A Sports Car For a First Car?
- Thread starter LeadFootLiam
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- liampage123
Two seats, and I won't be able to fit my golf clubs in the back. (Yes, I actually play golf)
Judging by the description, that M3 seems to be in good condition. If I had the money saved up I would most likely buy it.
Its not like it has gobs of power. But, yes, the maintenance would make me poor.
- 11,969
- Christchurch
Pretty sure this applies to the M3 also:
It's almost always a bad idea to buy a performance car as your first vehicle, mainly because people that do that tend to buy such vehicles because they think they're the next Ayrton Senna, or they think they're going to look like a loser to their mates if they're not in something a) turbo b) RWD or c) loud. It doesn't matter how cool you look to your buddies in your car if you've stuffed said car into a ditch and killed yourself, does it?
Buy a 1.8 Corolla. Practical, cheap, reliable, cheap, safe, cheap.
It's almost always a bad idea to buy a performance car as your first vehicle, mainly because people that do that tend to buy such vehicles because they think they're the next Ayrton Senna, or they think they're going to look like a loser to their mates if they're not in something a) turbo b) RWD or c) loud. It doesn't matter how cool you look to your buddies in your car if you've stuffed said car into a ditch and killed yourself, does it?
Buy a 1.8 Corolla. Practical, cheap, reliable, cheap, safe, cheap.
- 2,790
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- liampage123
Looking "cool" in front of my friends are not my motives for buying a performance car. I love driving, I love cars, therefore, I want a performance car.
Really? Those are boring cars, mainly bought by people who would believe it if you told them your car has has an inline V8 rotary engine.
- 4,112
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AWD is not that easy man. It can kick in and bite you in the ass like any other car. That blue makes a good tree armament.
E30 is a good fit.
It's very, very forgiving in autocross and it's easy to learn. My dad owns one and he lets me drive it from time to time. It's quick if you want it to be and the engines are extremely durable. Ask any other E30 owner on this forum.
E30 is a good fit.
It's very, very forgiving in autocross and it's easy to learn. My dad owns one and he lets me drive it from time to time. It's quick if you want it to be and the engines are extremely durable. Ask any other E30 owner on this forum.
- 17,865
- 509
No, it just has RWD and enough torque down low to make you want to hoon. Add in confidence inspiring handling and brakes, and you're on the fast track to over estimating what you can do in the car. Pile on lots of little maintenance bits (guess how I know) with sometimes awkward parts, and you're now putting money into something you'll likely crash. If you don't do the work yourself, shops that work on BMW's typically aren't cheap.
The WRX is similar, but probably a bit cheaper on maintenance.
I drove a 1.8 Corolla for a few years, along with a Tercel and Civic. I had good times with all, despite two being bone stock and slow. I actually learned to enjoy driving in the Tercel (first car) by tossing it around on gravel and snow. You don't need power or RWD to enjoy your first car, or to learn somethings in before moving up.
Honestly, if I had the M3 as my first car, I'd have destroyed it by misjudging a situation. Hell, even if it was my second car instead of the old MR2 that was anything but stock, I'd have crashed despite never crashing the MR2. Why? Because the M3 inspires confidence, where the MR2 scared me half to death at speed with how twitchy it was.
@phillkillv2 - my main concern with the E30 suggestion is their value is a bit inflated from demand.
- 5,896
- Canada
1.8 Corolla:
I second the Corolla thing. But if you're still worried about it being boring, get a first generation Matrix XRS. It has the same rev happy engine as the Corolla shown in the video above.
I second the Corolla thing. But if you're still worried about it being boring, get a first generation Matrix XRS. It has the same rev happy engine as the Corolla shown in the video above.
- 3,200
- Murcie LP710
Not really. Symmetrical AWD is a 50/50 constant split unless you buy an automatic, and Subaru dial in understeer to their cars from factory. They have incredibly high limits and you need to be going like a complete madman for them to reach the understeer stage in which case you let off the throttle a little and the front will wash out less.
I am in agreeance with those who do say however that it will make you think you're better than what you actually are which is true to a point. In regular daily driving though and in a stock vehicle you'll struggle to tell the difference between a naturally aspirated Impreza and a WRX until you get til about 3.5k rpm and the boost really starts; even then the Bugeyes had the same 160kW/290Nm of torque as a GC WRX and they weighed 1390kg which was 100kg more.
The entire problem in my view with regards to it being your first car and a potential autocross vehicle is that you ARE going to want to modify it. And the deal with that is that even with such mild mods as an ECU and TBE (and yes, I have a GC8 WRX with both of these mods plus others so I know what they're capable of before you ask), in no time at all you're running more power at the fly than an STi. Add another few grand and you're looking at over 250hp at all four wheels.
The other problem which stems from that is that once you get the modification parasite, you cannot stop it. Especially with a vehicle with such a vast amount of aftermarket capabilities as the WRX.
A T23 Celica or DC-whatever Integra or RSX will be safer, slower, and it takes a lot more money from mods to actually make some decent gains in power from either of them which will shift your focus instead to the stuff that actually matters the most: suspension, and tyres.
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- 4,112
- United States
I'm saying any car can get to you by misinterpreting it.
- 4,792
- Canada
AWD is not that easy man. It can kick in and bite you in the ass like any other car. That blue makes a good tree armament.
E30 is a good fit.
It's very, very forgiving in autocross and it's easy to learn. My dad owns one and he lets me drive it from time to time. It's quick if you want it to be and the engines are extremely durable. Ask any other E30 owner on this forum.
E30's are very sexy. I'm thinking about getting one as my first car.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
- 2,298
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- Bluntified
Crawl before you run my friend 
.
Its better to beat the heck out a junker in the beginning rather than something expensive - unless you're totally rich where moneys no object.
After a couple years, go nuts, you'll have a greater appreciation for what your driving and take better care of it.
It took me till the age of 25 where I realized a car isn't a toy, now its just an extra pain in my backside.
. Its better to beat the heck out a junker in the beginning rather than something expensive - unless you're totally rich where moneys no object.
After a couple years, go nuts, you'll have a greater appreciation for what your driving and take better care of it.
It took me till the age of 25 where I realized a car isn't a toy, now its just an extra pain in my backside.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,391
- Texas
You claim you can adapt, yet you already aren't recognizing just how much power 240Hp is. For someone's first car, that's way more than enough to overwhelm someone trying to "adapt" to it, whether by accident or not. 0-60 in 6 seconds was fast back in the 90's & is still quick today, which in a RWD car, means it'll be more than easy to find yourself in any direction than straight.
Have you even done any research on the maintenance requirements for the E36 M3 or what to watch out for when buying one?
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
Nearly impossible to oversteer an STi? That's why there's a large scar on my hand from when my friend oversteered his off a cliff with me in it.
I had a Geo Tracker as my first car. Slow, Small, unsafe, and only got about 19 MPG. Don't recommend.
I'm a freshman in college and currently have a Gen 4 Camry. It always works, it's manual, gets 32 mpg, and has 5 seats. Qualifies for Autocross H-Stock, and that's the end of it. Perfect. Fast? No. But it keeps me out of trouble
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@LeadFootLiam You got to be kidding me, right? I have a feeling that you don't know what oversteer is. Ofcourse you can easily oversteer a Subaru WRX.
Reading your comment, I'm convinced the WRX is a potential death trap for you. Get a FWD car and you'll be a little bit safer.
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- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
@LeadFootLiam Here, browse this.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/this-this-right-here-is-why-you-take-it-to-the-track.265769/
Statistically, if you're younger than 18 and get a WRX, you'll almost certainly crash it in the first 8 months of ownership.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/this-this-right-here-is-why-you-take-it-to-the-track.265769/
Statistically, if you're younger than 18 and get a WRX, you'll almost certainly crash it in the first 8 months of ownership.
- 3,694
- South Australia
The WRX and M3 are very nice cars, no doubt about it, but I have some real world advice for you mate. Maintenance will cost you a lot. The servicing and maintenance for my 300zx cost me a fortune* because parts do not lose value with cars. That M3 was not a cheap car 20 years ago and parts for beamers are notoriously dear. The WRX is a turbo'd performance car that is hugely popular with men in our age bracket. As others have said, prepare to walk straight into someone else's problem- wallet first.
The same can be said for insurance for us under 21 year old males. It is rightfully very expensive** because we do risky things and crash. Not saying you will, but I can nearly guarantee that one of your friends will by the time you're 20.
Not to mention the cost price of the cars you are looking at. My first car costed $1000. It served me very well for 2 years until I had a steady wage and some money behind me. Looking back, I'm very glad that's the way I went because I learnt many things owning that car. The importance of regular maintenance, wiping off bird droppings before it can damage paint, how a car handles when pushed and not letting other people drive your car if you aren't around. All of which I learnt the hard way and I'm glad I did so with something that wasn't worth $10k+.
I'll also point out that peer pressure is a very powerful thing. It's amazing what a person will do with a group of friends egging him on. Add to that a car with a very confidence inspiring driving feel and you could end up in a world of hurt.
Look, I can only tell you what I know from experience. Owning a sports car at a young age is great on a few levels. You'll love driving it, be very proud to call it your own and have tons of fun with it. But the financial reality is something of a nightmare. Buy yourself something a little cheaper, (a NA Impreza would be an excellent compromise) learn how to own and drive a car in the real world***, then after a year or two think about your options again. By then you will be a little bit wiser and may be able to afford an E46 M3 or WRX STI... Or you may have a wife, a leadfoot junior and a whole lot of commitments
*The 100k service for my 300zx was over $1700 and that's 'just' a Nissan. The thought of maintaining an M3 from the same era chills me to my core.
**My 86 is costing me $50 a week in insurance. I'm the only listed driver, living in the middle of no-where and using a locked garage. Running through your parents is a good idea but it'll still cost a pretty penny.
***With all due respect, autocross experience =/= driving experience.
EDIT: Read Hawkeye's thread too, chilling stuff.
The same can be said for insurance for us under 21 year old males. It is rightfully very expensive** because we do risky things and crash. Not saying you will, but I can nearly guarantee that one of your friends will by the time you're 20.
Not to mention the cost price of the cars you are looking at. My first car costed $1000. It served me very well for 2 years until I had a steady wage and some money behind me. Looking back, I'm very glad that's the way I went because I learnt many things owning that car. The importance of regular maintenance, wiping off bird droppings before it can damage paint, how a car handles when pushed and not letting other people drive your car if you aren't around. All of which I learnt the hard way and I'm glad I did so with something that wasn't worth $10k+.
I'll also point out that peer pressure is a very powerful thing. It's amazing what a person will do with a group of friends egging him on. Add to that a car with a very confidence inspiring driving feel and you could end up in a world of hurt.
Look, I can only tell you what I know from experience. Owning a sports car at a young age is great on a few levels. You'll love driving it, be very proud to call it your own and have tons of fun with it. But the financial reality is something of a nightmare. Buy yourself something a little cheaper, (a NA Impreza would be an excellent compromise) learn how to own and drive a car in the real world***, then after a year or two think about your options again. By then you will be a little bit wiser and may be able to afford an E46 M3 or WRX STI... Or you may have a wife, a leadfoot junior and a whole lot of commitments
*The 100k service for my 300zx was over $1700 and that's 'just' a Nissan. The thought of maintaining an M3 from the same era chills me to my core.
**My 86 is costing me $50 a week in insurance. I'm the only listed driver, living in the middle of no-where and using a locked garage. Running through your parents is a good idea but it'll still cost a pretty penny.
***With all due respect, autocross experience =/= driving experience.
EDIT: Read Hawkeye's thread too, chilling stuff.
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- 5,198
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- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
Was just going to link that thread myself.
Get something slow, cheap, reliable and preferably FWD. You learn a lot in your first year or two of driving, don't overestimate your own driving ability and (more importantly) don't overestimate your own self restraint.
I guarantee you'll still enjoy driving it. Then get something more performance oriented after a couple of years, preferably when you're in full time employment.
- 3,200
- Murcie LP710
Aside from lift-off oversteer, which is applicable to any drive type, no it's not very easy to get the rear in a WRX unstuck on a regular road. Again, the WRXs have a rear-end-grip bias (ie. natural tendency to understeer).
Add low friction coefficients and some Scando flick and sure, the back will step round nicely. But not everyone's Petter Solberg on their daily route to the shops are they?
- 5,905
- West Yorkshire
- Katiegan
- KatieB53
To be honest, if someone believes that they can just 'adapt' to fairly quick cars and have nothing to worry about, then the only way to tell them otherwise is unfortunately for them to wreck the car, as shown in @hawkeye122's thread. Don't get me wrong, there are kids out there with decent cars who don't think they're the next Ken Block and don't wrap their cars around trees, but if you're ignorant about it, the only way you can learn is from your mistakes.
If you truly believe you can adapt to anything and can handle power, then buy a slower car and beat the faster cars in autocross. Once you get good in a slower car, then you can start thinking about faster cars. Don't try to run before you can walk.
If you truly believe you can adapt to anything and can handle power, then buy a slower car and beat the faster cars in autocross. Once you get good in a slower car, then you can start thinking about faster cars. Don't try to run before you can walk.
Every permanent 4WD has a tendency to understeer, which I already mentioned. I'm almost 100% sure that it is not that difficult to oversteer a 4WD.
Every car oversteers under the right (not right for people whom don't have the skills to control a car properly) conditions. It's a bit harder with a WRX because of the permantent 4WD system, which divides the forces on the wheels to 4 wheels instead of 2 wheels. This makes the tires less prone to lose grip, which makes it a bit more difficult to oversteer. But I can asure you that an inexperienced driver will oversteer a WRX when he gets cocky and his ego wants to show off what he can, to his friends. And that's what I was trying to say in my forst post. It's a dangerous car for inexperienced drivers who with the wrong attitude.
Not saying that LeadFootLiam's attitude is wrong. It's just a general statement.
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- GTP_Famine
Then to answer your question, no, it's not a good first car - but it'll probably be your last one.
Joey D
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- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
If you hoon at an autox or a track day they are going to kick you out. Hooning at an autox is dangerous for the corner workers and hooning at a track day is dangerous for the other cars you're sharing the track with.
- 3,200
- Murcie LP710
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- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Don't you already have a Ferrari F12? 
I'd avoid performance cars, period. Go with something slow and cheap, and work your way up. It doesn't have to be a boring car, just one that you can realistically afford and won't kill yourself in. I think you're underestimating how much power 200 bhp is.
I'd avoid performance cars, period. Go with something slow and cheap, and work your way up. It doesn't have to be a boring car, just one that you can realistically afford and won't kill yourself in. I think you're underestimating how much power 200 bhp is.
- 3,200
- Murcie LP710
Not so much about the outputs as it is about the delivery.
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- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
True. A Civic Si would be far less potent and dangerous, despite having similar power, as you have to rev the pants off it to get the power, while the WRX will give you very strong midrange torque, likely with a bit of turbo lag.
INEEDNAWZZZ
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LeadFootLiam
Every new driver who likes cars has this idea in their head, but trust me, it's not a good way to go. I spent so much time thinking I could handle a Starlet GT (basically a 130 BHP, 900 Kg, turbocharged, older version of my first car) and that it wasn't a lot of power. I test drove my dad's car (an Abarth 595), which is similar in principle (FWD, turbo, light, same sort of power and weight) and realised straight away that it would lead to trouble easily; in terms of safety, the law and running costs.
Honestly, pick something which is fun to drive but doesn't rely on power to much. A Miata would be good, but you've already ruled it out. Seeing as you're in Canada, where having a bigger sized car is not much of an issue to young drivers, I would advise something like a Civic or that Integra. They are inexpensive, easy to repair, get good mileage, lots of spare parts available, and (since you're into autocrossing) have lots of modification options open to you.
For reference, my car is a 1.3 litre, front wheel drive bucket, with stupidly high amounts of body roll and (taking the amount of miles on it into consideration) at best 60 HP. And yet, it is surprisingly fun and sprightely to drive. I know it sounds dumb since I've only driven three cars, and you have a bit of track time under your belt, but you don't necessarily need to buy a car with performance credentials for it to be a good overall purchase.
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