A new ranking system for 2006 ?

[Dr_Watson]

And I won't decide anything this year.

all seven days of it we have left eh?

 

[Tedehur]

I have a suggestion to mix both systems : use a gold/silver/bronze classification within each division. In this way it can be used for promotions as Neil suggested.

Here is an example with week 35 :

Division 1 :

1. 0'59.452 - SHigSpeed
2. 0'59.488 - kart.no.38
3. 0'59.641 - icemanshooter23
4. 0'59.678 - hOt604bOi
5. 0'59.749 - jmgyro
6. 0'59.765 - FASJ6418
7. 0'59.837 - MinorShunt
   0'59.971 - mean time
8. 1'00.099 - bbq0801
9. 1'00.330 - shockwaveracing
10. 1'00.808 - jump_ace
11. 1'00.837 - Toffe

Division 2 :

1. 0'59.821 - KLR142
2. 1'00.156 - NielsG
3. 1'00.337 - sjaak68
4. 1'00.986 - ballstothewall
5. 1'01.010 - flat-out
6. 1'01.081 - MisterWeary
   1'01.149 - mean time
7. 1'01.439 - TheCracker
8. 1'01.708 - Androoos
9. 1'02.227 - Drew22
10. 1'02.722 - Casio

Division 3 :

1. 1'01.104 - GTrackd02
2. 1'01.174 - rotbarsch1979
3. 1'01.351 - SimRaceDriver
4. 1'01.364 - bleurabbit7
5. 1'01.709 - TruBoo
6. 1'01.866 - Steve57
7. 1'02.218 - STINGER05
   1'02.538 - mean time
8. 1'02.859 - GT_Fan2005
9. 1'02.938 - peterjford
10. 1'02.988 - mark2080
11. 1'03.314 - Bee
12. 1'04.761 - slikaznricer
13. 1'05.351 - Robster

Gold times could be used to request replays, and 2 or 3 consecutive golds or bronze might well result in a promotion or a demotion.
(For those interested in the math part, I'm using 1x standard deviation from the mean time to determine gold and bronze cut-offs).

 

[Tedehur]

Well Sjaak made some very good points, but actually he's not the first one. But unfortunately the debate has been rather one-sided, and the few posts from us in favor of the unique division system, obviously has drowned in all the other posts.

I didn't forget about your post Niels, where you say that we have a unique system that makes us feel part of a group (division) within a greater group (WRS), but I think that the G/S/B system won't change this point : it will only rename the group.

Other points in favor of keeping the current system are basically :

• I worked hard to get in my div, I would be sorry if divisions had to vanish
• it has always been like this so why change ?

which are both respectable opinions but don't bring much to the debate.

 

[MisterWeary]

G/B/S within divisions...another neat idea. You're a hard working man Cyril and you do a stellar job of running the WRS. I'll be supporting any decision made

 

[MagpieRacer]

FO, that idea you just had of the G/S/B within the divisions is perfect!

I say go for that!👍

 

[MisterWeary]

Quote Cyril:

"Electric....... had just qualified in div 3, and it took him 3 weeks to be promoted to div 2 because he was obviously too fast. With the G/S/B system, he would have been immediately rewarded for his performance, and would have got a Silver podium."


It is obvious that Electric has send in a to low qualifier time and therefore placed in the wrong Div.
For my run with the BMW I ran a week for I send it in.
It seems Cyril found one of the weak points of the present WRS here.
But still not strong enough to change everything for it.
Exceptions shall always occur.

Just one more point...sjaak's comment completely supports a G/S/B system. Results would be mathematically correct every week without exception.

Have a look at Luxy's leaderboard this week, Casio has destroyed Div 2 so far, just like KLR did a couple of week's back, and bigrew appears to be giving div 3 a shake up. I would be interested to hear from both of them if having a "Gold" time would feel more rewarding than a Div 2 win or a "Silver" time as opposed to a Div 3 win. Same with KLR the other week, he made a point of saying it was a one off and not to give him a promotion??? Not sure I understand the reasoning behind this. There are fundamental categorising flaws in the current system that would be eliminated with the new proposal.

Anyway, promise I'll shut up now

Have a great Christmas folks 👍

 

[Tyre King]

Well Done Cyril, nice addaption of my proposal to keep the Div's and use the medals too!

Nice one!

Suggestion would be a 6 week promotion/demotion cycle instead of my original 12wk one. The working out would be the same, 75% golds per 6 week period and up you go, 75% bronze slippy-slidy!

Laters

Neil

 

[Tedehur]

Well Done Cyril, nice addaption of my proposal to keep the Div's and use the medals too!

Nice one!

Suggestion would be a 6 week promotion/demotion cycle instead of my original 12wk one. The working out would be the same, 75% golds per 6 week period and up you go, 75% bronze slippy-slidy!

Laters

Neil

I was thinking at something more flexible : twice in a row 'Gold' and you are promoted, twice in a row 'Bronze' and you are demoted.
That would make the separation between divisions more porous which is one thing I'm aiming at.

 

[Tyre King]

Fair enough, will be fun and flexable.

Plus the instant grat-factor will be there too!

Nice one, again!

Neil

 

[Tedehur]

Here is simulation of this hybrid method on the last 3 weeks.

Week 34

Division 1 :

1. 1'20.451 - MinorShunt
2. 1'20.564 - hOt604bOi
3. 1'20.589 - holl01
4. 1'21.011 - FASJ6418
5. 1'21.061 - jmgyro
6. 1'21.124 - Randymcchickenf
   1'21.233 - mean time
7. 1'21.249 - VTRacing
8. 1'21.310 - SHigSpeed
9. 1'21.357 - VEXD
10. 1'21.534 - Small_Fryz
11. 1'21.699 - bbq0801
12. 1'21.748 - shockwaveracing
13. 1'21.753 - Kent
14. 1'21.808 - jump_ace

Division 2 :

1. 1'21.598 - Smallhorses
2. 1'21.794 - sjaak68
3. 1'21.984 - MisterWeary
4. 1'22.001 - KLR142
5. 1'22.046 - z06fun
6. 1'22.062 - NielsG
   1'22.483 - mean time
7. 1'22.501 - peachyquaver
8. 1'22.632 - jctraduz
9. 1'22.665 - Drew22
10. 1'23.301 - TheCracker
11. 1'23.338 - flat-out
12. 1'23.872 - ballstothewall
13. 1'31.425 - NickBRed5

Division 3 :

1. 1'22.201 - bleurabbit7
2. 1'22.403 - TruBoo
3. 1'22.669 - rotbarsch1979
4. 1'22.752 - GTrackd02
5. 1'23.220 - SimRaceDriver
6. 1'23.774 - GT_Fan2005
7. 1'24.094 - Steve57
   1'24.117 - mean time
8. 1'24.132 - Bee
9. 1'24.756 - peterjford
10. 1'26.154 - Teledriel
11. 1'26.624 - STINGER05
12. 1'26.626 - JIMB

8 racers get 'Bronze' and are subject to demotion :
bbq0801, shockwaveracing, Kent, jump_ace, TheCracker, flat-out, ballstothewall, NickBRed5.
(3 div 3 racers get 'Bronze' too, but they obviously can't be demoted)

3 racers get 'Gold' and are subject to promotion :
Smallhorses, bleurabbit7, TruBoo.
(3 div 1 racers get 'Gold' too, and they can't be promoted either).


Week 35

Division 1 :

1. 0'59.452 - SHigSpeed
2. 0'59.488 - kart.no.38
3. 0'59.641 - icemanshooter23
4. 0'59.678 - hOt604bOi
5. 0'59.749 - jmgyro
6. 0'59.765 - FASJ6418
7. 0'59.837 - MinorShunt
   0'59.971 - mean time
8. 1'00.099 - bbq0801
9. 1'00.330 - shockwaveracing
10. 1'00.808 - jump_ace
11. 1'00.837 - Toffe

Division 2 :

1. 0'59.821 - KLR142
2. 1'00.156 - NielsG
3. 1'00.337 - sjaak68
4. 1'00.986 - ballstothewall
5. 1'01.010 - flat-out
6. 1'01.081 - MisterWeary
   1'10.149 - mean time
7. 1'01.439 - TheCracker
8. 1'01.708 - Androoos
9. 1'02.227 - Drew22
10. 1'02.722 - Casio

Division 3 :

1. 1'01.104 - GTrackd02
2. 1'01.174 - rotbarsch1979
3. 1'01.351 - SimRaceDriver
4. 1'01.364 - bleurabbit7
5. 1'01.709 - TruBoo
6. 1'01.866 - Steve57
7. 1'02.218 - STINGER05
   1'02.304 - mean time
8. 1'02.859 - GT_Fan2005
9. 1'02.938 - peterjford
10. 1'02.988 - mark2080
11. 1'03.314 - Bee
12. 1'04.761 - slikaznricer
13. 1'05.351 - Robster

4 racers get 'Bronze' and are subject to demotion :
jump_ace, Toffe, Drew22, Casio.
Since jump_ace has 2 consecutive 'Bronze', he is demoted to div 2.

4 racers get 'Gold' and are subject to promotion :
KLR142, NielsG, GTrackd02 and rotbarsch1979.


Week 36

Division 1 :

1. 6'16.071 - kart.no.38
2. 6'21.404 - MinorShunt
3. 6'22.134 - FASJ6418
   6'23.549 - mean time
4. 6'25.305 - SHigSpeed
5. 6'25.981 - jmgyro
6. 6'30.400 - shockwaveracing

Division 2 :

1. 6'27.823 - ROB 256R
2. 6'27.975 - DRIVEN -USA-
3. 6'29.947 - jump_ace
4. 6'32.101 - ballstothewall
   6'35.057 - mean time
5. 6'36.213 - MisterWeary
6. 6'37.697 - Casio
7. 6'44.106 - flat-out
8. 6'44.595 - Drew22

Division 3 :

1. 6'34.538 - bigrew
2. 6'40.045 - goixoye
   6'42.001 - mean time
3. 6'45.147 - les3002
4. 6'48.273 - peterjford

3 racers get 'Bronze' and are subject to demotion :
shockwaveracing, flat-out and Drew22.
shockwaveracing and me have already got a 'Bronze' in week 34, but we also had a 'Silver' in week 35, so we are not demoted yet : we need 2 consecutive 'Bronze' for that.

3 racers get 'Gold' and are subject to promotion :
ROB 256R, DRIVEN -USA- and bigrew.


That's just an example, I'm still working on the cut-offs to find a good balance : I want promotion/demotion to be much easier than what it is now, but I don't want to have racers constantly moving from one division to another one.
I'll now work on a simulation over 7 weeks, but it takes time since these virtual promotions/demotions have an influence on the results of the weeks after.

 

[Kent]

Kent stated that D2 and D3 wins are artificial.
So that means "nothing worth".

Another point is the "caste"system.
It will always remain.(Some will always get gold and some will be never able to reach that)
And bragging in your signature about how many golds you have will only emphasize that.

I didn't realize that I had said the wins in other divisions were "worth nothing."
Sorry I said that... I really don't remember doing that.

I do remember saying they were artificial and I suppose you can read that as you wish, but I don't remember saying, or thinking that wins in D2 or 3 are worthless.

Again though, if I said they were worthless I'm sorry about that.

(:headed back to find where I said that: )

Later.

Btw, regarding the "caste system"...
Remember that a caste system is not necessarily the same as a "class system."

One means divisions are set and it takes amazing luck/ work to achieve movement, the other just means the divisions are labeled (although movement may still be difficult).

Edit:
Just as I thought!
I didn't say worthless! (I would never say worthless!)

Also, on one final note that I know people don't like to hear, but it must be said...
Remember, the podiums in D2 and D3 are artificial.

We are all actually racing each other.
There is not some super-human advantage D1 racers have that allows them to naturally and more easily race faster... The only difference between D1 and the other divisions is the fact that D1 usually finishes with a faster time (regardless of why, we are all still racing with the same type of human hands and brains).

We are all humans and that is the most basic level to judge each of us on.

I still feel this way too!

But to re-iterate the point.

This was not to say the division wins for D2 and D3 are worthless.

It is to say that they are created for the sake of recognizing differences in the competition, but do not actually reflect a true overall win or loss.

Think of it in terms of something other than the WRS.
Like Mountain Biking (since I know that).

When you go to a MTN. Bike race you will find that there are several divisions. Pro, amatuer, first timer, clydesdale, etc.

Now, in all actuality, when the day's fastest race is honored with an overall win the Pro will most likely recieve the honor.
Each of the other divisions will recieve credit for winning within their division.

Because there was an overall winner, does that mean the others are worthless? Of course not.

However, when it comes time to say "this person won the race" they will not use the amatuer division winner (assuming his race wasn't faster than the Pro winner).

I don't say this because I place no value on wins from other divisions... I do place value on those wins.
I haven't always been a D1 racer (took me 11 weeks to earn D1 rank).

However, I still consider all of us to be in one competition and one race.
Even though some of us can "out-class" each other, I still see all of us as humans with the same basic means to achieve (assuming none of us suffer from health problems of some kind or another).

So, even though I do value the wins of D2 and D3, I see them as being artificially created simply because in the end, we are all humans and we are all racing the same race.

I enjoy that togetherness and see it as a strength for the WRS.

Likewise, I see the divisions as a strength to the WRS.

And so...

Flat-out,
I think that regardless of what happens in this, we should keep some kind of division system.

I loved this idea from the get-go (I proposed it a year ago and loved it then).

However, even at that time I was forced to acknowledge that some people just don't want to let go of the division system and at the same time, the division system is part of the WRS for better or worse.

My suggestion to you is...
Create the hybrid you've been speaking of. 👍

Obviously destroying the division system would kill the hopes and dreams of too many who value their "rank."
(for me, rank in sig was always so the mod could know your division come time for submissions )

At the same time, having G/S/B is exactly what the game does and exactly what I would love to see.

Plus, the promotions and demotions of the WRS have always been kinda gray and shady.

We've never really come up with standards about how they are done other than, "this guy is getting pretty darn fast and ruling his division"!
(demotions haven't been used since boombexus was around )

We really should have a way to promote and demote racers based on their performances.

At the same time, we should have the division system that racers have come to know and love. 👍

So,
Do you think we can come up with a hybrid that uses the "G/S/B" system as the base of promotions and demotions for the division system?

I would love to see that. 👍

Gold = D1
Silver = D2
Bronze = D3

3 consecutive weeks of finishing in one category = promotion / demotion

That's my opinion (and probably the opinion of many others who have and have not posted) (although I can't be sure of that ).

Think it over. 👍

Sure the results would still look horrible (since it seems we will never get to list them from fastest to slowest).

But atleast this way there is a real system behind the division system itself.

Anyway,
Until next time,
-

PS. I know it would take a monumental effort each week to do the math for a G/S/B system and still post the division based results so don't feel pressured to do both. 👍

I wanted to do the g/s/b for a long time and really badly too, but I had to let go of it.

Maybe you can work it, I can't really say since it is up to you.

Good luck. 👍

Btw, I bet my subjective system would be a whole lot easier since there is no real math involved but as we've seen, "subjective" just will not work.
(although I personally still feel like it would and does work for the wrs... especially since it seems to work quite well for the qualification race).

 

[Dr_Watson]

cyril,

for handling pro/de-motion, wouldn't it better to run the math on the whole field, rather than inter-divisionally?
you can get two bronze d1 times consecutively and still be faster than d2... and i'm not sure that scenario would warrent a demotion.
however, if someone in d1 or d2 got two consecutive overall bronzes, it would be indicative that some lower-mobility may be in order.

 

[Tedehur]

cyril,

for handling pro/de-motion, wouldn't it better to run the math on the whole field, rather than inter-divisionally?
you can get two bronze d1 times consecutively and still be faster than d2... and i'm not sure that scenario would warrent a demotion.
however, if someone in d1 or d2 got two consecutive overall bronzes, it would be indicative that some lower-mobility may be in order.

That's what I've been working on tonight, but it's pretty hard for a D1 to get an overall bronze, and for a D3 to get an overall gold. Much harder than what a promotion requires with the existing (subjective) system.
So I think I'll stick to a G/S/B per division.

Mathematically it might indeed happen that a driver constantly moves from a div to another one because he slower than everyone in the upper div but faster than everyone in the lower div. Yet, I don't think it will ever happen in the facts : times have always overlapped (the fastest in div X is usually faster than the slowest in div X+1, if you see what I mean).

 

[Hugo Boss]

Demotion should only be an issue when someone indicates that he wants to step down one division or when he scores relatively low for at least 4 weeks in a row. When people have little time to race but do want to submit a time for the stats, because of loyalty or whatever reason, it shouldn't be influencing your ranking.

I will go with whatever will be decided, but imo the system is good now. You can't make people look faster than they really are. If drivers beat their rivals in whatever division, they know they did well. A division win or even promotion is a nice motivation for people. If drivers respect other WRS drivers, they will notice a great performance from others and give a compliment. Nothing is more rewarding than to get a compliment from one of the 'GT gods' or even every other respected WRS driver.

But I'll see what it becomes

Merry Christmas all 👍

 

[Jump_Ace]

Demotion should only be an issue when someone indicates that he wants to step down one division or when he scores relatively low for at least 4 weeks in a row. When people have little time to race but do want to submit a time for the stats, because of loyalty or whatever reason, it shouldn't be influencing your ranking.

I will go with whatever will be decided, but imo the system is good now. You can't make people look faster than they really are. If drivers beat their rivals in whatever division, they know they did well. A division win or even promotion is a nice motivation for people. If drivers respect other WRS drivers, they will notice a great performance from others and give a compliment. Nothing is more rewarding than to get a compliment from one of the 'GT gods' or even every other respected WRS driver.

But I'll see what it becomes

Merry Christmas all 👍

Hugo you're my hero man! I totally agree with every word here. I am one of those people currently who is busy but still submits my time to be loyal. I would truly love to have the gold/silver/bronze for each division, but like the current system no demoting or else I won't even try unless the combo looks promising to me for a good shot at placing well, thus not learning all that I can, which IMO is the point of racing; to learn and practice at what you are not good at (or at least one reason). And I would suspect the same from other drivers who are in a similar situation. I have my rivals, mainly Randy, T13R, SHig and Shockwave, well everyone knows who I compete with...lol. But if the majority dont want to adopt the 'hybrid' g/s/b for each div that is fine. Still very about my time put in not getting me anywhere, but life isn't always fair is it?

jump_ace

 

[Tedehur]

Demotion doesn't exist in the facts with the current system, and promotion is always 100% subjective. I would like demotion and promotion to be sort of automated so that difficult decisions are made easier to the steward.
I agree with your point Hugo and Jerome, that a possible demotion shouldn't be a reason not to submit. That would go against the philosophy of the WRS.

I think a solution would be to make promotion easier than demotion.
I mean : as a racer, I'm capable of running mid-div 2 times when I put a decent amount of time in a combo, and I won twice div 2 (back in GT3) when the combo suited me really well.
Yet, since I took over the series I haven't been putting much effort in racing (too busy testing combos) but I tried to submit a time every week, though it was really crap. I was dead last in weeks 30 and 31, didn't submit in week 32 and was dead last again in week 33.
This situation seems pretty unfair to me : I drove constantly slower than many div 3 and yet I'm still div 2.
I would have found fair to have been demoted down to div 3 after week 33 (3rd consecutive bronze).
My time in week 34 would have been a mid div 3, then I would have won week 35 (div 3) and had another mid div 3 ranking in week 36.

And I would need 2 consecutive golds to be promoted again up to div 2. Meanwhile I would be racing with people who run similar times.


Would you think a system where 3 consecutive bronzes = demotion and 2 consecutive golds = promotion would make you not submit when you didn't put much effort ?
A flaw of the current system is that it's pretty hard to be promoted (look at bleurabbit7's results who did really well in div 3 but hasn't been promoted yet), and that's the reason why people who had put a huge effort over several weeks to have a promotion are not willing to change the system or be demoted (both would mean wasting all this effort).
If promotion is made easier, then demotion is not catastrophic anymore.

 

[NielsG]

I like you new concept, Cyril. 👍


For a moment I also was afraid, that the demotions could keep racers away from submitting times. But after thinking myself into that situation, I believe I actually would like it. It would give me more to fight for. Being low-mid-pack in your division can actually get pretty boring after a while.

All in all I think it would put a lot of new energy and dynamics into my racing in the WRS.


The "only" problem I can see right now, is that it'll take a LOT of time to administrate.
Will we ever get the chance to beat the **** out of you again?


Finally I want to thank you for listening to ALL of us. 👍 👍 👍

 

[peterjford]

For now, my only competative goal is to not be the slowest every week. But, someday I would hope that I would be competing for a win. It is likely that eventually I would be competing for a podium position in D3, but I know that realistically I will never be able to compete for a overall podium position. Maybe is a pure G/S/B system I will be just as satisfied to eventually get a gold as I would be to get a D3 podium.

But overall, my competative goal isn't as important as my goal of racing with (almost said against, but that doesn't fit with the non-competative nature of my main goal) other Gran Turismo racers and having new and interesting combos for me to try.

So for me the rankings and divisions are not as important as racing with my fellow WRSers. My only hope is that whatever is decided, everyone continues to race with me here.

 

[MisterWeary]

...My only hope is that whatever is decided, everyone continues to race with me here.

Amen to that!

I don't like seeing people fall away, with 370-odd people registered I just wonder why more people aren't racing. I guess it is holiday season so these few weeks aren't a good indicator but I like having buckets of people in the results, I like having battles with people and seeing other people's individual battles.

 

[Kent]

Just wanted to remind you all that I've been lossing in division 1 for a long time now.

I never get a win, the last one I had was about a full year ago on GT3.

The best I've done is 4th place in the GT4 WRS and that was at my best track (the ring).

To me, putting in effort for "nothing" is the norm and for my racing all I ever get in return (besides satisfaction, fun, friendship, and competition) is a beat down by all the D2 racers who want nothing more than "podiums" and "wins" (and constantly get them because they run D2).

Odd isn't it?

I don't mind.
If I was concerned with running D2 or getting podiums, I would simply re-register with a different Email and User Name.
It would be easy to make it into D2 or D3 since I know the cutoffs.

However, I don't do that.
I'm not concerned about those things.

At the same time though, I would like to get a little credit when I do well (just as I would like to be recognized as a slow racer when the time is right).

So, what do I mean by all that?
I'm not really sure myself.
Read over it and come to your own conclusions. 👍

Just one final word from me,
Flat-out, do what is best for you and the WRS. 👍

Too much work and you will suffer.
Too much change the WRS will suffer (as we have seen just too many who are attached to the rewards of the division system).

In anycase,
Good luck and merry christmas to all!

btw, misterweary and all the others worried about participation compared to the number of people registered...

Don't sweat it. 👍
The GT3 WRS had just as many registered racers and similar participation (if not worse at times).
I've been here since week 1 of the GT3 wrs and that's just how it seems to work.

Trust me.
(if you want, although with the rep I have, I don't expect it )

 

[Jump_Ace]

Well the fact is that if we do allow any sort of demotion, I will be apart of it most of the time as I'm at the bottom tier of D1 and it doesn't look like I'll be moving up the ladder anytime soon. Guess I'd better get used to the fact that I'll probably the one guy who gets promoted and demoted the most being right on the bubble between divisions, but that is alright like I said before I've proven myself. Those other D1 guys are a lot faster than me.

jump_ace

 

[Tedehur]

That's the last point which is worrying me.
I don't want anyone to be too slow for his div and too fast for the upper div.
I'm still working on the cut-offs to prevent this situation, or make promotion twice easier than demotion so that these people are not constantly moving up and down.

I'll post the normal division results for week 37, and then I'll post 3 tentative results using all 3 different systems we discussed here.
Hopefully that'll help us to figure out what's best for the WRS.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I have faith in ya Cyril, I know you'll try and be fair. I'm tryin not to be selfish here u know? I thik it really is better for everyone as a whole.

Jerome

 

[Kent]

Well remember not to put too much faith in any of the new systems when it comes to my name.

My times are so varied that D3 and D1 may be homes for my laps.

No joke to that either.
This week I've put in some time and the best I've seen is 1'06.7.

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I think I have a great idea. An "uber-hybrid" idea perhaps....

I think we should keep the D1 people and maybe some of the upper d2 people in their own G, S, B running and the other half in another G, S, B running. Promotions and demotions ought to be far and few between, the idea being there is accomplishment in being in the d1/d2 league while maintaining the overall competitive spirit. I think there should be little to no thought of being promoted and that it ought to be an honor and a major accomplishment to reach the upper-"half" of the GSB runnings.

Of course, both systems mentioned on page 1 are excellent. I think a hybrid, though "fair", will basically make it hard to fight for any one thing. Anystead you'll either want a gold or a d1 promotion or whatever. It's one or the other, for it's hard to concentrate on both.

I say, test the new theory. If it works stick with it. If it doesn't, maintain your records and go back to the d1, d2, d3 ways.

 

[Casio]

Let me throw up an idea.

Could you do away with all these divisons and whatever, and rank the people by what time they actually get. Just rank people from 1 to whatever based on what time they get that week. example:

1 - Casio 1'00.000 (Hey, I have to win in someway)
2 - hol01 1'00.123 (+0.123)
3 - jump_ace 1'00.456 (+456)
4 - boombexus 1'01.221 (+1.221)
and so on until the end

You could add what division they are in on the end if you really wanted, but in my opinion it really isn't needed. I liked the original idea of scraping the divisions and just have gold silver and bronze.

Being in Division 1, doesn't automatically mean you are any 'faster' then a Division 2 or a Division 3 and vis versa. It just means you have a faster time then most on a more consistant basis. It's not like the game senses you're Division 2 and causes Division 1 to be faster then you, and Division 3 to be slower. A person in Division 3 has exactly the same chance of having the fastest overall time as a person in Division 1.

What usually happens is, a person gets promoted to a higher division, then stays mid pack except from a few rare cases. As shown by the fact in the whole history of WRS (GT4 WRS at least) only 1 or 2, have been promoted from Division 3 to Division 1.

If you scrap the divisions, it puts everyone on an even playing field. At the moment and with this new hybrid system, no disrespect to Division 3, but why someone may still of had the fastest time in D3 and thus got a 'gold', they still maybe be slower then 30 other racers who got no reward what so ever even though they got, in some cases, a substantially faster time.

Do away with the divisions, I think it will make people try harder to get as high as they can. I'm not being cocky or gloating at anything, but for most of the week, I have had the fastest Division 2 splits by some margin. But, instead of just thinking I've got this won and quitting, I have a go everyday to try as get as fast as I possibly can. I don't look at the results and see 'I got a 3rd in Division 2, that's good', I look and see 'I got the 11th time overall, but was only .2 behind 7th, that's good'.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

 

[SHigSpeed]

Well the fact is that if we do allow any sort of demotion, I will be apart of it most of the time as I'm at the bottom tier of D1 and it doesn't look like I'll be moving up the ladder anytime soon. Guess I'd better get used to the fact that I'll probably the one guy who gets promoted and demoted the most being right on the bubble between divisions, but that is alright like I said before I've proven myself. Those other D1 guys are a lot faster than me.

jump_ace

Hey Jerome,

You can be my movin' buddy! I'm sure I'll be right with you in that boat. To tell you the truth, I would've been okay with hanging out in D2 a bit longer. It sure seemed like a fast-track promotion for me, but I have had some flashes of D1 brilliance so given time and the right event, I GUESS I can hang.

Either way, I don't care as long as I have a place to play as I've said before.

Thanks for caring, Cyril!

-SHig

 

[Hugo Boss]

What about a system with groups where you decide who promotes and demotes after each race? On LAN's and with the current GTL on GTRP we succesfully use this system. 6 Fastest drivers drive in the A group. Then 2 B groups of 6 drivers each, 3 C groups with 6 drivers and 4 or more D groups with the remaining drivers.

The nr. 3-6 from the A group demote to B1 and B2, nr's 1&2 from B1 & B2 promote to A. Nr's 3&4 from B group stay in B, 5&6 demote to C. And so on...

Isn't it an idea to 'adopt' this system, but think of a WRS variation for it? Maybe increase the A group, or let the first 4 stay in A instead of the first 2. Motivates people to submit times, because a DNF would mean demotion. On the other hand, it´s easy to promote again. A demotion isn't a big issue then.

The system is very succesful, only downside is that you can finish 3rd in B1 and don't promote, while your time might be faster than the nr2 of group B2. Taken over several races, the system is fair though.

What do you guys/girls think?

 

[somebody]

Howdy!! I haven't raced here for ages but I thought I'd have my 2 cents worth of input.

Although I don't race here anymore, I have been racing in a seperate competion. We had divisions with a promotions system and all seemed to work well there. This may sound a little complicated but bear with me...

Each race the fastest in each division is awarded -1.5% off their time, 2nd in div gets -1.0% sec and 3rd in div gets -0.5% sec. Any racer who does not compete in a race is awarded the slowest time in their division +10%.

At the end of each calendar month all the divisions were recalculated. Every racer's times were averaged out over the last 2 calendar months. The top 30%, by average time, are division 1, the next 40% are div 2, and the lower 30% are div 3 (or A, B, C as we use).

We did have a few close calls with near identical times but the same happens in real life so it was just tough luck.

 

[Tedehur]

Both systems look fine, but they give penalty to drivers who don't race, and that goes against the WRS philosophy of "sit out when you don't fancy the combo, join when you like it, you'll always be welcome and nobody will blame you for your absence".