Accuforce Steering Wheel Thread
- Thread starter super_gt
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- HoiHman
- HoiHman
@oqvist Thanks for sharing (i already read the first part on Iracing)
The whole comparison confirms my initial thoughts: The higher power DD (OSW) wheels are for the "big guys".
These are the guys that use the HE-Ultimates pedals with 130kg brake force. I'm more a guy for the HE-Pros (55kg) which are pretty awesome too. I'm pretty confident that a lot of common OSW users will tune down their wheel and will operate it around or below the AF strength for daily use.
For those high powered high downforce cars which Bedo mentioned in his comparison i use my 270mm BMW rim
This baby turns the AF into a real beast. I can't imagine running it any higher than 80% on the "responsive mode" (peaks allowed)
Offcourse i would have like the AccuForce to have more power, to show off on the forums and to my friends. But in reality i would probably run it at a lower percentage setting than i have now for racing comfort, but also safety reasons. Having a open D-shaped wheel at high forces can be quite dangerous.
I take the tunability in SC4 any day above extra torque of the OSW. (but i have been a SC user for years)
@kikie I think you HAVE to feel it first before you can judge. The DD FFB gives you so much more info about the grip level of the car and really adds a lot of immersion.
And if you think there is a center spring, than you definately have the wrong idea about driving with the AccuForce. It's certainly something completely different and so much more than a simple stronger centerspring.
Catching slides with DD high FFB setting is so much easier and faster. Again you have to try it first to judge it.
@K_Soze : That's what the "steering force feedback foundation" effect up to a certain level actually does in SC4. If you run the SFFF solely all the fake effects are not present. Idealy you should feel the other effects like bumps through the chassis. This means you need a least a high end D-Box rig to compensate for what you are missing through the wheel.
The whole comparison confirms my initial thoughts: The higher power DD (OSW) wheels are for the "big guys".
These are the guys that use the HE-Ultimates pedals with 130kg brake force. I'm more a guy for the HE-Pros (55kg) which are pretty awesome too. I'm pretty confident that a lot of common OSW users will tune down their wheel and will operate it around or below the AF strength for daily use.
For those high powered high downforce cars which Bedo mentioned in his comparison i use my 270mm BMW rim
This baby turns the AF into a real beast. I can't imagine running it any higher than 80% on the "responsive mode" (peaks allowed)
Offcourse i would have like the AccuForce to have more power, to show off on the forums and to my friends. But in reality i would probably run it at a lower percentage setting than i have now for racing comfort, but also safety reasons. Having a open D-shaped wheel at high forces can be quite dangerous.
I take the tunability in SC4 any day above extra torque of the OSW. (but i have been a SC user for years)
@kikie I think you HAVE to feel it first before you can judge. The DD FFB gives you so much more info about the grip level of the car and really adds a lot of immersion.
And if you think there is a center spring, than you definately have the wrong idea about driving with the AccuForce. It's certainly something completely different and so much more than a simple stronger centerspring.
Catching slides with DD high FFB setting is so much easier and faster. Again you have to try it first to judge it.
All I want is a wheel able to output a wanted torque so the input from the sim will not be "subjective". The car movement give a torque and force on the tire contact patch and the reaction of the rubber create a Mz torque and a Fy force that is the only thing you should output to the steering column. We need a FFB protocol revolution
@K_Soze : That's what the "steering force feedback foundation" effect up to a certain level actually does in SC4. If you run the SFFF solely all the fake effects are not present. Idealy you should feel the other effects like bumps through the chassis. This means you need a least a high end D-Box rig to compensate for what you are missing through the wheel.
I don't judge the direct drive servo wheels at all. I only said that I don't like FFB coming through the wheel. It's unrealistic.@kikie I think you HAVE to feel it first before you can judge. The DD FFB gives you so much more info about the grip level of the car and really adds a lot of immersion.
And if you think there is a center spring, than you definately have the wrong idea about driving with the AccuForce. It's certainly something completely different and so much more than a simple stronger centerspring.
Catching slides with DD high FFB setting is so much easier and faster. Again you have to try it first to judge it.
I don't have the wrong idea about the AF at all. I never said anything to suggest that. As a matter of fact, I said that want an OSW because of the realistic feel (read about it, never tried it myself) and the, almost lack of, latency.
I don't need FFB to know what the car is doing in a game. I have so much basic car control experience in real life, here (10 years and the last time was in februari this year, here) that it is an automatic behavior, a second nature as you will to control a car. I only need to see what is happening ingame to the car to start catching a slide. I don't always succeed because I sometimes over-countersteer which makes the slide even worse (in the opposite direction). Instead of stabilizing the car, I make the slide worse.
Believe me if I say that I peronally don't need those fake FFB data to enjoy a racing game or to know what a car is doing.
The only thing I need FFB for is to have some resistance (like the mechanical resistance in a real car, that is all).
I sometimes even drive with the SRW S1 steering wheel, which doesn't have FFB and it doesn't bother me at all and I can still catch slides with this wheel as well, although it is not easy as this wheel is only 360° lock to lock. Overcompensating when countersteering is very easy with a 360° wheel.
As an example: I set the FFB in the T300RS controlpanel to maximum 40%, overall strenght to maximum 50% and all the other settings to 0%.
Ingame, in pCars and AC FFB less than 50% and sometimes it still feel like it is too much. For my personally, FFB is an annoying fake and unrealistic feeling. I can definitely live without it.
What is more important is a motion chair with at least 180° yaw and a triple monitor setup. That and the visual cues is enough for me to know what the car is doing. Oh, I would also like to have a true to life FFB brake pedal (>>> ABS).
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- 532
- Canada
No I haven't but I've seen enough videos on youtube that it is not for me. It a personal preference.
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- Central Wisconsin
Pcars is harder IMO but, I dug into the SC4 settings and was able to feel the effect of each setting quite clearly. Pcars FFB is much harder to detect the results. Fortunately, SC4 FFB works much better than Pcars FFB anyway and the data sent to SC4 seems to be one of the most effective in terms of FFB adjustments (YMMV).
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- HoiHman
- HoiHman
Pcars is harder and also a lot more work. With SC4 it's much easier to create a very good base profile, run a couple of laps and apply autotune. This gives you a good base profile for every car in that class. In pcars you have to create a FFB profile for every single car.
When you have a good autotuned base profile, you can adjust it on the fly to your own liking and also apply filters. You can duplicate it and use the profile for other cars, adjust the intensity of the AF and change to different strength modes (all ingame on the fly)
It's awesome...
In the last couple of weeks SimXperience have been working very hard on further improving the Accuforce.
A couple of weeks ago they already released a beta which introduced a new "responsive mode". Now Accuforce users can download a new experimental version of simcommander 4 which features the "boost effect" on the simxperience users forum http://simxperience.com/Community/O...uning-Feedback-Test---Phase-3?m=8574#post8574 This new mode will give the AF some additional strength to compete better with the stronger OSW wheels.
In a week or so the final version will be available through a normal update of simcommander.
When you have a good autotuned base profile, you can adjust it on the fly to your own liking and also apply filters. You can duplicate it and use the profile for other cars, adjust the intensity of the AF and change to different strength modes (all ingame on the fly)
It's awesome...
In the last couple of weeks SimXperience have been working very hard on further improving the Accuforce.
A couple of weeks ago they already released a beta which introduced a new "responsive mode". Now Accuforce users can download a new experimental version of simcommander 4 which features the "boost effect" on the simxperience users forum http://simxperience.com/Community/O...uning-Feedback-Test---Phase-3?m=8574#post8574 This new mode will give the AF some additional strength to compete better with the stronger OSW wheels.
In a week or so the final version will be available through a normal update of simcommander.
- 2,858
- Australia
Force feedback is not universal or predefined though. It does what it's told to do. Yes, of course there is unrealistic ffb, but a completely dead wheel while driving is also going to be unrealistic.
What is "etc."? The motor is a huge part of the cost when going with OSW, a part that according to you, you don't even really need.
The specific effects and not so much levels are what should be most important to you. Unfortunately weight shift can't be removed from Assetto's ffb, but with PCARS you should be able to set up and run without any effects that would not be felt through a real steering wheel.
By the way, I know that there is at least one ECCI 6000 with 900 degrees of rotation out there. I expect that being designed with no ffb it would be better than any ffb wheel running zero ffb. John from ECCI gives stellar customer service, so an email to him about 900 degrees wouldn't hurt maybe?
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SAT torque will be fixed in 1.2 Stefano confirmed in the latest video.
I never said that I'm using a "dead" wheel. There is still some resistance. I have been using the SRW S1 for the last one and a half week and it is a non FFB wheel. Well, it doesn't bother me at all. I prefer the SRW S1 over strong FFB.
Too bad that my SRW S1 died today. Now I don't even have a wheel anymore. T300RS broken after having been used for only one month and today the SRW S1.
Etc = and so on from the French et cetera.
Well, I have been wondering myself if I need an OSW or not. AFAIK, the DD servo wheel are very accurate, the electronics and firmware/software makes it very direct, with almost no latency. It is not only the FFB that makes these wheels so good. There is more to it.
The DD servo motor is more than just some accurate FFB.
I'm not interested in Thrusmaster anymore. I don't trust Fanatec at all and I don't want a G29. So there is not much else than an OSW.
Nope! Definitely not. The specific effects is what I'm trying to get rid off. Just some resistance in the wheel just like in a real car is enough for me. I mean, the feeling that a wheel is heavy, the feeling of the contact from the tires with the road.
I removed it by eliminating the centering spring in the TM controlpanel.
Didn't know that. Thanks.
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- Australia
To me it is dead if it never moves on it's own. Obviously it's ideal when that movement is logical according to what the car is doing on road.
Hehe, no I know what etc. means, I just didn't know what you wanted it to represent in your post.
Direct drive (DD) - Basically, you want the first "D", but not the second. Lower end wheels don't have ratios by choice, it's by necessity. A 1:1 wheel is in no way dependent on having a motor.
And what about when the wheel should be realistically light? You are the master of what you want, but not the master of what is real. A wheel simply with linear damping might be what you want, but is never going to be realistic. Also, just turning down ffb across the board and not addressing what is realistic or not, only serves to give a watered down state of un-realism. What I'm saying is that if the goal is realism, you should be banishing the unrealistic effects and keeping and tuning the realistic ones. Braking and accelerating for example affects how heavy the wheel should be, while weight shift does not directly affect the wheel. If all you do is reduce those effects by the same amount, you are further from realism than if you simply eradicate the weight shift effect.
I'm not interested in Thrusmaster anymore. I don't trust Fanatec at all and I don't want a G29. So there is not much else than an OSW.
Ah, well there is a hint in this thread title. Hehe.
With the amount of options for ffb with the Accuforce, I'd have thought it would be the perfect fit for you. You might even find that you prefer realistic after all*.
* Being a bit cheeky here - but also correct.
Not to me it isn't. But it all comes down to personal preferences. With my settings, there is still a very little bit FFB, almost like in a real car. I mainly adjust the settings in the TM controlpanel. Apparently, the opposite what everybody else does.
But... every wheel that I know of has a ratio (belt or gears) because they use small motors. I don't know if there is Direct wheel on the market, instead of a Direct Drive wheel, on the market.
It's never going to be realistic, unless the technology changes dramatically. I'm fantasizing now but what if they make a car simulator with real suspension and wheels? Wheels that are turning and your steering wheel is directly connected, just like in a real car (rack and pinion?). There should also have to be a powersteering thing, like in a real car. The whole real life setup should be connected to your computer as a steering wheel is now (by electronics, firmware/software) and the whole real life setup should be controlled by the FFB data of the car ingame. As I said, I'm only dreaming/fantasizing. Also, the ABS of the real life setup should be controlled by the FFB data coming from the game.
I try to approach realisme as much as possible.
Yes, the Accuforce. Well this wheel is out of the question simply because it too expensive. >>>> Shipping and import from the US to Belgium.[/QUOTE]
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- 2,858
- Australia
Realism in objective terms certainly does not come down to personal preference.
That's a real shame as it could well be the wheel that suits you perfectly, given all of the tuning options. I imagine that once you experienced smooth and subtle variable resistance, you would not want to use linear resistance.
Be mindful that the praise for the OSW in the DD wheel comparison video was largely based on the want for the opposite of what you want - a fast, twitchy, and powerful wheel. But, if it's the only way for you to get a low latency wheel......
I wasn't talking about realisme in this particular case, I was talking about FFB settings and that is subjective and a personal preference. If it is objective as you said, than there wouldn't be FFB settings in the controlpanel and the games.
I'll better export myself to the US than.
But as you already mentioned, I agree with you that I actually don't need a DD servo wheel. A huge part of the advantages of a DD wheel is gone when I don't want to use strong FFB settings. There is still the low latency and the realistic feel every owner is talking about and another advantage over a toy wheel what I forgot to mention is, the size of the rim. You can put a 35cm (14 inch) real rim (wheel or whatever it is called) on a DD servo. You can't do that with a new toy wheel because that will void the warranty if you do so anyway. Plus the shifter paddles don't match anymore and it is still difficult to find the correct wheel to put on a T300RS > one that will fit with the buttons of the T300RS.
Another proof that I don't really need a DD wheel is the fact that I even enjoy playing with a simple SRW S1 wheel. Not for long but I don't mind using it from time to time. (not anymore because it is broken, kaputt, dead etc... ).
But there is almost no other solution as I don't trust Thrustmaster anymore. Fanatec, well I have never trusted that company in the first place. I don't want to get( my third) a G27 and the G29 is too expensive.
So what alternative is there for me besides an OSW wheel? Maybe stop playing games and do some trackdays maybe?
The ECCI 6000 with 900° is too expensive as well to import to Belgium.
- 532
- Canada
have you ever owned a fanatec product to have said "trust issues" ?
No, it is actually the reliability that I have issues with. Also, in the beginning there were too many people complaining about not being helped when their Fanatec hardware was broken.
The CSP v2 base is too expensive. You can have an Ollie OSW for not much more money.
I don't know anymore. I'll find a solution, I almost always do.
The CSP v2 base is too expensive. You can have an Ollie OSW for not much more money.
I don't know anymore. I'll find a solution, I almost always do.
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Never Actually owned a Fanatec product, Check.
- 1,326
- SC
Dude, somewhere along the line you got a Madcatz wheel (or the like) and that has branded the image of what forcefeedback is like in sim racing. I seriously doubt you have ever tried anything with decent forcefeedback or you wouldn't be so quick to discard its potential for realism... before you reply that you've driven a Logitec G-twentywhatever, go somewhere you can try a T500, Clubsport, or even better AN ACCUFORCE! THEN, give us your opinion about why Forcefeedback sucks. Right now, nobody understands where you're coming from, we're trying, but you see... Forcefeedback is just awesome WHEN ITS RIGHT, theres no beating it.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=187 This makes them stand alone pedals and ups the resolution.
- 1,244
Thankyou fatkrakr for the link/info.
As I,ve only just ordered the Accuforce I'm expecting to wait till around December for delivery.
By that time I hope to have these https://protosimtech.com/ ready to go.
As I,ve only just ordered the Accuforce I'm expecting to wait till around December for delivery.
By that time I hope to have these https://protosimtech.com/ ready to go.
- 84
- Central Wisconsin
- 1,166
- The Netherlands
- HoiHman
- HoiHman
I just went for the HE-pros. They are awesome.
In the last couple of weeks i had 2 "racing enthousiasts" over to try the accuforce and they both ordered one.
I going on holiday today and i'm already looking forward to that magic moment when getting back in the rig the first time after 2 weeks.
I just know i will be amazed with the AF again
In the last couple of weeks i had 2 "racing enthousiasts" over to try the accuforce and they both ordered one.
I going on holiday today and i'm already looking forward to that magic moment when getting back in the rig the first time after 2 weeks.
I just know i will be amazed with the AF again
Can I be the third race enthousiast to try out the Accuforce?I just went for the HE-pros. They are awesome.
In the last couple of weeks i had 2 "racing enthousiasts" over to try the accuforce and they both ordered one.
I going on holiday today and i'm already looking forward to that magic moment when getting back in the rig the first time after 2 weeks.
I just know i will be amazed with the AF again
- 532
- Canada
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