A new ranking system for 2006 ?

[SHigSpeed]

How's this as a suggestion? Use a "champion's provisional" D1 status. Anyone who has ever taken an overall win gets grandfathered into D1 permanently. Now, I'm only partially being selfish here since I recently won an event, but I think it's clear based on the level of competition here that if someone has the ability to pull off an overall win, that they should be "safe".

At this point, only holl01, hOt6o4bOi, kart.no.38, 3rdgenracerx, veilsidebr, MinorShunt, GTmaniac, and I have won one or more events so eight out of 300+ with immunity after over eight months of competition doesn't seem overly indulgent.

This provision would no doubt make non-overall-winner drivers push that much harder to topple the established drivers week after week and therefore make competition that much more interesting, I'd think.

Hmmm....

-SHig

 

[Kent]

How's this as a suggestion? Use a "champion's provisional" D1 status. Anyone who has ever taken an overall win gets grandfathered into D1 permanently. Now, I'm only partially being selfish here since I recently won an event, but I think it's clear based on the level of competition here that if someone has the ability to pull off an overall win, that they should be "safe".

At this point, only holl01, hOt6o4bOi, kart.no.38, 3rdgenracerx, veilsidebr, MinorShunt, GTmaniac, and I have won one or more events so eight out of 300+ with immunity after over eight months of competition doesn't seem overly indulgent.

This provision would no doubt make non-overall-winner drivers push that much harder to topple the established drivers week after week and therefore make competition that much more interesting, I'd think.

Hmmm....

-SHig

I assume you speak of only the GT4 races in the WRS.

So I must ask,
Would you be alright with me driving in D2?
Or even D3 as that is roughly where my most recent time would have me.

Very interesting idea though for sure. 👍

 

[SHigSpeed]

I assume you speak of only the GT4 races in the WRS.

So I must ask,
Would you be alright with me driving in D2?
Or even D3 as that is roughly where my most recent time would have me.

Very interesting idea though for sure. 👍

I was referring to GT4 WRS as that's the only version that I have experience with. Also, since the physics engine and gameplay is different from 3 to 4, it wouldn't be completely fair to use previous versions of WRS to grant permanent D1 status.

I think that the D3 drivers would probably have reason to complain if you were to be classified down there. D2? Dunno. I know that I feel like some weeks that's where I belong based on the event not suiting my personal driving style or GT mode preference, however I know that I would have a few extra wins and a bunch more podia would I have stayed in D2. Is it wrong to be a multiple winner in a division? I don't necessarily think that's the case, unless of course you are consistently better than mid-pack in the next up division. Based on your time in WRS4, kent, I wouldn't have a problem with you being in D2 as long as you aren't owning the podium. Win a race overall? Welcome forever to D1! :^)

You've submitted 5 races based on my most current database. Had you been in D2 the whole time you would have 3 podia. One win, one second, one third.

Me? I've submitted 36 weeks. Been D1 since week 21. At that time I had two wins in D2, no other podia. Based on my performance since, I would have had 5 more wins (including an overall), 1 second, and 2 thirds in D2 over the 17 races since. Does that warrant having been moved up? Probably.

Considering:
Driver: Wins:
hollO1 12
hOt6o4bOi 12
veilsidebr 7
KLR142 4
Lewie 4
bhawk776 3
Electric....... 3
jumpputt 3
SHigSpeed 3

These are overall wins in division. Many have won in lower divisions and moved up, myself included. hot, holl, and veil have always been D1 and their wins are all overall. Of the lower div drivers, I would stick out like a sore thumb to have 7 so I guess CFM's decision to move me up was warranted.

You, with one winning time, a second, and a third in D2, seem well suited for D2 as of now. Once you get a hang of GT4 or commit more time to it, then who knows. On the other hand, if you look at the percentages, you would have podiumed (word?) in 60% of your starts in D2 so is that fair? That would equate to me in D2 with 21 podium finishes. Might seem excessive...

I think by winning an event, a driver has proven that given time and circumstances, they can beat most if not all others, therefore to be placed in D2 would be an unfair disadvantage to the rest of D2, let alone D3.

So, that poses an interesting problem if you can consider it one... A good D2 driver can somewhat adjust his or her performance to maintain a top D2 position (winning a fair number of events and finishing mid to bottom pack for the rest) and not worry about having to compete with D1 if math ran the game. OTOH, a driver with an uncharacteristically high level of skill at a given track in a given car (say the 'Ring in an Aston) wins on a "fluke", they are now "stuck" in D1 forever. Bad thing? Well, if your goal is to win consistently, yeah, I guess. But otherwise, I'd say not. Sure you'll be mid to lower every week, but you can proudly display WRS D1 Driver in your sig forever.

Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. Just putting my thoughts out there. I'm very proud to have been moved up to D1 and have put in WAY too many hours to achieve this. Would I be upset to be demoted? Probably not too much since it is just a game, however I'm really starting to belive that the "key to the city" after winning is a good way to recognize a driver's skill and relieve them from having to prove themselved week after week.

Anyone against?

-SHig

 

[Jump_Ace]

I would like to state just to be an @$$ that I have 1 win And I see where your goin' with this Scott 👍 💡 One thing, is that we may not be able to have WRS Div. 1 in our sig forever, just until GT5 comes out, as T13R is a good testament to that, he was D1 in GT3, but started out D2 in GT4. But I agree with u Scott, not getting too ancy to just 'promote' someone off a couple quick wins, but I think CYril has it under control; he's proven (to me at least) that he is hell bent on getting the wrs in top condition 👍

Jerome

 

[Hugo Boss]

If hardly anyone drives, it's relatively easier to score an overall win. Quite a lot of people withdraw when settings are involved. Making D1 for overall winners only is not a good idea then. Whether you're in D1, D2 or D3 should be based on multiple results, not on only just one.

The best option might be to select a few possibilities that will cost Flat-Out less time and that we can vote for possibility we like most

 

[SHigSpeed]

If hardly anyone drives, it's relatively easier to score an overall win. Quite a lot of people withdraw when settings are involved. Making D1 for overall winners only is not a good idea then. Whether you're in D1, D2 or D3 should be based on multiple results, not on only just one.

The best option might be to select a few possibilities that will cost Flat-Out less time and that we can vote for possibility we like most

Well, if 8 drivers taking overall wins over 38 events is a demonstration of relatively easy, then I'd hate to see what hard is. Also considering that I beat 3 of the 7 others that had or have since won, it wasn't a gimme. Two of these guys had wins on the previous and following event no less.

I hope you didn't understand my idea as ONLY overall winners being allowed in D1, absolutely not. All drivers that consistently submit times worthy of top 15% or so in D2 or better with regular D2 winning times should be considered for D1. Just if there is a new system where constante pro/de-motions are being given, perhaps the overall winners would be given a special consideration. This can be changed/revoked of course if it ends up being too much of a welfare WRS society, but I though that it'd be a good method of giving recognition if not protecting D2 drivers to their "domain". Also, nobody in any division other than D1 has won outright so far. I don't see that happening either. So, assuming a driver has to be promoted into D1 to begin with by showing regular high quality results, then the winner's provision won't be based on one result. The only exemption to this line of reasoning would be the hotshoe that drives the qualifier fast enough to test into D1 straight away and then wins in short order. Even then, though, it'd be hard to argue that that driver wasn't worthy based on the close competition that we've had up to date. Maybe you'd qualify the provision based on the number of competitors in D1 that they beat, or that they beat a minimum number of previous winners, etc... Just rambling...

Also, I don't think that incorporating this provision would at all increase demands on Cyril to keep things rolling.

I know that I'm a relative newbie to this society so I'll submit this and sit back and watch from now on. I'll stand by whatever Cyril decides on one way or another.

Discuss...

-SHig

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I think we should just test one theory for a few weeks while maintaining the old d1, d2, d3 scores, etc in the background. If the new way works to everyone's satisfaction, well, cool, we got a good way to run this thing now. If not, we just go back to the old way again. I don't think it'd hurt to run with the gold, silver, bronze thing for a few weeks, maybe three or four. If it turns out to be less than hoped for, just go back and put in the old scores and everyone will be back where they should be. It's better to do something than just sit and talk about it. Eventually we're gonna generate so many ideas, we'll feel discouraged from even trying any. I say we go through the proverbial list a few weeks at a time.

 

[MisterWeary]

I think all these hybrid and/or minor changes to the proposed systems is gonna end up being a pain in the butt. I am guessing that the main reason for the suggested change is to ensure some fairness and simplicity in how the final results get displayed, how people are moved and who submits replays.

Fear of moving divisions because you over/under perform doesn't seem like a fair reason to oppose change. Why should anyone deserve to stay in a division? If I got a bronze time in my division twice in a row I would be happy to be relegated...in fact, I think it would be deserved, I think it's on my shoulders to ensure that doesn't happen if I want to stay in my division so bad. If I'm right on the border of two divisions and end up moving all the time then so be it? Why is that such a bad thing?

It seems from the voting that the current division system is going to be stuck with...if Cyril goes with the G/S/B within each div system and it becomes "x consecutive Gold = Promotion" and "x consecutive Bronze = Demotion", the rules are clear, there's no grey area, same with gold times submit replays? Simple...the gold cutoffs are auto generated and the whole thing is automated so Cyril is left with zero subjectivity which I think strengthens the whole competition and it's underlying structure.

 

[Kent]

Well for the record...

The only problems I have with moving division are the problems any of the drivers of the WRS have with my moving position.

Regardless of where I am in the WRS division system, I will always race as if there are no divisions.

1,2,3... All the same to me.

 

[Hugo Boss]

I hope you didn't understand my idea as ONLY overall winners being allowed in D1, absolutely not. All drivers that consistently submit times worthy of top 15% or so in D2 or better with regular D2 winning times should be considered for D1. Just if there is a new system where constante pro/de-motions are being given, perhaps the overall winners would be given a special consideration.

Wouldn't that be the same as it is now? If you regularly submit top 3 times for D2, you'll promote to D1.
If you want to give overall winners a special consideration, you would have to give the same threatment to D2 drivers to prevent them from demoting to D3. This would again result in a lot of work for Flat-Out.

I prefer a system where you need to perform regularly to be in the top division/group. If you don't submit or submit a slower time, you'll demote. If you're fast enough, you'll promote to the top group again within a few races anyway. This results in that more people can 'taste' from the top group, without having to fear that they will end dead last every race in division1 in case they promoted from D2. They simply demote to group 2 again if they're not among let's say the fastest 4 of that group. This would be the same for D3 drivers.

 

[Tedehur]

I still need to read carefully your suggestion, Scott, but looking at the answers that have been posted there is one point I want to stress on :
I don't want anyone to feel compelled to race when they don't have time or don't like the combo : the WRS has always been, still is and will remain an entertainment.
So I will never implement a system where drivers who don't race are punished with a demotion. The motto is : if you don't race, you don't move.

So yes, it can happen that someone races only when he has a high probability of winning, and therefore stays on top of the ranking.
So what ? Racing one race out of ten to remain at the top or racing every race because you enjoy racing with friends are two opposite approaches, both respectable IMO.

 

[Kent]

So yes, it can happen that someone races only when he has a high probability of winning, and therefore stays on top of the ranking.
So what ? Racing one race out of ten to remain at the top or racing every race because you enjoy racing with friends are two opposite approaches, both respectable IMO.

IMO, only one of those approaches is respectable.

If you only race when you have a chance to win then I have little to no respect for you.
Of course, that doesn't mean much coming from me (I imagine, since few care for my respect).

However, that's how I feel.

Only participating when you are assured a good finish is vain.

 

[SHigSpeed]

Wouldn't that be the same as it is now? If you regularly submit top 3 times for D2, you'll promote to D1.
If you want to give overall winners a special consideration, you would have to give the same threatment to D2 drivers to prevent them from demoting to D3. This would again result in a lot of work for Flat-Out.

I prefer a system where you need to perform regularly to be in the top division/group. If you don't submit or submit a slower time, you'll demote. If you're fast enough, you'll promote to the top group again within a few races anyway. This results in that more people can 'taste' from the top group, without having to fear that they will end dead last every race in division1 in case they promoted from D2. They simply demote to group 2 again if they're not among let's say the fastest 4 of that group. This would be the same for D3 drivers.

Hmm... Hadn't considered that one. You bring up a valid point about D2 drivers demoting to D3 and havesting podia, however as cool as it was to win a D2 event for ME, it still wasn't a true "win" because it was somewhat artificial since the cutoff was somewhat arbitrary and luck had something to do with it (the faster D2 drivers all got promoted!).

As for fear of being dead last in every race in D1? If you have the ability to outright win, I don't think that that will be a problem. I had "the fear" myself, and week to week it's a toss-up if I will be inhabiting the inverse podium, but nonetheless I value my D1 classification more than I value D2 wins.

That said, I don't think that I'll really have to worry about demotion to D2 so it probably doesn't matter either way. It'd just look a little odd if a D2 driver who was demoted from D1 were to come back and win an overall.

Sorry to jump back into this...

-SHig

 

[MisterWeary]

I ought to just shut up but I'm bored and I like stats so like I mentioned in this thread, a system based on Shig's idea would be interesting in my opinion, easy to set up (which I've done) and here are screen shots of the Upper, Middle and Lower thirds of the "leaderboard":

 

[Jump_Ace]

I ought to just shut up but I'm bored and I like stats so like I mentioned in this thread, a system based on Shig's idea would be interesting in my opinion, easy to set up (which I've done) and here are screen shots of the Upper, Middle and Lower thirds of the "leaderboard":

Hey! Why is Randy in D1 and I"m in D2? ...j/k. Looks good tho. As for placement, hell I really dont give a rip about where I am come Tuesday, all I care about is becoming faster than I was before. Learning more and more, you can fill up the great lakes with what car knowledge I DON'T have...lol. But I try and atleast give the combo a shot when I can, sometimes I put in an hour sometimes 2. Since my promotion, I feel I've I gained a lot of confidence in my consistent driving and its sure paid off at our local lan parties (Yeah! go GTTIMES.COM!!! WOOT!!!)...*cough, cough* And as for respect, I respect anyone who isn't afraid to lose and can admit when someone else is faster. The one thing I can't stand is an ego. Which is one reason I really respect Curtis, sure he's fast as hell, but when you race against him, he takes no (or VERY few) 'cheapshots' if you will, to take the lead and if he spins out just ahead of you he will wait patiently for you to pass. I pretty much respect anyone who gives 100% honest effort no matter the skill level, because I know when I started playing Gran Turismo, it was pretty UGLY. I remember when I once thought...psshhh....yeah right 5-10 consistent laps without hitting a wall? Impossible!...and here we are, pretty capable of doing just that (BC 5 Qualifying and Nismo 400R race too)

Jerome

 

[MisterWeary]

Hey! Why is Randy in D1 and I"m in D2? lol, no biggie just givin' ya ****. Looks good tho.

Jerome

It' sorted according to the overall percentage and your average dips you into the middle third whereas Randy's keeps him in the top third.

 

[Jump_Ace]

It' sorted according to the overall percentage and your average dips you into the middle third whereas Randy's keeps him in the top third.

Aaahhh....Bummer! O well still good info 👍

Jerome

 

[Casio]

One more thing I'd like to bring up. This will probably sound harsh, but bear with me.

Why are we giving the 'slowest' drivers in the division a bronze? Why not divide into quarters and give the bottom quarter a 'participation' award or something. I mean, seriously, I'm sure we're all old enough to live with the nothing, and it's not likely someone is going to run off crying. I would of had a few of these bottom quarter results in the past few weeks and indeed more since I've been racing. It's not the end of the world.

If you're going to demote people for getting a bronze, they're not going to really going to think, 'Yeah, a bronze, that's pretty good!'. In my opinion, the fastest division time should get gold, and then depending on how close the rest of the division are, award according to that, maybe out of the top 4 - 5.

In the licence tests, if don't get to a certain time, the game doesn't go 'Well...At least you tried, here's a bronze'. Pretty much what will happen is no one will want a bronze, because it means you were one of the slowest in your division. Which is exactly what bronze is, except with a different name.

 

[Tedehur]

Basically you suggest to use a fourth category (in addition to the 3 already existing) so that 'bronze' is still a reward and the rest get nothing. But as you conclude, this 4th category would be ...what bronze is, except with a different name.

The idea is not that people who get a bronze think that they did well. I used gold, silver and bronze, but only to use a classification method that's easily understood worldwide. I guess I could have used 'great, average and poor' instead, or 'yippee, coooool and mmmmhh' or whatever makes sense to you.
People who get a bronze in their division are not supposed to feel rewarded, on the opposite, they should realize that they performed quote poorly that week and try to do better the week after.

The plan was that everybody gets a category and not only the best times.
What should I do with div 3 on the past 2 weeks, when 4 racers only submitted ?
First one gets gold, second silver, third bronze and fourth gets nothing ?
And then the first one is disqualified and we perform a circular permutation ? (ex-winner goes to the end and everyone else moves one step forward).

I'll post week 38 results using the 'nested system' and we'll see if it makes sense, it is brings something new or if it's totally pointless.