America - The Official Thread

[JacktheHat]

i dont mock anyone because they're british, if i saw someone waving a british flag down my street, i would think they are a little strange though, it's their right to do that...yet the people in the revolutionary war fought, bled, and died for our country just so we could have simple freedoms like the bill of rights...which some countries dont have. what are the people now fighting in iraq over? giving iraq the simple freedoms that we may have...

i also have a problem with a monarchy, i dont agree with it, but that doesnt mean yer any better or worse than us, yet you can keep bashing our country
your tone of voice jackthehat is basically saying "you americans suck and we british people are much better and higher than you"

thats a real nice way to represent your country 👍

by the way...Matthew 7:1,
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

And thank you for not actually reading my posts or you would have seen my opinion of the British Empire and the Union Jack.

Can you say 'reactionary'?

 

[Swift]

Hey Jack. I want to ask you something. Do you use ANY products made from Taiwan, China, Singapore or any other country where sweatshops exist?

 

[JacktheHat]

Hey Jack. I want to ask you something. Do you use ANY products made from Taiwan, China, Singapore or any other country where sweatshops exist?

What relevance does that have to why people are offended by the US flag?

 

[Danoff]

And the American Government has never been involved? I'd research that if I was you - try United Fruit Company as a starting point

Unless some sort of law is being broken - freedom being removed or harm being done... then the government should not get invovled.

And I'm sure it makes soooo much difference...

The salary in fact makes so much difference, that these people are willing to work for Coke or Nike to get it.

That's a very inhumanitarian view to take, American companies know these workers are exploited yet they choose to ignore this in favour of cheap labour.

How is offering them a better life exploitation? If Coke didn't show up with work these people would starve. Since Nike offers them a job, they have a better life - and you call this exploitation? I call it progress.

They work for low wages to survive, I doubt whether they're very grateful for being exploited.

I'm sure they're quite grateful for the money and the company since they would otherwise starve to death. It offers these people a chance not to work on cocaine farms or have to provide for every aspect of their lives themselves.

I'm really quite shocked that you think when a company shows up to a destitute town with work, offering salaries for people who otherwise have essentially nothing, so that they can earn a better life for themselves and their family - that you would think this was a bad thing. I assure you the people who are working these jobs don't think it's a bad thing - otherwise they wouldn't do it.


Edit:

I'm sure they will, and if they're like me they'll probably laugh and then shake their heads.

Then they need to think about things a little more carefully.

 

[Swift]

What relevance does that have to why people are offended by the US flag?

Because you've gone to great lengths to say that both of our countries exploit those people. So if you use those products you're propagating that exploitation. Surely someone as free thinking as you can see that.

 

[JacktheHat]

I'm really quite shocked that you think when a company shows up to a destitute town with work, offering salaries for people who otherwise have essentially nothing, so that they can earn a better life for themselves and their family - that you would think this was a bad thing. I assure you the people who are working these jobs don't think it's a bad thing - otherwise they wouldn't do it.

And I'm really quite shocked that your nieve enough to believe that.

Do you actually know any of these people? How do you know they're happy with the situation? Are you aware of what's going on in Bolivia at the moment? Are those people happy?

 

[JacktheHat]

Because you've gone to great lengths to say that both of our countries exploit those people. So if you use those products you're propagating that exploitation. Surely someone as free thinking as you can see that.

Again I ask what relevance that has to do with why people are offended by the US flag?

 

[Swift]

Again I ask what relevance that has to do with why people are offended by the US flag?

You know. This is a trip. You won't answer my question "directly" though you give me a hard time when I don't answer yours in a different thread.

Very funny.

 

[Danoff]

And I'm really quite shocked that your nieve enough to believe that.

Do you actually know any of these people? How do you know they're happy with the situation? Are you aware of what's going on in Bolivia at the moment? Are those people happy?

[sarcasm] That's a good rebuttle! [/sarcasm] I hit you with logic and you respond by asking how many Bolivians I know. How many Bolivians do you know? Does it matter? How about actually responding to my post.

 

[Delirious]

since jackthehat seems to be right and were all wrong...we should believe in him because we seem to be all stupid spoiled little americans while the british have it all right

thats the tone of voice im getting from him anyway

 

[Solid Fro]

I know why jackthehat doesn't want to answer the question. It will make him realize that he is a hypocrite.

Every single component that makes up jackthehat's computer is made in Taiwan.

 

[JacktheHat]

Or maybe it's not relevant to this thread?


danoff- I asked you if you knew what was going on in Bolivia, not if you knew any Bolivians. I was giving an example, a current example, of these supposedly happy 'people' you keep referring to. Check the news, see if they're content.


Chicago Tribune
Narco News (Mexico)
News 24 (South Africa)

And here's something from Venezuala regarding the involvement of the US Government.

Hands off Venezuela

 

[Delirious]

I like your title, Viper Zero

you dont see us bashing all the people here on GTP who live in europe, so what gives you the right to bash us? i still say your tone of voice makes it sound like we british folk are so much better than you american scum and you all need to be more like us because we are right and you guys are wrong; do things our way since we are always right in every single thing we do

i respect that you live in great britian, now respect us that we live in the united states

peace?

 

[Swift]

Or maybe it's not relevant to this thread?

If using products from the people supposedly exploited by America is not is not relevant to the thread, then don't use it as a point that America is exploiting other countries. It's that simple. You can't have it both ways.

 

[JacktheHat]

If using products from the people supposedly exploited by America is not is not relevant to the thread, then don't use it as a point that America is exploiting other countries. It's that simple. You can't have it both ways.

What? You asked a question I gave an answer and was then forced to justify my answer. Whether or not I, personally, use products involved in the exploitation of others is irrelevant because I am not the subject of this debate.

Understand now?

 

[Swift]

What? You asked a question I gave an answer and was then forced to justify my answer. Whether or not I, personally, use products involved in the exploitation of others is irrelevant because I am not the subject of this debate.

Understand now?

No that's not it. You have gone out of your way to say that people in those countries being exploited by America and other countries is wrong. So, if you use any of the products that comes from those exploited, oppressed people then you're a hypocrite.

Do YOU understand now?

 

[JacktheHat]

No that's not it. You have gone out of your way to say that people in those countries being exploited by America and other countries is wrong. So, if you use any of the products that comes from those exploited, oppressed people then you're a hypocrite.

Do YOU understand now?

Oh, I'm a nation now am I? Population one...

You're trying to personalise a debate about countries. Why?

Maybe you take what I say personally but that reflects more on you than it does me.

 

[Swift]

Oh, I'm a nation now am I? Population one...

You're trying to personalise a debate about countries. Why?

Maybe you take what I say personally but that reflects more on you than it does me.

This is really good. You said before that Britain and America both exploit other nations people and resources. You've also stated this is wrong. So, if you use products from these exploited people, what does that make you?

 

[JacktheHat]

This is really good. You said before that Britain and America both exploit other nations people and resources. You've also stated this is wrong. So, if you use products from these exploited people, what does that make you?

I will happily debate this with you in the correct place, which is not in a thread about America, or in a response to your question about the US flag.

I'd prefer not to fall foul of the mods.

 

[Swift]

I will happily debate this with you in the correct place, which is not in a thread about America, or in a response to your question about the US flag.

I'd prefer not to fall foul of the mods.

Heh heh, ok. Sure....

 

[Danoff]

Chicago Tribune
Narco News (Mexico)
News 24 (South Africa)

And here's something from Venezuala regarding the involvement of the US Government.

Hands off Venezuela

They want to nationalize the oil industry?? Idiots.

Ok, the people rioting in bolivia aren't happy, they're stupid. They aren't happy because they see an opportunity for their government to steal money from an oil company. It's immoral, but I suppose that doesn't concern them.

The people in the riots are criminals advocating theft and should be locked up.

You still haven't refuted my argument. If people are sitting in a third world country starving and a company shows up offering them wages for their labor - and they voluntarily choose to work for that company, how does that hurt (or exploit) them?

 

[JacktheHat]

They want to nationalize the oil industry?? Idiots.

Ok, the people rioting in bolivia aren't happy, they're stupid. They aren't happy because they see an opportunity for their government to steal money from an oil company. It's immoral, but I suppose that doesn't concern them.

The people in the riots are criminals advocating theft and should be locked up.

You still haven't refuted my argument. If people are sitting in a third world country starving and a company shows up offering them wages for their labor - and they voluntarily choose to work for that company, how does that hurt (or exploit) them?

Who was starving before these companies appeared? People used to own land and barter products. Granted this is a simplification and not everybody would have been landowners but work would have been available.

These countries are rich with natural resources, they may not have had the technology to mass produce but they were self-sufficient.

It may sound uncivilised to you but it could be considered that they had a better value of life before the intervention of industry.

 

[///M-Spec]

Who was starving before these companies appeared? People used to own land and barter products. Granted this is a simplification and not everybody would have been landowners but work would have been available.

These countries are rich with natural resources, they may not have had the technology to mass produce but they were self-sufficient.

It may sound uncivilised to you but it could be considered that they had a better value of life before the intervention of industry.

If things were better before the 'intervention of industry', then why would anyone in those countries take a job in industry? If factory jobs were so much worse than what they had before factories came along, then those places should be empty.

But yet, they weren't. Why?


M

 

[JacktheHat]

If things were better before the 'intervention of industry', then why would anyone in those countries take a job in industry? If factory jobs were so much worse than what they had before factories came along, then those places should be empty.

But yet, they weren't. Why?


M

Note that I used past tense. When land rights were taken away they could no longer sustain themselves (and, yes, that is a generalisation).

 

[///M-Spec]

Note that I used past tense. When land rights were taken away they could no longer sustain themselves (and, yes, that is a generalisation).

Would you then make a generalisation that all industry takes land from people and force them to work in factories? Or are there other factors at play which makes blaming "industry" marginally useful.

I find most generalisations at best, not very useful. At worst, dangerous.


M

 

[Swift]

Wow Jack. You do like to make broad sweeping generalizations.

I'm guessing the computer you're using wasn't made by your neighbor and you traded him a pig or cow for it. So, how is indutrialization horrible again?

 

[JacktheHat]

Would you then make a generalisation that all industry takes land from people and force them to work in factories? Or are there other factors at play which makes blaming "industry" marginally useful.

I find most generalisations at best, not very useful. At worst, dangerous.


M

I'm not saying industry has no use. I am saying that it has it's downsides though. In every industrial revolution there have been 'winners' and 'losers', otherwise we wouldn't have the need for trade unions to protect the rights of workers.
What I was trying to point out is that it is not fair, ethical, or morally justifiable to take advantage of people who are not as protected as ourselves purely to make a profit. I'm not saying that industry should not occur in these places just that companies should have corporate responsibility.

 

[JacktheHat]

Wow Jack. You do like to make broad sweeping generalizations.

And so do you, the difference being that mine are fact-based.

I'm guessing the computer you're using wasn't made by your neighbor and you traded him a pig or cow for it. So, how is indutrialization horrible again?

When did I say industry was horrible?

 

[Swift]

And so do you, the difference being that mine are fact-based.



When did I say industry was horrible?

In this thread I've made on generelaztion. IF you don't like the american flag in America split.

 

[///M-Spec]

I'm not saying industry has no use. I am saying that it has it's downsides though. In every industrial revolution there have been 'winners' and 'losers', otherwise we wouldn't have the need for trade unions to protect the rights of workers.

Fair enough. Except I would say a worker doesn't have any additional rights (other than rights granted as citizen of the country he/she lives in) unless it is specified in his/her employment contract.

What I was trying to point out is that it is not fair, ethical, or morally justifiable to take advantage of people who are not as protected as ourselves purely to make a profit.

Hazy area. It would not be morally justifiable, just for example, to charge a man dying of a gunshot wound outside a hospital before he is admitted.

But why is offering someone a lousy job automatically morally unjustifiable?

Would that mean offering someone who is looking for transportation a cheap, crappy car to buy is also morally unjustifiable? If that is the case, then we need to lock up some executives at Daewoo. (joke, people)

I'm not saying that industry should not occur in these places just that companies should have corporate responsibility.

I agree with this statement in essense, but the harder question is what kind of responsibility should a corporation have?


M