A Sports Car For a First Car?

[Mikeybc]

I'd look for a good used 2004 - 07 Acura TSX with a manual trans. 205 hp K-24 stock and can be upgraded with a re-flash from Hondata if you ever feel the need for more HP. Better yet its practical with 4 doors, reliable, sporty and was one of the best handling FWD cars you could get.

I'd avoid a used WRX like the plague.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

@LeadFootLiam You got to be kidding me, right? I have a feeling that you don't know what oversteer is. Ofcourse you can easily oversteer a Subaru WRX.











Reading your comment, I'm convinced the WRX is a potential death trap for you. Get a FWD car and you'll be a little bit safer.

The first video, the owner has a custom diff, so that does not count. Second one is legit. Third one most of them are RWD or have a custom diff. Forth one is in the wet. Fifth one is one snow. I think after 2004 the STis had adjustable diffs, so I could be completely wrong with what I said earlier.

 

[Harry6784]

Some of the advice in this thread doesn't make much sense. If you drive like you're supposed to on the street, performance oriented cars are much easier and safer to drive than old beaters. More grip, better brakes and greater acceleration all give you the edge when you need to do some defensive driving. The only reason performance cars might be considered more dangerous is because they make it easier to go faster. But even the worst POS econobox will be able to go faster than most speed limits.

And about the dangerous oversteer on the WRX, that's just simply wrong. It probably isn't impossible, but you would have to go out of your way so much, it would never happen just driving home from school or something. Even on my RWD Trans Am, with 368 lbf·ft of torque and TCS off you have to purposefully give it more gas than you would need to in order to kick the tail out. Even in the rain it's not a problem. I highly doubt that a car heavier, less powerful and with an active AWD system would be easier to oversteer.

OP, it boils down to how responsible you are. No one knows you better than you. If you know you are going to speed everywhere and drive wreckless, get a Civic until you mature. But if you know you have the discipline to drive 'slowly' even though you have a relatively fast car, go ahead.

 

[kikie]

Some of the advice in this thread doesn't make much sense. If you drive like you're supposed to on the street, performance oriented cars are much easier and safer to drive than old beaters. More grip, better brakes and greater acceleration all give you the edge when you need to do some defensive driving. The only reason performance cars might be considered more dangerous is because they make it easier to go faster. But even the worst POS econobox will be able to go faster than most speed limits.

And about the dangerous oversteer on the WRX, that's just simply wrong. It probably isn't impossible, but you would have to go out of your way so much, it would never happen just driving home from school or something. Even on my RWD Trans Am, with 368 lbf·ft of torque and TCS off you have to purposefully give it more gas than you would need to in order to kick the tail out. Even in the rain it's not a problem. I highly doubt that a car heavier, less powerful and with an active AWD system would be easier to oversteer.

OP, it boils down to how responsible you are. No one knows you better than you. If you know you are going to speed everywhere and drive wreckless, get a Civic until you mature. But if you know you have the discipline to drive 'slowly' even though you have a relatively fast car, go ahead.

Don't underestimateyoung guys with fast whom want to show off. And oversteering a WRX, in spite of what you said and other said, is easier. Give me a WRX and I oversteer it.
Go into a corner at a highet speed (showing off), somehow, apply the brakes a little bit, shift the weight to the front of the car (while cornering at a higher speed) or jurk the steering wheel too much and your precious WRX oversteers.

Granted, you have to go much faster with a permanent 50/50 4WD to oversteer than a less grippy FWD/RWD but don't forget the ego of some younger drivers showing off what they think they can do and they do it everywhere except where it's safe.

Don't forget, a WRX or STI is actually a road legal rally car. I think. No?

 

[Harry6784]

Don't underestimateyoung guys with fast whom want to show off. And oversteering a WRX, in spite of what you said and other said, is easier. Give me a WRX and I oversteer it.
Go into a corner at a highet speed (showing off), somehow, apply the brakes a little bit, shift the weight to the front of the car (while cornering at a higher speed) or jurk the steering wheel too much and your precious WRX oversteers.

Granted, you have to go much faster with a permanent 50/50 4WD to oversteer than a less grippy FWD/RWD but don't forget the ego of some younger drivers showing off what they think they can do and they do it everywhere except where it's safe.

Don't forget, a WRX or STI is actually a road legal rally car. I think. No?

Like I said, you would have to go out of your way so much it wouldn't happen if you just drive it normally.

Much of the reasoning in this thread is based on the assumption that he will drive quickly and dangerously on purpose to 'impress his friends'. With that reasoning I can probably but a Geo Metro in a ditch even though its a great 'first car'.

 

[kikie]

Like I said, you would have to go out of your way so much it wouldn't happen if you just drive it normally.

Much of the reasoning in this thread is based on the assumption that he will drive quickly and dangerously on purpose to 'impress his friends'. With that reasoning I can probably but a Geo Metro in a ditch even though its a great 'first car'.

But that's the whole point of this thread. If you drive carefully, you can even drive a F1 war car without any problems.

He asked if it is a good first car. He already said, a while back in another thread, that he had to pay his father for damaging his father's car. And after that he said that he wanted to play with his mother's car in the snow. This doesn't sound to me as a responsible driver, hence me saying what I said.

 

[Harry6784]

But that's the whole point of this thread. If you drive carefully, you can even drive a F1 war without any problems.

I would love to drive one

He asked if it is a good first car. He already said, a while back in another thread, that he had to pay his father for damaging his father's car. And after that he said that he wanted to play with his mother's car in the snow. This doesn't sound to me as a responsible driver, hence me saying what I said.

I played with my car in the snow just last weekend. Nothing wrong with having fun with your car, but it takes a mature person to tell where and when that's ok. Drift in a large empty parking lot? Minimal danger. Drift around a blind curve? (seen my friends actually do that) Stupid idea.

 

[Omnis]

This is the perfect first car. Cheap as hell, easy as hell to maintain, will run even if you decide to replace the oil with brownie batter. If things break, they can be fixed with glue, tape, or fridge magnets. You will learn how to be a respectful driver. This car will teach you that driving like an asshole is futile. Best of all, this car will help you defeat teen pregnancy. It will ward off money sinks of the opposite sex, helping your finances greatly. You're going to love this car.

 

[kikie]

I would love to drive one

Me too

I played with my car in the snow just last weekend. Nothing wrong with having fun with your car, but it takes a mature person to tell where and when that's ok. Drift in a large empty parking lot? Minimal danger. Drift around a blind curve? (seen my friends actually do that) Stupid idea.

Agreed.


Oh, I just thought of something. My first post(s) in this thread were about oversteering a WRX and loosing control, getting in an accident, not drifting or powersliding. You can easily oversteer any road car. Even race cars with slicks oversteer. As you all know, oversteering a car is a technique to start powersliding. It is the initial movenment of a car before you start to powerslide and that's is not what I was talking about. I think. I'm not good in offensive car control.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Despite my name, I drive sensibly, if I am going to speed I will go to a quite area where if I were to crash only myself would be in danger. Some of my friends do 50 over the speed limit all the time, not cool at all.

I know a day at AutoX or a trackday is much cheaper than getting a speeding ticket or paying to get your car out of the impound.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

You don't have to be speeding to exceed your driving and the car's capabilities.

 

[RVDNuT374]

1996-2007 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable-

You can easily pick one up in great condition for around $1500-4500. Despite what you may have read, these cars actually handle fairly well for what they are, especially with better tires. Power is adequate with the more common Vulcan V6, plentiful with the higher output but less common Duratec V6. These cars never came with a manual transmission, only a 4-speed automatic which is a bit on the fragile side, so pay close attention to how the transmission shifts if you decide to test drive one. Other trouble spots are the factory coolant tank in the 96-03's develops cracks in it after while; OEM replacements run about $60. Also, change the coolant in the Vulcan engine every 2 years; it is infamous for rust in the cooling system which can lead to very bad things. Finally, watch out if the rear of the car is sagging, that means the struts/springs are shot and replacement is apparently very expensive. If anybody asks why I am a strong supporter of this car, I've been the proud owner of one for over eight years with little trouble. 👍 The only non-maintenance items I've had to change out were the fuel pump (very expensive , but I'm fairly confident the Motorcraft replacement unit is not made in China) and the mentioned coolant tank.

 

[McLaren]

Some of the advice in this thread doesn't make much sense. If you drive like you're supposed to on the street, performance oriented cars are much easier and safer to drive than old beaters. More grip, better brakes and greater acceleration all give you the edge when you need to do some defensive driving. The only reason performance cars might be considered more dangerous is because they make it easier to go faster. But even the worst POS econobox will be able to go faster than most speed limits.

The difference is cars like a M3 or WRX are going to be more tempting to hoon in because there's power there to do so, and with that, more power to catch you off guard. Something like a Corolla or Civic have limits that are relatively easy to discover at reasonably low speeds because the cars aren't engineered to be pushed hard. An M3 has limits well above a young driver's talent & by the time said driver discovers it, he likely doesn't have the knowledge to react properly.

As for being easier & safer, that's not exactly true. Most performance cars tend to react quicker to everything which makes it easy for someone to over-do it. Goose a Civic through a turn & it'll probably pick up a little speed & understeer. Goose a M3 through a turn & it won't be hard to kick the tail out which puts someone new to driving one in a position of easily over-correcting it. Bring in manuals, & performance cars typically always have trickier clutches to learn. Being safer, yes, performance cars are generally safer, but it doesn't take much to lose control of a M3 than a Civic or Corolla.

What you're talking about ultimately comes down to driver skill; if you've been driving for a lengthy period of time, yes, you can drive the performance car easier because you've learned how over time. Time usually consists of driving other, slower cars to reach that point however, a time span of learning your limits & expanding them as you become more comfortable with them. An M3 doesn't leave a lot of room for a young driver to learn his limits because the car's limits are just so far beyond his, that it will naturally feel like you're not even trying. Then you're in a position of trying to find how comfortable you are at 4/10ths with the car & not suddenly find yourself at 6 or 7/10ths because you decided to push a bit more; the car reacts quickly.

A WRX or M3 as a first car just requires a lot of patience & self-discipline. It's only going to be natural to want to open it up, the question is will you know when to back off before you're at a point you can't control it because you haven't spent enough time learning how the car reacts at higher speeds. I'm speaking from some experience here; I had an E36 M3 some years ago & it was a really fun car. But, it was also a lot of car to begin driving with.

 

[NixxxoN]

As several people said, its not a good first car.

1) too expensive
2) too expensive to run and maintain
3) dangerous for inexperienced drivers

 

[hawkeye122]

If you do as much Autocross as you claim, then you'd know that being in the lowest class and beating people in upper classes feels awesome.

I'm also going to point out that at some point you may go away to college, where one of two things will happen-
A) Your baby will sit outside, unused because you'd rather have clean clothes than drive your mates to That City Which Is Much Cooler Than This One, And Just Far Enough Away To Be Obnoxious-ville, because neither an M3 nor a WRX are easy on gas
-or-
B) Your parents won't see the purpose in spending the extra $400 a semester just to have a car sit, and you won't have it at all..

Also, what happens if you do bring your car and "something" breaks on it. Now you're right screwed.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

If you do as much Autocross as you claim, then you'd know that being in the lowest class and beating people in upper classes feels awesome.

I'm also going to point out that at some point you may go away to college, where one of two things will happen-
A) Your baby will sit outside, unused because you'd rather have clean clothes than drive your mates to That City Which Is Much Cooler Than This One, And Just Far Enough Away To Be Obnoxious-ville, because neither an M3 nor a WRX are easy on gas
-or-
B) Your parents won't see the purpose in spending the extra $400 a semester just to have a car sit, and you won't have it at all..

Also, what happens if you do bring your car and "something" breaks on it. Now you're right screwed.

I'm not going to college, starting a detailing business with a friend, we already have some wealthy clients, and have my foot in the door with a rapidly growing construction company. So none of what you said applies to me.

 

[hawkeye122]

I'm not going to college, starting a detailing business with a friend, we already have some wealthy clients, and have my foot in the door with a rapidly growing construction company. So none of what you said applies to me.

Well then, best of luck to you then. You have life pretty sorted...

 

[kikie]

Despite my name, I drive sensibly, if I am going to speed I will go to a quite area where if I were to crash only myself would be in danger. Some of my friends do 50 over the speed limit all the time, not cool at all.

I know a day at AutoX or a trackday is much cheaper than getting a speeding ticket or paying to get your car out of the impound.

Very good to hear. But it's better not to crash at all even if you're alone. This is, in my book, not a responsible way of thinking about driving a car. Think about what your family has to go through if you crash a car. Not even to mention the cost of wrecking a car.

I had to look up LeadFoot in de urbandictionary. Now I know what it means.

 

[SVX]

Nope. Just get a Corolla or Civic.

That's what I'm aiming at anyway, or what ever is cheap at the time. And I've been surrounded by Legacys, SVXs and Imprezas, etc. all my life.

I don't know how old you are, but if I was you I'd just save as much money as you can, and when the time finally comes when you have your license, have a job and have no debts, then you can start worrying about what your first car is going to be. That's what I'm doing anyway. 👍

 

[Doog]

If you get a Civic, you might as well get a luxurious one:

Just not the Type S, of course. That's a Civic Si in a suit, and Civic Si insurance rates aren't exactly enviable.

 

[SVX]

By Civic I was thinking EG or EK, as that's what's cheap here.

 

[Doog]

The EL (precursor to the CSX pictured above; same basic principle) dates back to the later EK days.

 

[SVX]

If he's able to buy/get bought a WRX I think the second Civic you have shown would be a good car. It's still a Civic, but it's a modern one so you can have a bit more dignity driving it. I have no idea what prices of anything are like in the US and Canada though, so I could be way off.

 

[Famine]

Some of the advice in this thread doesn't make much sense. If you drive like you're supposed to on the street, performance oriented cars are much easier and safer to drive than old beaters.

It's the "if" that's the problem here.


It's almost inevitable that you will crash in your first three years of driving. The difference between driving a 1.5 Civic and a performance car is that when you crash, you will be doing it much, much faster in the performance car. Like-for-like safety improvements don't do much when you're quadrupling the kinetic energy of an impact.

Yes, you can still break speed limits in a shopping trolley - you can break speed limits on a bicycle - but it takes longer to do so.

And about the dangerous oversteer on the WRX, that's just simply wrong. It probably isn't impossible, but you would have to go out of your way so much, it would never happen just driving home from school or something.

Novice drivers are not known for their finesse. Give them massive limits and they'll still exceed them - teenage boys could oversteer an aircraft carrier in the school car park.

 

[Harry6784]

Again, were all assuming that the OP will drive like a lunatic without regard to anyone's safety. What if I told you that not all 'beginner' drivers are bad drivers? I was a car enthusiast way before I could get into the drivers seat. When the time came to get my license, I already knew how to drive a car so all I needed to learn was driving protocols and regulations. I passed my written test and my driving test first try with perfect scores. I have been driving now for a little over 2 years and no tickets or accidents to report while my parents have gotten 3 or 4 tickets in the same time frame. Just because teenage males have created a stereotype of driving irresponsibly doesn't mean every single one will do so.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Again, were all assuming that the OP will drive like a lunatic without regard to anyone's safety. What if I told you that not all 'beginner' drivers are bad drivers? I was a car enthusiast way before I could get into the drivers seat. When the time came to get my license, I already knew how to drive a car so all I needed to learn was driving protocols and regulations. I passed my written test and my driving test first try with perfect scores. I have been driving now for a little over 2 years and no tickets or accidents to report while my parents have gotten 3 or 4 tickets in the same time frame. Just because teenage males have created a stereotype of driving irresponsibly doesn't mean every single one will do so.

Ok, I'll bite again:

You don't have to be driving like a lunatic to get into trouble.


I'd wager most of the drivers on this forum scared themselves at some point during their first year of driving, not necessarily from driving like a lunatic, but simply from driving 'a bit too fast for the conditions'. I gave myself a scare twice in my first year, both of which would have been far less worrying had I been going just 5 or so mph slower than I was. One was a car parked the otherside of a blind corner while I came round at about 37-8 and the other was simply misjudging a corner on a road I didn't know particularly well.

Luckily both times came to nothing, but had I been in a performance car I would've been more likely to have been going just a little bit faster again because the limits of the vehicle are so high, so you don't realise how fast you're going.

Does that make me a bad driver? No, I wouldn't have said so, it just means I didn't have the experience to be ready for those two occasions. Now I'm a much bigger and better driver for having a year and a half of driving experience under my belt and haven't had a moment like that for a good 6 or so months. And after another year or two when I've got even more driving experience under my belt I'll make the step up to something a bit more performance oriented.

 

[Famine]

Again, were all assuming that the OP will drive like a lunatic without regard to anyone's safety.

Nope.

What if I told you that not all 'beginner' drivers are bad drivers?

I'd wonder why you were giving me information I already knew.

I was a car enthusiast way before I could get into the drivers seat. When the time came to get my license, I already knew how to drive a car so all I needed to learn was driving protocols and regulations. I passed my written test and my driving test first try with perfect scores. I have been driving now for a little over 2 years and no tickets or accidents to report while my parents have gotten 3 or 4 tickets in the same time frame. Just because teenage males have created a stereotype of driving irresponsibly doesn't mean every single one will do so.

Quite so.

Now let's look at the statistics. Novice drivers are three times more likely to have a crash than drivers with 3 or more years experience. Drivers aged 17-21 are twice as likely as any other age group for which there are a statistically significant number of drivers to have a crash (85 and over gets close, but there's not so many of them) - more for males - and three times more likely to die in a crash. I recall they're five times as likely to be involved in a fatal accident, either as drivers or passengers and not necessarily as the victim - but I can't find the source for that number right now so feel free to disregard. Your personal testimony gets entered into the statistics as one novice teenage driver, but there's several million of them (in the UK; tens of millions, no doubt, in the USA) who are putting themselves in hedges, hospitals and morgues at a rate two to three times higher than the average motorist - you're not statistically significant.*

It's not a stereotype - they are the most dangerous group of drivers** on the road. That doesn't mean LFL here will top himself between now and 2017, but he's a member of the group most likely to do so.


The question was "is a 300hp Subaru Impreza a good car to give a teenage novice driver?". The answer is not unless you actively wish it to be their last car, no.


* Neither am I, nor any other individual. I've got no speeding tickets (nor any other road traffic penalties) and never have - that's irrelevant to the overall driving offence statistics of mid-30s males in the UK, save for offsetting it down by a fraction of a hundredth of a percent.
**The only more dangerous group are motorcyclists, who are ten times more likely to die, normalised per mile, than any other group

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Hell I might just get one of these. MK4 Si

Great on gas, easy to work on, reliable, great at Autox. They can look amazing as well.

 

[Famine]

Do you plan on driving this about the public roads as a car?

If so, forget how good your potential car will be as an autocrosser or any other racer. Never race at the weekend the car you need to get to school or work on Monday morning.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Do you plan on driving this about the public roads as a car?

If so, forget how good your potential car will be as an autocrosser or any other racer. Never race at the weekend the car you need to get to school or work on Monday morning.

Yes of course. I will mod it so I can do well on the track and Autox, but making sure I can still use it as a daily driver. This is a Honda remember, they are pretty much bullet proof.