Aliens
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Dotini
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Solid scientific evidence the UFO phenomenon is here (in Norway) and real.
The problem is we don't understand it. It could be solid or it could be high density plasma. Probably the latter. Sometimes it seems to exhibit intelligent or adaptive behavior. But then, so do many common things in nature. At this point, it could be anything from wispy tendrils of the godhead to a distant cousin of lightning.
The problem is we don't understand it. It could be solid or it could be high density plasma. Probably the latter. Sometimes it seems to exhibit intelligent or adaptive behavior. But then, so do many common things in nature. At this point, it could be anything from wispy tendrils of the godhead to a distant cousin of lightning.
Dotini
(Banned)
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It was stated by one of the scientists in the Hessdalen investigations, for one thing. (It's in the video, if you didn't watch it.)
For another, it was stated by Philip Klass, the famous UFO skeptic, in his 1975 book, UFOs Explained. Also offered as explanation by physics professor Harley Rutledge in his 1981 study of UFOs, Project Identification.
For a third, the plasma explanation makes more sense from a physics perspective than any other on offer that I am aware of.
And finally, my own personal experiences with the phenomenon make the plasma-based activity the most acceptable explanation. As you know, lightning is a form of plasma.
FYI, some of my other infatuations:
- Mountain climbing
- Kart racing
- Dangerous women
- Sword fighting (actually classical fencing with foil and épée)
- Game of Thrones
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My neighbour, in his seventies now, told me last year that he saw a UFO when he was much younger.
He saw a black traingle flying over him, very low and very slow, in daylight. This "thing" flew towards the West and hovered over the local church. Made a sharp turn to the South and flew away at high speed. I'm not sure if I write it down correctly but that is, to some extend, what he said to me.
He never told anyone of this, until last year or was it two years ago, he told the story to me.
He saw a black traingle flying over him, very low and very slow, in daylight. This "thing" flew towards the West and hovered over the local church. Made a sharp turn to the South and flew away at high speed. I'm not sure if I write it down correctly but that is, to some extend, what he said to me.
He never told anyone of this, until last year or was it two years ago, he told the story to me.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- 13,922
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Yes, I saw the video. What solid scientific evidence? That there are lights, and that they don't give spectral lines? That a farmer has 68 events that he can "prove" because he wrote them down? That they have a bunch of low res, shakycam footage?
Presumably they've done research into it being some sort of weather or atmosphere related phenomenon? Where is that information presented? Is it a solid object? Is it only visible from long distance, as all the footage they have seems to be? Does it make a sound, or is there electromagnetic radiation in any non-visible frequency emitted? Are there patterns to it's movement, visual appearance, or times and dates of appearance? Where is the energy for this phenomenon coming from: radiation, heat, physical processes?
Weird stuff happens, and I'd be a fool to try and form some sort of opinion on the vague sort of evidence that I've seen presented in that video. There's way, way too many questions that still need asking. It could be just about anything, and based on the evidence presented I could probably form a rational argument for just about anything. And statistically, whatever I chose would almost certainly be wrong, and would only serve to narrow my view on any further information presented.
The most I could say is "more information needed", but given that they've supposedly be making observations for 30 years then I doubt that it's going to happen any time soon.
Trying to form opinions from a lack of evidence is exactly how people arrive at conclusions like aliens, ghosts and God. It's not necessary to have an opinion on everything, especially when there's not enough information to even start to narrow things down.
Dotini
(Banned)
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You sound as though you may have an interest in the phenomenon, especially if you had some real evidence to consider.
Since Hessdalen is the best studied UFO case (that I know about), I will make an effort to provide more evidence for you to ponder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessdalen_light
Hessdalen UFO Phenomenon History and description[edit]
Unusual lights have been reported here since the 1940s or earlier. Especially high activity of Hessdalen lights took place from December 1981 until the summer of 1984 when lights were observed 15–20 times per week. The frequency of the lights caused a gathering of numerous tourists staying there overnight to see the phenomenon.[1] Since then, the activity has decreased and now the lights are observed some 10–20 times per year.
The Hessdalen light most often is a bright, white or yellow light of unknown origin standing or floating above the ground level. Sometimes the light can be seen for more than one hour. There are several other types of unexplained lights observed in the Hessdalen valley.[2]
Research[edit]
Since 1983 there has been ongoing scientific research often nicknamed "Project Hessdalen", initiated by UFO-Norge and UFO-Sweden. The project was active as field investigations during 1983–1985. In 1998, the Hessdalen AMS automated scientific research station was built in the valley. It registers and records the appearance of lights.
Later, the EMBLA program was initiated. It brings together established scientists and students into researching these lights. Leading research institutions are Østfold University College (Norway) and the Italian National Research Council.
Possible explanations[edit]
In spite of ongoing research there is no convincing explanation of the origin of these lights. However, there are numerous working hypotheses.
- One possible explanation attributes the phenomenon to an incompletely understood combustion process in the air involving clouds of dust from the valley floor containing scandium.[3]
- One recent hypothesis suggests that the lights are formed by a cluster of macroscopic Coulomb crystals in a plasma produced by the ionization of air and dust by alpha particles during radon decay in the dusty atmosphere. Several physical properties (oscillation, geometric structure, and light spectrum) observed in Hessdalen lights (HL) phenomenon can be explained through the dust plasma model.[4] Radon decay produces alpha particles (responsible by helium emissions in HL spectrum) and radioactive elements such as polonium. In 2004, Teodorani[5][6] showed an occurrence where a higher level of radioactivity on rocks was detected near the area where a large light ball was reported. In fact, when radon is released into air, its solid decay products readily attach to airborne dust.[7] A new computer simulation shows that dust immersed in ionized gas (i.e., dusty plasmas) can organize itself into double helixes. The simulations suggested that under conditions commonly found in space, the dust particles first form a cylindrical structure that sometimes evolved into helical structures. Along some spirals, the radius of the helix was seen to change abruptly from one value to another and then back again, providing a mechanism for storing information in terms of the length and radius of a section of a spiral. Hessdalen lights may take the helical structure. Surprisingly, dusty plasmas may also assume this structure.[8]
- Another hypothesis explains HL as a product of piezoelectricity generated under specific rock strains (Takaki and Ikeya, 1998)[9] because many crystal rocks include quartz grains which produce an intense charge density. In a 2011 paper,[10] based in the dusty plasma theory of HL, it is suggested that piezoelectricity of quartz cannot explain a peculiar property assumed by the HL phenomenon – the presence of geometrical structures in its center. Paiva and Taft have shown a mechanism of light ball cluster formation in Hessdalen lights by the nonlinear interaction of ion-acoustic and dusty-acoustic waves with low frequency geoelectromagnetic waves in dusty plasmas. The theoretical model shows that the velocity of ejected light balls by HL cluster is of about 10,000 m s−1 in a good agreement with the observed velocity of some ejected light balls, which is estimated as 20,000 m s−1.[11] Why the ejected ball is always green-colored? Ejection of small green light ball from HL is due to radiation pressure produced by the interaction between very low frequency electromagnetic waves (VLF) and atmospheric ions (present in the central white-colored ball) through ion-acoustic waves (IAW).[12] Probably only O2+ ions (electronic transition (b4Σg- → a4Πu)), with green emission lines, is transported by IAW. Electronic bands of O2+ ion occur in auroral spectra.[13] Electron-molecular-ion dissociative recombination coefficient rate α as functions of electron temperature Te and cross sections σ as a function of electron energy E have been have measured by Mehr and Biondi [14] for N2+ and O2+ over the electron temperature interval 0.007–10 eV. The estimated temperature of HL is of about 5,000 K.[15] In this temperature, the rate coefficient of dissociative recombination will be respectively α(Te)O2+ ~ 10-8 cm3 s-1, and α(Te)N2+ ~ 10-7 cm3 s-1. Thus, the nitrogen ions will be decomposed in N2+ + e- → N + N* more rapidly than oxygen ions in the HL plasma. Only ionic-species are transported by IAW. Therefore, only oxygen ions will be predominant ejected green light balls from a central white ball in HL, presenting negative band of O2+ with electronic transition b4Σg- → a4Πu after an IAW formation. Paiva and Taft [16] presented a model for resolving the apparently contradictory spectrum observed in Hessdalen lights (HL) phenomenon. Thus, its nearly flat spectrum on the top with steep sides is due to the effect of optical thickness on the bremsstrahlung spectrum. At low frequencies self-absorption modifies the spectrum to follow the Rayleigh–Jeans part of the blackbody curve. This spectrum is typical of dense ionized gas. Additionally, spectrum produced in the thermal bremsstrahlung process is flat up to a cutoff frequency, ν cut, and falls off exponentially at higher frequencies. This sequence of events forms the typical spectrum of HL phenomenon when the atmosphere is clear, with no fog. According to the model, spatial color distribution of luminous balls commonly observed in HL phenomenon are produced by electrons accelerated by electric fields during rapid fracture of piezoelectric rocks under the ground.[17]
- Some individuals claim that the lights are created by extraterrestrial spacecraft. This position is outside the scientific mainstream.
- There have been some sightings positively identified as misperceptions of astronomical bodies, aircraft, car headlights, and mirages.[18]
The Project Hessdalen Homepage and technical report is available at http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml
Foreword
1. Introduction
2. The Instruments
3. The Results
3.1 The lights
3.2 The spectral-analysis
3.3 The Seismograph
3.4 The radar recordings
3.5 The Spectrum Analyser
3.6 Magnetometer
3.7 Laser
3.8 Geigercounter
3.9 IR-Viewer
3.10 F10 Lights
4. DISCUSSION
4.1 The sightings
4.2 The spectral analysis
4.3 The radar and spectrum analyser
4.4 The magnetometer
4.5 The laser
4.6 The geigercounter and the IR-viewer
4.7 The "nonworking" instruments
5. CONCLUSION
APPENDIX
A1. Summary of the reports
A2. Overview on some of the films
A3. Registrations on seismograph
A4. Registrations on radar
A5. Registration on spectrum analyser
A6. Registrations on magnetograph
- The temperature and the sightings
- An aeromagnetical map
- The geology
- The pictures
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Dotini
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The man who will head Hillary Clinton's campaign is really into UFOs.
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-podesta-is-really-into-ufos-2015-1
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2015/01/inside-john-podestas-head-re-ufo.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-podesta-is-really-into-ufos-2015-1
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2015/01/inside-john-podestas-head-re-ufo.html
- 29,458
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
They choose to 'publish' this stuff via The Daily Express and wonder why people have a hard time believing it?
This is more of the same from these people. The last time I saw something from these guys was in 2013 when they published a paper in the venerable 'Journal of Cosmology' (which has an impact factor on a par with the Daily Express), notable for the fact that one of the chief editors of the journal is a co-author of the paper - always handy. This paper came to the conclusion that diatoms cannot remain long enough in the high atmosphere to have possibly come from the ground - yet, they do at least acknowledge that it is possible for diatoms and other hard objects to get there from Earth in the first place. But, they rule out the possibility that objects of this type (without publishing precise details of what they objects are made of, or other important physical properties) can maybe stay in the high atmosphere for longer than they think, and conclude that their alternative view - that these objects are coming in from space - is more likely/credible. However, the astonishing lack of detail in these papers (and in this case there isn't even a paper, just some pictures and waffle) raises very serious questions as to how seriously one ought to take their conclusions.
This is more of the same from these people. The last time I saw something from these guys was in 2013 when they published a paper in the venerable 'Journal of Cosmology' (which has an impact factor on a par with the Daily Express), notable for the fact that one of the chief editors of the journal is a co-author of the paper - always handy. This paper came to the conclusion that diatoms cannot remain long enough in the high atmosphere to have possibly come from the ground - yet, they do at least acknowledge that it is possible for diatoms and other hard objects to get there from Earth in the first place. But, they rule out the possibility that objects of this type (without publishing precise details of what they objects are made of, or other important physical properties) can maybe stay in the high atmosphere for longer than they think, and conclude that their alternative view - that these objects are coming in from space - is more likely/credible. However, the astonishing lack of detail in these papers (and in this case there isn't even a paper, just some pictures and waffle) raises very serious questions as to how seriously one ought to take their conclusions.
BobK
Premium
- 7,020
- Massachusetts, USA
This gentleman clearly does not know the difference between "evidence" and "proof". Accordingly, I find it difficult to take any of his"scientific" conclusions seriously.
Well, duh. Given that the entire Solar System including the Earth was once a cloud of interstellar dust, this statement is patently obvious. It does nothing to support his bizarre theories.
Dotini
(Banned)
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I see what you mean!
Hopefully Professor Milton Wainwright and his team from the University of Sheffield and the University of Buckingham Centre for Astrobiology will publish a paper for peer review - or forever stand condemned as charlatans and frauds from pathetic and substandard institutions, undeserving of public support or attention.
I am so ashamed and disgusted, I have deleted the original post.
Hopefully Professor Milton Wainwright and his team from the University of Sheffield and the University of Buckingham Centre for Astrobiology will publish a paper for peer review - or forever stand condemned as charlatans and frauds from pathetic and substandard institutions, undeserving of public support or attention.
I am so ashamed and disgusted, I have deleted the original post.
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- 29,458
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I wouldn't go that far mate.. it's not fraudelent - it's just not what I would consider as robust science, and that is likely the reason why it doesn't even get submitted to top scientific journals in the first place. Of course, Prof. Wainwright might have a different view - that his science will not get published in a mainstream journal such as Nature or Science because these journals are run by a corrupt cabal or that the scientific community at large will not tolerate ideas and concepts that challenge the prevailing wisdom of the times... neither, of course, are true - but there is always a grain of truth in these ideas (i.e. there are some people to which these things might apply) that gives people like Wainwright a place to grind his axe.
All I would say is that these claims are truly extraordinary, and that they require extraordinary evidence to back them up. Whether they submit that evidence to the Daily Express, the Journal of Cosmology or Science is actually quite irrelevant - if it's real, thorough, peer-reviewed, well-presented and meticulously detailed, the science will speak for itself. Sadly, their efforts leave alot to be desired on most of these fronts - I don't doubt that their results/observations are real, but it's nowhere near enough to find a diatom (or an amorphous piece of stuff) floating high in Earth's atmosphere and conclude that they are the remnants of lifeforms from somewhere other than planet Earth.
For the record, I reckon it is only a matter of time (OK, and a great deal of money...) until there is such a breakthrough - but it might be a very long time, and the evidence may well need to include in-situ samples from other celestial objects themselves (comets, other planets etc.) before we can say that the question of extra-terrestrial life is truly 'beyond doubt'.
All I would say is that these claims are truly extraordinary, and that they require extraordinary evidence to back them up. Whether they submit that evidence to the Daily Express, the Journal of Cosmology or Science is actually quite irrelevant - if it's real, thorough, peer-reviewed, well-presented and meticulously detailed, the science will speak for itself. Sadly, their efforts leave alot to be desired on most of these fronts - I don't doubt that their results/observations are real, but it's nowhere near enough to find a diatom (or an amorphous piece of stuff) floating high in Earth's atmosphere and conclude that they are the remnants of lifeforms from somewhere other than planet Earth.
For the record, I reckon it is only a matter of time (OK, and a great deal of money...) until there is such a breakthrough - but it might be a very long time, and the evidence may well need to include in-situ samples from other celestial objects themselves (comets, other planets etc.) before we can say that the question of extra-terrestrial life is truly 'beyond doubt'.
- 4,504
- Vancouver, BC
A little concept I've always found quite fascinating:
Discovery of such lifeforms on a gas giant would be truly amazing, to say the least. I very much doubt there would be intelligent or sentient life on such a world, however, perhaps that is just my human arrogance.
Like Sagan says in the clip, the discovery of a single extraterrestrial microbe would be just fine. We do not necessarily have to search for sentient creatures only, or even cabon-based or water-based life. If we discover life, no matter how basic, on just one of the many strange worlds in our own solar system - like Europa, Titan, Enceladus, Mars, or perhaps even one of the gas giants - then life in the universe may be very common indeed.
Discovery of such lifeforms on a gas giant would be truly amazing, to say the least. I very much doubt there would be intelligent or sentient life on such a world, however, perhaps that is just my human arrogance.
Like Sagan says in the clip, the discovery of a single extraterrestrial microbe would be just fine. We do not necessarily have to search for sentient creatures only, or even cabon-based or water-based life. If we discover life, no matter how basic, on just one of the many strange worlds in our own solar system - like Europa, Titan, Enceladus, Mars, or perhaps even one of the gas giants - then life in the universe may be very common indeed.
Dotini
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Yeti hunter looking for Scottish Bigfoot
A famous image of bigfoot taken by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin 1967. Pic: AP Photo
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/yeti-hunter-looking-for-scottish-bigfoot-1-3664914
A woman who claims to have seen a Scottish yeti as a child has signed on to hunt for evidence of the creatures around the world.
Charmaine Fraser, 41, has joined the British Bigfoot Research team as they look to prove the existence of the mysterious creatures.
Charmaine says she spotted a 7ft bigfoot as a child and since then she’s been fascinated by all things Sasquatch - gathering details of 200 reports of the creatures in Britain, including 50 in Scotland.
Her interest in the subject was sparked after she saw a “large black figure” with no neck and broad shoulders while walking her gran’s dog in remote woodland near Arbroath, Angus, as a child.
She saw a similar creature in the same area shortly afterwards and recalls how it had a “humanoid shape” and eyes that shone orange when headlights picked it out in the darkness.
She also heard a “long, deep wail” in the same woods and thinks it could have been the call of the as yet undiscovered animal.
Mum-of-one Charmaine, who has a degree in psychology from St Andrews University, said: “I saw a large black figure with its back to me.
“It was reaching up to a branch on a tree at the side of the track and was about 7ft tall, thick build with no neck and wide shoulders.
“I didn’t hang about to see its face.”
Her childhood account was dismissed at the time but she now knows she wasn’t the only one to find odd goings-on in the woods.
She said: “My sister found a den in the woods with animal skulls arranged in a semi-circle. That was several years after my sighting.
“I know a lot of people will dismiss this but it does seem to be happening to people.
“If anyone wants to come forward they can talk to us.
“We give everyone the benefit of the doubt.”
Over the years there have been a number of Bigfoot encounters in the US. Last week it was claimed a Bigfoot had been spotted in a Lincolnshire wood.
Charmaine said: “The most popular theory is they are a hominid species related to humans. We believe they exist. It’s just about finding evidence.”
A famous image of bigfoot taken by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin 1967. Pic: AP Photo
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/yeti-hunter-looking-for-scottish-bigfoot-1-3664914
A woman who claims to have seen a Scottish yeti as a child has signed on to hunt for evidence of the creatures around the world.
Charmaine Fraser, 41, has joined the British Bigfoot Research team as they look to prove the existence of the mysterious creatures.
Charmaine says she spotted a 7ft bigfoot as a child and since then she’s been fascinated by all things Sasquatch - gathering details of 200 reports of the creatures in Britain, including 50 in Scotland.
Her interest in the subject was sparked after she saw a “large black figure” with no neck and broad shoulders while walking her gran’s dog in remote woodland near Arbroath, Angus, as a child.
She saw a similar creature in the same area shortly afterwards and recalls how it had a “humanoid shape” and eyes that shone orange when headlights picked it out in the darkness.
She also heard a “long, deep wail” in the same woods and thinks it could have been the call of the as yet undiscovered animal.
Mum-of-one Charmaine, who has a degree in psychology from St Andrews University, said: “I saw a large black figure with its back to me.
“It was reaching up to a branch on a tree at the side of the track and was about 7ft tall, thick build with no neck and wide shoulders.
“I didn’t hang about to see its face.”
Her childhood account was dismissed at the time but she now knows she wasn’t the only one to find odd goings-on in the woods.
She said: “My sister found a den in the woods with animal skulls arranged in a semi-circle. That was several years after my sighting.
“I know a lot of people will dismiss this but it does seem to be happening to people.
“If anyone wants to come forward they can talk to us.
“We give everyone the benefit of the doubt.”
Over the years there have been a number of Bigfoot encounters in the US. Last week it was claimed a Bigfoot had been spotted in a Lincolnshire wood.
Charmaine said: “The most popular theory is they are a hominid species related to humans. We believe they exist. It’s just about finding evidence.”
- 1,916
- Letchworth
- mistersafeway
Wow, I guess the isolated sightings for all these years, that aren't backed up by any actual evidence and have a lack of plurality of claimants isn't enough evidence that there aren't seven foot tall (amazing she can be so precise with something she saw, presumably from a distance, as a child 💡) apemen roaming the planet.
Can we call bigfootism a religion yet? The similarities are uncanny. 
Thanks for posting, always fun to read delusional nonsense (serious, and referring to her as delusional, not you). 👍
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Thanks for your astute remarks.Wow, I guess the isolated sightings for all these years, that aren't backed up by any actual evidence and have a lack of plurality of claimants isn't enough evidence that there aren't seven foot tall (amazing she can be so precise with something she saw, presumably from a distance, as a child 💡) apemen roaming the planet.
Thanks for posting, always fun to read delusional nonsense (serious, and referring to her as delusional, not you). 👍
IMO, "Bigfootism" has psychic or quasi-religious characteristics, similar to the UFO/alien phenomena, and also to the fairy-faith of Celtic countries.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
The UFO phenomenon also has another global manifestation, now occurring in France, where both drones and UFOs are seen to visit nuclear power plants. http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/01/french-nuclear-director-says-ufo-was-over-his-plant/
Witness sketch of UFO seen over a French nuclear plant (not Blayais)
These UFO sightings over nuclear facilities worldwide have been occurring long before drones became available. While many plants do not hesitate to report them, none seem to want to contact or confront them. Why not?
https://translate.google.com/transl...u-blayais-1804446-2780.php&edit-text=&act=url
« Ici, on n'a pas vu de drone . " Here, we have not seen drone . On a vu un ovni et il n'y a eu aucun impact sur la sûreté de nos sites. Notre position est claire, lorsqu'il y a survol du site nous portons plainte et on communique. » We saw a UFO and there was no impact on the safety of our sites. Our position is clear, when there overflight of the site and we complain we communicate. "
Witness sketch of UFO seen over a French nuclear plant (not Blayais)
These UFO sightings over nuclear facilities worldwide have been occurring long before drones became available. While many plants do not hesitate to report them, none seem to want to contact or confront them. Why not?
https://translate.google.com/transl...u-blayais-1804446-2780.php&edit-text=&act=url
« Ici, on n'a pas vu de drone . " Here, we have not seen drone . On a vu un ovni et il n'y a eu aucun impact sur la sûreté de nos sites. Notre position est claire, lorsqu'il y a survol du site nous portons plainte et on communique. » We saw a UFO and there was no impact on the safety of our sites. Our position is clear, when there overflight of the site and we complain we communicate. "
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
That's a good notion. I do think there are policies and protocols which are implemented when UFOs manifest in sensitive places.
IMO, the UFO phenomenon communicates almost entirely in the realm of psychological and mythic symbolism. The physical reality of UFOs has never been established beyond what might be described as transient electrical events.
