can't make a game about car culture, in general, and then neglect certain parts of it.

gestures at the entire GT portfolio

Turns out, you can. And they have. And so has everyone else, really; there's never been a title that encompasses all car culture, though I'd posit that Grand Theft Auto gets pretty close to it - at least from a major market point of view - slightly hampered by not having any real cars in it.


Honestly, from Yamauchi's own repeated statements and the entire established history of GT to date, I don't think GT7 will be the game for someone who wants to drive the latest halo cars. Nor will GT8 be. Nor GT9.

Polyphony can have their preferences for what are their favorite parts of car culture but, if they want to make a game for all the car enthusiasts of the world, then they have to strive towards as much impartiality as they can.

Okay, but I'm not aware of that ever having been the aim.

What indications are there that pursuing and acquiring these licenses would be particularly challenging?

None at all - but more licenses is more money. Why chase down a six-figure licensing agreement for a Jesko when you can add a Supra/GR Yaris/GR86 for probably buttons-to-nothing on top of the current agreement and get cars that actually fit with the other stuff in the game?

It seems the largest obstacle is simply not wanting to acquire them.

Probably, yes. And it's pretty likely that the reason they don't want to is because the cars don't fit in the game they're making.

Hence my suspicion that you won't see a Jesko or a Nevera in any GT game ever, but you might see an SF90 and slightly more might see a Valkyrie.


That said, the BAC Mono surprised me; it's not a car I'd have thought fits in anywhere (GTS has the Project 2&4, so maybe that's connected; GT4-6 of course had the Caterham Fireblade and the Suzuki GSX-R/4) and it's not yet a culturally significant machine - though I do personally quite like it.

Which does go to show that you can never discount a car that might have caught Yamauchi's eye for some reason.

 

[ProjectF]

Has GT ever really been about including all the latest and greatest models?

Sorry.. I thought everybody got this GT meme. 🤭

 

[Com Fox]

But I'd want real race cars instead of fictional ones, which'd increase knowledge. But I'd want for GT to let you transfer collections, where it's done in the past with Data Transfer.

Data Transfer hasn't done that since GT3 which didn't even have it. GT4 data transfer only extended to lisences and up to 100,000 credits. Data Transfer for collection has literally only happened once

I don't mind fictional race cars, I actually enjoyed the LM Race Cars of the past and wish they brought back some like the FTO LM Race Car or RX-7 LM Race Car but I think fictional will be restricted to just Vision GTs, Gr. 3 and Gr. 4 fantasy cars which are made out of necessity fir certain manufacturers to compete in the GT Sport championships

 

[Skygrasper550]

We were spoiled with a huge collection of cars every single game until sport.

LOL wut?? Where were you when GT3 came out back then? GT3 had less than 200 cars, which was a lot fewer than GT2's 650+ roster. Everything from GT2 was scrapped because PD wanted to maximize the new PS2 hardware back then, that meant starting from scratch with GT3. And it was the right choice. GT3 looked leaps and bounds better than GT2.

Even the PSP version had over 800 cars.

PD just simply ported assets from GT4 over to the PSP game, hence the huge car count. Didn't have to remake each and every single car model for that.

Did you seriously play every single mainline title in the franchise?

 

[Scaff]

I personally would LOVE them to bring all the premium cars from GT5 and GT6 (at least the ones from brands already licensed for GT7) , that alone would bring the car list well over 500 and it's enough (with updates the list could even reach 600 which is a crazy figure for models as detailed as GT ones)

The issue with that is you rarely get a licence that then allows you to include every model from that brand. The OEMs will, in most cases, attach limits on what they want included and will sometimes set conditions such as if you want halo models you have to include more run of the mill stuff.

 

[Strittan]

And for me, if the game only featured cars from the 60s, 70s or earlier, I wouldn't want to buy it, as those cars don't interest me, both styling and handling wise.

Thus the importance of variety.

Why did you leave out what I said about the T.50? And what’s with the ”Kaz only likes old cars” crap argument that I tend to see everywhere? You’re a fool if you think the car lineup in GT7, or in any other GT for that matter, lacks variety.

 

[sirjim73]

Yes. Yamauchi has spoken about this many times on record, stretching back several years. I don't really have a personal perspective of what GT should be (other than sacking off F1 cars and SuperFormula); I just go by what it is.

Okay, but again, that's not really the aim of GT, and we've seen this in every title over the last 24 years. If you play GT you're not going to get the latest, super-powered, halo, niche machines.


There has been a single exception to this: GT Concept. That featured cars that were so new they weren't even out yet. It was also never sold in North America.

Very. GT is a narrow slice of it.

gestures at the entire GT portfolio

Turns out, you can. And they have. And so has everyone else, really; there's never been a title that encompasses all car culture, though I'd posit that Grand Theft Auto gets pretty close to it - at least from a major market point of view - slightly hampered by not having any real cars in it.


Honestly, from Yamauchi's own repeated statements and the entire established history of GT to date, I don't think GT7 will be the game for someone who wants to drive the latest halo cars. Nor will GT8 be. Nor GT9.

Okay, but I'm not aware of that ever having been the aim.

None at all - but more licenses is more money. Why chase down a six-figure licensing agreement for a Jesko when you can add a Supra/GR Yaris/GR86 for probably buttons-to-nothing on top of the current agreement and get cars that actually fit with the other stuff in the game?

Probably, yes. And it's pretty likely that the reason they don't want to is because the cars don't fit in the game they're making.

Hence my suspicion that you won't see a Jesko or a Nevera in any GT game ever, but you might see an SF90 and slightly more might see a Valkyrie.


That said, the BAC Mono surprised me; it's not a car I'd have thought fits in anywhere (GTS has the Project 2&4, so maybe that's connected; GT4-6 of course had the Caterham Fireblade and the Suzuki GSX-R/4) and it's not yet a culturally significant machine - though I do personally quite like it.

Which does go to show that you can never discount a car that might have caught Yamauchi's eye for some reason.

GT9 confirmed!!!

 

[warp9engage]

Yes. Yamauchi has spoken about this many times on record, stretching back several years. I don't really have a personal perspective of what GT should be (other than sacking off F1 cars and SuperFormula); I just go by what it is.

Very well. I believe you, but I would still like to see, at least some examples, of what he's been saying. With Kazunori Yamauchi, things can be lost in translation or misinterpreted. So I'd, honestly, like to read what he's had to say, because, as far as I recall, I don't remember seeing Yamauchi say he's more averse to recent machinery. Could just be my memory failing though because it's a lot of years of GT.

Okay, but again, that's not really the aim of GT, and we've seen this in every title over the last 24 years. If you play GT you're not going to get the latest, super-powered, halo, niche machines.

Could you consider something, like a Koenigsegg Jesko, a niche car, in the overall context of car culture? Something that is niche tends to have a small fanbase, and tends to be lesser known. I don't think the Jesko fits in either of these statements. It's only niche in terms of who can afford one, but not in who can appreciate one.

I'm not sure if continuing that focus, come hell or high water, is going to keep paying off for GT in the long run.

Very. GT is a narrow slice of it.

Turns out, you can. And they have. And so has everyone else, really; there's never been a title that encompasses all car culture, though I'd posit that Grand Theft Auto gets pretty close to it - at least from a major market point of view - slightly hampered by not having any real cars in it.

Honestly, from Yamauchi's own repeated statements and the entire established history of GT to date, I don't think GT7 will be the game for someone who wants to drive the latest halo cars. Nor will GT8 be. Nor GT9.

Okay, but I'm not aware of that ever having been the aim.

Indeed no game is going to encompass all of car culture. that's obvious, too many little communities. When I talk about being representative of all corners of car culture, it goes without saying that we're talking about those that carry some weight. I don't think appreciation of modern cars is a small corner of the car community that's not worthy of attention. I reiterate, I don't think it's getting ignored, because it isn't. In my opinion, it's just not catered to quite enough.

After re-watching the Starting Line trailer again, and after reading what you wrote above, I really question if GT is false advertising. Is it a game about car culture, or a car culture?

Which does go to show that you can never discount a car that might have caught Yamauchi's eye for some reason.

I don't think I'm onboard with the idea of a car needing to have "caught the eye" of the developer's CEO, or be aligned with his personal tastes, to have a chance of being made available. I know it's his game, technically speaking, but isn't it time to tell him to back off a little? Is the game for him, and those who think like him, or for the car community at large?

Why did you leave out what I said about the T.50? And what’s with the ”Kaz only likes old cars” crap argument that I tend to see everywhere? You’re a fool if you think the car lineup in GT7, or in any other GT for that matter, lacks variety.

Overall, they do not lack variety, but some variety is more noticeable than others.

You would be fine with a list containing no modern cars, other than the T.50. Certainly you can have your tastes, but how can that be called a truly varied list?

I don't like old cars, so I could do entirely without them. You're the opposite. Because there are opposite tastes like these, we need a game with a selection that adequately covers both, since either one of our lists would leave a significant amount of people
alienated. That's the point that I'm trying to make.

 

[Peter.]

Even aside from the flaw in looking at car counts quantitatively instead of qialitatively, GT7's car count is very healthy. GT5 centered a lot of its marketing around its industry leading car count, and as such, it had so much anticipation. That immediately turned into disappointment and harsh criticism when people saw that the car count was full of poorly ported cars that were often duplicates, too, like Famine has explained in vivid detail. Less, high quality models of iconic and culturally relevant cars will have so much more longevity and potency than 'just cause' diversity.

There's a balance to be struck as well, given the strong emphasis on collection. But ask yourself this: was collecting a bunch of pixelated, duplicate cars in GT5 really worth most people's time? Even for the proper enthusiast with time on their hands, do you miss that? A smaller, high quality, well curated roster will pack a lot more punch with the majority of casual fans and longtime players alike (there's a reason GT3 is one of the highest selling and well received video games of all time). And for the colectors among us, 400 plus is plenty. I don't think I've driven 400 different cars across all GT games and I've owned all of them, including PSP.

It's also kind of early to be worried when you consider that GT has long set the standard for the live service, long lifespan model, with constant streams of free content and feature upgrades to games, especially in the form of cars. GT7 will probably be with us for half a decade, at least, and will be the biggest release in the racing game genre since GT5, so expect healthy sales figures. Expect that car count to rise significantly.

 

[ProjectF]

Very well. I believe you, but I would still like to see, at least some examples, of what he's been saying. With Kazunori Yamauchi, things can be lost in translation or misinterpreted. So I'd, honestly, like to read what he's had to say, because, as far as I recall, I don't remember seeing Yamauchi say he's more averse to recent machinery. Could just be my memory failing though because it's a lot of years of GT.

Could you consider something, like a Koenigsegg Jesko, a niche car, in the overall context of car culture? Something that is niche tends to have a small fanbase, and tends to be lesser known. I don't think the Jesko fits in either of these statements. It's only niche in terms of who can afford one, but not in who can appreciate one.

I'm not sure if continuing that focus, come hell or high water, is going to keep paying off for GT in the long run.

Indeed no game is going to encompass all of car culture. that's obvious, too many little communities. When I talk about being representative of all corners of car culture, it goes without saying that we're talking about those that carry some weight. I don't think appreciation of modern cars is a small corner of the car community that's not worthy of attention. I reiterate, I don't think it's getting ignored, because it isn't. In my opinion, it's just not catered to quite enough.

After re-watching the Starting Line trailer again, and after reading what you wrote above, I really question if GT is false advertising. Is it a game about car culture, or a car culture?

I don't think I'm onboard with the idea of a car needing to have "caught the eye" of the developer's CEO, or be aligned with his personal tastes, to have a chance of being made available. I know it's his game, technically speaking, but isn't it time to tell him to back off a little? Is the game for him, and those who think like him, or for the car community at large?

Overall, they do not lack variety, but some variety is more noticeable than others.

You would be fine with a list containing no modern cars, other than the T.50. Certainly you can have your tastes, but how can that be called a truly varied list?

I don't like old cars, so I could do entirely without them. You're the opposite. Because there are opposite tastes like these, we need a game with a selection that adequately covers both, since either one of our lists would leave a significant amount of people
alienated. That's the point that I'm trying to make.

I suggest you just wait GT7 to be officially launched, maybe some are there.

And, maybe something that is not so outstanding in your eyes is the treasure in the hearts of others.

 

[Strittan]

Overall, they do not lack variety, but some variety is more noticeable than others.

You would be fine with a list containing no modern cars, other than the T.50. Certainly you can have your tastes, but how can that be called a truly varied list?

I don't like old cars, so I could do entirely without them. You're the opposite. Because there are opposite tastes like these, we need a game with a selection that adequately covers both, since either one of our lists would leave a significant amount of people
alienated. That's the point that I'm trying to make.

I would appreciate if you stopped telling me what I like and don’t like, because you have no idea, ok?

I like exciting cars, and/or cars with character, period. It doesn’t matter how old or new they are, hence, what I wrote about the T.50.

 

[ImaRobot]

Indeed no game is going to encompass all of car culture. that's obvious, too many little communities. When I talk about being representative of all corners of car culture, it goes without saying that we're talking about those that carry some weight. I don't think appreciation of modern cars is a small corner of the car community that's not worthy of attention. I reiterate, I don't think it's getting ignored, because it isn't. In my opinion, it's just not catered to quite enough.

After re-watching the Starting Line trailer again, and after reading what you wrote above, I really question if GT is false advertising. Is it a game about car culture, or a car culture?

But who decides what is adequate coverage and what isn't? You? There's no way to please everyone, there's always going to be someone disappointed with it so that leaves it up to the developer to cover what they feel like. They've done fairly well in that aspect as well.

It's car culture, just because it doesn't cover every single aspect of every single car culture doesn't take away from that - because like you said, that's impossible.

 

[SofianeVAG]

The issue with that is you rarely get a licence that then allows you to include every model from that brand. The OEMs will, in most cases, attach limits on what they want included and will sometimes set conditions such as if you want halo models you have to include more run of the mill stuff.

I can understand this but I struggle to see why it would be relevant for them in the case of older gen cars... Just a small example: why wouldn't Renault want the Clio III RS to be featured in the game along the Clio IV knowing they even stopped selling it (and the fact it has already happened in the Forza series)?
So in this case it comes down to PD if they want to include the car or not. That alone would increase the car list easily as I think most of the premium cars from GT5/6 fall in this category.
Well, we still don't know if they will include those with updates instead of only releasing updates with newly modeled cars, we'll see and I hope that will be the case

 

[warp9engage]

I suggest you just wait GT7 to be officially launched, maybe some are there.

That's what I'm doing. In fact, I've seen a couple that I've enjoyed already. Like I said, it's not as if they're completely ignoring new metal, it just needs a bit more attention.

And, maybe something that is not so outstanding in your eyes is the treasure in the hearts of others.

Absolutely, which is why I said something like this:

I don't like old cars, so I could do entirely without them. You're the opposite. Because there are opposite tastes like these, we need a game with a selection that adequately covers both, since either one of our lists would leave a significant amount of people alienated. That's the point that I'm trying to make.

So many different tastes in cars, and a game about enjoying cars. We can't focus too heavily on classics and we can't focus too heavily on modern machinery. Both have their places in car culture and both are enjoyed by large swathes of the car community. I feel the balance is getting better but not quite on the spot.

I would appreciate if you stopped telling me what I like and don’t like, because you have no idea, ok?

I like exciting cars, and/or cars with character, period. It doesn’t matter how old or new they are, hence, what I wrote about the T.50.

I apologize, but would appreciate if you toned down the passive-aggressiveness. It's unnecessary.

It was an honest mistake. I missed the 'super' bit in your sentence. Meaning you were talking specifically about modern supercars, rather than modern cars in general.

But who decides what is adequate coverage and what isn't? You? There's no way to please everyone, there's always going to be someone disappointed with it so that leaves it up to the developer to cover what they feel like. They've done fairly well in that aspect as well.

Ultimately, Kazunori Yamauchi decides, he's the leader of Polyphony Digital, who make GT. I think he does a decent job as well, but with some room for improvement. Still we can criticize his choices, both under the banner of subjectivity and, I also think, objectivity. I think, in the case of some types of cars/brands in GT, even if subjectively speaking they appeal to people, it can be said that, in terms of reaching a balanced list, improvements need to be made, objectively speaking. That's what I feel.

 

[ImaRobot]

Ultimately, Kazunori Yamauchi decides, he's the leader of Polyphony Digital, who make GT. I think he does a decent job as well, but with some room for improvement. Still we can criticize his choices, both under the banner of subjectivity and, I also think, objectivity. I think, in the case of some types of cars/brands in GT, even if subjectively speaking they appeal to people, it can be said that, in terms of reaching a balanced list, improvements need to be made, objectively speaking. That's what I feel.

That's the thing, there will be a ton of people on both sides of the field saying that it's to their liking, or it's not to their liking. There will be no way to accommodate that. It's a loosing battle trying to accomplish such a thing, so I think it's fine to continue how they've been doing it. No one has said you're not allowed to criticize it, I very much criticize the list for the lack of vehicles I like too, but it will never detract from the game for me(still waiting on a 2008 FD2 Honda Civic Type-R to reappear!) With 400-500~ other cars to choose from there will always be something else great to find.

 

[05XR8]

GT Sport did start with newer cars. At Beta and before launch, no car was older than 2009. New cars were 2015-2016. The game was supposed to be released 2016. Delayed to 2017 and most cars were up to date, by PD’s standards.

Anyway, Kaz has said he wants to include cars that people new to automobiles will learn to recognise. His offering a history lesson with the older cars. To me, looks like he’s tying some cars together. In the way he’s done in past games and GTS: Mustang road car, Mustang Gr.4, Mustang Gr.3. The Scape with the Hakosuka, R32, R33, R34.

 

[Scaff]

I can understand this but I struggle to see why it would be relevant for them in the case of older gen cars... Just a small example: why wouldn't Renault want the Clio III RS to be featured in the game along the Clio IV knowing they even stopped selling it (and the fact it has already happened in the Forza series)?
So in this case it comes down to PD if they want to include the car or not. That alone would increase the car list easily as I think most of the premium cars from GT5/6 fall in this category.
Well, we still don't know if they will include those with updates instead of only releasing updates with newly modeled cars, we'll see and I hope that will be the case

It totally depends on what the aim of the marketing department is and what they consider the best way of achieving it.

 

[warp9engage]

That's the thing, there will be a ton of people on both sides of the field saying that it's to their liking, or it's not to their liking. There will be no way to accommodate that. It's a loosing battle trying to accomplish such a thing, so I think it's fine to continue how they've been doing it. No one has said you're not allowed to criticize it, I very much criticize the list for the lack of vehicles I like too, but it will never detract from the game for me(still waiting on a 2008 FD2 Honda Civic Type-R to reappear!) With 400-500~ other cars to choose from there will always be something else great to find.

Not really to disagree with you, but more to kind of re-write what you quoted from me because I think it's a bit of a mess.

Imagine a game that wants to celebrate all car culture, in general, and they're making a list of cars for that game. Imagine now that they omit Japanese cars entirely. Subjectively speaking, there are probably people who would be perfectly fine with this, since they just don't like Japanese cars. However, objective speaking, I think anyone would say that removing Japanese culture entirely would make the game incomplete, unacceptable, for what it wants to celebrate.

I don't think GT has done any offense on that level, quite the contrary. But I feel (maybe my numbers are wrong and I'm missing something) that a significant part of car culture, that is related to the appreciation of modern cars, is slightly underrepresented, compared to its peers.

Like you say, there's a great deal of subjectivity involved, when it comes to what is a good car list. But it's not entirely that, there are cases for objectivity in them as well.

 

[z34Slaven]

It's not a case of lagging behind, but of the cars simply not fitting into what Gran Turismo is about. The GT series has never been about getting the most current hypercars simply for the sake of having them.

The nearest it's come to that was Gran Turismo 5, with the Veyron 16.4, but even that was in among a slew of relatively fast cars and had at that point developed cultural significance (as had the McLaren F1 that joined it).

Go back and have a look at what the most expensive/most powerful/newest production cars in GT1-GT4 were. Just chucking in a Jesko because it's super mega fast, expensive, and rare isn't the GT way.

I can see a case for the Valkyrie, and for the SF90, and both brands are already in GT. I can't see a case other than fast/expensive/rare (which isn't what GT is about) for the Nevera and Jesko, and both brands would require entirely new licensing agreements.

I completely agree!

Also to add to your point but making games in this new generation of consoles is a considerable more amount of money that the developers and Sony have to put in to make the game. If Gran Turismo 6 was made in this modern age of the PS4/PS5 era it would be astronomically more expensive considering its 1000+ car list.

To me, remembering playing Gran Turismo 1 when I was younger was learning how a car drives, behaves and understanding how much you can push a car to its limits without crashing and spinning out. It was never about collecting cars to me. Now sure it is nice having all those cars, but to me it was never that important.