Alonso title could devalue F1, says Mosley (Championship spoilers within)

[LancerEvo7]

How does the voting percentage add up to more than 100%?

It's a multiple choice poll, and one or two people voted both options. Since the percentages are out of all voters, not percentage of votes, the total is over 100%. /offtopic

EDIT: D'oh, tree'd.

 

[Rossticles]

That's silly.

I guess there could be someone out there that thinks Mosley is full of himself, but not that Ferrari's actions were unsporting. Dumb. Make up your mind people.

 

[Ardius]

but not that Ferrari's actions were unsporting.

Not the question for the poll. Ferrari were "unsporting" in the sense of letting Massa race for his win. But it wouldn't have "devalued" Alonso's potential title and Formula 1 in general anymore than previous team orders affected championships.
Mosley was talking utter tripe and he is full of himself.

 

[The Outlaw]

Alonso wouldn't have had an 8 point advantage going into Abu Dhabi, it would have been 1 point. Although its irrelevant in the end with this result, it could have been very relevant.

Exactly. Had it not been for that full course caution early on (what I'd call a cruel twist of fate for Alonso) it more than likely would have meant that Alonso would have won the title. But in hindsight it's always easy to say such a decision (team orders @ Hockenheim) was somewhat unneccesary, especially considering all the controversy that followed...but again that's all in hindsight.

Nobody was in front of Massa at the time. So there's no one for him to shake a fist at.

Oddly... what do you consider makes a person worthy to be a champion? Is it the same set of criteria that makes a person worthy to win a political seat in an election? Because while, in both cases, we hope for that person to be a good sport, an honest person and a generally good guy... most of the time it's the ruthless, dedicated and completely self-centered that win at both.

Exactly - I think I said something to along these lines some while back.

Alonso's gesture was a bit cruel and uncalled for, but it's quite easy to understand how utterly frustrating it must have been to have watched his Championship slip away in such a helpless and unluckly situation. All these drivers have emotions good and bad, none of this determines whether they are worthy Champions or not - this is not the "nice guy awards" for christ sakes.

And according to interludes logic, Vettel probably isn't a worthy Champion either after driving his car into Webber (@ Turkey) and then making a foul (crazy) gesture intended torward Webber after the accident If you base your decision on who is a worthy or deserving Champion on personalities and not driving alone, you should be watching a different sport...or better yet no sports in general.

Well... opinion, so I can't push that line of argument any further.

It's not a vested interest if there is no secret agenda. Obviously, Ferrari doesn't want points stripped or money taken away. No team does. But Ferrari was also apparently bristling at being accused of violating the letter of the law when they hadn't. Note: Letter... not spirit. Many teams do their best to violate the spirit of the rules (which exists mostly to level the playing field) in order to win without being penalized for violating the letter.

Ferrari have been fighting controversy all season long. They've been actively hostile in the media against their critics and the FIA. I personally feel they deserve the criticism. But I still don't see their "sin" as being any worse, categorically, than Brawn's double-diffuser last season or Red Bull's flexible floors this season... or all the radio orders regarding "fuel saving" this season. All violate, in part, the spirit of the law, but do not violate the letter of the law. If the FIA wanted to win this battle, they should have made the rule clearer.

And they should be careful. The French Court ruling against them in Briatore's case has sound legal basis (never actually bothered reading the details till now). They can't afford another high profile case where they seem completely in the right and yet can't make their punishments stick.

Personally... the rule is useless. A more workable version is this: "Teams cannot radio their drivers during the race or send information to the driver's cars via wireless communication. They also cannot use sign boards to inform the drivers of the position of other cars. Cars and helmets will not have distinct markings, so drivers cannot identify teammates, and drivers will not be told the results of qualifying."

Silly, but that's the only way to prevent team-mates from not racing each other, or giving way to each other.

Well said - the highlighted text is right on the mark IMO.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=395584&FS=F1

Ferrari still reckon Red Bull and Toro Rosso conspired against them in Abu Dhabi.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=395582&FS=F1

Vitaly Petrov reveals Alonso fans defaced his website and Facebook fan pages.

If you ask me, both sound like a chronic bout of sore-loserdom and only adds weight to my argument that Alonso didn't deserve the title. Felipe Massa's display of sportsmanship at Brazil 2008 was laudable; the reactions from Alonso's fans, Alonso himself (his gesture at Petrov and the way he reportedly hasn't even congratulated Sebastian Vettel) and Ferrari are a disturbing display of unsportsmanlike behaviour, right up there with Holden and Holden fans at Philip Island in 2006.

 

[Hun200kmh]

You are right about the actions of the fans. But if we judged the sport and who deserves what according to fans actions, my guess is that football (soccer for english-speaking americans) would cease its existence. At least 99% of major teams would

About Ferrari's reply to italian newspapers, all I'll say is that I've seen much worse, doesn't bother me a bit.

About Alonso's reaction a few seconds after crossing the line ... quickly corrected in all his public declarations mere minutes after ... I'll just say this: Vettel's "looney finger" towards Webber was in-fi-ni-te-ly worse.

So, to make my opinion clear:

1 - Is Vettel worthy of the championship? Yes, he got it didn't he?

2 - Would Alonso be a worthy champion: Without a doubt!

3 - Would Alonso deserve it more (the WDC) ? Well, frankly ... all things considered ... a big YES

 

[Sureboss]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=395584&FS=F1

Ferrari still reckon Red Bull and Toro Rosso conspired against them in Abu Dhabi.

Trying to find excuses for their strategy failure in trying to cover what Webber was doing and not even thinking about where they'd come back. Alonso then lost his rag and didn't have the composure to pass anyone quickly enough.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Trying to find excuses for their strategy failure in trying to cover what Webber was doing and not even thinking about where they'd come back. Alonso then lost his rag and didn't have the composure to pass anyone quickly enough.

Oh, certainly - but at the same time, Webber got by Alguersuari remarkably quickly, but Massa struggled for laps on end to get by. I don't believe the teams conspired to railroad Ferrari, but at the same time, I can't help but wonder if Toro Rosso decided to do it pro bono. The irony is that while it says Red Bull on the side of the car, it's a Ferrari powering it, so Alguersuari had an interest in seeing both sides do well. And that's before you get around to the fact that he and Alonso are both Spaniards.

 

[Sureboss]

Webber is a far better driver than Massa, especially this season. Massa's frame of mind has been awful since Hockenheim and Ferrari have a lot of work to get him back on side.

 

[Dotini]

My first awareness of Ferrari was in 1961, when I could see that they frequently ran 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in a Grand Prix.

The English-speaking motoring press invariably depicted Ferrari as overdogs. Then and now. It was a thrill for me when they were thrashed by Chapman's Lotus or Shelby's Cobra.

Today, the driver Alonso comes across as a kind of monster, an overdog, and easy to cheer against if you're an infracaninophile, like me.

After the Hockenheim incident, I thought Ferrari could be punished by having their points revoked or being tossed out of the 2010 Championship tables. In my darkest thoughts I pondered removing all their points going back to 1950.

Now it is said that Vettel lusts to drive a Ferrari. In his turn, he too may become a monster and overdog. Like the Chinese proverb says, the past, present and future are alike as three drops of water.

 

[Peter]

The idea of Torro Rosso and Red Bull conspiring against them isn't ridiculous. In Abu Dhabi, Webber was lapping Alguersuari, which he did very easily, while Massa behind hm, was stuck for laps. And Didn't Alguersuari almost put Alonso into a wall in Brazil?



About Alonso fans defacing Petrov's wall, it's fans, which aren't a representation of the person. And much of Alonso's fans are Spanish, and we know how they are already.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

About Alonso fans defacing Petrov's wall, it's fans, which aren't a representation of the person. And much of Alonso's fans are Spanish, and we know how they are already.

Actually, it is a representation of his fans. The defaced Petrov's websites in Alonso's name; they did it because they felt Petrov was blocking Alonso, and that cost him a World Championship. Alonso might not have endorsed that kind of behaviour, but he didn't exactly do anything to stop it. He wasn't sportsman-like to Petrov, so why should his fans be any different?

 

[niky]

You can't blame a sportsman for his fans. "There is no cause so noble that one cannot find a fool following it."

Alonso's attitude doesn't help, sure, but you can't generalize the actions of a few Spanish-speaking sports hooligans and link it to the drivers they support.

Remember when it was Massa versus Hamilton for the championship? The racial slurs? The insults hurled at Lewis? Can we blame that on Massa, arguably one of the nicest guys to almost win a championship?

My first awareness of Ferrari was in 1961, when I could see that they frequently ran 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in a Grand Prix.

The English-speaking motoring press invariably depicted Ferrari as overdogs. Then and now. It was a thrill for me when they were thrashed by Chapman's Lotus or Shelby's Cobra.

Today, the driver Alonso comes across as a kind of monster, an overdog, and easy to cheer against if you're an infracaninophile, like me.

After the Hockenheim incident, I thought Ferrari could be punished by having their points revoked or being tossed out of the 2010 Championship tables. In my darkest thoughts I pondered removing all their points going back to 1950.

Now it is said that Vettel lusts to drive a Ferrari. In his turn, he too may become a monster and overdog. Like the Chinese proverb says, the past, present and future are alike as three drops of water.

Or you're an ultracaninophobe? Oddly poetic post. 👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

you can't generalize the actions of a few Spanish-speaking sports hooligans and link it to the drivers they support.

Who said it was just the Spanish-speaking fans? I've seen Anglo-Saxon Alonso supporters do it to Petrov's Facebook page.

 

[niky]

Who said it was just the Spanish-speaking fans? I've seen Anglo-Saxon Alonso supporters do it to Petrov's Facebook page.

Well... same thing. There are hooligans supporting teams and sportsmen in every sport.