Accuforce Steering Wheel Thread

[Flying_Kefran]

I have used the AF with Pcars and the results were surprisingly good along with other titles. It showed me that there is more to Pcars physics than many people seem to believe. SC4 allows for incredibly customizable FFB with or without the game-provided FFB. Unlike many competitive Sim-racers, I play mostly for immersion but, the AF can fill both roles amazingly well. I have also used the AF with AC, rF2, LFS, GSCE, and R3E more recently.

Yes, most AF users focus on iRacing but, users of other titles are growing in numbers too. There are a few of us over at WMD and the AC forums. iRacing certainly has a large direct-drive user base and iR provides the best-optimized experience with that type of wheel IMO. I believe that iRacing is the only title to date where developers have worked directly with DD wheel makers to optimize their use. It really highlights just how effective the increased dynamics of the hardware and software combination truly is when you can clearly feel different tire's flex characteristics, curb angle/steepness/etc.

That experience is a revelation in game FFB that raises one's standard regarding what defines "Great FFB". The connection with the car through such a wheel is on a whole new level. Coming from using a G25 or a CSWv1, it's a mind-blowing experience.

Thanks for your feedback.
I am considering the ACW in a pCars only perspective so I am trying to understand if this makes sense. It is pretty clear to me that ideally game developpers need to take into considerations DD wheels in the way the game manages FFB.
Unfortunately, it is not the case for pCars so basically I was wondering if the difference compared to a Fanatec V1/V2 would be as significant as it can be in iracing.

I understand that the ACW experience in pCars is brillant anyway.... so that does not help me in erasing from my mind this stupid idea to buy a 1800 USD wheel !

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Thanks for your feedback.
I am considering the ACW in a pCars only perspective so I am trying to understand if this makes sense. It is pretty clear to me that ideally game developpers need to take into considerations DD wheels in the way the game manages FFB.
Unfortunately, it is not the case for pCars so basically I was wondering if the difference compared to a Fanatec V1/V2 would be as significant as it can be in iracing.

I understand that the ACW experience in pCars is brillant anyway.... so that does not help me in erasing from my mind this stupid idea to buy a 1800 USD wheel !

If you are asking "will the AF make Pcars a better experience?', my answer is "absolutely yes". Is it worth the money? Only you can answer that but, I feel pretty safe in saying that you will be glad you spent the money after you have tried it and have it set up well. Combining it with SimVibe and Dk2 is a phenomenal racing experience. PCars FFB has a lot of adjust-ability but, I have been super pleased with what can be achieved using SC4 FFB only. Either way, the AF is miles better than other wheels I've used - no contest at all.

I have logged a lot of hours testing and playing Pcars and I have no regrets about being involved in it's development. Using the AF with it provided interesting insight and perspective that few can imagine without having tried it using this kind of hardware. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm in sales at SimXperience but, it really is something that all AF users that I've communicated with agree on; the AF/SC4 combo is Awesome! I haven't had a chance to try any OSW wheels yet but, that would certainly be an interesting comparison.

 

[TRANCE09]

What's the word on the flex of the shaft hub and quick release? Seems to flex noticeably from sim racing garage's video review.

 

[Gunstar]

The word is that Barry probably didn't help anything by disassembling and reassembling the whole thing. But it's really not an issue it looks like...

from Pat Dotson at SimXperience:
Great review Barry.

It's funny that this flex deal has become the focus. I've never heard a single comment about it before your video.

The Accuforce is designed so that someone can pull themselves up out of the seat by the steering wheel without damaging the unit. We see that a lot in public event settings, and other lesser wheels will break. The Accuforce can take it. I think you said yourself in the video that you only barely noticed it while driving. The flex has not been an issue because it is perpendicular to the steering rotation axis. Delivery of the force feedback to the driver's hands is not affected by that flex.

A few comments about the video....

First off, for the home user, the only dis-assembly of the Accuforce that is supported is associated with installing other steering wheels on the Accuforce button box/QR assembly. No further disassembly is recommended without explicit guidance from SimXperience staff.

- The three "extra" screws on the steering wheel have an important function. They hold the horn assembly to the steering wheel.

- You don't have to loosen the "pivot point" screws to move the upper button modules. Only the back screws need to be loosened.

- The shifter paddles do have two mounting positions. They can move inward from the default position. There is a clearance hole for the adjustment screw when using the inner mounting position.

- Don't try to completely remove the adapter mounting screw as that will damage the adapter threads. Only back the screw out enough to loosen the adapter, just like Barry did in the video.

- DO NOT take the front plate/motor off as shown in the video. The rear plate should be removed first. Otherwise, cable damage can easily result. I imagine Barry had to remove the back plate during re-assembly to get the cables back into position.

- The intent of the adjustable mounting bracket bolts is, as Barry did in the video, to use only two bolts to hold each bracket to the wheel. The third bolt is used to attach the bracket to the mounting surface. With two bolts holding each bracket to the wheel, only one bolt per bracket is needed to securely attach to a mounting surface.

 

[TRANCE09]

Well I think it seemed obvious the flex had nothing to do with the disassembly and is simply inherent in the design. It's not a deal breaker, it's only a very small fault really. Anyway If need be it can be remedied in the future with a redesigned tighter fitting shaft hub/QR.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

The only place I have noticed flex is in the wheel itself. The QR is very stout and I haven't noticed any movement what so ever during use. I only noticed the wheel flex when watching someone else using the wheel at high force settings. Replacing the wheel with a stiffer-spoked wheel should work fine to minimize the flex but, I don't feel it's needed. If it provides you with better piece-of-mind, then it may be worth doing.

If mega force and strength are one's priority, it's probably best to go with the Bodnar or hand-picked OSW parts anyway. It's a matter of spending more money for the Bodnar or spending much more time & effort to build a DIY OSW. I think the AF will still have some advantages in terms of tune-ability and customization though. Head to head comparisons should reveal just how much.

Of course, the other option would be to go with the AF DIY version and add your choice of QR, Button-box and wheel. The Team version of the AF can be customized and built to higher force specs as well.

I feel that SimXperience has done a great job of providing a dynamic Direct-drive option at a reasonable cost. They clearly have invested a lot of time and effort into developing a complete tuned package that should last a lifetime. If you need or want more, it's likely to cost more or come with it's own caveats IMO.

 

[HoiHman]

Here's the comment of Barry Rowland for those who don't have Iracing

Hey guys! Glad everyone is having such a good time with my review! LOL!

Now I normally don't respond much to comments on my my reviews in these
forums. But I guess I need to try and clear some things up about the
flex in the wheel assembly you see it this video.

Firstly, the video of the wheels flex was taken before anything was disassembled.
I have a process in place for conducting reviews. I will always install and
test any piece of hardware I get for review before anything else is done to
it. I do for a couple of reasons.

One is to try the hardware and make sure it is functioning as designed. As
I may have to make a warranty claim if is not. And I won't have a warranty
if I disassemble it first. The next is I use the time to test framing, and lighting
on the subject of the review. Make any of the changes I need and take
notes to use when shooting driving footage.

So, what you see in the review is the wheel straight out of the box.
Just because I publish a video in a certain sequence, does not
mean that's how each piece was shot. The magic of editing is
a great thing.

Even so, the idea that I somehow missed something to cause the flex
myself is highly unlikely, as I would have had to continuously missed
something every time I took it apart and put it back together. And, you can
see from the video, the section of the assembly where the flex is occurring
the most, is arguably the least complicated. There are only 6 bolts holding the
the whole thing together. Each with a spacer, washer, and lock washer.
3 bolts for the button pod and 3 bolts for the steering wheel. Hard to make
a mistake here guys.

When I push in and out on the wheels rim on opposing sides the steel in
the wheel spokes and rim will flex, once the range of that flex movement
breaks the plane of the spacers supporting the 3 bolts holding the rim
to the QR, if pushes against the pod and causing it to flex also.

I was thinking if you guys have this wheel, or any wheel for that matter,
and have a decent video camera, you could conduct your own test by
shooting some video from the side angle and see what you get. One thing
is for sure, the flex in hand doesn't seem as bad as the video shows it.
Maybe because the perspectives of you actually sitting in your seat and
flexing the wheel, and then actually watching it on video are
so different.

Really guys, I have no dog in this fight. I am lucky enough to be in the
position to try whichever wheel I want. If I don't like it, I just sell it on. My only
concern is how I am going to convey what I find, accurately and truthfully, to
folks who want to watch my video's. I don't have sponsors, and
don't give endorsements. I won't even let YouTube run ads on my videos.
I do this mostly out of my own curiosity, and make the videos so like minded folks
can see it too. So if you see something on one of my video's you can rest assured
it is for real. I have no reason to do it any other way.

Right, so I hope this helps you guys understand how this flex was discovered
and covered. Really, this review is about the whole package that the
Accuforce brings to the table. A very good package indeed, especially at
this price point. Not just one small bit on wheel flex. Ok, maybe I didn't
cover enough on the software, but hey! I'm a hardware guy! I might see
what I can do on the upcoming comparison video currently under production.
But the SC4 program has so many features. It would make for a very long
video. I think it would be done better justice by the SimXperience developer
team doing a detailed video on all the SC4 features and what each one does.
They know it better than anyone else ever will.

Cheers!

First of all : He did an excellent job with his review, as always. He's always very detailed in his reviews, but something doesn't add up:

In his comment he stated that the video of the flex was taped before he took the wheel appart.

After watching a lot of his excellent and thorough reviews, i just can't believe that he wouldn't mention the play when he took the hub of and he didn't try to investigate the cause of the play in the first part of the review (which supposedly was taped after he discovered the flex)

Anyway, i'm seriously considering ordering a Momo Mod 30 tommorow to replace the AF stock wheel as soon as it arrives

 

[Gunstar]

HA! Isn't that an interesting development.

 

[fatkrakr]

I think people are making a bigger issue out of it then it really is. The flex in the wheel rim isn't good, but not horrible and the rest is very minimal. Ever noticed the play of the quick releases in some real race cars?

 

[HoiHman]

I think people are making a bigger issue out of it then it really is. The flex in the wheel rim isn't good, but not horrible and the rest is very minimal. Ever noticed the play of the quick releases in some real race cars?

The flex in the wheel rim doesn't bother me at all. This can be solved by buying a high end race wheel like a genuine momo. The movement between the hub and the motor shaft is another issue. This IS something that concerns me and could be caused by the 5mm bolt, which secures the hub, not being tightend to the specified torque. (which i hope is the case here)

Lot's of people run their Club Sport Wheels without the special bolt, i ALWAYS use it..

 

[Dean Ogurek]

I agree, I think that the flex issue is causing some fixation for many. A certain amount of flex may even be a good thing over having something that is too rigid - we'd need an engineer to know for sure and I believe SimX has already gone through that process. The way in which the flex is shown is also not a natural function of the wheel; it's about the rotational forces, not torquing the wheel towards and away from the body.

I'm sure they could attach a pry-bar to the wheels and compare the amount of force needed to break or bend parts to determine the weakest links and then redesign/repair/repeat continuously until they have something that weighs two tons, resembles a large truck and can tolerate prolonged abuse from an deranged Silver-back Gorilla too.

 

[HoiHman]

Because this the most anticipated wheel ever, I guess a lot people expected a bullet proof wheel, build like a tank

A little bit of flex doesn't worry me that much, as long there isn't any play. I'm more worried about the USB passthrough connection on the quick release. I just hope i my DIY formula rim (with a DSD32 micro) will work as expected on the AF

How the USB connection on the wheel for you Dean? I read a lot about people having issues with 3th party rims and displays running from the USB connection on the button box.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Because this the most anticipated wheel ever, I guess a lot people expected a bullet proof wheel, build like a tank

A little bit of flex doesn't worry me that much, as long there isn't any play. I'm more worried about the USB passthrough connection on the quick release. I just hope i my DIY formula rim (with a DSD32 micro) will work as expected on the AF

How the USB connection on the wheel for you Dean? I read a lot about people having issues with 3th party rims and displays running from the USB connection on the button box.

I haven't tried using the USB connection at all but, I know that there have been some concerns regarding the slip-ring performance from some users. I haven't followed any of those issues for some time so I'm not up to date.

 

[super_gt]

 

[vasiliflame]

HI guys bit of a long shot , I like to support this wheel in a project I am creating In the unity 5 engine. I have only just started to add logitech wheel support. oculus rift will be coming very soon to unity so I hope to add that aswell. But it's not possible for me to afford this wheel at this time.

So I wanted to ask if someone is willing to help me and do a sorta beta test ?

Bit of early footage if interested

 

[HoiHman]

There's a limited stock of leather wheel rims for the AF available. I already changed my order yesterday.

 

[LeMansAid]

I am still looking for more detailed feedbacks on using this wheel with Project Cars as most available videos focus on iracing.

From what I understand PCars and iRacing are actually similar in shying away from canned ffb effects. Using SimX ffb should yield equal or greater performance anyway though. DiRT Rally ffb is apparently shining for Accuforce owners, in stark contrast to those of us stuck with the otherwise available option.

 

[Paulo1966]

Hi Dean,

I read with interest your beta review and see you are active on the forums re Accuforce wheel.

I recently received my AF wheel (just a week ago) am vastly impressed with the power and fidelity from having turned only a couple of hours or laps and don't feel I have scratched the surface regards the possible optimal setup in AC. I am also looking forward to the release of Project Cars on Thursday here in AUS. I wonder, given your own experiences with the AF wheel and what you have learned of the wheel through the beta process , could you share some ideal settings for SC4/game ffb mixes for Assetto and Pcars, to give me a solid baseline to work from. I would really appreciate some direction.

Thanks in advance

Paul

If you are asking "will the AF make Pcars a better experience?', my answer is "absolutely yes". Is it worth the money? Only you can answer that but, I feel pretty safe in saying that you will be glad you spent the money after you have tried it and have it set up well. Combining it with SimVibe and Dk2 is a phenomenal racing experience. PCars FFB has a lot of adjust-ability but, I have been super pleased with what can be achieved using SC4 FFB only. Either way, the AF is miles better than other wheels I've used - no contest at all.

I have logged a lot of hours testing and playing Pcars and I have no regrets about being involved in it's development. Using the AF with it provided interesting insight and perspective that few can imagine without having tried it using this kind of hardware. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm in sales at SimXperience but, it really is something that all AF users that I've communicated with agree on; the AF/SC4 combo is Awesome! I haven't had a chance to try any OSW wheels yet but, that would certainly be an interesting comparison.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Hi Dean,

I read with interest your beta review and see you are active on the forums re Accuforce wheel.

I recently received my AF wheel (just a week ago) am vastly impressed with the power and fidelity from having turned only a couple of hours or laps and don't feel I have scratched the surface regards the possible optimal setup in AC. I am also looking forward to the release of Project Cars on Thursday here in AUS. I wonder, given your own experiences with the AF wheel and what you have learned of the wheel through the beta process , could you share some ideal settings for SC4/game ffb mixes for Assetto and Pcars, to give me a solid baseline to work from. I would really appreciate some direction.

Thanks in advance

Paul

Congratulations on the arrival of the AF!

Prior to using the AF, AC was a favorite for game FFB; I was using a CSWv1. AC has some issues with the telemetry data being used to create the SC4 FFB effects (As stated by Frederick of LifeOn2 FFB controllers and Berney Villars of SimXperience). This creates some undesirable side-effects in SC4 FFB with AC in the form of FFB spikes and rather dull feeling FFB. The good news is that the game's FFB works very good with the AccuForce although, the Self-Aligning-Torque tends to be quite strong. For that reason, I recommend using lower force settings, either in-game or in SC4. Also be sure that you use either game FFB or SC4 FFB Steering Foundation - not both at the same time (true with any title).

It's unclear if Kunos will address the FFB data issues in the future. I have posted my findings in the AC Support Forums but, have not received any response to date. It would certainly be best to have the option to utilize SC4 FFB to it's full potential but, the game FFB is still quite decent IMO and the AccuForce certainly takes advantage of that.

The Game-FFB in Pcars is very customizable but, not very intuitive to set up. It requires some study and experimentation to get good results with any wheel. The SC4 FFB for Pcars works excellent, maybe the best of any title I've tried in terms of overall adjust-ability - especially in terms of bump effects. It's also quite easy to dial in or out the desired level of Self-Aligning-Torque. If you visit the SimX "Owners Club" and search for AF game setups of profiles to use in SC4, you can find some useful user settings to try.

I also recommend using the SC4 FFB Output Tuning Wizard to create a baseline setup based on telemetry data. From there, you can experiment with various effect-settings and learn exactly what they do by feel. You can isolate each effect by toggling other effects on/off.

iRacing is likely the most optimized title to use with the AF to learn what is possible in FFB effects but, the AF works great with rF2 and GSCE as well although, the latter lacks some telemetry data to drive certain effects in SC4. For that reason, I use the Game FFB in GSCE and then add the SC4 Engine-vibes to that. Fortunately, GSCE game FFB is really great at providing subtle bump effects with very revealing grip-loss feel at the wheel. rF2 is similar in that regard but, I can also achieve good results using SC4 FFB with it.

RRRE can also work well with the AF but, at this time - you want to turn off the game's canned effects (engine vibes, brake effects) as they will cause synthesizer-like sounds with the AccuForce. I didn't do much testing with RRRE but, I was not able to get telemetry data to log in SC4 so I only used the game FFB.

I hope that some of this is useful to you and others using the AF. It's a fantastic wheel that will redefine one's definition of good FFB, whether for competition, immersion or both.

 

[skazz]

RRRE can also work well with the AF but, at this time - you want to turn off the game's canned effects (engine vibes, brake effects) as they will cause synthesizer-like sounds with the AccuForce.

Just as reference: Those canned effects give the same problem on a Thrustmaster wheel. It's not just an Accuforce problem.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Just as reference: Those canned effects give the same problem on a Thrustmaster wheel. It's not just an Accuforce problem.

Interesting, that certainly adds lot of users to the group being affected.

 

[oqvist]

Just as reference: Those canned effects give the same problem on a Thrustmaster wheel. It's not just an Accuforce problem.

Problem and problem? Those effects make my pedals vibrate like I have a V8 behind them absolutely brilliant . I have never felt that in any other sim it´s unique to racerooms ffb and it´s not even subtle I don´t get any side tones but I do have a steel cockpit not much that can resonate easilly. Can´t wait to see what my OSW or whatever can achieve

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Problem and problem? Those effects make my pedals vibrate like I have a V8 behind them absolutely brilliant . I have never felt that in any other sim it´s unique to racerooms ffb and it´s not even subtle I don´t get any side tones but I do have a steel cockpit not much that can resonate easilly. Can´t wait to see what my OSW or whatever can achieve

The noise that the AF makes with the canned effects are basically like synthesized music or touch-tones and they are quite loud. I did add a ButtKicker Gamer2 to my office chair along with some pucks, good vibes!👍

 

[Paulo1966]

Congratulations on the arrival of the AF!

Prior to using the AF, AC was a favorite for game FFB; I was using a CSWv1. AC has some issues with the telemetry data being used to create the SC4 FFB effects (As stated by Frederick of LifeOn2 FFB controllers and Berney Villars of SimXperience). This creates some undesirable side-effects in SC4 FFB with AC in the form of FFB spikes and rather dull feeling FFB. The good news is that the game's FFB works very good with the AccuForce although, the Self-Aligning-Torque tends to be quite strong. For that reason, I recommend using lower force settings, either in-game or in SC4. Also be sure that you use either game FFB or SC4 FFB Steering Foundation - not both at the same time (true with any title).

It's unclear if Kunos will address the FFB data issues in the future. I have posted my findings in the AC Support Forums but, have not received any response to date. It would certainly be best to have the option to utilize SC4 FFB to it's full potential but, the game FFB is still quite decent IMO and the AccuForce certainly takes advantage of that.

The Game-FFB in Pcars is very customizable but, not very intuitive to set up. It requires some study and experimentation to get good results with any wheel. The SC4 FFB for Pcars works excellent, maybe the best of any title I've tried in terms of overall adjust-ability - especially in terms of bump effects. It's also quite easy to dial in or out the desired level of Self-Aligning-Torque. If you visit the SimX "Owners Club" and search for AF game setups of profiles to use in SC4, you can find some useful user settings to try.

I also recommend using the SC4 FFB Output Tuning Wizard to create a baseline setup based on telemetry data. From there, you can experiment with various effect-settings and learn exactly what they do by feel. You can isolate each effect by toggling other effects on/off.

iRacing is likely the most optimized title to use with the AF to learn what is possible in FFB effects but, the AF works great with rF2 and GSCE as well although, the latter lacks some telemetry data to drive certain effects in SC4. For that reason, I use the Game FFB in GSCE and then add the SC4 Engine-vibes to that. Fortunately, GSCE game FFB is really great at providing subtle bump effects with very revealing grip-loss feel at the wheel. rF2 is similar in that regard but, I can also achieve good results using SC4 FFB with it.

RRRE can also work well with the AF but, at this time - you want to turn off the game's canned effects (engine vibes, brake effects) as they will cause synthesizer-like sounds with the AccuForce. I didn't do much testing with RRRE but, I was not able to get telemetry data to log in SC4 so I only used the game FFB.

I hope that some of this is useful to you and others using the AF. It's a fantastic wheel that will redefine one's definition of good FFB, whether for competition, immersion or both.

Thanks Dean

Not sure where on the simxperience forum to find setups for AFW in different games.

In AC, do you have a default setup for AC controller setup in game? Do you add any AC canned effects or turn slip, road and kerbs to zero.

For AF setup in SC4, can you provide a screenshot of a good baseline setup for ACorsa, including any damper/inertia tweaks.... I would appreciate any favorite preset info you have settled on from your own experiences.

Maybe I'll focus on assetto and progress from there. Thanks again for your post and support

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Thanks Dean

Not sure where on the simxperience forum to find setups for AFW in different games.
Under Manage Sim Setup Buttons; New/Get Form Owners Club Online

In AC, do you have a default setup for AC controller setup in game? Do you add any AC canned effects or turn slip, road and kerbs to zero. Use the Gain setting you want but, I have Dampening and Spring @ Zero / Canned effects to suit your preference

For AF setup in SC4, can you provide a screenshot of a good baseline setup for ACorsa, including any damper/inertia tweaks.... I would appreciate any favorite preset info you have settled on from your own experiences. I don't use anything in SC4 other than the Game FFB, Game Smoothing, and Engine Vibes with AC. The SC4 Output Wizard should provide a good baseline setup but, it will be based on the telemetry data and the settings you have enabled in SC4.

Maybe I'll focus on assetto and progress from there. Thanks again for your post and support

See my answers in Bold above.
The great thing about experimenting with FFB in other titles is that I made significant discoveries about what is possible. I then knew what I wanted to achieve with each title and how I could get the most out of each one to suit my taste. It takes some time and enjoying yourself along the way by playing in-between testing setups can help keep your interest fueled.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

One interesting thing to note regarding Pcars FFB output: Berney Villars of SimX said that the Pcars FFB API is the 3rd best of 30 games that they support even though it's missing suspension output. I imagine that iRacing is #1, rF2 is #2.

 

[Paulo1966]

See my answers in Bold above.
The great thing about experimenting with FFB in other titles is that I made significant discoveries about what is possible. I then knew what I wanted to achieve with each title and how I could get the most out of each one to suit my taste. It takes some time and enjoying yourself along the way by playing in-between testing setups can help keep your interest fueled.

Thanks Dean - will try this out tonite with AC - cheers

 

[K_Soze]

One interesting thing to note regarding Pcars FFB output: Berney Villars of SimX said that the Pcars FFB API is the 3rd best of 30 games that they support even though it's missing suspension output. I imagine that iRacing is #1, rF2 is #2.

Nope, Mario Kart Wii and FZero

 

[Gunstar]

Hahahaha!! I want to play F-Zero with Accuforce!

The GameCube F-Zero GX actually supported the Logitech FFB wheel for the GC, but it was crazy hard to play with it.

 

[emu]

Simmers,

Could someone that own Accuforce wheel (system) clarify if the case use the same mounting holes as T500 rs? not the mounting bracket