A Quantum Leap

[Imari]

What would the financial incentive be for a company to operate like this? What would the purpose be of you even buying or playing the new game if you were able to transfer your completed game data from one to the other thereby completing the new game without even playing it? Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I suppose if all you are interested in is playing online it may be ok, but I think the purpose of the game is to actually play and earn your way through it. Oh, and in the software world, like it or not, you own nothing, it is all licensed.

There's a difference between retaining your garage and licenses and having the game completed from the word go. I only saw the guy mention keeping his cars.

Retaining your garage simply means you keep the cars (and other items I suppose, racing suits, etc.) from the previous game. You still have to play through the whole career mode, but you don't have to grind for cars. You have the cars you like already.

Frankly, the career mode should be fun enough by itself that it shouldn't need the crutch of grinding for cars to stretch it out. And if the grinding for cars is what does it for you, there's nothing stopping people from starting from scratch.

Licenses should probably be in this too. They're largely interchangeable between each game. I'd say make them completely identical each game, and just carry them over. People who want to do them again can, but I suspect a significant number of people would just copy them over and get on with real racing.

It would go a long way to giving GT a continuous feel. "This is my RX7 that I've had since GT3" is kind of cool. And reducing the "I need to do Like the Wind 10 more times so I can afford the car to get into the league that I was just playing last week on GT5".


The financial incentive for PD/Sony is that satisfied customers are customers that spend money. It's only a little thing, but enough little things build up to not selling as many games.

 

[MXH]

GT5 1.01 was a placeholder for GT5 2.1

Can your little brains understand why some of us, especially us who have been there since GT1, are a little frustrated with the direction it is going? You might not care if the game bombs but i do!

I completely understand your concerns. I also share more or less the same thoughts as you do. But at the end of the day, neither of us has a stake in all this, so just - relax. I'm not fond of this ''quantum leap'' into our pockets either (yes, I'm aware of the fact that you don't have to buy the DLC, though, it is still essentially that) and why I'll be doing myself the favor to wait and see how it all actually turns out. Wait for community feedback or for the announcement of a $20 or $30 ''XL Edition'' down the line - if you're a cheap bastard like me.

No need to get all worked up.

 

[Shirrako]

We vote with our wallet.

 

[vrrm]

What would the financial incentive be for a company to operate like this? What would the purpose be of you even buying or playing the new game if you were able to transfer your completed game data from one to the other thereby completing the new game without even playing it? Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I suppose if all you are interested in is playing online it may be ok, but I think the purpose of the game is to actually play and earn your way through it. Oh, and in the software world, like it or not, you own nothing, it is all licensed.

Software developers have been coding to migrate their users personal data and content across new versions and hardware platforms since DOS. It's not a difficult thing and it hasn't stopped us buying new software versions as they come out, indeed, personal data migration tends to keep us pinned to an application e.g. microsoft office, rather than encouraging us to move on.

I'm 67 years old, I got my licence at 17, never needed to get another. I've always loved driving and tuning my cars. If I had to give up my licence and trash my cars every few years I would not do it. Would you? The licence tests in GT were challenging and fun the 1st time, and mildly interesting the 2nd, now they are simply tiresome.

So far GT is the only simulator I use, I know how to do it, just as any long term users does. So why do I cop new licence tests in each new version when, despite the fact that the tests are easy (usually gold them on 1st or 2nd try), I also lose all my cars and tunes. Big problem.

PD says it offers a simulator, yet it treats users not as virtual drivers, but as novices. Children. This may appear to make short term financial sense to PD/Sony, but in the long term I believe it is a strategy that is disrespectful and patronizing of its users.

 

[archie_aileron]

? The licence tests in GT were challenging and fun the 1st time, and mildly interesting the 2nd, now they are simply tiresome.

That's a good point.

Also since we had the EXACT same cars in GT4, I find GT5 a lot less fun and exciting when it comes to collecting cars than GT4. Partly because they are ugly standard models, but also it's from knowing there is almost nothing new to expect in the UCD.

A lot of them were included because they were the newest cars in 2004/2005, but now they are nothing special. Feel like some of them could be excluded and nobody will really miss them.

 

[phil_75]

@vrrm

I too have had every single game but i absolutely love the license tests.

I won't play any of the main game until i have completed all the tests.

The physics change in every version so its a good way to get used to them, thats why it isn't just exactly the same as previous games.
But i suppose there'd be no reason not to be able to pass on them for people who don't want to do it.

It'd be great if the AI actually got better according to what license you have but i suppose AI will be another thing that gets no attention in GT6.

 

[Tenacious D]

A lot of (the Standard cars) were included because they were the newest cars in 2004/2005, but now they are nothing special. Feel like some of them could be excluded and nobody will really miss them.

Oh no. Speak for yourself. I have 1600 Standards in my garage, multiple cars I use as the basis of modification and special paints. A good number of them are very special to me or I wouldn't have so many. And from all the polls done here, roughly half of us want them. And deciding which ones could go usually results in a pretty vigorous debate.

 

[Tornado]

That's not a rebuttal to what he said; nor does a poll having to do with whether the Standard cars in general should stay mean anything in regards to his point that many of the Standard cars aren't particularly noteworthy 10 years after the fact.

 

[ShiftingGears]

That's a good point.

Also since we had the EXACT same cars in GT4, I find GT5 a lot less fun and exciting when it comes to collecting cars than GT4. Partly because they are ugly standard models, but also it's from knowing there is almost nothing new to expect in the UCD.

A lot of them were included because they were the newest cars in 2004/2005, but now they are nothing special. Feel like some of them could be excluded and nobody will really miss them.

Completely agreed.

 

[MeanElf]

...So far GT is the only simulator I use, I know how to do it, just as any long term users does. So why do I cop new licence tests in each new version when, despite the fact that the tests are easy (usually gold them on 1st or 2nd try), I also lose all my cars and tunes. Big problem...

That's a fair point. I seem to remember that GT5 didn't require you to do the license tests to progress though as there were other ways to advance your 'level'. I may have that wrong though but still, it would be a good option to be able to skip for those who don't want to do them.

I personally like them as I get a chance to learn sections of new tracks beforehand.

...Also since we had the EXACT same cars in GT4, I find GT5 a lot less fun and exciting when it comes to collecting cars than GT4...

Forgive the question, but that sounds like you are saying the car list from GT5 is no different from GT4. If so, then I disagree. True that a lot of the GT4 cars were back for GT5 but there have been quite a few new ones too - so not exactly the same.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Forgive the question, but that sounds like you are saying the car list from GT5 is no different from GT4. If so, then I disagree. True that a lot of the GT4 cars were back for GT5 but there have been quite a few new ones too - so not exactly the same.

It definitely was a lot less "new" than previous iterations, a large part of that having to do with the mass migration of untouched cars from GT4. Though it's not only that; the long wait for GT5 meant we had seen some of the new Premiums for years (and that's overlooking the Prologue ones). Heck, the 599 was the big draw of GT's first PS3 outing, and by the time GT5 proper rolled out, that car's swan-song model (the GTO) was out in the wild. Thanks to PD also releasing the full car list before the game's release - which, to my knowledge, was a first for them - there wasn't nearly as many surprises as GT4 or GT2. GT3's lineup was largely revisiting standouts from GT2, but there were a few noteworthy new additions (the Pagani being one), and the whole game was a much more detailed visual feast.

 

[Tenacious D]

That's not a rebuttal to what he said; nor does a poll having to do with whether the Standard cars in general should stay mean anything in regards to his point that many of the Standard cars aren't particularly noteworthy 10 years after the fact.

Yes but Tor, that begs a huge question: what cars are significant? Just the supercars and race cars? Cars only made since 2009 with a few samples here and there? You cannot tell me with straight fonts that if the car list was cut in half, the net wouldn't explode in outrage, because it would. Everyone would have an ox gored.

You aren't going to get agreement on anything as far as whittled down car lists, seriously, so you guys who think some are irrelevant, you really might as well leave that solely to personal opinion.

 

[NCRthree]

I don't get this emotional attachment to the old standard cars myself. I played the heck out of GT3 and 4 and found in GT5, I had no desire to drag out an old standard when there were so many new models to use. Heck I've barely used any Premium R34's or Esprits in GT5 after racking up the miles in the now vintage iterations. Been there done that. I'm still finding Premium cars I've never driven, where the heck do folks find the time to drive 1200 virtual cars? Guess it's a collector geek thing.

I look forward to what's new in a new GT. Personally I didn't find the GT5 DLC a large strain on my finances considering how I value playing GT in my life. GT is a pretty cheap "hobby" compared to any other. But yes, it does smell a bit fishy paying for unreleased content that could be included on release day. GT is playing catch up to lots of other titles, here's one more thing to bring them up to date.

 

[archie_aileron]

Yes but Tor, that begs a huge question: what cars are significant? Just the supercars and race cars? Cars only made since 2009 with a few samples here and there? You cannot tell me with straight fonts that if the car list was cut in half, the net wouldn't explode in outrage, because it would. Everyone would have an ox gored.

You aren't going to get agreement on anything as far as whittled down car lists, seriously, so you guys who think some are irrelevant, you really might as well leave that solely to personal opinion.

That's true. I was thinking PD could decide that. Just don't see why they need to port every single one, apart from trying to get the number or cars as high as possible.

I don't know if too many people would be outraged if something like the 03 Accord or 01 Mazda 6 prototype or the 01 VW Jetta were not ported.

Forgive the question, but that sounds like you are saying the car list from GT5 is no different from GT4. If so, then I disagree. True that a lot of the GT4 cars were back for GT5 but there have been quite a few new ones too - so not exactly the same.

That's true, I'm not saying that. I'm saying most of the new ones were in the NCD, and there were few new cars in the UCD. So the UCD was just a place to get back your GT4 cars.

Just saying the UCD was a bit tired, and I'd like something new.

 

[Tenacious D]

That's true. I was thinking PD could decide that. Just don't see why they need to port every single one, apart from trying to get the number or cars as high as possible.

I don't know if too many people would be outraged if something like the 03 Accord or 01 Mazda 6 prototype or the 01 VW Jetta were not ported.

Hey, I know the sentiment. There are quite a few here who only wanted the Premium cars, and that would have been a rather haphazard and tiny list to me. I HATED the small car list in GT3, while others were just fine with it.

But I'm the wrong one to convince on this, because I'm with the crowd that wants the whole enchilada. I want all the cars from all the Gran Turismos! There was a guy posting about the Volvo wagon, because he owns/owned one, and he wants to see how it sails with the new physics engine. There are quite a number of what are considered insignificant cars by the majority, but someone would post about their car, or the car their dad owns, and how much they look forward to trying it in GT6, and 7 on PS4. And I'm totally with them.

I do think personally that there are cars as you say that just... who cares? Like the WWII Kubelwagen, or whatever it's called. I haven't even touched mine yet, any of the WWI military buckets, because I'm having too much fun with my Standards. Went through the Premiums I wanted to try really quick! But having said that, I wouldn't even cut them out. I want the 1890 era steam mobiles to return, and the Model T.

I cringe whenever I see three or five "dinkmobiles" like the Suzuki 360 cluttering up the Used Dealership. But get rid of them? No, just be patient and do some more races. Besides, I have to think the used lots are going to be much bigger, like we had in GT4, so I anticipate much more variety and less grousing about a lack of cars. Plus, if we get the ability to sell user rides in an Auction House or GT Classifieds, there should be no problemo.

I wish I could hang around here more, GamesCom is just around the corner, literally, and I'm feeling it, baby!

 

[another_jakhole]

Time to Placeholder: Number of posts in a thread before some aspect of the GT6 demo is claimed to be "placeholder".

GT5 1.01 was a placeholder for GT5 2.1

haha Hey, there's someone who understood that I wasn't serious.

And my reply to your placeholder signature was meant to be a jab and a joke (edit - I was mocking you) to the people who keep saying that there's a "placeholder excuse" of some kind. You can't prove it to be wrong and we're only reiterating the information that's been given to us. Considering the information and everything else that lead up to GT5's release (only a minority of people thought it was a total failure, and to note, GT5 was and is continually selling near the top of "the list"), I don't think we've seen anything thus far that suggests GT6 will be in the same situation as GT5, even though it's only been three months since we first started hearing anything definitive about GT6 WHICH is completely unlike how GT5's unbearingly long hype train went on for and started.

You're bringing my signature that specifically refers to the GT6 demo into a discussion about GT5 patches? Good one.



By this logic, you'll never be able to do an analysis because they might sell one more game next week.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to look at the numbers when the sales per week/month/pick-your-period have dropped to a level where they're insubstantial compared to the total number of sales. If GT3 sold 14 millions copies, and they're now selling 10 copies a week I don't see a problem with using the 14 million as a fairly solid number.

Basically, I don't see any evidence that the sales figures for GT3 and GT4 are going to change in any way that would invalidate any conclusions drawn from them. GT5...maybe. But after GT6 comes out I'd again be surprised if GT5 sold enough more copies to invalidate any conclusions drawn from the numbers.

You can disagree with this, statistics are always a bit hand-wavy. Lies, damned lies and statistics, after all. Maybe you think that the difference between 14.3 million and 14.4 million copies changes things. That's fine. But there's not much discussion to be had if everything constantly has to be reanalysed in light of the last month of sales.

PS2 had who knows how many million more sales than the PS3 by the time GT4 came out. GT4 and GT5 both came out four years after their console of play launched, so I'll grant you that. The PS2 had a greater install base being greater than 150 million with the PS3 having sold more than 80 million. Let's see: more than 14 million copies of GT3 sold whilst being bundled with one of the best selling consoles (or is it thee best selling?) to date and GT5 has sold more than 10.6 million copies as of March 2013, so one million more will make it the second best selling GT AFTER GT3 while overtaking GT4. I'm not a genius, but GT3 "ONLY" sold an eleventh of PS2's sold while GT5 has sold an eighth of the number of PS3's sold. PS2 launched in 2000 with GT3 releasing the next year; PS3 launch in 2006 with GT5 releasing four years later

Wait a second, am I using the kind of logic you tried to use against mine except I'm doing it...better? Who are the people who think the GT series is declining in popularity? Let's be fair, it's not like GT3 was contending with any game like the GT series is now with the likes of Forza on the Xbox (it's pertinent to this discussion seeing as how there are many who left the more widely known/bought and prominent Gran Turismo for it) and soon to come Project CARS. So yea, if only we don't take into account other games that are taking away from GT's sales...I'm joking around!

Seeing as how Sony stopped the production of the PS2 at the start of 2013 and the PS3 will easily be sold for at least another four years seeing as how PS2 sold for longer than 12 years. Am I defying logic by saying and agreeing with others that GT5 WILL (edit - I wrongly typed "won't" instead of "will") be the second best selling GT? It overtook GT2 (9.3 million) a while ago and likely has overtaken GT1 (10.8 million) by now since the numbers were posted five months ago.

Pretty much throughout all of last year, the average GT5 copies sold per week was around 20,000. It's around less than 10,000 give or take right now.

 

[Hayden]

There are quite a number of what are considered insignificant cars by the majority, but someone would post about their car, or the car their dad owns, and how much they look forward to trying it in GT6, and 7 on PS4. And I'm totally with them.

This 👍

Only three cars were cut from GTPSP to GT5, the BMW M5 Concept '05 (replaced with production model) and the FPV F6 & GT. I know i speak for a lot of people when i say that losing those two cars was a massive disappointment. The same reaction would happen to someone, somewhere for every insignificant car that was cut.

So i say leave them all there, keep throwing new models and missing classics at us and just let the game grow into an encyclopaedia of car history. Nothing feels cooler than seeing a weird, everyday car from a strange land in the UCD and making it into something special.

 

[Tornado]

Yes but Tor, that begs a huge question: what cars are significant?

Cars that are newer than the 1998-2004 and (predominantly, but not exclusively) Japanese that make up the largest glut of GT5's car list are considerably more significant regardless of whether people like the ones currently there or not. Some of those cars in GT5 have been completely redesigned/replaced twice (some of them even thrice), but they have no representation beyond the same cars that they had in the original Gran Turismo or GT2; and sooner rather than later PD is going to have to decide whether it is more worth their time and resources to chase after perfectly modeling a 1998 Subaru Legacy sedan as a Premium car, or to create the newest iteration of the car that Subaru themselves would almost certainly prefer to see in a game releasing in 2013 because it is relevant today.

 

[Tenacious D]

(Tenacious D-level wall of text) ...I'm joking around!

Okay jokehole.

Needless to say, I agree with just about everything he said. I would single out one thing for comment.

Considering the information and everything else that lead up to GT5's release (only a minority of people thought it was a total failure, and to note, GT5 was and is continually selling near the top of "the list"), I don't think we've seen anything thus far that suggests GT6 will be in the same situation as GT5, even though it's only been three months since we first started hearing anything definitive about GT6 WHICH is completely unlike how GT5's unbearingly long hype train went on for and started.

To borrow a phrase from Slipztreme and twist it to suit my nefarious purposes, I chalk this up to "wishful doubting." Whether it's from fear or some grudge they harbor against Kaz and PD, they have a deep seated inability to grant GT6 the potential to be a good game, at the very least, a little better than GT5, considering the good aspects revealed so far. As well as promised features to come. It is pretty clear that many of us want GT9 on PS3 this Christmas, not just GT6, and I'm as guilty of the others in my enthusiasm for a fully loaded Gran Turismo. But it is strange to me that the potential in a fully tweaked and refined game engine can be so great, and yet people are just sure as tomorrow is a banana that GT6 will somehow be even worse than GT5. /snarky humor, narf

DLC is another sore point for some, to which they immediately pounce on the notion that content will be deliberately held back in order to fulfill the promises made, and they cling to it with kung fu grip. Based on anything solid? No, just their own conclusion, and because they made it, it must be true. Or something.

Like many, I won't care because it will likely mean classic cars and tracks from past Gran Turismos, as well as new offerings, so my debit card will be used routinely at the PSN Store.

As for your argument about how "dreadfully" (sarcasm) GT5 has sold in respect to other Gran Turismos, I have to say that I understood the essence of how true that was just from juggling numbers in my head - I am a glorified accountant/tax bureaucrat in my day job after all. But you did a lawyerly job showing that Imari is trying to make a case that just isn't there. When the attach rate of GT5 per PS3 ratio is that high, and the numbers are well beyond "incredibly successful" levels, it really should be self evident. But you removed all doubt by the numbers. Well, hopefully anyhow.

(slightly more tidy bunch of text)

Total, metaphysical certitude-level agreement. 👍 And the following is a counterpoint to Toronado and the others who make a point which, while it does have a measure of merit, may not be the ideal way of seeing it.

Guys, think of it like this. Some of you are like McLaren who seems well enough off that he may well be able to afford any car he wants, within certain limits. I own a Supra, which very few people will even have a shot at buying. But suppose you're the 20 year old who's about to enter the workforce from college, and all you can afford is an '86 Mustang, or a '90 Tempo, or something similar which is considered a "less than significant" car at the least. Something hardly on the level of an S2000 or BMW M3.

However, given the chance to take your own car in ideal condition around the track, and modify it with a wide variety of enhancements, and furthermore, turn that car into a race car... wouldn't that be a hoot you'd try first chance you get? Heck, I would!

And I share Kaz's love of cars. I was browbeat recently over my love of the Mazda 6 and how much I savored the idea of making it into a race car like racing teams do, and made the mistake of using the term "staple" because I had seen so many images of it online with sometimes delicious liveries. Forza currently doesn't include it so I can't, but Gran Turismo offers me that possibility in GT6. And just in GT5, I've enjoyed making "make believe" race modded cars of literally many hundreds of Standard cars, squandering nearly 100 million credits to do so. Those cars to me are far from insignificant, and I want to have the same opportunity in the GTs to come. But as with all things Gran Turismo, we'll see what happens in the future, assuming our not-wit president and Arab radicals will leave the world intact.

 

[Imari]

Well, I think we've demonstrated that anyone can make statistics say whatever they like at this point.

 

[Samus]

And I share Kaz's love of cars. I was browbeat recently over my love of the Mazda 6 and how much I savored the idea of making it into a race car like racing teams do, and made the mistake of using the term "staple" because I had seen so many images of it online with sometimes delicious liveries. Forza currently doesn't include it so I can't, but Gran Turismo offers me that possibility in GT6. And just in GT5, I've enjoyed making "make believe" race modded cars of literally many hundreds of Standard cars, squandering nearly 100 million credits to do so. Those cars to me are far from insignificant, and I want to have the same opportunity in the GTs to come. But as with all things Gran Turismo, we'll see what happens in the future, assuming our not-wit president and Arab radicals will leave the world intact.

You keep going on about the Mazda 6 as being one car GT has that Forza doesn't but what about the opposite, what about all the 'staples' Forza has that GT doesn't? If it were the right thread I would strongly argue that overall Forza has more cars that matter and GT just has...more cars.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

You keep going on about the Mazda 6 as being one car GT has that Forza doesn't but what about the opposite, what about all the 'staples' Forza has that GT doesn't? If it were the right thread I would strongly argue that overall Forza has more cars that matter and GT just has...more cars.

This.👍

 

[MeanElf]

You have to be a Hitch-Hiker's Guide fan Wowbagger.

Samus is right though, the point isn't really relevant to this thread - unless of course the quantum leap in DLC is going to address that issue.

...I do think personally that there are cars as you say that just... who cares? Like the WWII Kubelwagen, or whatever it's called. I haven't even touched mine yet, any of the WWI military buckets, because I'm having too much fun with my Standards...

Dude, you really have to rally up the Schwimwagen or the Kubelwagen and take it around Toscana - it's a blast!

 

[another_jakhole]

You keep going on about the Mazda 6 as being one car GT has that Forza doesn't but what about the opposite, what about all the 'staples' Forza has that GT doesn't? If it were the right thread I would strongly argue that overall Forza has more cars that matter and GT just has...more cars.

Tonight's episode name of our last posts: Let Agree To Disagree MORE.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, I think we've demonstrated that anyone can make statistics say whatever they like at this point.

Well, now look Imari. You got an impression based purely on maximum sales figures without any consideration of sales over time, special pack-ins, market size based on consoles-in-homes, product milking - like, how many new games are marketed by the publisher for twelve years? It's not a lot. You have to admit that details like these are significant, not just raw sales figures.

I must say that I'm really blown away by how little the gaming public cares about the bad press GT5 received, and apparently loves the game. With the used market undoubtedly glutted with copies, the fact that people still support PD with new purchases is amazing.

You keep going on about the Mazda 6 as being one car GT has that Forza doesn't but what about the opposite, what about all the 'staples' Forza has that GT doesn't? If it were the right thread I would strongly argue that overall Forza has more cars that matter and GT just has...more cars.

Hey, I have mentioned a couple of times that I love the alternate car list in Forza 4 too, because GT5 is missing a number of its rides. In fact, the three cars I want to see in GT6 are Forza staples. And if the two games were merged, along with the physics and tire models somehow, it would rival rFactor 2 and iRacing among other PC sims in my hardly ever humble opinion.

But more significant cars? I refer my friend to remarks made by my friend a_jack.

 

[Imari]

Well, now look Imari. You got an impression based purely on maximum sales figures without any consideration of sales over time, special pack-ins, market size based on consoles-in-homes, product milking - like, how many new games are marketed by the publisher for twelve years? It's not a lot. You have to admit that details like these are significant, not just raw sales figures.

I could come back with some interpretation of the numbers in such a way that it might attempt to show something contrary, but really what's happening here is that you've made up your mind and you're looking for ways to interpret the data in such a way that GT isn't going downhill.

Which is why statistics are worse than lies. At least lies are straightforward, statistics it's hard to ever really be sure what's true and what isn't.

As of right now, GT5 has sold less copies than GT4, which sold less copies than GT3. That's my statement. Disagree with that if you want.

 

[McLOVIN5489]

I could come back with some interpretation of the numbers in such a way that it might attempt to show something contrary, but really what's happening here is that you've made up your mind and you're looking for ways to interpret the data in such a way that GT isn't going downhill.

Which is why statistics are worse than lies. At least lies are straightforward, statistics it's hard to ever really be sure what's true and what isn't.

As of right now, GT5 has sold less copies than GT4, which sold less copies than GT3. That's my statement. Disagree with that if you want.

Aren't those statistics you just gave, but more general? The fact that Ten D went in depth with them does not make them any less true.... It's actually quite the contrary.


Continue 👍

 

[MXH]

haha Hey, there's someone who understood that I wasn't serious.

I honestly thought you were being serious - for a second.

As of right now, GT5 has sold less copies than GT4, which sold less copies than GT3. That's my statement. Disagree with that if you want.

While you're correct from a purely statistical standpoint, I, for once, have to somewhat agree with a_jack's and (dare I say) T.D's ealier comment. Personally, I believe GT6 will be the one to show us whether the series is really going downhill as far as appeal and sales figures go, no matter what the Gran Turismo faithfuls has to say. Expect a lot of ''not enough hype'' and ''the second installment on the consoles has always performed worse then the first one sales wise, thus it's natural'' comments.

 

[Griffith500]

Well, I think we've demonstrated that anyone can make statistics say whatever they like at this point.

If your data isn't showing you anything concrete, you need more data. Either that, or you need to rethink the "problem".

From here.

I think it's interesting that GT4 has the classic exponential sales profile (looks like a "first-order step response" to me ), but GT5 has a double-dip coinciding with Spec 2 / v2.0 (roughly). The initial sales rate seem to be much higher for GT5 than GT4, too, despite the "installed user base" being much larger for PS2 than PS3 (but that might be partly due to the lack of early data for GT4; still, both games sold equally after about 9 months). Also, GT4 was the last game on a console that was still hugely popular (which is why it had such long legs, partly - GT5 also took its time in coming); GT5 will be overshadowed by GT6 (hopefully) on the same platform. Despite all of that, and of the obvious lull after 6 months ("backlash"), GT5 is actually selling better than GT4 was - the power of updates.

The 1% sales rate figure (below which the game is supposedly "done") for GT5 at the moment is roughly 3600 units per month; for GT4 it's 1200. Something tells me that's a poor metric, since it's heavily dependent on the initial take-up and is sort-of self-dependent...

As for the total sales figures (so far) of each game, there is no discernible pattern, and they're not actually comparable in any useful sense because of the somewhat different systems (people, hardware, markets, infrastructure, updates etc.) that they represent, and the different elapsed times (to the time their respective "total" sales figures were taken) for each game; ideally we'd be able to pull out a time to, say, 99% of current total sales to make that particular chart more useful.

Anyway, if you really want to compare the numbers, first compare the "systems" in their entirety.
What's fair to say is that DLC (being part of the "update" schedule) is definitely a positive for potential sales.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You keep going on about the Mazda 6 as being one car GT has that Forza doesn't but what about the opposite, what about all the 'staples' Forza has that GT doesn't? If it were the right thread I would strongly argue that overall Forza has more cars that matter and GT just has...more cars.

Too bad he doesn't post as often in those threads to challenge him on the subject because I can as well think of several cars that not a single GT game ever came close to having. Does this make me hate GT? Not, at all, but I do like facts more and the sad reality is Forza does have the greater diversity I think.