ABS 0 community where are you???

[CJSpencer77]

Ive been racing with ABS 0 for a while now, the league i race in has changed to an ABS 0 league and even though there was some complaints at first everybody ( 24 people ) all now love it and wont go back to ABS 1, were not ABS 0 snobs, were just enjoying the new challange, the only thing we have noticed is a severe lack of ABS 0 rooms, the only ABS 0 community i have found is a bunch of french guys, they are cool drivers and very fast as well, but speak very little english, other than that theres a couple of brits ( gtp_ghostdriver and rostafer ) and a few spainish guys and thats about the only guys i can find !!!.

If there are other guys out there who run ABS 0 then point me in the right direction please !!!!

 

[Wardez]

Pure's been selectively running no ABS leagues and spot races since last year, and there were a few others running regular races sans ABS since way before that. It's a novel way to race, but that feeling wears off quickly when every one figures out setting brake bias to 1 and 1 makes the brakes stomperrific again.

But it's fun, for a while. It's just that there's actually more room for tuning the brakes when ABS is on, so we'd rather do it that way. When it's off, the only tuning options you get is 1-1, 1-2, or 2-1. The one thing it does do is give advantage to drivers who are great at braking, which always a good thing to do, but it's still not good enough of a package to keep for serious sim racing.

 

[Fondo458]

I can't do ABS 0 with the controller. Pushing the brake button equates to slamming on the brakes, locking up the wheels and spinning off course, so I usually run ABS 1-3 (3 for race cars) to simulate partial brake input. Same reason I keep traction control at 1.

 

[shirakawaa]

If you're spinning off when braking it's because you haven't set up the braking balance properly (which PD set to an idiotic default of 5/5).
If you do, then ABS 0 will be easily manageable with a DS3 controller too.

With a DS3 I generally use as a brake balance on stock street cars:
6/2 for front-balanced FR cars
5/2 for 50/50 balanced FR cars
5/3 for MR cars
5/2 or 5/1 and rarely 5/0 for MR cars (the latter two settings also for some FR ones) that seem to spin very easily under braking, no matter what.
6/2 or 6/3 for FF cars (on FF cars the rear axle is less stressed than a on rear traction car and can withstand a limited amount of locking under braking without adverse consequences, which helps them turn better around corners)

With race tires and cars with strong aerodynamic effects these settings need to be increased. But I don't drive them very often.
I also find that with my DFGT wheel with a modified brake pedal (hard sponge) I need to increase brake settings too.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I often host no ABS room on public lobby or in my lounge, as said in my sig, I never use ABS Not many people here enjoy no ABS driving for various reasons, so it will be hard to find them. To anyone who have hard time with no ABS and using DS3, please try use DS2 stick from PS2, get a USB adapter, you will like it.

Most of my car have 9/5 BB, some even have 10/6, no ABS and DS2, brake as late as ABS drivers. It's all because of practice and practice. I did some tests at a shootout, the ABS alone hides most of the cars unique quirks and handling traits :

FITT 60/40, 40/60 Final Test Result

The comments were based on no ABS driving that I did earlier, the tuners requested that I tested with ABS, only the time reflected ABS driving, not much of a difference to my no ABS time, except for certain car. With ABS, most of my comment about the car's quirks or unique behavior are almost non existent or less pronounced.

 

[photonrider]

Brake balance settings are crucial to handling while braking - even IRL.
Because it's a game - we have 'Game Settings' sort of almost like saying 'difficulty settings.'
As long as the playing field is even (settings equal for everyone; as in ALL ABS 0) - it's then the most skillful at the game - with that particular configuration of settings, that wins.

Individual tune-ups within the agreed settings are another thing, patches that change everything notwithstanding.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

When it's off, the only tuning options you get is 1-1, 1-2, or 2-1.

I wouldn't have said that was true, if you're using BBs that low then you're losing out significantly in high speed braking zones.

I most often use 4-2 brake bias as a basis and adjust from there, 4WDs will generally need 5-2/4-1, heavier cars might need 3-1 and racecars can often handle 6-3.

However in response to the OP: there are people out there not using ABS, often people who enjoy it (like me) will use no ABS in ABS allowed rooms/leagues. Just because you're allowed to use it doesn't mean you have to. 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

An example of how high BB is possible with no ABS and stick controller :

My replay that I uploaded long ago

 

[CJSpencer77]

However in response to the OP: there are people out there not using ABS, often people who enjoy it (like me) will use no ABS in ABS allowed rooms/leagues. Just because you're allowed to use it doesn't mean you have to. 👍

I also use ABS 0 when im in ABS 1 rooms, but it can cause problems with braking distances being different.

But in league races where everyone is using ABS 0 for some reason i find the racing to be a load closer, im still not exactly sure why !

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I also use ABS 0 when im in ABS 1 rooms, but it can cause problems with braking distances being different.

But in league races where everyone is using ABS 0 for some reason i find the racing to be a load closer, im still not exactly sure why !

Braking distance can be cured with higher value BB, threshold braking and proper front/rear bias. I often joined shuffle rooms, almost all other drivers uses ABS, and I don't. I never have issues of braking earlier than other or ramming the car in front due to lock ups, and yes practice is important, best to brake a little early to get used to it.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Braking distance can be cured with higher value BB, threshold braking and proper front/rear bias. I often joined shuffle rooms, almost all other drivers uses ABS, and I don't. I never have issues of braking earlier than other or ramming the car in front due to lock ups, and yes practice is important, best to brake a little early to get used to it.

This pretty much explained it. 👍 However that is car dependent, some cars are just a pain to drive without ABS and will go completely sideways under trailbraking- whatever BB you use.

 

[CJSpencer77]

Ive been using 4 2 for most higher downforce race cars and 3 1 for road, but you guys seem to all be running higher values and keeping the front/rear ratio bigger, ill try this tommorow and see how I go.

On the note of an ABS 0 community it seems that most guys who like running it are running it on their own in ABS allowed rooms, maybe thats why i have difficulty in finding dedicated rooms.

 

[shirakawaa]

By the way, speaking of braking settings, PD should really sort them out in GT6. Instead of having:

Front [0-10] in 1 step increment
Rear [0-10] in 1 step increment

(with 0 still having X braking power, and 10 not being strong enough for high downforce cars to lock front brakes at high speeds)

Which is unintuitive and extremely vague and imprecise, it should be:

Brake Balance (front) [0 - 100%] in 1% step increment
Brake Strength [0 - 1000 Nm] in 10 Nm (newton-meters) increment

(more or less as in LFS. Max brake strength should be high enough so that the X2011 is able to lock up its front wheels)

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ive been using 4 2 for most higher downforce race cars and 3 1 for road, but you guys seem to all be running higher values and keeping the front/rear ratio bigger, ill try this tommorow and see how I go.

On the note of an ABS 0 community it seems that most guys who like running it are running it on their own in ABS allowed rooms, maybe thats why i have difficulty in finding dedicated rooms.

There's nothing wrong really racing with no ABS in ABS allowed room, it's a good practice to push yourself to brake harder and be more efficient with it.
I never pick rooms, I'll join any room with ABS allowed as long as they are fair and clean. No ABS only room are scarce as not many will join in, I think it is best to add friends who drive with no ABS and invite them to races.

 

[CJSpencer77]

I hear what your saying having the two together ( strength and ratio ) is odd in my opinion too.

But what i would like to see changed is the ABS setting itself, As you know its a walk in the park to lock brakes with ABS 0 yet i find it impossible with ABS 1, if ABS 0 was how it is now and every + 1 of ABS made it just a little harder to lock your brakes until ABS 10 was impossible to lock up on.

So at say ABS 3 if you stamp the anchors on it will still lock up but not a great deal, then i think people would slowly but surely reduce their ABS.

 

[DaSixSixOne]

My name is DaSixSixOne and I've been sober without ABS for a whole year. Even when hanging out with friends who use it in front of me, I've learned that going without ABS makes my racing life more enjoyable.

There are several threads on proper ABS set up in the forum so search and you'll find some good advice. One thing not often noted is the deceleration diff settings. I find a locked deceleration diff (60) setting makes the car less prone to spinning as both wheels will lock up rather than one.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

PD have their own version of ABS in GT5, it's more like computer assisted brake, ABS:1 will prevent any lock up and most effective when the car is not turning the wheel ( most aggressive ).

The higher the ABS number : ABS:10, the assist will prevent wheel lock up, but the ability to turn the wheel while braking will be preserved. Less aggressive than ABS:1, it actually make the brake a bit less powerful and cars can turn while braking much better. Try it yourself, go to Fuji, pick any race car, set highest BB 10/10, use ABS:1 then ABS:10, do heavy braking at the end of the main straight. Keep the wheel straight until it stops then try them while trying to turn into the corner.

 

[208SpeedGeek]

I love it when appropriate (on racecars or cars that didn't come from the factory with ABS)... Makes it a lot more realistic and challenging. On all my cars that don't use ABS, my brakes are set 2/0 and that works well for my driving style.

 

[Grandi]

Really, imo GT5 is just a different product without ABS since the assist feels like a combined ABS/incrediblestabilitygeneratinggizmo. Also I can't imagine brake pressures of 1-2 would be even nearly sufficient for high performing cars with significant downforce. With e.g. LMPs such as the 908 and R10, i noticed a level of at least 7/5 was required.

 

[pay2021]

0 ABS always here, i hope see you in track!!!

 

[VBR]

It seems to me that when ABS is set to 0, the automatic rev matcher is also disabled. I would probably enjoy racing with ABS at 0 if the rear end didn't keep spinning out when shifting down (particularly to 2nd gear), I find that incredibly annoying.

I drove a Caterham 7 Superlight at a Palmer Sports track day back in 2009 (with no ABS), & even with aggressive early downshifts during braking the rear wheels never once kicked out sideways like it does in GT5, even when I did lock up. In my opinion, PD's version of no ABS is a bit wonky to say the least!

Respect to those who have mastered it in GT5 though! I was watching some guys racing stock RX7's at Monaco with no ABS in an online lobby once, they drove exceptionally clean & well, can't remember who they were but I was very impressed by their skill.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

It seems to me that when ABS is set to 0, the automatic rev matcher is also disabled. I would probably enjoy racing with ABS at 0 if the rear end didn't keep spinning out when shifting down (particularly to 2nd gear), I find that incredibly annoying.

I drove a Caterham 7 Superlight at a Palmer Sports track day back in 2009 (with no ABS), & even with aggressive early downshifts during braking the rear wheels never once kicked out sideways like it does in GT5, even when I did lock up. In my opinion, PD's version of no ABS is a bit wonky to say the least!

Respect to those who have mastered it in GT5 though! I was watching some guys racing stock RX7's at Monaco with no ABS in an online lobby once, they drove exceptionally clean & well, can't remember who they were but I was very impressed by their skill.

I never have such issue with Caterham Seven in GT5 when driving without ABS ... not really sure what you mean, is it rear wheel lock up ? driveline lockup due to over rev when shifting down ? I use stick controller, so far all the cars I have driven in GT5 without ABS are fine, minor lock ups at the front wheel or rear once in a while. You should add me : GTP_Orido, I often host in my lounge no ABS room, we could do some track days or race for fun.

 

[VBR]

...driveline lockup due to over rev when shifting down?

Yes, it's this that I'm reffering to. It was really bad before the 2.07 update, with no ABS the rear would kick out on all downshifts going into turn 1. But when braking without downshifting, there was no problem. After the 2.07 update, the spinning out on downshift was improved, it only seems to happen when changing to 2nd or 1st. My test car is a premium stock Lotus Esprit on Nurburgring GP/F.

When ABS is on, you can shift down very aggressively when turning & use engine brake just like you can with certain cars in real life. But when ABS is off, the rear wheels in RWD cars spin out on downshift, it's as if the automatic rev matcher is off too. The only way to combat this is to heel & toe (G25 with clutch etc), blipping the throttle on downshift, this solves the spin out issue, but I'm pretty useless at doing it well!

Thanks for the offer, but I find driving without ABS really annoying because of these issues. If only we could have ABS off & auto rev matcher on at the same time...

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Yes, it's this that I'm reffering to. It was really bad before the 2.07 update, with no ABS the rear would kick out on all downshifts going into turn 1. But when braking without downshifting, there was no problem. After the 2.07 update, the spinning out on downshift was improved, it only seems to happen when changing to 2nd or 1st. My test car is a premium stock Lotus Esprit on Nurburgring GP/F.

I've never had this issue, the only thing similar to this is that in certain cars trailbraking even slightly sends the rear flying out (GT86 is a good example).

Over revving kick out should only happen when you're using the H-Pattern in GT5.

 

[Spagetti69]

If the car locks up at the rear during downshifting I'm not sure that abs is the issue.

Are your brakes balanced? Try intentionally locking up on a long straight. Should be easy with no ABS. Can telemetry show which tires are losing grip? If so aim to balance the bias so that all 4 tyres lock up simultaneously.

If you then find that the rear is kicking out during downshifting but the front is not braking traction then it's not abs.

Are you turning when this happens? Maybe the LSD is too high.

TBH it sounds as if its just engine lock up. Downshifting too early? I didn't think GT moddled this though.

 

[VBR]

Over revving kick out should only happen when you're using the H-Pattern in GT5.

I'm pretty sure I tested it with both paddle shift & h-pattern before the 2.07 update. I was also recently driving an untuned Cappucino RM with paddle shift & no ABS, the rears spun out on downshift when turning. However, it doesn't happen at all with ABS on.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes, it's this that I'm reffering to. It was really bad before the 2.07 update, with no ABS the rear would kick out on all downshifts going into turn 1. But when braking without downshifting, there was no problem. After the 2.07 update, the spinning out on downshift was improved, it only seems to happen when changing to 2nd or 1st. My test car is a premium stock Lotus Esprit on Nurburgring GP/F.

When ABS is on, you can shift down very aggressively when turning & use engine brake just like you can with certain cars in real life. But when ABS is off, the rear wheels in RWD cars spin out on downshift, it's as if the automatic rev matcher is off too. The only way to combat this is to heel & toe (G25 with clutch etc), blipping the throttle on downshift, this solves the spin out issue, but I'm pretty useless at doing it well!

Thanks for the offer, but I find driving without ABS really annoying because of these issues. If only we could have ABS off & auto rev matcher on at the same time...

Mmm, I see what you mean now, I always blip the throttle when downshifting and I'm using stick. It's hard at first, but I could do it now like a second nature.

In real life, even with cars with ABS, heel and toe is still necessary to prevent such sudden jolt on the driveline. So, I kind of like the fact that in GT5 with no ABS, this is simulated to an extent.

Have you watched my video driving the 458 Italia that I posted earlier in this thread, you could see how I blip the throttle when braking and the car do rotate at the end of the hard braking. I am sure with practice, it will be a habit to blip ( heel and toe on wheel ) and you'll never go back to ABS driving again

We could still do races or track days, you don't have to drive without ABS, I play with everyone, regardless of they use aids, ABS or whatever I like variety.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I suspect a lot of the issue is just due to the ABS sensing the lock-up coming and releasing the brake on one or both rear wheels while the RPM drops quickest right after shifting. I've also often thought the autoblip is just a little too quick - maybe it's tweaked to take full advantage of GT5's slightly wonky ABS. And of course GT5's tires are a bit wonky themselves.

When turning even a tiny bit it can sometimes be an issue if I don't blip the gas myself. But even without touching the throttle it never happens in a straight line, it never happens if I'm off the brake and it never happens if I drop the RPM to a point where it won't climb too high after the shift.

 

[FormulaKimball]

I am sure with practice, it will be a habit to blip ( heel and toe on wheel ) and you'll never go back to ABS driving again

I'm there 👍 Cheers to all of you no-ABS enthusiasts. I love ABS 0 (even on road cars, even in the GT Academy Seasonal events, even when replaying the Licenses), just can't go back to ABS 1. I don't clutch yet (DFGT wheel), but my real car has a 6-speed manual so... The cars are so much more lively and I like consequences for driving poorly or getting lazy with my left foot. Generally like BB set so I can't just slam the pedal yet it won't lock if I barely touch it... you know, a realistic medium like I've had in real life race cars. 4/2 or 3/1 are my usual starting points but some cars like the FGT are more like 5/4 or even 4/4. This is compared with 3/7 as my default on most cars when I used to use ABS 1. And I concur with throttle blips to avoid lockup (at least when going down to 3rd and 2nd), and also, adjusting diff deceleration force and/or rear brakes to get the right balance.

 

[Olegonic]

Here I am. All assists off, ABS OFF since January 2012. G27 is my tool. Modded brake pedal.
I had found it MORE realistic. Slowed a lil my lap times. When cornering, ABS ON works like a kind of assist, stability control. Improves lap time. Good for GTAcademyto be in top 100.
I want to drive a hardest way in GT5. By the way, only tuned cars have Sport Hards tires in my garage. Racecars - Racing Hards. All the rest, Alfa Competezione, 599 Fiorano, SLS AMG maximum Comfort Soft.
Good luck of discovering the Real Driving experience!!!