Accuforce Steering Wheel Thread

[DarinSRT]

I 1000% refuse to deal with the likes like SimX. and you would be surprised how quick he gets the mods to remove said posts/Threads. Main reason Darrin banned me from ISR, Couldn't take the TRUTH about his MAIN site sponsor and I for one WILL Express Mine and other's opinion of said company on ANY and EVERY forum to make sure more aren't Blindsided by his Piss poor business ethics.

Also Hilarious how NO one picked up on my comment last page.

I banned you for idiotic comments like this and your odd obsession with attempting to make SimX look bad and pulling crap out of thin air. I bet any amount of money that you have never tried a SimX product and for some really strange reason want everyone to attempt your DIY projects.

Not everyone has the amount of time you do for your DIY projects or to troll forums to talk complete non-sense.

Dude, time for you to get a freakin life. Hopefully you get banned from this forum and every other one that you troll because you have nothing better to do..

 

[LeMansAid]

Dude, time for you to get a freakin life. Hopefully you get banned from this forum and every other one that you troll because you have nothing better to do..

Below the belt.

I find @Nick Moxley opinionated (and maybe a little too fervent), but also very helpful. Perhaps we can not let this descend into a farcical slinging of abuse, and focus on the bits in between that will be relevant to the people not after Sim Racing - The Soap Opera. Like this.....

The Sim Commander software has 1ms of latency not 40ms. 1ms is the best that can be achieved on the Windows platform. The free, highly unrefined Sim Tolls software isn't even remotely competitive in terms of latency.

Sounds good to me, but is it real world output? Is there a caveat in there somewhere? I'm not mistrusting, just wanting to make sure that we have the full picture. 40ms seems like it must have been pulled from somewhere (yes, possibly even from where the sim don't shine)

Since the Accuforce is paired with Sim Commander, future owners would surely like to have assurance of it's "ins and outs". Thank you for directly addressing the relevant issue though.

 

[Blkout]

Below the belt.

I find @Nick Moxley opinionated (and maybe a little too fervent), but also very helpful. Perhaps we can not let this descend into a farcical slinging of abuse, and focus on the bits in between that will be relevant to the people not after Sim Racing - The Soap Opera. Like this.....

So Nick's opinion is welcome by you because you like him but Darin's isn't because you maybe you don't like him? Darin obviously chimed in to clear the record when your friend Nick misspoke about why he was banned from Darin's forum. I don't know why you defend Nick when clearly more than one person has already stated he fabricates his own version of the truth on just about everything. The guy is an attention hound(opinionated by your wording) and likes to fabricate drama, nothing more. Sounds like maybe you need to take what Nick says with a grain of salt since his statements obviously lack accuracy.

 

[K_Soze]

Actually if you read 99% of Nick's posts, you'll find that they are informatives and usefull.

 

[Blkout]

Actually if you read 99% of Nick's posts, you'll find that they are informatives and usefull.

To each his own, many of his posts lack any accuracy and are often insulting as well. Nick likes to tell his side of a story and disregard anything else spoken by anyone else even if its factual, hence the reason he's already been banned by one forum, but hey clearly everyone else is wrong.

 

[LeMansAid]

So Nick's opinion is welcome by you because you like him but Darin's isn't because you maybe you don't like him?

Nothing to do with like or dislike, and.....

Perhaps we can not let this descend into a farcical slinging of abuse, and focus on the bits in between that will be relevant to the people not after Sim Racing - The Soap Opera

 

[bvillersjr]

@ Lemansaid

If we're going to discuss software latency then I would define that as the amount of time it takes the software to initiate an instruction to a hardware device after receiving data from a game via it's API. That would be the total amount of delay introduced by the software itself. On most PC's the Sim Commander 4 achieves this in less than 1ms but we only make a 1ms claim because it's possible to take this long on slower PC's.

Different devices have different communication rates and therefore one may be able to accept a new update every 1ms while another may only be able to accept an update every 4ms. The worst performing device on offer by SimXperience is the GS-4 and it is updated every 4ms by the Sim Commander. The AccuForce could be updated every 1ms.

It's important to separate the hardware communication rates from software performance claims, but no matter how you slice it, 40ms is trash talk. I've seen a lot of different motion sim software. I don't think I've ever seen one perform as poorly as 40ms.

 

[LeMansAid]

Appreciate that @bvillersjr. The lag accusation is not a new one, and as a Sim Commander user I've never been quite sure what to think of it.

 

[K_Soze]

To each his own, many of his posts lack any accuracy and are often insulting as well. Nick likes to tell his side of a story and disregard anything else spoken by anyone else even if its factual, hence the reason he's already been banned by one forum, but hey clearly everyone else is wrong.

I checked the last posts just to understand members reaction, maybe I misunderstood because of my weak English skills.

To come back on the subject, 1ms to 4ms input lag is far inferior to current monitor input lag (I think the best ones get 10 to 20 ms input lag) so it is really nice.

 

[LeMansAid]

I checked the last posts just to understand members reaction, maybe I misunderstood because of my weak English skills.

To come back on the subject, 1ms to 4ms input lag is far inferior to current monitor input lag (I think the best ones get 10 to 20 ms input lag) so it is really nice.

Yes, I don't think that anyone would be complaining about 4ms or lower. Just so you know, that would be superior to 10ms latency.

Though note that the low lag tvs get down to 10ms, while the best monitors are sitting at more like 1ms these days.

 

[K_Soze]

Are you sure about 1ms input lag ? Never seen that on any monitor or tv. Input lag is something different from gray to gray reactivity (good gamers monitors get some 2-4 ms gray to gray reactivity that means it takes that time to change the pixel color and 10-20ms input lag which is the delay between image beeing sent to monitor and image on display).

 

[LeMansAid]

Asus VG248QE appears to claim 1.3ms for example.

 

[K_Soze]

Response time is 7ms and input lag 23ms. We are far from under 10ms input lag

(Can't post tomshardware review link with iOS Safari :S)

Edit : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vg248qe-144hz-gaming-monitor,3609-9.html

 

[oqvist]

Depend on how you measure. With the old camera method vs CRT you could get essentially zero input lag though it´s not the truth.

Harder with Leo Bodnar Input lag tester. There is no tv with low input lag. Sony W-series is quite okay for me though measure the best by far. Some monitors do come very close though.

As for motion simulators I would recon most of the lag comes from the actuators themselves but of course it´s cake on a cake just like for monitors.

 

[LeMansAid]

Yeah, the review http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vg248qe-144hz-gaming-monitor,3609.html lists response time (GTG) (not input lag) as 1ms on the first page, but then later has it at 7ms in a chart.

Then we have this review test http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag, of various low lag tvs that puts the lowest latency at 14ms or 6ms depending on the testing method.

Seems there's plenty of sway for people to deliberately mislead with marketing.

 

[K_Soze]

Actually when it is about the AccuForce input lag, wheel check graphs shows that it has the lowest input lag

http://www.mockracer.com/2015/01/simxperience-accuforce-review.html

 

[K_Soze]

Yeah, the review http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vg248qe-144hz-gaming-monitor,3609.html lists response time (GTG) (not input lag) as 1ms on the first page, but then later has it at 7ms in a chart.

Then we have this review test http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag, of various low lag tvs that puts the lowest latency at 14ms or 6ms depending on the testing method.

Seems there's plenty of sway for people to deliberately mislead with marketing.

It is because GrayToGray reponse time is always lower than whiteToBlack response time (and it is a more realistic response time because most of the time a pixel does not change from black to white).

For display input lag, you have no "perfect" way to mesure it because the display reponse time is a part of the input lag. Display receives the image data, then starts to make pixels change. With OLED the pixels response time is really low so mesuring delay between signal sent and image on display is more "correct" (oled response time is theorically under 0.1 ms).

 

[oqvist]

The low delay is one of the biggest marketing points with directdrive wheels. Less cogs and belts to destroy and delay the force feedback output from the motor. But has the Accuforce been measured to have less then other directdrive wheels like the Leo Bodnar and that 150000$ Direct drive wheel

Directdrive done right that would been a mute point though.

As for displays plasma and oled has much better response times yes and they update the entire screen at once. But somehow they can´t really display images in motion as sharp as CRTs though much better then LCDs of course.

 

[bvillersjr]

@ oqvist - I don't what the latency is of the Bodnar product. Speaking strictly from an architectural design perspective it probably can't match the AccuForce. We're using a single board design. One powerful microcontroller handles receiving the USB communication and updating the motor.

The OSW and Bodnar I believe to be using two board designs. There is one for the USB communication and one off the shelf motor controller board. The communication between those two boards is the weak link in the chain. The OSW for example has more than 2x the latency of the AccuForce per some of the Wheel Check posts in the iRacing forum. I expect similar from the Bodnar 2 board design but I can't say with 100% certainty. At best though, the Bodnar would match the AccuForce latency. I don't think it's possible to react any more quickly.

 

[Mayaman]

Guys can we stop the bickering and just stick to the new wheel. I for one just want to see more damn videos, official ones from SimX, so we can see it in different games, scenarios, mountings, rigs, etc. C'mon this is one of the biggest sim racing stories ever and people are arguing? C'mon.

 

[HoiHman]

@Mayaman

There aren't many videos on the net yet, but i'm that will change as soon as the first ones will be delivered to the customers.

Here's what could find that isn't posted in this topic yet:

 

[oqvist]

Is it the wheel making the noise in the last video?

 

[Blkout]

Guys can we stop the bickering and just stick to the new wheel. I for one just want to see more damn videos, official ones from SimX, so we can see it in different games, scenarios, mountings, rigs, etc. C'mon this is one of the biggest sim racing stories ever and people are arguing? C'mon.

What exactly are you referring to? There's been no "bickering" since Nick went AWOL after his claims were proven to be innacurate and lacking facts. That was many days ago, why bring it up again now after many other posts have been made since then?

 

[Mayaman]

Dude, from a person on the outside looking in, it looks like this thread is full of arguing. Since I wasn't involved in the argument I could care less and don't know what dates it took place. This is exactly what I'm talking about, combative "YOU TALKING TO ME" stuff. LOL

Thanks for the vids Hoi.

 

[Blkout]

Dude, from a person on the outside looking in, it looks like this thread is full of arguing. Since I wasn't involved in the argument I could care less and don't know what dates it took place. This is exactly what I'm talking about, combative "YOU TALKING TO ME" stuff. LOL

Thanks for the vids Hoi.

Nothing combative, just wondering why you brought it back up. Nothing more. Seemed unusual after the thread had already passed that stage, although I suppose all the talk about monitors was a little off subject.

 

[Mayaman]

Because when you click a thread, not everyone notices the time line of events or when stuff was posted. All we see is arguing. I've gotten docked and banned here for far less than what is in this thread which to be real irks me. So I mentioned it as I didn't think it benefited the thread. No offense meant.

Lots of us just read comments, we don't pay attention to the dates.

 

[SkillRacer]

Is it the wheel making the noise in the last video?

Some of it is from the rig, but not quite sure where the actual noise is coming from. Some of it seems like it might be from the button box, or the paddle snifters tapping their stoppers during the high vibrations. I've been unable to determine the exact source of the sounds.

This video should give you a more clear idea of how much noise the wheel makes as mounted on my rig:

 

[vasiliflame]

Silent what drivers did you need to install for the wheel bud.. i know it has it's own software and can it capture the Logitech signal? as i would like to support this wheel in my game. You Could be the ffb tester if thats the case

Some real pre-alpha stuff is here http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjdSpEX3-kjwmUgWiohucBQ

 

[SkillRacer]

Silent what drivers did you need to install for the wheel bud.. i know it has it's own software and can it capture the Logitech signal? as i would like to support this wheel in my game. You Could be the ffb tester if thats the case

Some real pre-alpha stuff is here http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjdSpEX3-kjwmUgWiohucBQ

Its software, SimCommander, is also its driver, so there is nothing additional to install. By default windows recognizes the wheel as a joystick with a lot of buttons. The SimCommander software doesn't work with any other wheel unfortunately.

Nice game demo. You should talk to Berney about that. If you have some specific physics output you want expressed in FFB you might be able to write a plugin for SimCommander that outputs that data from your game, but I don't know much about that.

 

[vasiliflame]

Its software, SimCommander, is also its driver, so there is nothing additional to install. By default windows recognizes the wheel as a joystick with a lot of buttons. The SimCommander software doesn't work with any other wheel unfortunately.

Nice game demo. You should talk to Berney about that. If you have some specific physics output you want expressed in FFB you might be able to write a plugin for SimCommander that outputs that data from your game, but I don't know much about that.

As long as sim defender can pick up logitech. i wouldnt have to touch one line of code ... well a few ...

i'll look into it thanks for quick reply and info Buddy :d